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[Patch 3.01: Season 3] General Discussion - Page 166

Forum Index > LoL General
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NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 11 2013 21:53 GMT
#3301
On February 12 2013 06:16 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=612314&d=1360611420

Orgasmic

Makes me think of middle aged Mako with a future industries car.


I just watched the series this weekend! :D yeye Asami.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 21:56:44
February 11 2013 21:55 GMT
#3302
On February 12 2013 06:48 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 06:37 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't really think Jayce is as strong as you guys think he is. He just doesn't have a gamechanging ult in his kit. He's also kinda clunky to use. I like my champions to have good animations and to be able to auto after a spell or move a bit. He can't do that.

Jayce has a 45% win rate overall and in my experience isn't the best.


He's pretty damn good in ranked 5s if you have a proper teamcomp. We had AP Kog, jayce, corki, lulu xin. If the other team can never fight you, you'll never take damage and new tear => rylais is amazing on AP kog. It takes a while to ramp up but if you get to midgame alright, it's very difficult to push against and very difficult to defend against as well.


AP Kog's biggest issue right now is his mana problem. Even with fully stacked tear/seraph plus blue buff you run oom pretty fast in a long siege. Personally I think Lux is a far more reliable AP mid to run in a poke comp. Xerath can be ok too. And honestly I think people who wanna run poke comps should experiment with Ziggs some. Ziggs has good poke and two spells that are great for disengaging/discouraging straight fights.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 21:59:36
February 11 2013 21:59 GMT
#3303
Don't talk about Ziggs, little fucker's a pain to deal with. :<

On February 12 2013 06:37 obesechicken13 wrote:
I don't really think Jayce is as strong as you guys think he is. He just doesn't have a gamechanging ult in his kit. He's also kinda clunky to use. I like my champions to have good animations and to be able to auto after a spell or move a bit. He can't do that.

Jayce has a 45% win rate overall and in my experience isn't the best.

Yeah, and Karma always had a very low winrate while being a monster in the right hands/comp.
Jayce was faceroll at release and even after the first few nerfs. Like, Darius/Zed/Kha'Zix level faceroll. You didn't even need to think about your stuff, just "use" (spam) it and you'd win lane and be a monster in fights. A lot of people picked up "the OP" for that, and once he got nerfed they failed, and those who refused to adapt and learn to play him failed too. Eve and Diana took a sharp turn down in their winrates after their nerfs too because they went from faceroll to "you actually have to use your brain sometimes".

Winrates have to be put in context and sometimes they tell less about the champ and more about its players.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 22:04:49
February 11 2013 22:02 GMT
#3304
On February 12 2013 06:59 Alaric wrote:
Winrates have to be put in context and sometimes they tell less about the champ and more about its players.

I agree, but you can use different arguments all the time. Eg: the only reason Karma even has a 40% win rate is because the people who play her are really good with her. Or the people who play Karma have all lost 350 elo on average so now they've stabilized to a 50% win rate. I've never seen Karma in a pro game.

Win rates are objective.

If there is a way to carry hard as Jayce consistently, I just don't know it.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 11 2013 22:11 GMT
#3305
Rushing tear, or especially manamune means that your poke is reliant on your opponents lacking armour until you build LW (not limited to Jayce, though Kha'Zix bypasses it by doing partly magical damage with evolved W), so if you fall behind/fail to transition early enough in your build, your power curve takes a hit. I think that's what happened in LCS, notably when EG played him: he built a BC rather than a LW, while his opponents already had armour, so he never really got around to bully them out with his EQ poke, or at least drop them low enough to be able to burst them.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 22:18:45
February 11 2013 22:18 GMT
#3306
On February 12 2013 07:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 06:59 Alaric wrote:
Winrates have to be put in context and sometimes they tell less about the champ and more about its players.

I agree, but you can use different arguments all the time. Eg: the only reason Karma even has a 40% win rate is because the people who play her are really good with her. Or the people who play Karma have all lost 350 elo on average so now they've stabilized to a 50% win rate. I've never seen Karma in a pro game.

Win rates are objective.

If there is a way to carry hard as Jayce consistently, I just don't know it.

Hotshot trolled with Karma after one of Marcou's decisions a while back. I think it was stacking groups cuz they were worried TSM and Epik were gonna collude in a tourney. Forget which one. But she has been in a pro game.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Wrag
Profile Joined February 2012
France124 Posts
February 11 2013 22:37 GMT
#3307
On February 12 2013 07:18 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 07:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
On February 12 2013 06:59 Alaric wrote:
Winrates have to be put in context and sometimes they tell less about the champ and more about its players.

I agree, but you can use different arguments all the time. Eg: the only reason Karma even has a 40% win rate is because the people who play her are really good with her. Or the people who play Karma have all lost 350 elo on average so now they've stabilized to a 50% win rate. I've never seen Karma in a pro game.

Win rates are objective.

If there is a way to carry hard as Jayce consistently, I just don't know it.

Hotshot trolled with Karma after one of Marcou's decisions a while back. I think it was stacking groups cuz they were worried TSM and Epik were gonna collude in a tourney. Forget which one. But she has been in a pro game.


Well i'm not sure that counts. But wasn't karma run in some shield comp in korea with urgot iirc. Think it was mid karma too.
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
February 11 2013 22:50 GMT
#3308
Wingsofdeath with 35k viewers.

:/
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
February 11 2013 22:53 GMT
#3309
On February 12 2013 07:37 Wrag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 07:18 Two_DoWn wrote:
On February 12 2013 07:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
On February 12 2013 06:59 Alaric wrote:
Winrates have to be put in context and sometimes they tell less about the champ and more about its players.

I agree, but you can use different arguments all the time. Eg: the only reason Karma even has a 40% win rate is because the people who play her are really good with her. Or the people who play Karma have all lost 350 elo on average so now they've stabilized to a 50% win rate. I've never seen Karma in a pro game.

Win rates are objective.

If there is a way to carry hard as Jayce consistently, I just don't know it.

Hotshot trolled with Karma after one of Marcou's decisions a while back. I think it was stacking groups cuz they were worried TSM and Epik were gonna collude in a tourney. Forget which one. But she has been in a pro game.


Well i'm not sure that counts. But wasn't karma run in some shield comp in korea with urgot iirc. Think it was mid karma too.


I dunno about a Korean team but Karma has been seen in three tournaments that were charted by Leaguepedia. All three games she was used in were losses though. http://leaguepedia.com/wiki/Karma_-_The_Enlightened_One

She got banned twice at IPL5 too lol. I remember SGS running her in a teamcomp at that tournament actually.
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
February 11 2013 22:56 GMT
#3310
On February 12 2013 06:52 Requizen wrote:
ADC Jayce is kind of interesting in lane. As a straight ADC, he kinda sucks because of the range issue, but as a kill lane combo with Leona, Ali, or Taric, he can dump all over other ADs and just man-mode lane. But at end game, you don't have a proper ADC, since outside of his poke and after his W has been spent, he can't really stand up to most of the standard ones.

But do you really need a proper ADC ?

Also Voyboy used Karma top in some game not very long ago iirc. But he lost that game I think...
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
February 11 2013 22:58 GMT
#3311
On February 12 2013 07:56 -Zoda- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 06:52 Requizen wrote:
ADC Jayce is kind of interesting in lane. As a straight ADC, he kinda sucks because of the range issue, but as a kill lane combo with Leona, Ali, or Taric, he can dump all over other ADs and just man-mode lane. But at end game, you don't have a proper ADC, since outside of his poke and after his W has been spent, he can't really stand up to most of the standard ones.

But do you really need a proper ADC ?

Also Voyboy used Karma top in some game not very long ago iirc. But he lost that game I think...

I think Monte and them tried some ADC-less team comps during testing one week, but I don't know the results. I'd imagine it would be fine if you had a strong late game AP to make up for it or win before the point where ADCs are "necessary".
It's your boy Guzma!
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
February 11 2013 23:14 GMT
#3312
On February 12 2013 07:58 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 07:56 -Zoda- wrote:
On February 12 2013 06:52 Requizen wrote:
ADC Jayce is kind of interesting in lane. As a straight ADC, he kinda sucks because of the range issue, but as a kill lane combo with Leona, Ali, or Taric, he can dump all over other ADs and just man-mode lane. But at end game, you don't have a proper ADC, since outside of his poke and after his W has been spent, he can't really stand up to most of the standard ones.

But do you really need a proper ADC ?

Also Voyboy used Karma top in some game not very long ago iirc. But he lost that game I think...

I think Monte and them tried some ADC-less team comps during testing one week, but I don't know the results. I'd imagine it would be fine if you had a strong late game AP to make up for it or win before the point where ADCs are "necessary".


The problem we ran into was that our kill lanes typically lost. We never got around to testing pseudo-ADCs like Jayce, tanky Graves, etc. I've done some of those tests on my own time with decent results, but nothing conclusive (most of the tests were corrupted by all other lanes/the jungle failing, so I don't have any meaningful data about Jayce mid-late game performance in that role).
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 23:22:05
February 11 2013 23:20 GMT
#3313
I'd expect jayce to run into a lot of the same problems that draven ends up running into (ultimately being short-range autoattack with no dashes for compensation). They also have pretty similar power curves, in my experience (when running jayce as ADC). Jayce has a significant potential to just completely dunk in bot lane, and I think he can end up working out as an ADC just by virtue of trashing the opposing adc so hard that jayce's late game issues never come into play. He'd probably be really good in a 2v1 as well.

edit: jayce-lulu seems like a really scary lane.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
February 11 2013 23:24 GMT
#3314
On February 12 2013 07:50 schmutttt wrote:
Wingsofdeath with 35k viewers.

:/

I was thinking "hmm, Xspecial's stream is being wonky...I guess I can go laugh at him whine."

His explanation of how he plays Vi made me want to yell at my monitor.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
February 11 2013 23:25 GMT
#3315
what keeps jayce relevant late game is that he doesnt need to build attack speed. a Q then a W in cannon form can just insta kill an ad.
I come in for the scraps
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 11 2013 23:30 GMT
#3316
On February 12 2013 08:24 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2013 07:50 schmutttt wrote:
Wingsofdeath with 35k viewers.

:/

I was thinking "hmm, Xspecial's stream is being wonky...I guess I can go laugh at him whine."

His explanation of how he plays Vi made me want to yell at my monitor.

What was he saying?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Mensol
Profile Joined September 2012
14536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 23:32:05
February 11 2013 23:31 GMT
#3317
Irelia, Zed and Rammus are 50% off.

blood moon shen, blood moon akali and ninja rammus 50% off too.
If you don't know what the fuck you are doing, how are your enemies supposed to know what the fuck you are doing. - imaqtpie on NA teams at Worlds.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-11 23:33:26
February 11 2013 23:32 GMT
#3318
I just played a game with a Cho who built Zephyr, Nashor's Tooth and attack speed boots, and did nothing all game but push down towers. Guy was a dick but it won us the game pretty quickly and was very hilarious.

He could just walk up to a tower and kill it before it killed him.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Shotcoder
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2316 Posts
February 11 2013 23:51 GMT
#3319
Nancy Peloseii(Sp?) was using karma top back when he was still on a team with PhantomLord. It's was coming up in solo queue games quit a lot at that ELO when he started doing it and now my buddy has been running it in our ranked 5s and it's stupid good with hyper carry adcs.

So far I've seen in in game Wings has played mid, Nancy has played, Voyboy has done it a few times. It's quite viable but I still think it's a niche pick.
Shotcoder - C+ BW Terran, Gold LoL(ADC Main)
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
February 11 2013 23:53 GMT
#3320
On February 12 2013 08:25 VayneAuthority wrote:
what keeps jayce relevant late game is that he doesnt need to build attack speed. a Q then a W in cannon form can just insta kill an ad.

I remember a game where smash had an IE plus some other items, killed a morg before she could ult or zhonya's.
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