Lately there have been a few requests in the NA Practice Group thread for replay analysis. I enjoy doing these and giving a running commentary, as it is a form of wish fulfillment for me, as I decided to go to grad school instead of getting into casting for League. So, in the hopes of making teamliquid into better players in general, let's begin!
Here are the ground rules:
1) I will probably say things that come off as insulting. This is not because I don't like you, it's because I'm an insensitive, elitist, washed-up jerk--however, as a general rule, I don't say these things unless they are true.
2) I love doing this, but I am busy with becoming a doctor in clinical psychology, macking teh honeys, and generally being 25. I probably can't do more than one a day or a couple a week depending on my schedule.
3) I'm not, by any means, an amazing player, and I don't claim to be. I'm bad--but my standard of comparison is running into CLG in normals pre-season 1, getting dominated by Nyjacky in ranked 5s, having once been top 200 in NA, and being friends with a bunch of strong plat/diamond players. I'm not trying to be modest when I say that I'm not good, but just keep in mind that my reference point for both you and me is in the nosebleeds.
4) With that in mind, I welcome replays of all levels! I think it's great that you want to get better at this game! I owe everything to the people who taught me how to play by talking to me or playing with me or giving me lessons or just letting me watch them soar over people's heads and go 24-0-x bravery Kat (Locodoco, Jougen, Yiruru, Smash, Chauster, Dyrus, Milo, Navi, Gandhi, Soniv, Roffles, Neo, Uta, and many, many others that I can't remember off the top of my head). I also learned a lot from playing with TL in the infancy stages of this forum, back when we were just THE BIGGEST THREAD ON TL gggggggggggggggg so shoutout to all the TL players, good and bad, who have gamed with me and witnessed a real 5HITCOMBO bipolar rage moment.
5) That being said, I will sometimes stop in the middle of a replay if I think that there's not much instructional value in it. Sometimes their Draven will go 10-0 in the first 6 minutes of the game, and there's not much you can learn about getting 2-shot after that point.
Anyway, let's get started analyzing! Post away!
Please include your runes and masteries and a short synopsis of the game and anything you want looked at in particular with a link to your replay in LOLReplay .
So I've been in this situation may times before, supporting for a bad ADC. What things otherwise could I improve on (Other than build, I know I didn't have sightstone and its important)
ok Corvette I will do it no idea why because I should go to bed and im sick but I always like to do those, will edit it in later. Just one thing upinfront: I will mention your mistakes I will completly (mostly) ignore the mistakes of the teammates/enemy so I sometimes tell that you did a mistake even though it worked because of your information when you made the judgement.
I guess you play Janna, cause its uploaded from jannas pov?
Edit: that is not spectator replay, which makes that really really hard and the first time I started it took a year to load and was hella bugged Yeah that is unwatchable for me sorry, might be a bug on my side or with the replay, maybe its better I should really go to bed
I'm probably going to write a lot of stuff here such as skill levels, and my own comments, etc. so I wanna put it into spoilers. Pregame information/context: + Show Spoiler +
This is a tourney game for my school, consequently I'd like your comments for all the people on my team (though it might be a lot to ask really). I'm the Olaf, and of course my friends are on my team. I chose this replay we beat this team 2-1 but now in the finals we have to face them again and this is the game we lost. Last season I peaked just above 1700, my jungler peaked middle 1600s, my mid peaked 1697, the ADC made 1500 and the support peaked in mid-1600s as well (I feel this may be relevant due to the elo of the people we played against). As for their team, the ADC/Support duo were 1700/1500 though they didn't play like it (imoimo), their mid is 1650 atm, top something silver and jungler 1900 though now he's 2k.
As we were most threatened by their jungler we opted to ban his two strongest junglers, Shaco and Amumu. His third (and only remaining) jungler is Maokai, who we left open here because we wanted to either take it from him or play Lee against it, however they banned Lee and we ended up fping Blitz so it was probably a mistake to just let him have a champ he was strong on. Bans: Shaco/Lee (perhaps targeting our jangler) Amumu/Vlad (targeting our mid in case this doesn't make sense l0l) Shen/Zyra
Picks: Blitz/Mao Leona Graves Cho/Ez WW Olaf Morg/Ahri
Rationale: As mentioned we banned his junglers who are also coincidentally champions that tend to give us problems. Our ADC plays mainly Ezreal and Graves with some Caitlyn, so we knew we could take Ez or Graves along with Blitz which our support used to main, so when Blitz was left open we fped him. They then picked Mao (his only jungler remaining so that makes sense) and Leona to counter Blitz. We got Cho and Graves for aoe/teamfighting and because Cho is an ambiguous pick since both my jungler and I play Cho. Graves also should go well with Blitz for the in lane burst off of grabs. They grabbed Ez/WW so I knew it was WW top. For my pick I got Olaf and my mid took Morg as a pretty safe mid who can farm against pretty much anything. I picked Olaf because I recognized the Maokai + WW combination as something that I ran into something a lot a long time ago when WW top was actually popular and wanted to be able to trololol away from the inevitable level 6 gank. However they then picked Ahri which is good against both of our solos and in retrospect perhaps Olaf wasn't such a great pick because I had trouble catching their carries.
My game analysis/questions. This section will be mostly from my point of view as I know what I was thinking but not necessarily what my teammates were thinking. + Show Spoiler +
0:00 - As a team we generally don't like invading as much but our level 1 plan is virtually always to ward their wraiths, so we proceed to do that. However we definitely didn't move out of fountain quickly enough. I opted for a boots 3 start in case we got a catch at their wraiths/Mao level 3 ganked top. 0:55 - Sure enough we found Ahri at their wraiths but failed to capitalize burning both Blitz's flash and hers. Morg was trying to bait out Ahri's juke by just autoing her but probably should have just thrown the binding as if it had landed Ahri would be 100% dead. Nevertheless we get our ward down and they counterward it and we run down to our red to check for a potential counterinvade. 2:16 - WW gets to lane and I note that he must have warded the river due to his starting items. 3:00 - As Cho goes for the invade on Mao's red I get in position to prevent WW from going to assist. Should I have just gone to his red? In the end I don't feel like this invade was worth it as although Mao had to back Cho got nearly nothing out of it and had to walk all the way back to our jungle setting him back. 3:14 - I get the hell out of his tri cause he has exhaust ignite 4:20 - Mao comes in to gank top and we turn it. However Mao gets out. For my first back I got a flask cause feel that playing against WW is really playing against his mana bar early so I wanted to be able to still be in lane for when he was oom so I could shove/kill. 7:30 - We're both about half health, I have ignite and he has no summoners. I opted to play it safe here but in retrospect I feel like having ult I could have just ignited him and gone for the kill. Meanwhile at dragon we have a miscommunication and lose a fight resulting in them getting drag. 10:25 - Our ward spots Mao heading top, Cho looks for the countergank. This is a pretty big play here. 11:14 - Cho misplaced his rupture slightly and I ran away as I was low and my abilities were on cd. However I didn't take into account Cho's feast and further misplayed by tunneling on Mao since he was closer instead of going for my axe to hopefully snipe WW with a long range undertow or else better damage Mao. Our ward spots Ahri heading top but Morg wanted to fight anyway so we stayed. 11:30 - Morg flashes over the wall and doesn't shield herself while ulting only WW then Ahri cleans us up. This is what really started setting us back I think. However it's important to note at this point bot lane is so ridiculously in our favor we're only behind 1k despite being down 4 kills and a drag. 14:50 - I come down for a dragon play but both of us back off. I was really scared because Ahri was so big, but should we have just forced the issue 5v4? The fact that all I did was push mid a bit and then go back top really let WW get his cs back up. 16:20 - Fight at drag, they get it but we trade 1 + top turret for it. 18:00 - We probably should be grouped now shoving mid tbh 20:30 - Pick on Mao but we backed off the inner turret since we were low and Ez was full. 23:30 - Fight at their inner turret. Morg did not shield herself when she went in then we all eat a billion damage from Maokai ult and Ahri's spells and we lose the fight despite getting their turret. 25:30 - Pings at baron. Since there were 2 bot (did not know Mao was backing) I feel like we could have just taken it. Also Morg gets a giants belt for some reason (??? lol) Then at this point we start wasting a whole lot of time mid despite the fact that it's already all the way pushed. I think we were afraid of Mao/Ahri at that point but I think we should have just started shoving out the other lanes as 5 instead of letting them farm for free. The whole idea here was that we could win a fight so we wanted to get a hook but it just never happened. 30:20 - Morg ulted only Leona and we weren't in position 32:30 - Fight in their top jungle. Since all Ez had was a triforce I wanted to zone Ahri out but didn't do a good enough job. Also no one prevented WW from destroying Graves so he dies (definite misplay with how much interruption we have thru Morg shield/Cho qw/Blitz qer). WIth 4 alive and them losing Mao we make a baron play. We get interrupted but kill 2 and back. After this point I felt like WW was suddenly too tanky and managed to get on Graves every fight, Maokai was unkillable and I couldn't catch Ez nor Ahri. We kept fighting and sometimes won fights but they took an inhib off of Ez quadra and we slowly lost by attrition.
General questions/notes - I maxed Q first for waveclear and reliability, but should I be maxing E first in the WW lane? - We wasted a LOT of time just wandering out in mid lane for no reason while WW/Ezreal caught up in farm. This along with the Ahri triple kill probably is what killed us in the end. - I've stopped doing my own analysis past the Ezreal quadra kill because I feel at that point the game was pretty much over and it's a lot of the same thing happening in the same way. Nevertheless it was a really close and intense game.
On January 30 2013 10:05 57 Corvette wrote: So I've been in this situation may times before, supporting for a bad ADC. What things otherwise could I improve on (Other than build, I know I didn't have sightstone and its important)
I'm probably going to write a lot of stuff here such as skill levels, and my own comments, etc. so I wanna put it into spoilers. Pregame information/context: + Show Spoiler +
This is a tourney game for my school, consequently I'd like your comments for all the people on my team (though it might be a lot to ask really). I'm the Olaf, and of course my friends are on my team. I chose this replay we beat this team 2-1 but now in the finals we have to face them again and this is the game we lost. Last season I peaked just above 1700, my jungler peaked middle 1600s, my mid peaked 1697, the ADC made 1500 and the support peaked in mid-1600s as well (I feel this may be relevant due to the elo of the people we played against). As for their team, the ADC/Support duo were 1700/1500 though they didn't play like it (imoimo), their mid is 1650 atm, top something silver and jungler 1900 though now he's 2k.
As we were most threatened by their jungler we opted to ban his two strongest junglers, Shaco and Amumu. His third (and only remaining) jungler is Maokai, who we left open here because we wanted to either take it from him or play Lee against it, however they banned Lee and we ended up fping Blitz so it was probably a mistake to just let him have a champ he was strong on. Bans: Shaco/Lee (perhaps targeting our jangler) Amumu/Vlad (targeting our mid in case this doesn't make sense l0l) Shen/Zyra
Picks: Blitz/Mao Leona Graves Cho/Ez WW Olaf Morg/Ahri
Rationale: As mentioned we banned his junglers who are also coincidentally champions that tend to give us problems. Our ADC plays mainly Ezreal and Graves with some Caitlyn, so we knew we could take Ez or Graves along with Blitz which our support used to main, so when Blitz was left open we fped him. They then picked Mao (his only jungler remaining so that makes sense) and Leona to counter Blitz. We got Cho and Graves for aoe/teamfighting and because Cho is an ambiguous pick since both my jungler and I play Cho. Graves also should go well with Blitz for the in lane burst off of grabs. They grabbed Ez/WW so I knew it was WW top. For my pick I got Olaf and my mid took Morg as a pretty safe mid who can farm against pretty much anything. I picked Olaf because I recognized the Maokai + WW combination as something that I ran into something a lot a long time ago when WW top was actually popular and wanted to be able to trololol away from the inevitable level 6 gank. However they then picked Ahri which is good against both of our solos and in retrospect perhaps Olaf wasn't such a great pick because I had trouble catching their carries.
My game analysis/questions. This section will be mostly from my point of view as I know what I was thinking but not necessarily what my teammates were thinking. + Show Spoiler +
0:00 - As a team we generally don't like invading as much but our level 1 plan is virtually always to ward their wraiths, so we proceed to do that. However we definitely didn't move out of fountain quickly enough. I opted for a boots 3 start in case we got a catch at their wraiths/Mao level 3 ganked top. 0:55 - Sure enough we found Ahri at their wraiths but failed to capitalize burning both Blitz's flash and hers. Morg was trying to bait out Ahri's juke by just autoing her but probably should have just thrown the binding as if it had landed Ahri would be 100% dead. Nevertheless we get our ward down and they counterward it and we run down to our red to check for a potential counterinvade. 2:16 - WW gets to lane and I note that he must have warded the river due to his starting items. 3:00 - As Cho goes for the invade on Mao's red I get in position to prevent WW from going to assist. Should I have just gone to his red? In the end I don't feel like this invade was worth it as although Mao had to back Cho got nearly nothing out of it and had to walk all the way back to our jungle setting him back. 3:14 - I get the hell out of his tri cause he has exhaust ignite 4:20 - Mao comes in to gank top and we turn it. However Mao gets out. For my first back I got a flask cause feel that playing against WW is really playing against his mana bar early so I wanted to be able to still be in lane for when he was oom so I could shove/kill. 7:30 - We're both about half health, I have ignite and he has no summoners. I opted to play it safe here but in retrospect I feel like having ult I could have just ignited him and gone for the kill. Meanwhile at dragon we have a miscommunication and lose a fight resulting in them getting drag. 10:25 - Our ward spots Mao heading top, Cho looks for the countergank. This is a pretty big play here. 11:14 - Cho misplaced his rupture slightly and I ran away as I was low and my abilities were on cd. However I didn't take into account Cho's feast and further misplayed by tunneling on Mao since he was closer instead of going for my axe to hopefully snipe WW with a long range undertow or else better damage Mao. Our ward spots Ahri heading top but Morg wanted to fight anyway so we stayed. 11:30 - Morg flashes over the wall and doesn't shield herself while ulting only WW then Ahri cleans us up. This is what really started setting us back I think. However it's important to note at this point bot lane is so ridiculously in our favor we're only behind 1k despite being down 4 kills and a drag. 14:50 - I come down for a dragon play but both of us back off. I was really scared because Ahri was so big, but should we have just forced the issue 5v4? The fact that all I did was push mid a bit and then go back top really let WW get his cs back up. 16:20 - Fight at drag, they get it but we trade 1 + top turret for it. 18:00 - We probably should be grouped now shoving mid tbh 20:30 - Pick on Mao but we backed off the inner turret since we were low and Ez was full. 23:30 - Fight at their inner turret. Morg did not shield herself when she went in then we all eat a billion damage from Maokai ult and Ahri's spells and we lose the fight despite getting their turret. 25:30 - Pings at baron. Since there were 2 bot (did not know Mao was backing) I feel like we could have just taken it. Also Morg gets a giants belt for some reason (??? lol) Then at this point we start wasting a whole lot of time mid despite the fact that it's already all the way pushed. I think we were afraid of Mao/Ahri at that point but I think we should have just started shoving out the other lanes as 5 instead of letting them farm for free. The whole idea here was that we could win a fight so we wanted to get a hook but it just never happened. 30:20 - Morg ulted only Leona and we weren't in position 32:30 - Fight in their top jungle. Since all Ez had was a triforce I wanted to zone Ahri out but didn't do a good enough job. Also no one prevented WW from destroying Graves so he dies (definite misplay with how much interruption we have thru Morg shield/Cho qw/Blitz qer). WIth 4 alive and them losing Mao we make a baron play. We get interrupted but kill 2 and back. After this point I felt like WW was suddenly too tanky and managed to get on Graves every fight, Maokai was unkillable and I couldn't catch Ez nor Ahri. We kept fighting and sometimes won fights but they took an inhib off of Ez quadra and we slowly lost by attrition.
General questions/notes - I maxed Q first for waveclear and reliability, but should I be maxing E first in the WW lane? - We wasted a LOT of time just wandering out in mid lane for no reason while WW/Ezreal caught up in farm. This along with the Ahri triple kill probably is what killed us in the end. - I've stopped doing my own analysis past the Ezreal quadra kill because I feel at that point the game was pretty much over and it's a lot of the same thing happening in the same way. Nevertheless it was a really close and intense game.
Thanks in advance for your input!
EDIT: Added a leaguereplays.com link
Okay, I'll see what I can do as far as a whole-team analysis .
0:46 - This is a case of bush anxiety by Morgana. She can't just stop moving while she's in the bush and she reveals herself before your team is ready for no reason. I think the standard opening build in solo lanes has evolved beyond boots + 3 or boots ward pot--nowadays it's either cloth 5, red pot + pots, faerie + pots, or 2 wards + infinity pots. Morgana's gonna get pushed out of lane by Ahri really easily with one pot for sustain and no mana regen, and you could lane for 10 minutes in complete safety if you started something like 2 wards + hella pots.
0:58 - Practice skillshots! That was the easiest bind and hook of all time! Blitz definitely shouldn't have flashed, either.
1:00 - Too split on the invade, work on team cohesion and sticking as a tight unit. You can spread into two groups or something like that but make sure that if you get engaged on by 4 (Ahri you saw go around the corner already) that you can fight it or safely escape.
1:30 - I think you should definitely start Chogath with a wolf -> blue start, and as blue team you should have Graves/Blitz take small golems so they hit level 2 on the first wave. The reason for Cho at blue buff is that it gives him sustain and speeds his clear time and when you take red buff it lasts longer during the times you'll be peaking in terms of early gank power (level 3/4).
2:00 - You don't need to leash him that hard, he should just chug potions. Now bot lane has missed half the first wave and Ezreal/Leona are ahead on experience, which is pretty hard for Graves/Blitz.
2:50 - As Olaf vs Warwick, you definitely just want to focus on farming. Small amounts of harass to make him waste his mana and pots is good, but your priority is getting that Giant's Belt so you can 100% ignore him and make him look dumb for being so weak. Just farm perfectly, he can't do anything to you without a gank or level 6 so you have total control of the lane until then. Bully him a bit, but not at the expense of your cs--you're the strongest bruiser in the game right now with items, so just focus on hitting your plateaus asap.
3:00 - Your Chogath goes in to counterjungle which feels like a really bad choice here. He catches Mao and forces him out but then what? No kill is really possible given the events that happened and Cho can really only take smalls. Meanwhile, you start running towards their red buff and miss the experience from a siege creep plus a bunch of small minions while giving Warwick free damage on you. Now Warwick is going to be massively ahead in levels and gold on you for no gain on your team's part. I would suggest cutting the fancy plays out of your team strategy. Just play totally standard until you guys get to the point where you understand more sophisticated tactics like counterjungling. Right now, you guys are totally owning yourselves trying to make big plays because they're just failing and all of the investment of time and missed xp/cs/time/free damage that went into it is for nothing. Personally, I time all of my risky stuff to be when there's no chance I'll miss a siege minion. Understanding siege minions is one of the most important parts of zone theory.
3:20 - Blitz should ward a bit further out against a strong cc ganker like maokai instead of trying to be economical with wards. You want one to see him coming as soon as he even comes close to dragon and one in the tribush in case he comes around the backside, at least until Morg starts warding her sides of the river.
3:50 - You are currently way overextended with no wards and very low possibility of farming. You might want to use this time to go buy wards and some pots or something, but it's hard because you tried to make that play and only have 10 cs. Warwick is going to be very happy with his lane situation and will most likely hit 6 before you.
4:20 - Sho nuff, you gettin gank3d. If I saw you pushed that hard to the tower with a start that I knew didn't have any wards I'd be camping your lane until you bought wards.
5:00 - WTF LOL THEY ARE SO BAD HAHAHAHAHA (this is why you don't chase). Now you are going to be massively ahead in lane. Damn, they just totally threw their massive advantage for no reason when they could have just taken your tower and made you miss 3 waves of xp.
5:50 - Remember that thing I said earlier about the tribush ward? Here comes Maokai into a Leona Ezreal lane.
6:00 - Your harass timing is really bad. You're tanking about 7 caster creeps and you've got no armor, the amount of damage you're taking from attacking Warwick is a lot larger and he outsustains you. Just farm here--your goal is to get too big to kill by farming and only kill this retarded ignite/exhaust Warwick when he makes a huge mistake.
6:37 - It's better than nothing, but that's not going to give you much warning that Maokai's coming. I'd have put it in the tribush and asked my Morgana to ward their wraiths. That way you can't really be surprised by any river ganks of any sort. At the same time, your Chogath is at their blue warding, which is good because you know it's going to be up soon, but he's really behind in jungle and 2 of his own camps are still up. He should focus on playing standard and just getting strong so he can be useful later instead of setting himself behind on levels to go for hail mary counterjungle plays. Also, tell Cho to get 2 points in e at the very least before maxing W.
7:20 - Case in point, Cho gets owned after setting himself back trying to make a huge play. He has to learn how to not outplay himself before he starts trying to outplay other people.
7:40 - Now your whole team is trying to save a completely dead player and it gets Blitz killed. If someone gets caught doing something retarded just cut them off before they spread the cancer to the rest of your team.
8:00 - See how one player's incredibly bad plays can give the opponents massively free advantages? The other team gets 2 kills and a dragon for free because they warded and waited for Cho to outplay his own team. Now you guys are massively behind. This is how you snowball against bad players, you just ward the rivers, farm, and play totally standard. Wait and just keep letting their weak players own their team then take objectives after they own themselves.
9:58 - Finally Blitz wards a good spot on the map. That's exactly where you need it against a ganker that can gapclose from long distances like Mao.
10:15 - Here goes Cho again, trying to make a high-risk, low-probability, low-payoff situation while he's behind already and his entire jungle is up. Worse, he's got double buffs so this kind of play might not only set him behind, but potentially set the enemy team ahead. Graves and Blitz get engaged on by Ezreal/Leona bot lane and end up trading Ezzy for Blitz, which is really good for you guys.
11:20 - This was bad because like the only way for you guys to get a kill here is to bait WW into ulting Olaf (which he is basically never going to do unless your ult is down) and Cho just sat in the bush taxing xp for a minute while you didn't even try to zone WW and just indiscriminately shoved him to tower. You should have at least let him come out and calmly controlled the wave so it sat in the middle of the lane. Maokai is there and Cho doing nothing for a full minute pays off in a retarded manner, but when WW ults you and you break it with your ult for some reason you don't all-in with Cho and no kills come of it.
11:43 - Morgana tries to make a huge, greedy towerdive play and gets Ahri a triple kill by just showing up.
-----------------------
I'm gonna stop analyzing here. Your team's main problem is that you guys think that you're going to outplay the other team by doing insanely risky stuff and you end up owning yourselves as the enemy team sits there like wtf lol ok free kills. You all need to learn how to play safe before you can start playing risky. Everyone needs to farm better, and you guys should probably look at some pro games and watch the spots that they ward and try to figure out why they ward where at the time they do, and what their coverage looks like and why. Mechanically, everyone was about as good as the other team was, so it's not a matter of skill. You guys are just outplaying yourselves too hard by doing high-risk, low-payoff, heavy-investment kinds of plays. The kinds of plays you want to make are very small ones, like zoning your lane opponent off of a siege creep or doing a timed shove of a minion wave to a tower so you can go buy right before an objective comes up or a gank timing comes. As it stands, your team doesn't understand how to play standard, so when they go to outplay it ends up working against them.
As far as champ select goes, I'll just say that Olaf is never, ever a bad pick, so don't worry about that .
The Vayne replay is for comments on my laning against a kill lane (Taric/Graves). I think i played perhaps a little too scared for a long period of time in lane, when I could have gotten more harrass in for a less favourable all in on their part.
I think I generally run a 14/13/3 mastery page on ads, with a 9 ad red, 9 mr blue, 9 armor seal, and ad quints for runes. Very standard stuff. On Vayne I might run the standard 21/9/0 but I've come to really like the defensive perks the 14/13/3 gives and it makes me feel a lot tankier when trading in lane.
So I personally don't think there's too much to learn from the Caitlyn game since the Brand was 21/2/X or something ridiculous. All fights were decided in a matter of seconds. However I do want to scrutinize my own laning mechanics, as it's one of the things I'm trying to work on at the moment. Team fighting and the like can come later, but every game starts at the lane.
Some of the things I want to really take a harder look at, for Caitlyn specifically, is harrassing in lane, trap placement, and more generally is how to stay calm in a trade/fight so I output the necessary damage without getting myself into too much trouble.
The second point comes especially hard for me at times, and I think this is very evident when I'm against a more aggressive lane, ie Blitz/Leona/Taric. I tend to play far too scared, and I zone myself a lot of the times. I think I played fairly well against the Taric/Graves lane in the second replay, but I still think I played far too passive for too long, and I think i was down 30+ cs at some point when I dont' think I really needed to be. Thresh also made a few very clutch hooks to swing the kills in my favor in the mid game.
One last thing I suppose is a general guide line on how to play from behind. I think from my first caitlyn replay you saw that I was very flustered and played very poorly after the first few grabs in lane. Support issues aside, I still think I should have been more vigilant and calm even when playing from the backfoot, but I'm really not sure how to do this.
Thanks in advance if you have the time to take a look at this 5hit <3
I am not mister 5Hit but I will do that, I can watch it will spoiler it
ok, removed the thoughts on the game and wont watch the vayne game, why do you post games like this when you are 13/1 at the end, yes you can learn stuff from that but you can learn more from games when you are far behind.
Unfortunately LoLrecorder recorded that Janna game in first person only, but I have another game I'd ask to be analyzed, mainly focusing on what to do when behind in jungle early and what to do when your team doesn't help you/respond to pings/whatever
On January 30 2013 21:01 Ente wrote: I am not mister 5Hit but I will do that, I can watch it will spoiler it
ok, removed the thoughts on the game and wont watch the vayne game, why do you post games like this when you are 13/1 at the end, yes you can learn stuff from that but you can learn more from games when you are far behind.
Ah ok, I mostly just wanted to take a look at my lane play, but I know what you mean. I'll see if I can get replays of games that weren't too one sided.
download the client thing, and make sure it's running while you're playing. One thing to note, if you're using the spec mode replay option, make sure to wait at least 3+ minutes after your game has ended before viewing the replay or it's hella buggy, and typically breaks the replay in my experience.
The Vayne replay is for comments on my laning against a kill lane (Taric/Graves). I think i played perhaps a little too scared for a long period of time in lane, when I could have gotten more harrass in for a less favourable all in on their part.
I think I generally run a 14/13/3 mastery page on ads, with a 9 ad red, 9 mr blue, 9 armor seal, and ad quints for runes. Very standard stuff. On Vayne I might run the standard 21/9/0 but I've come to really like the defensive perks the 14/13/3 gives and it makes me feel a lot tankier when trading in lane.
So I personally don't think there's too much to learn from the Caitlyn game since the Brand was 21/2/X or something ridiculous. All fights were decided in a matter of seconds. However I do want to scrutinize my own laning mechanics, as it's one of the things I'm trying to work on at the moment. Team fighting and the like can come later, but every game starts at the lane.
Some of the things I want to really take a harder look at, for Caitlyn specifically, is harrassing in lane, trap placement, and more generally is how to stay calm in a trade/fight so I output the necessary damage without getting myself into too much trouble.
The second point comes especially hard for me at times, and I think this is very evident when I'm against a more aggressive lane, ie Blitz/Leona/Taric. I tend to play far too scared, and I zone myself a lot of the times. I think I played fairly well against the Taric/Graves lane in the second replay, but I still think I played far too passive for too long, and I think i was down 30+ cs at some point when I dont' think I really needed to be. Thresh also made a few very clutch hooks to swing the kills in my favor in the mid game.
One last thing I suppose is a general guide line on how to play from behind. I think from my first caitlyn replay you saw that I was very flustered and played very poorly after the first few grabs in lane. Support issues aside, I still think I should have been more vigilant and calm even when playing from the backfoot, but I'm really not sure how to do this.
Thanks in advance if you have the time to take a look at this 5hit <3
Here we go, Caitlyn game first--I'll get to the Vayne game another time, because I love me some Vayne.
First thoughts, though--how come Barrier instead of Cleanse against Lulu/Swain? I definitely prefer Cleanse to Barrier in almost every situation, though the couple times I've tried out Barrier it has been pretty effective.
Anyway, here we go!
0:49 - The entire enemy team is out on the map covering their invade spots and you just showed up in game. This is one of the biggest mistakes I see people make because it can often lose the game. I mean, no big deal if you're just playing for fun, but if we're talking about a serious game, buy items and get out there early, especially if you have stuff you can do at lv 1 like trap lanes/river. I also don't think your opening item choice is that solid, I prefer dblade or longsword 2 pots right now, but it's just my preference.
1:40 - You definitely want to take small golems when you're blue side. Half a level advantage on your opponents when you show up in lane is huge, especially when your build has so much sustain anyway.
1:50 - Nunu is off facechecking, you probably want to be with him in case he runs into Lulu/Ezreal in the bush. If he gets focused you can put damage down on someone while he gets out or all-ins. Doing nothing when you could be doing something never good. (Edit: This is still strictly worse than taking golems lol)
2:05 - You see them in lane, you can't be surprised by them. Even though Jayce is missing, you should be near the creeps imo.
3:15 - Nice escape. I definitely don't like your choice of q over w though. WEQQQR on Cait imo. Your goal as Cait/Nunu is to establish a perimeter with traps in lane and slowly expand it towards their tower so they can't do anything about you permashoving them to tower in complete safety. W is what sets Caitlyn apart from other ADC in lane.
3:35 - You see Xin at blue and pings go down on him. Start shoving immediately so that Ezreal/Lulu have to miss creeps to help out and you're free to move about in case something happens. There's 0 gank threat right now because you know exactly where Xin is. Ezreal only has pots and Lulu for sustain right now so shoving here is good.
5:00 - You're not doing bad, but the wave isn't where you want it to be. Ideally you want it so that the tower is hitting minions and there's a lot of pressure on the opponents in terms of harass from you. Learn how to shrug off tower aggro while harassing. Right now the wave is just kind of sitting in a place where they can farm from the safety of their tower with no tower shots stealing creeps, which just makes laning slightly more risky for you with no benefit. Nunu probably needs to ward river near dragon and tribush. If Brand wards the dragon side of his river or your wraiths you can get away without warding tri.
5:39 - The wave is shoving towards you. This is bad as Nunu/Cait. You pretty much always want it to be going towards the enemy as Nunu/Cait because your goal is to just take down their tower and switch lanes to do the same to someone else. Once you've got all 3 outers down you group and use your gold advantage to pressure inner towers or objectives like dragon, assuming you haven't already taken it from the map control you're denying your opponents.
6:50 - This was really good tower harass. You should be doing this every wave. It makes it really hard for opposing ADCs to farm.
7:40 - You saw Ezreal bluepill, you should be shoving the wave and probably buying right now. Nunu's out of wards and you have enough for a bunch of small items or a BF Sword and more pots. I would probably aim for getting Dblade, Vamp Scepter, Zerks and Zeal/BF, depending on when the teamfights are going to start. You want BF for teamfights and zeal if laning is going to go on for a while.
8:40 - Nunu got knocked out of bluepill by sheepstick and didn't go to buy wards. You need to instruct him to do that right now and hold the lane at your tower until he sets up wards again.
9:30 - Okay everyone else on their team is top so you can shove again lol.
11:45 - As soon as you see Xin you should be immediately running. Don't bait if they will just kill you.
12:00 - Not running as soon as you saw Xin got Nunu killed. Cait isn't a carry that wants to fight people until she has 6 items unless she has a huge advantage over them.
12:40 - Knowing that they have to bluepill, set the lane up so that you'll lose the least amount of xp/gold and bluepill to buy items. You have enough for Zerks/Dorans/pots right now or other core items. You might skip dorans at this point.
13:10 - Greedy and your positioning is really bad here. You don't want to be in a spot where you might get creep blocked. Your range can last hit from behind the minion wave. Your support isn't near you either so it's very risky of you to do that by yourself. Still, nothing came of it.
13:48 - Thirster rush isn't bad but because it's still so early you might consider getting boots 2 and a Zeal first. Having pure damage on Caitlyn isn't as good as having pure dmg on someone like MF or Ezreal because you don't have reliable damage skills and you still lose fights with people straight up. Still, this is just a stylistic choice and I don't necessarily disagree with it--I would have just got Zerks/Zeal for the passive procs and movespeed. Also, do you see how going for that one extra wave caused you to miss a teamfight where you might have picked up some kills?
14:27 - You should be juggling dragon aggro with Trundle here because he is so low, and you definitely should have secured it before netting away. Ezreal ult or flash smite could have stolen that. Hell, flash auto could have stolen that. Even though their team is down you still should always make sure the dragon kill is secured before getting out.
15:00 - You should be autoattack spamming like a madman to get your health back up. Why buy Bloodthirster if you're not going to use it? I think this is the biggest issue with your Cait play--you're pretty good mechanically but your understanding of the reason you pick Nunu/Cait is wrong. If you just sit there and play Cait like any other ADC you're not going to be able to abuse her strengths. You should be pushing wave to their tower constantly as long as wards are up and traps are in good spots. Harass them under tower and take it down right before you get your Bloodthirster/Zeal/Zerks, and then move to a different lane to keep the pressure on. Your power curve as Caitlyn needs to be very smooth--you're not Vayne or Trist who can show up late and win every fight, and you're not MF or Draven who can all-in a lot, and you're not Graves/Ezreal who can just sit there farming and rely on pure damage output. Caitlyn is a safe, utility pick for tower push strats. You snowball early objectives into teamfights with your gold advantages. Nunu is just the best support for this because bloodboil's interaction with Cait's passive is stupid early and snowball/absolute zero keep you safe in lane. I'm gonna stop analyzing here because mechanically you are doing just fine--it's just Cait/Nunu theory you need to work on .
Unspecific question: Is it ok to post a replay that is an example of me generally not knowing how to turn a personal advantage (won late/got fed) into a team advantage?
I find it a lot easier to look at my own lane play and try to improve, but it'd be great to hear high-level feedback on how to affect the general game flow (i.e., taking the lead on directing the team to do stuff, deciding when to engage, prioritizing teamfights correctly)
I'm really bad (1200-1300) in LoL, and while some of it is related to me playing sleep-deprived too often, I still haven't figured out why I'm much better at converting leads into wins on some days than on others (beyond just plain statistical variance). But I realize that asking for that kind of advice might be too vague, so I'm not sure if a replay is the best way to learn this.
Hahahaha. Yeah, win or lose, I don't care. I'll analyze whatever you want, it's not like because you won you played well or because you lost you played badly. I can tell you what you need to work on--usually trouble with converting advantages stems from either a lack of strategic knowledge or an incorrect analysis of actually having an advantage in the first place.
Yeah but what I want to work on these days is how to help my team come back from a disadvantage. I was having all sorts of games yesterday that I could have used advice on, where even though I was doing well in my lane I wasn't winning as hard as the other lanes were, and I didn't know what I could do to stop the inevitable snowball. Today it was more like me getting hilariously fed and then goofing off till the game ended. Not super useful to comment on.
On January 30 2013 21:56 57 Corvette wrote: Unfortunately LoLrecorder recorded that Janna game in first person only, but I have another game I'd ask to be analyzed, mainly focusing on what to do when behind in jungle early and what to do when your team doesn't help you/respond to pings/whatever
0:45 - Cover invade spots! Don't ever sit in a spot like that with nobody covering invade spots. You're dead if they invade here and it gets exponentially more dangerous to check invade spots as time goes on.
1:56 - Syndra's a weak jungler, I would suggest picking a stronger one if you want to seriously gain Elo. Also, start chugging pots as soon as you take damage in jungle. Without a coordinated dmg on wolves/leash on blue here it'll be hard for you to get going, as well.
3:10 - Jax is counterjungling you and you can see that he hasn't killed the red camp by looking at the minimap. If the icon is still there and you can't see the creeps, he's still around. Very dangerous here, I would have pinged and called for a collapse immediately. When Jax shows up while you're doing doubles, you definitely can't kill him 1v1, he's higher hp than you, a level up, and he has double buffs. You're also jungle Syndra.
I don't know that there's much to learn from this game aside from play a better jungler heh. I'm gonna stop analyzing here--coming back from this is sooooooooooo much harder than it would be if you were playing a real jungler. This is demoralizing to your team and basically freelo for your enemies hahaha.
I had a game where I went 2-0 1v1 Jarvan vs Singed and then ended up screwing something up badly enough that I lost lane anyways like the super scrubs everyone QQs about. Specifically at 12 mins I attempt to trade but immediately realize that he's going to actually win and I have to blow ult and flash to escape. At this point he catches up in farm and then is able to exert huge amounts of pressure on me.
On February 04 2013 19:24 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Ahhhhh yeah I guess it borked recently and they haven't updated. When it does hopefully they can backdate it to these games...
Excuse me, thanks for explaining all the replays about cait nunu laning etc, holy moly... i just got here and its very informative thanks alot for sharing ZERG_RUSSIAN!!!!!
Didnt watch any replays yet cant get client to work just yet, just wanted to say thanks you definately improved on my general ideas.
I would like to have a game looked at but I've never used lolreplay. Would you be willing to take a recording from my stream? If not ill just get lolreplay.
On February 15 2013 18:25 Azerbaijan wrote: I would like to have a game looked at but I've never used lolreplay. Would you be willing to take a recording from my stream? If not ill just get lolreplay.
The reason I use lolreplay to analyze stuff is because I can control the map and gamespeed. Sometimes there's stuff going on outside of your immediate vision that bears noticing and I like to think my map awareness is pretty stronk.
... which I still can't get to work. I keep getting some error that my league.exe file isn't found in the replay directory which is on a totally different HD than the one my league.exe is actually on. It's like looking in the lolreplay data folder for a copy of league.exe for some reason and every time i point it back to where it's supposed to be it looks around in different places for it.
I'll figure this out in a bit.
OH OKAY GOT IT
Replays from patch 3.01.0.1 don't work. Anything after or before that I can look at. Post new games if you have them!
A few things I noticed: 1. I blew too many summoners and got nothing out of it in the lvl1 invade 2. Didn't deal with taric all-ins properly, or as well as I think I could have 3. The early jungler ganks weren't handled well 4. Not enough harrass in lane
0:30 - Good item choices and start coverage, but get into the tribush faster and just beeline there from bot. Weaving through the jungle like that is dangerous because it gives enemy team time to set up. They got a chance anyway because the rest of your team is derping off and not looking to spot invades this game or any other game they play in all probability and they will feed fbs for the rest of their league careers until they learn to do that.
1:30 - Don't run in a direction that will isolate you and don't waste flash dodging a skillshot with a taric and 3 other people behind you. Flash should be used to wallhop and bait 4 flashes in this situation--you're probably dead because you went dora mode. Dropping an explorer ward at wraiths before you go tribush can also help but that opens you up to taric getting into tribush with his team if you're the only one on your team who knows what an invade is. Luckily, even after you blow both of your summoners for no reason, they blow more summoners to compensate and taric picks up the kill.
3:30 - NEVER leave your adc like that when he's in potential stun range of a taric in a bush. It's good to ward, but taric just gained bush control over you when you walked out of lane and now it's going to be a pretty rough time until you kick him out. Luckily, your ezreal is hitting sivir like a truck with autoattacks for some reason so you can probably just shield him and all-in at some point, but just keep in mind that sivir and taric have strong level 3.
4:08 - Very nice harass. Sivir is looking very squishy here and you should just harass her down with as much burst as possible at every opportunity. That will keep her from csing very easily and it will force taric to waste his mana on heals. Cho doesn't gank warded bot lanes very well so it's fine to just shove the wave to their tower with ward coverage, too.
4:27 - Save sheepstick for Sivir, don't waste it on Taric after he's blown stun. Taric is oom here and you guys have just won lane for a while, even if Ezreal can't dodge boomerangs to save his life lol.
4:41 - When taric is oom like this you should be harassing the hell out of sivir to keep her from being in creep range. Punish her auto range and if you get engaged on by them they either don't have a stun or don't have damage because they wasted it on you.
4:50 - Gank comes, immediately run--them learning that it's warded is arguably good against Cho and they have taric who can flash stun to initiate. If your adc doesn't get the message he's retarded and you may have to sacrifice yourself to serve as his escape, but it kinda depends if you think he's any good.
5:13 - Ezreal's retarded, I wouldn't trade yourself for this idiot because you now know that he probably won't escape anyway. Nice dodges though, and they blew everything on you again which is totally exactly what you want from that situation. Somehow, your rammus hasn't ganked anywhere afaik yet but he's here to countergank and... wow, your ezreal is totally retarded and your rammus totally sucks. I would NOT play support at this elo. Then again, I don't play support at any elo.
7:00 - As soon as Taric blows stun on you and there's no followup from Sivir you should be harassing the hell out of either of them with auto. GREAT glitterlance that took like 1/3 of Sivir's hp, but don't sheepstick Taric! Save that for the damage dealer!
7:38 - Ezreal is horrible at CSing and pretty stupid so it's very dangerous to leave him, but you made the right decision to go and ward.
8:45 - VERY nice gank support, you basically made that happen.
10:14 - I think after that last gank you should have shoved wave and bought, but now it's too late as Taric is back and Sivir has full hp/mana. Ezreal is really bad so you should be constantly suggesting things to him strategy-wise because he's probably too stupid to think about it. Also, stop wasting sheepstick on taric after he's blown stun. Save it in case there's a gank in the bush or Sivir comes in.
10:54 - If it was raining soup, your Ezreal would be out in it with a fork. Holy shit, this guy is retarded and bad. I'm gonna stop my analysis here because you're playing really well and you totally nailed everything I said. I would suggest studying lane matchup dynamics a little and not supporting at this elo (lol). Otherwise, nice play from a technical standpoint, outside of a few small derps here and there.
On February 16 2013 05:30 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: ... which I still can't get to work. I keep getting some error that my league.exe file isn't found in the replay directory which is on a totally different HD than the one my league.exe is actually on. It's like looking in the lolreplay data folder for a copy of league.exe for some reason and every time i point it back to where it's supposed to be it looks around in different places for it.
I'll figure this out in a bit.
OH OKAY GOT IT
Replays from patch 3.01.0.1 don't work. Anything after or before that I can look at. Post new games if you have them!
IIRC if you repair 3.01.0.1 replays so that they use the latest version they work.
Jungling Mao. Silver IV Felt like I had everything under control early game. Camped top a lot cause I felt like I had already given mid a good advantage and bot was doing really well. Didn't really get much out of camping top; think it was a waste of time. Mao ult is awkward to use. We lost once teamfights started. Not really sure what could have been done about it.
2:10 - So far, so good. Probably chug one potion on the blue buff to keep yourself high. I like to remain at higher HP in jungle because it keeps my options open. Still, very solid opening.
3:11 - Lol their Xin failed a gank because he e'd a creep instead of Garen. Garen still blew flash though, I think he's gonna have a hard time against Xin/Kennen. You're doing well, but I'd keep chugging pots to keep yourself high, especially if you think you might gank soon. Nothing worse than getting burst down with double buffs .
4:07 - I only put one point into E on Maokai until Q is maxed. It speeds your clear up a lot and gives you a bigger slow iirc.
4:33 - Nice gank! Garen went a bit early but that was a nice cleanup. After something like that, shove the wave to the tower to deny the enemy laner, you deserve lane tax and it totally damages Kennen to lose that wave .
5:12 - Swain misplayed that but very nice gank. That's two straight. You saw Xin top and you just killed their two solo lanes so you can keep going here. I'd probably clear my entire jungle with how well your lanes are doing, but your decision to blow smite and bluepill to keep the ganks going is aggressive. After setting your lanes ahead like this I would probably start focusing on farming unless a lane is asking for a gank or hit bot with a lane gank. Your priority now is to keep ahead of Xin in jungle and set up counterganks, which you bought two wards for. So far, this is textbook.
7:30 - Save smite when you're stealing blue, you can always give yours to the lane if you have to panic smite. Lux had to laser, but no big deal, great steal.
9:00 - Garen went too early again and you probably should have went in a little earlier. If you had done that and blown your ult so it damaged Kennen a kill might have come from that. Still, it wasn't bad, you blew Kennen's flash and denied him a cannon creep wave. Pretty OP.
10:00 - Wasting time here. The decision to counterjungle is a little questionable because you're really only stealing one creep and Kennen is coming back to lane through that path. Your entire jungle is up except blue and you really want to secure that red buff asap, plus there's no gank on a fresh Kennen even if his flash is down because of the way the wave is set up. Staying here is wasting time.
11:40 - Inadvisable to fight so many times in a row with your whole jungle up. You've made enough plays, the only way for you to fall behind at this point is for Xin to make more plays than you or for you to take unnecessary risks. Lux could have got a double but she got scared, not really your fault but I don't think you had to force it.
12:11 - Your bot lane is crushing, you're ahead of their jungler, and your mid lane is winning. You should get a pink and force a dragon with the pressure they're exerting. Getting a pink on dragon here is a way to open up ganks and put pressure on bottom and if it leads to a dragon you're also indirectly helping top. Also, I think if you're going to go philo stone you should get it first instead of spirit stone or skip the philo altogether.
13:15 - This is where you are starting to fall behind. Too much time is being wasted forcing plays and walking around and standing places. None of your small camps have been touched for over 3 minutes and that's keeping you behind on levels. You need to integrate small camps into your path more at this point in the game. Usually, if I notice my entire jungle up, I make sure to take wraith/wolf before I go out to gank again, especially at this stage in the game where ganks are lower percentage because of wards.
15:xx - Okay, we finally see you take a small camp again--this is the biggest weakness in your jungling. The plays you make are strong and you have a good command of the basics/build, but you don't keep ahead in levels and carry the game as hard because you're forgetting to farm. Small camps should be your bread and butter because as you get higher, gank percentages will get lower just because people will be more aware of gank timings and won't die so easily. You're making a lot of plays but you're not insanely ahead right now because your farm is so lacking. It's been 5 minutes since you've touched a small camp! Also, when bot lane is crushing like this, I force dragons. I usually get a pink ward on my second or third bluepill to open up these opportunities. Aside from that, good job--I would work on Maokai ult, there's room for improvement there, but everything else is pretty solid. I'm gonna stop here because that's the only flaw I see in your gameplay and anything else is just variance. You're lucky, your mechanics are in place and the only thing you have to work on as far as I see is timing and strategy .
Thanks a lot. That is exactly what I needed. I feel like I know how to help my lanes win but I could never figure out why the early lead wouldn't last. I'm addicted to ganks and I forget to farm ><
Started to feel really helpless after a certain point in the game. At the beginning I was feeling pretty strong but started to lose control of the lane and the game. Was getting yelled at by team for not following Akali, but never felt that I had the opportunity. Most times, I was either forced out of lane or had to deal with a creep wave at the tower. Roaming effectively is one of the things I've yet to develop a very good feel for.
I'd really appreciate advice on how to handle situations where the other team starts to build momentum and also your thoughts on effective roaming.
in general you want to roam either when you have shoved up the wave to their turret or the enemy has backed, which akali did for the most part. the enemy jungler holding mid tends to be a giveaway as well. the ideal situation is that you have wards in both sides or in the lane to give you vision or hints as to where the enemy is going ( a ward in the middle of the lane is very useful to see enemy mid's movements, against akali a pink in the middle of the lane guarantees she has no safety so it is a useful investment). if not it is courtesy to warn your teammates, but i understand that it feels unreasonable to ping back every time the enemy goes into fog. just warding lane or sides to get a feel for when someone wants to roam should teach you lots about roaming (by example).
for that particular lane, akali will outskirmish you for the most part. the advantage that ryze has is in his w being able to prevent her from getting into or staying in melee range, used in combination with your ultimate she MUST waste her ult or flash to combo onto you especially if you have boots after you root her. in middle lane this makes akali less viable, as if you fight in the middle of the lane and q w e with ultimate and run backwards, she cannot get in range at all without you being able to run back to your tower etc. if you are afraid of her damage.
one option is to get catalyst instead of tear as a first item and trade so that she cannot free push the wave (force trades such that she has to respond i.e. if she uses her spells on creeps she will eventually get damaged to the point where she is forced to back etc. buying you more farm time and safety for your teammates) which also guarantees you more safety in lane.
lastly, having a very good feel for what the opponent can do (exactly when akali can kill you, how long it would take hecarim with ghost to reach lane / what he can do, if you can survive another gank when you just blew flash a little bit ago etc.) will allow you to play to the limit. for the last example, you had been ganked by hecarim and blew flash as a result of the gank, and then sat in lane with your flask / pots and healed up back to full with a r-combo on the incoming creepwave. however, with your flash down, you were a fairly easy pick for hecarim right afterwards. the best chances you had were either going back, playing back to the tower or to ask amumu to wait for a countergank. the last option prob wont happen in solo queue so you probably should have gone back as playing at the tower would allow akali the same control and pushing ability while not allowing you the option of getting additional wards (so that you dont have to play like a 100% pussy) and boots.
I'd really appreciate it if someone could take a look at my ad team fighting mechanics (or lackthereof as the case may be). I don't think I've won a game as ad in ranked in months lol, I pretty much only play support now, and the moment I touch ad i'm pretty much doomed to lose.
The first real 5v5 fight starts at 25:00 minutes. I think the team as a whole focused too much on amumu/zed, and let Twitch do too much free damage. I don't know if I could have gotten closer to Twitch or Yi earlier with amumu and zed so close, but since we took care of Zed so quickly maybe I could have repositioned myself with arcane shift to fight Twitch.
That fight wasn't the real reason we lost, a lot of misplays all over the place but just wanted to focus on that.
Also sorry if I'm posting a lot of these lol, I think i've submitted like 3-4 replays already. Really appreciate the effort of the people that are going through these.
both are fine. lolreplay gives you (and the person watching) a bird's eye view of everything so you can know what the optimal play in a given situation is. however, watching something from someone's streamed PoV is probably better in a vacuum to learn what you individually did wrong in a given situation because we see as you see and can judge situation by situation. while it is possible to imitiate that in lolreplay to some extent, the feeling is different.
Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. My heart is broken after this game. I know I had the potential to carry this game, but I'm not 100% sure what I messed up that caused the loss. I don't expect anyone to watch the whole thing as it's about 50 minutes long. But I'm also not sure where the key moments are either. Though I think the main throws were later in the replay.
I was a little too scared of Taric so I didn't harass as much as I could have, but I think my lane phase was really good. I was super far ahead of Twitch. I'm really not sure what the cause of the loss was. I'd just like some tips on what I could have done to carry.
On February 26 2013 15:11 RagequitBM wrote: Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. My heart is broken after this game. I know I had the potential to carry this game, but I'm not 100% sure what I messed up that caused the loss. I don't expect anyone to watch the whole thing as it's about 50 minutes long. But I'm also not sure where the key moments are either. Though I think the main throws were later in the replay.
I was a little too scared of Taric so I didn't harass as much as I could have, but I think my lane phase was really good. I was super far ahead of Twitch. I'm really not sure what the cause of the loss was. I'd just like some tips on what I could have done to carry.
the 23 and 27th minute fights seemed to be the turning points for me. their lategame outclasses yours in straight teamfighting, especially with a positional advantage (underneath their turret or as your team is running away) which they had in both those teamfights. with a lead with characters like caitlyn and malzahar, you can chip at them until they are easily divable (which they were not at the 27th minute fight when nocturne decided to aggro on them behind their turret (very bad against a ryze as to get your players into position to give damage you position such that ryze can get full aoe at little risk)) or simply take their turrets. the latter is usually the safer option. in these kinds of scenarios where you are extremely ahead, a good idea is to take their outer turret, push in, and rotate in towards middle and take the middle turret. return to bottom, farm, and buy, and move on from there (take objectives such as dragon with your superior strength, buy wards and ward deep and stay bottom, move middle and shove through if your middle can take advantage of your presence (which malz certainly can)) etc.
that game your olaf had extremely poor cs, and nocturne's lategame build was very lulzy, so i wouldn't feel too terrible about losing that one as it was gonna be an uphill struggle unless you really took control of your team (which is never a guarantee in low elo from what i remember). for you personally, i would recommend attempting to take more leadership of your solo queue teams in terms of grouping around the map for objectives, as well as taking less harass in lane (know exactly what twitch can do from invis and where taric is such that you can never be in position for both to jump you at the same time) so that you can bully your lane harder. given that he had the blue side advantage, you did well overall before ganks etc. came into play.
Thanks so much Navi! I was at a huge loss of what to do, but this really helped me. I think a huge issue I need to work on is just what to do once I take out my turret, or my lane is super pushed. I just wander around aimlessly. But I think I understand more now.
Maybe this was just one of those "forget about it and move on" games but I'd really like someone to take a look at it. http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/2878249/ I'm the Mundo. It's a Silver 2 game. And for the record, my thought process with my first top gank was that I saw garen go real aggresive on ani early and I reckoned he'd do it again so that's why I waited there. In hindsight I should have just left and counterganked mid. Besides that I'm just really looking for any advice. Also I don't care how supposedly harsh it is written.
Here's a match where I dominated as Anivia but since I blew most of my placement matches I was in bronze IV that match. What I want to know is if anyone can notice any bad habits I have so that I can get rid of them or just anything I should be doing that better players always do. I know I'm not very good and Doublelift made a quote something along the lines of that if you play low-level players you pick up bad habits and playstyles. http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/2891512/
It's a lengthy game where we give up an early advantage and eventually lose. I'm LOLItsRyan jungling Vi. I know I make some stupid mistakes like getting caught in their jungle trying to steal red cause they've warded, and I mis ult someone instead of cait in a team fight. But I feel that even if I'd have played near perfectly, we still wouldn't have won team fights.
Would appreciate an analysis thanks
EDIT: Two more games where my early ganks give a great advantage, we have a super good lead, and my team mates feed it away both times. I NEED to know what I can do to win these games. I just dropped from Gold 1 to Gold 2 because of these games. And to be quite frank, I'm getting fucking pissed off with my team mates causing me losses. Mr Zerg Russian. Teach me how to carry. PLEASE.
I need to know what I have to do to win these games. I feel I'm playing well, not perfectly by any means, but I feel I'm playing well. Obviously not well enough, and I need to know what the "well enough" is, so I can win these games. What would Snoopeh have done to win? What would CloudTemplar have done to win? Thanks.
EDIT 2: Okay, the next game after this. Feel free not to analyse them if I'm throwing too many useless games at you. But I seriously don't know what to do from here. I'm begging for help.
Two games where I just couldn't stop my team from dying. A lot of the time though, I could have been counterganking or assissting a lane when they died but I was doing something dumb like Wolves or Wraiths. What are some things I can look for?
Hi everyone--I'm still here, just busy with midterms and applying to my practicum sites lately. Gonna do these in order starting this week! Keep them coming, I'll get to them as we go.
On March 01 2013 07:27 LOLItsRyann wrote: ZERG_RUSSIAN I've been reading all of your analysis for these gamers and I super like/enjoy it. So here's one for you.
It's a lengthy game where we give up an early advantage and eventually lose. I'm LOLItsRyan jungling Vi. I know I make some stupid mistakes like getting caught in their jungle trying to steal red cause they've warded, and I mis ult someone instead of cait in a team fight. But I feel that even if I'd have played near perfectly, we still wouldn't have won team fights.
Would appreciate an analysis thanks
EDIT: Two more games where my early ganks give a great advantage, we have a super good lead, and my team mates feed it away both times. I NEED to know what I can do to win these games. I just dropped from Gold 1 to Gold 2 because of these games. And to be quite frank, I'm getting fucking pissed off with my team mates causing me losses. Mr Zerg Russian. Teach me how to carry. PLEASE.
I need to know what I have to do to win these games. I feel I'm playing well, not perfectly by any means, but I feel I'm playing well. Obviously not well enough, and I need to know what the "well enough" is, so I can win these games. What would Snoopeh have done to win? What would CloudTemplar have done to win? Thanks.
EDIT 2: Okay, the next game after this. Feel free not to analyse them if I'm throwing too many useless games at you. But I seriously don't know what to do from here. I'm begging for help.
Starting on the Malphite game because every other one I tried that I haven't analyzed yet up until that point is either crashing or giving me an error response when I try to load it:
3:10 - You definitely did not have to flash for that, just land Q on her and she can't escape. Nidalee is retarded and gets killed, but that was an okay gank. You probably held the wave mid for too long, you should have just let the equilibrium sit after removing a few of the caster minions because your mid is already behind and you know Anivia is a better player, so it's dangerous to tax this lane too hard. Not bad though.
5:15 - Your Graves is totally retarded.
6:25 - Nice harass on mid, you forced her out there.
7:52 - Your whole jungle is up--it's good that you're ganking lanes, but Malphite has a HUGE power spike at level 6 and you should really be rushing that before you start doing all these gank plays. It's great that you egged Aniv and disengaged before J4 got there, but I think the stronger play here is to simply get 6 and abuse ult ganks.
9:00 - It's been a minute and you've only taken 1 camp. You're falling really far behind. Both of your buffs are up and you keep wasting time running around mid trying to help your already useless nidalee. It took you really long to hit level 6 and you're far behind because of that.
10:15 - It's been a minute and 15 seconds and you've only got two 5 gold buff lizards, two 5 gold wolves, and a single big wolf. Your red buff has been up for close to 3 minutes. You're really behind on levels and looking for ganks isn't helping that. You should have rushed 6 and ganked on ult CD instead of trying to make ganks happen before 6 and wasting time after that. I'm gonna stop the analysis here because that's the big problem, you don't have a solid understanding of the power curve timing on Malphite jungle. Think about what the most efficient ways to hit your peaks in power are and rush them, then abuse the timings to shape the game flow.
I'll keep analyzing as time allows, probably one or two a day this week.
On March 01 2013 07:27 LOLItsRyann wrote: ZERG_RUSSIAN I've been reading all of your analysis for these gamers and I super like/enjoy it. So here's one for you.
It's a lengthy game where we give up an early advantage and eventually lose. I'm LOLItsRyan jungling Vi. I know I make some stupid mistakes like getting caught in their jungle trying to steal red cause they've warded, and I mis ult someone instead of cait in a team fight. But I feel that even if I'd have played near perfectly, we still wouldn't have won team fights.
Would appreciate an analysis thanks
EDIT: Two more games where my early ganks give a great advantage, we have a super good lead, and my team mates feed it away both times. I NEED to know what I can do to win these games. I just dropped from Gold 1 to Gold 2 because of these games. And to be quite frank, I'm getting fucking pissed off with my team mates causing me losses. Mr Zerg Russian. Teach me how to carry. PLEASE.
I need to know what I have to do to win these games. I feel I'm playing well, not perfectly by any means, but I feel I'm playing well. Obviously not well enough, and I need to know what the "well enough" is, so I can win these games. What would Snoopeh have done to win? What would CloudTemplar have done to win? Thanks.
EDIT 2: Okay, the next game after this. Feel free not to analyse them if I'm throwing too many useless games at you. But I seriously don't know what to do from here. I'm begging for help.
Starting on the Malphite game because every other one I tried that I haven't analyzed yet up until that point is either crashing or giving me an error response when I try to load it:
3:10 - You definitely did not have to flash for that, just land Q on her and she can't escape. Nidalee is retarded and gets killed, but that was an okay gank. You probably held the wave mid for too long, you should have just let the equilibrium sit after removing a few of the caster minions because your mid is already behind and you know Anivia is a better player, so it's dangerous to tax this lane too hard. Not bad though.
5:15 - Your Graves is totally retarded.
6:25 - Nice harass on mid, you forced her out there.
7:52 - Your whole jungle is up--it's good that you're ganking lanes, but Malphite has a HUGE power spike at level 6 and you should really be rushing that before you start doing all these gank plays. It's great that you egged Aniv and disengaged before J4 got there, but I think the stronger play here is to simply get 6 and abuse ult ganks.
9:00 - It's been a minute and you've only taken 1 camp. You're falling really far behind. Both of your buffs are up and you keep wasting time running around mid trying to help your already useless nidalee. It took you really long to hit level 6 and you're far behind because of that.
10:15 - It's been a minute and 15 seconds and you've only got two 5 gold buff lizards, two 5 gold wolves, and a single big wolf. Your red buff has been up for close to 3 minutes. You're really behind on levels and looking for ganks isn't helping that. You should have rushed 6 and ganked on ult CD instead of trying to make ganks happen before 6 and wasting time after that. I'm gonna stop the analysis here because that's the big problem, you don't have a solid understanding of the power curve timing on Malphite jungle. Think about what the most efficient ways to hit your peaks in power are and rush them, then abuse the timings to shape the game flow.
I'll keep analyzing as time allows, probably one or two a day this week.
Brilliant, that's exactly the kind of response I'm looking for. I guess I'm falling behind because I'm trying to help my laners too much. I just remember feeling at the time that if I don't do something to help then a) they'll lose tower/feed a lot and b) flame me/afk.
I'm not sure what the error responses are about, hope that stops happening. And thanks again, I look forward to the rest of the analysis!
Thanks Monte, I'll get around to doing that in order today for at least one of them. I'll probably have to dl them again and all that. Does anyone have a workaround for the adobe air crash that happens to the LoL client when lolrecorder is open?
I'm the Trundle player, this was a ranked 5s game. I know how we ended up losing the game (completely losing teamfights so like 30+ min isn't important), but I'd like to know if there's anything I could have done better to put my team ahead early.
I'm the Trundle player, this was a ranked 5s game. I know how we ended up losing the game (completely losing teamfights so like 30+ min isn't important), but I'd like to know if there's anything I could have done better to put my team ahead early.
I'm starting here tonight because I can't seem to get any of the others up until now to work on my computer.
0:55 - Good spotting the invade but WOW that Lux bind missed you by like half a millimeter LOL
4:39 - You hesitated way too long on the gank. Just go in and make her blow flash immediately when you pillar then loop around while it's on cooldown (IMO)
8:30 - This is a definite waste of time. Full HP Singed isn't going to die to a lane gank by Trundle when his ult and ghost are both up. This is the weakest part of Trundle's game, he just sucks at ganks against anyone that's not gonna roll over and die from a well-placed pillar and he doesn't put out enough damage to chunk people down for a long time. I would be rushing 6, getting a pink ward, and ganking bot every time I was near and they were low, because that's the only lane you have a chance at killing. Maybe mid but Hecarim is always going to be close enough to countergank and it's really hard to sneak up on Lux as a melee champ, especially when she's warding.
8:49 - Is your Olaf maxing e what
9:15 - So top lane is totally lost forever and there's no way to change that because Olaf doesn't know how to skill his champ, basically you're going to hope to win before Singed takes an inhibitor on you, and he will.
10:40 - You're walking past the only lane that you can really successfully gank and they have the river pink warded and they're not pushed. I gank in this spot because it's the only place that you have any chance at really killing anyone. Instead, you walk to middle and WHOA DID LUX NOT SEE YOU WALK THERE LOL but yeah she edges you guys there and nothing comes of it. I don't think Trundle is a good champion, I would suggest playing better junglers (nocturne/vi/hec/xin do basically what trundle does but are stronger in different regards).
11:53 - I just noticed you have exhaust--how come you didn't use it on Lux when you ganked her? It would have let fiddle get a kill. Also, it's really dangerous to invade here with Lux coming back to lane from base and Hecarim in the middle. If they had a ward on that side of the river in any spot, they'd have seen you go in and could be trapping when you have no escape summoner against like 4 forms of CC. I guess fiddle is there but the payoff is like a wraith camp and you're risking a super easy death because you can't flash wall.
12:38 - Your Olaf is maxing w now with one point in q wtf
12:40 - Nice countergank, but they were retarded for diving in the first place. You guys have a shot at this game if Ezreal snowballs right now and mows down everyone on their team in a sick display of perfect kiting and skillshot accuracy.
13:34 - Very nice dragon sneak. That really helped your team. It was a risky gambit but I liked the timing.
14:02 - Olaf owns himself super hard in a spot where he should have just got an easy kill lol
16:04 - You missed a perfect chance to pillar isolate Hecarim and Singed in that fight, which cost you at least one kill I think.
16:28 - What is Olaf doing building a lantern in lane holy lol
17:00 - It's 17 minutes and your adc doesn't have boots
18:20 - I don't think you've exhausted anyone yet and it's cost you like 3 kills
20:15 - Dude, exhaust LOL
20:39 - I just watched Fiddlesticks miss literally every creep in a wave as he stood there alone
24:21 - Yep, game is over. You guys are currently ahead in gold but your mid laner doesn't scale very well into any point of the game, your choice of jungler is really weak throughout most of the game with a small peak in power at level 11-16 I think? but not as hard as Hecarim, and Olaf needs to learn how to build and skill his champion. Ezreal is a little fed but it doesn't matter, he's not gonna outscale Vayne with two tanks/Janna/Lux to back her up, and Singed is currently and for the rest of the game going to be a complete monster against your team. I would work on team comp in general (get good at stronger junglers, and make your mid/top lane learn to build/skill correctly in Olaf's case and to pick standard in Fiddle's, although he didn't do bad really, it's just a weak overall choice) and learning to use exhaust (or just take ghost or flash if that's easier to remember).
That's what I've got for you right now. I think there's a little to be learned from this game in that you guys outplayed them a couple of times but mainly you're just losing on comp/not knowing your own champs.
Here's a game that I played as Leona today. I did well, but we lost lane, so I feel like that has to at least be slightly my fault. I feel like the game would have taken a much different direction if Karthus wasn't asleep at the wheel during a dragon fight.
I didn't feel like I was warding much but a fight seemed to break out right when I got to lane every time (usually by Varus getting caught).
I'm the Trundle player, this was a ranked 5s game. I know how we ended up losing the game (completely losing teamfights so like 30+ min isn't important), but I'd like to know if there's anything I could have done better to put my team ahead early.
I'm starting here tonight because I can't seem to get any of the others up until now to work on my computer.
0:55 - Good spotting the invade but WOW that Lux bind missed you by like half a millimeter LOL
4:39 - You hesitated way too long on the gank. Just go in and make her blow flash immediately when you pillar then loop around while it's on cooldown (IMO)
8:30 - This is a definite waste of time. Full HP Singed isn't going to die to a lane gank by Trundle when his ult and ghost are both up. This is the weakest part of Trundle's game, he just sucks at ganks against anyone that's not gonna roll over and die from a well-placed pillar and he doesn't put out enough damage to chunk people down for a long time. I would be rushing 6, getting a pink ward, and ganking bot every time I was near and they were low, because that's the only lane you have a chance at killing. Maybe mid but Hecarim is always going to be close enough to countergank and it's really hard to sneak up on Lux as a melee champ, especially when she's warding.
8:49 - Is your Olaf maxing e what
9:15 - So top lane is totally lost forever and there's no way to change that because Olaf doesn't know how to skill his champ, basically you're going to hope to win before Singed takes an inhibitor on you, and he will.
10:40 - You're walking past the only lane that you can really successfully gank and they have the river pink warded and they're not pushed. I gank in this spot because it's the only place that you have any chance at really killing anyone. Instead, you walk to middle and WHOA DID LUX NOT SEE YOU WALK THERE LOL but yeah she edges you guys there and nothing comes of it. I don't think Trundle is a good champion, I would suggest playing better junglers (nocturne/vi/hec/xin do basically what trundle does but are stronger in different regards).
11:53 - I just noticed you have exhaust--how come you didn't use it on Lux when you ganked her? It would have let fiddle get a kill. Also, it's really dangerous to invade here with Lux coming back to lane from base and Hecarim in the middle. If they had a ward on that side of the river in any spot, they'd have seen you go in and could be trapping when you have no escape summoner against like 4 forms of CC. I guess fiddle is there but the payoff is like a wraith camp and you're risking a super easy death because you can't flash wall.
12:38 - Your Olaf is maxing w now with one point in q wtf
12:40 - Nice countergank, but they were retarded for diving in the first place. You guys have a shot at this game if Ezreal snowballs right now and mows down everyone on their team in a sick display of perfect kiting and skillshot accuracy.
13:34 - Very nice dragon sneak. That really helped your team. It was a risky gambit but I liked the timing.
14:02 - Olaf owns himself super hard in a spot where he should have just got an easy kill lol
16:04 - You missed a perfect chance to pillar isolate Hecarim and Singed in that fight, which cost you at least one kill I think.
16:28 - What is Olaf doing building a lantern in lane holy lol
17:00 - It's 17 minutes and your adc doesn't have boots
18:20 - I don't think you've exhausted anyone yet and it's cost you like 3 kills
20:15 - Dude, exhaust LOL
20:39 - I just watched Fiddlesticks miss literally every creep in a wave as he stood there alone
24:21 - Yep, game is over. You guys are currently ahead in gold but your mid laner doesn't scale very well into any point of the game, your choice of jungler is really weak throughout most of the game with a small peak in power at level 11-16 I think? but not as hard as Hecarim, and Olaf needs to learn how to build and skill his champion. Ezreal is a little fed but it doesn't matter, he's not gonna outscale Vayne with two tanks/Janna/Lux to back her up, and Singed is currently and for the rest of the game going to be a complete monster against your team. I would work on team comp in general (get good at stronger junglers, and make your mid/top lane learn to build/skill correctly in Olaf's case and to pick standard in Fiddle's, although he didn't do bad really, it's just a weak overall choice) and learning to use exhaust (or just take ghost or flash if that's easier to remember).
That's what I've got for you right now. I think there's a little to be learned from this game in that you guys outplayed them a couple of times but mainly you're just losing on comp/not knowing your own champs.
Thanks for the writeup 5HIT. So if I'm the jungler in a situation where I know for sure one of my lanes is going to lose badly without my intervention (our Olaf is Bronze 2 and doesn't normally top, everyone else on our team is mid silver or higher) should I just completely abandon it from the get-go? Or should I pick a really strong ganker and just ensure that the lane wins?
Support game with lulu in silver 1. I fucked up really bad at lvl1, I didn't expect corki to fall over so fast, should have exhausted earlier (when Taric exhaust came out I should have just exhausted Varus). Afterwards I just tried to keep them harrassed with EQ, and we actually netted a kill on Corki but, I think generally I was playing too aggressive against Taric when Corki was below 50% hp. I also lost brush control when Taric brought in a pink, and they ended up pushed up against us the entire time and zoning Corki out of cs.
I generally dislike playing passive against Taric with lulu, especially since corki was already behind. I wanted to pressure the taric lane back so the next time they try to all-in us it wouldn't be so one sided. If Corki eats a taric combo with some ad damage and we just play passive we're gonna be zoned forever and I just hate that.
Jungle Jarvan, silver 2 (although I was firstpick at 0 points, so more likely silver 3/4)
We were doing well, and then about halfway through we just start losing fights randomly, and end up losing the game pretty hard. I was probably going too hard onto vayne instead if peeling for my team, and I probably could have used more armour earlier in the game.
On March 01 2013 07:27 LOLItsRyann wrote: ZERG_RUSSIAN I've been reading all of your analysis for these gamers and I super like/enjoy it. So here's one for you.
It's a lengthy game where we give up an early advantage and eventually lose. I'm LOLItsRyan jungling Vi. I know I make some stupid mistakes like getting caught in their jungle trying to steal red cause they've warded, and I mis ult someone instead of cait in a team fight. But I feel that even if I'd have played near perfectly, we still wouldn't have won team fights.
Would appreciate an analysis thanks
EDIT: Two more games where my early ganks give a great advantage, we have a super good lead, and my team mates feed it away both times. I NEED to know what I can do to win these games. I just dropped from Gold 1 to Gold 2 because of these games. And to be quite frank, I'm getting fucking pissed off with my team mates causing me losses. Mr Zerg Russian. Teach me how to carry. PLEASE.
I need to know what I have to do to win these games. I feel I'm playing well, not perfectly by any means, but I feel I'm playing well. Obviously not well enough, and I need to know what the "well enough" is, so I can win these games. What would Snoopeh have done to win? What would CloudTemplar have done to win? Thanks.
EDIT 2: Okay, the next game after this. Feel free not to analyse them if I'm throwing too many useless games at you. But I seriously don't know what to do from here. I'm begging for help.
Hi 5HIT and associates, this is a game of me playing Win Nao and I lost, so there is obviously something wrong with my play. Would you care to look at it please? It's a silver 1 game (at least, I'm silver 1 and I was third pick). http://www.leaguereplays.com/replays/match/2999535/
On March 12 2013 07:17 upperbound wrote: Here's a game that I played as Leona today. I did well, but we lost lane, so I feel like that has to at least be slightly my fault. I feel like the game would have taken a much different direction if Karthus wasn't asleep at the wheel during a dragon fight.
I didn't feel like I was warding much but a fight seemed to break out right when I got to lane every time (usually by Varus getting caught).
1:40 - You guys definitely shoulda took doubles as blue side
4:05 - At this point I almost think it's worth it to just dive them. They're really low and really bad and you can almost assuredly pick up FB here even if it means you dying. This is risky, but they're horrible and this is worth it especially when you can trade off the AD for the support as a large creep wave is near the tower. I'd like to see you being more aggressive with Leona. You're standing in the bush and letting your ADC do all of the work.
You know what, I'm actually stopping this replay here because Aphromoo teaches this lesson better than I ever will:
On March 16 2013 02:39 Nos- wrote: Support game with lulu in silver 1. I fucked up really bad at lvl1, I didn't expect corki to fall over so fast, should have exhausted earlier (when Taric exhaust came out I should have just exhausted Varus). Afterwards I just tried to keep them harrassed with EQ, and we actually netted a kill on Corki but, I think generally I was playing too aggressive against Taric when Corki was below 50% hp. I also lost brush control when Taric brought in a pink, and they ended up pushed up against us the entire time and zoning Corki out of cs.
I generally dislike playing passive against Taric with lulu, especially since corki was already behind. I wanted to pressure the taric lane back so the next time they try to all-in us it wouldn't be so one sided. If Corki eats a taric combo with some ad damage and we just play passive we're gonna be zoned forever and I just hate that.
1:05 - I think that explorer ward was unnecessary--you can just stand in the bush because TF is covering mid entrance. I like to use explorer wards a little more offensively or to bait pinks out. Still, this is safe beyond safe and a good idea vs a Taric comp who should probably invade. On that note, I think you should be covering the other entrance to blue buff because the 1:35 gank from river is one of my favorite invade ganks.
2:55 - You already pointed out the exhaust slip here--that was more or less Corki's fault but you might have saved him. No big deal.
6:00 - Nice harass, you just won the lane back and forced a Taric flash there. Time to get some wards down, you're blind in the river vs a strong ganker in a Taric lane.
6:15 - That was a really strong play to stop Varus' bluepill, that set him back really far because your creepwave is going to die to tower and he's gonna miss a ton of xp.
6:35 - Holy shit that Varus is worse than your Corki LOL.
8:00 - Your Corki is retarded, that's very demoralizing.
9:05 - Okay, so you're doing really well on support here and you know that because Taric just exhausted you to save his ADC rofl.
11:17 - Yeah, this game is lost, your Corki is just too dumb. Maybe consider picking up ADC to get out of this bracket? You're clearly better than Corki is at it lol. Analysis ends here, that fight just snowballed them really, really hard. Corki's already useless and Varus is going off really hard, and after that fight even TF/Noc ganks aren't gonna win you the lane. Nice support, probably could have been played a little tighter in some spots but overall you're far better than the other players in this game. My advice is to force other roles more often and get yourself to a point where you can queue with better ADC players .
I'd like some feedback on the game recorded there. It was a slaughter but I think I could have done a lot better. Darius seems like a rough lane for Rumble, plus I fell for a stupid bait. Any thoughts?
Here is another game I would like some feedback on (this one would probably be more useful since it's a closer game at least). Riven used to be my go-to champ every game, but lately I can't seem to win a ranked game with her. I think I started out well but maybe made some bad decisions or didn't push myself enough to win?
These were recorded around Gold IV - Plat V level. Thank you for any input.
LOL Shirokuro is in your game on veigar. His main is Diamond 1 and he's my duo buddy on his smurf at times.
Anyway yeah so like the Rumble vs Darius lane is tricky because Darius can out-trade you for a long time and all in you after you get the trade advantage. If your jungler had waited until you had flamespitter up to gank you would have got the kill, and if you hadn't died to the naut gank it would have been fine too. Against Darius try to keep your HP topped off in lane because especially as he approaches 6 he gets scarier as your health gets lower. I think you played the lane well and made the right choices, Darius is just a rough matchup and sometimes it's worth it to buy a dolans shield or even ninja tabi. Basically you're waiting until level 5 to start really taking control of the trades and then you can hit 6 and all in IF Darius isn't 6 himself because that's exactly what he's thinking too. At some point the flamespitter + harpoon harass should be strong enough to turn it into a farm war or even into your advantage as long as you don't slip up any time before that.
Darius is a son of a bitch though and I hate seeing him top lane.
On May 15 2013 06:17 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: LOL Shirokuro is in your game on veigar. His main is Diamond 1 and he's my duo buddy on his smurf at times.
Anyway yeah so like the Rumble vs Darius lane is tricky because Darius can out-trade you for a long time and all in you after you get the trade advantage. If your jungler had waited until you had flamespitter up to gank you would have got the kill, and if you hadn't died to the naut gank it would have been fine too. Against Darius try to keep your HP topped off in lane because especially as he approaches 6 he gets scarier as your health gets lower. I think you played the lane well and made the right choices, Darius is just a rough matchup and sometimes it's worth it to buy a dolans shield or even ninja tabi. Basically you're waiting until level 5 to start really taking control of the trades and then you can hit 6 and all in IF Darius isn't 6 himself because that's exactly what he's thinking too. At some point the flamespitter + harpoon harass should be strong enough to turn it into a farm war or even into your advantage as long as you don't slip up any time before that.
Darius is a son of a bitch though and I hate seeing him top lane.
Will check out g2 later today
Thanks!
Yeah, I was thinking a D Shield would've been a good pickup, and coulda grabbed Sorcs instead of Tabi then. I hate facing Darius, because most of my mains are completely countered by him (Riv, Akali, Rumble, Diana) and I feel damn helpless unless he horribly misplays or the jung comes to help.
I think if I didn't fall for that stupid bait I'd have been in a little better shape, despite all of the other lanes getting creamed. I don't have too much experience with Rumble matchups yet, so as long as I'm learning something I don't mind the loss.
And he was Diamond 1? Dayum. Honestly I have not won a single ranked game with a Veigar on my team this season, so I didn't have high hopes to start lol.
On May 24 2013 23:26 Capriccioso wrote: This is a really cool thing and a nice service you do for the community. I might be interested in doing something like this as well.
Hey the more the merrier, I'm sure there are plenty of people on TL that would like to have their replays looked at by higher level players
On May 24 2013 23:26 Capriccioso wrote: This is a really cool thing and a nice service you do for the community. I might be interested in doing something like this as well.
Hey the more the merrier, I'm sure there are plenty of people on TL that would like to have their replays looked at by higher level players
This... I love the initiative that 5HIT took in making this thread, but I think it could be cool to try out a more expansive "help" thread to see how it works.
I would volunteer to help, but I'm not sure there's much demand for the dude that's been stuck in Silver I or the Elo equivalent for beyond forever.
Yeah by all means, I don't want to claim exclusive rights to replay analysis on TL and I think it's a great way for the community to learn and generate discussion. I just wanted my name on another thread ggggggggggg.
No, seriously, if you want to do an analysis, feel free to help out. It'd be great for the community and would probably help improve your own game sense as well.
On May 28 2013 12:20 captharlock wrote: I've been having issue actually uploading games for awhile now does any TL'ers on here know how to fix that issue with lolreplay
I just downloaded OBS and streamed it on Twitch so they could see the VoD.
Hi folks. They're both the same game. Some after game reflections (or on the spot reflections). Baiting my team into a bunch of bad fights was my biggest mistake. I also had two mechanical slip ups as well. My decision to go top when Garen dc'd was also bad since I suspected Irelia was baiting because I saw Hecarim head towards top, I ended up not getting any cs and eventually left the turret anyway. I also trigger finger E after R way too much. One skirmish I even ended up hitting a Q (then they flashed out of range for my R follow up so I ended up E-ing absolutely nothing).
What I would like to know: A) What I did wrong. B) What I should've done to win the game.
Your Diana play is entirely too passive at all points of the game past level 3. You should be getting up in people's faces and bursting them super hard and 1v2 idgaf I'm gonna kill one maybe two of you once you get ult. You should be farming wraith camps more on both sides every time they're up once you get ult and harassing with ult almost every time you land a Q. Don't worry so much about the pro plays insta QR strat, you can land a Q then R after and be just as effective. Your farm needs a ton of work, you missed a lot at every point in game. Aside from that just go hard as shit, you can blow people up really hard with Diana and I feel like you're only using about half of her DPS. If you just learned how to display full burst aggression without going pants on head retarded you'd be about 2x as effective with Diana. Also try watching a good Diana play her and watch how they farm. That's a p big part of it, too.
Like, you should care less about your score and care only about owning your lane opponent and the rest of the enemy team so hard that they can't possibly win. Who cares if you have 0 deaths when you lose the game or 20 when you win? Just own them, that's more important than score.
On June 09 2013 10:06 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Kiss I watched your replay
Your Diana play is entirely too passive at all points of the game past level 3. You should be getting up in people's faces and bursting them super hard and 1v2 idgaf I'm gonna kill one maybe two of you once you get ult. You should be farming wraith camps more on both sides every time they're up once you get ult and harassing with ult almost every time you land a Q. Don't worry so much about the pro plays insta QR strat, you can land a Q then R after and be just as effective. Your farm needs a ton of work, you missed a lot at every point in game. Aside from that just go hard as shit, you can blow people up really hard with Diana and I feel like you're only using about half of her DPS. If you just learned how to display full burst aggression without going pants on head retarded you'd be about 2x as effective with Diana. Also try watching a good Diana play her and watch how they farm. That's a p big part of it, too.
I have a really huge issue with dps IMO. I never feel like I do enough damage tbh even when I reach full build. The other issue is, I can't find any good Diana players because no one plays her after the nerf. I watched OGN Rapidstar during the semis but he got crushed =(.
Also I felt like every time I went in, it costed us the game because it would bait us into bad fights or I'm not doing something right etc =\. I wasn't really certain what my role was that game, to initiate, to get on the bruiser, to peel for caitlyn? etc.
Reviving this thread. This was an infuriating game to play.
There's some typically solo q nonsense at the beginning. I start off the game with some uncharacteristically poor cs, but we get early kills and a big lead. My first death was my Jarvan telling me "go in I will knock them all up," not telling me his skills were not off cd yet (I maybe should have known this).
After that, lane is still really, really easy, but my team refuses to group for objectives and we blow a pretty large lead. I'm not sure how to better coordinate a team in a mid game (or get them to peel for a 12 kill Caitlyn), but I just get wrecked. There is 1 death in the middle of the map where I knew instantly that I was gonna die after Rumble ulted, I got greedy and thought I could string together 4-5 autos for a kill and got turned on and WW ulted. I start getting flustered after this because my team won't do anything I ask, then people decide to start going in alone and wandering wherever and the game totally falls apart.
I get shit a bunch of times for wanting to take red buff, and a gang chorus of 3 people tell me that only the jungler can "give" me the buff.
Pre-game: I noticed you don't run lifesteal quints. Imo they are very much needed especially if you start doran's blade.
You get the FB on vayne, which is nice. Remember to push out the lane asap, and go back. You need to use the gold you obtain and get back to lane so you can expand your advantage. Vayne doesn't really get denied THAT much experience compared to a pushed wave under her tower.
Around 6:45'ish you kill warwick, you and annie go back to lane, because you didn't shove up and back off, annie dies. However you manage to get both leona and vayne which is nice. Back off earlier, i know you prolly wanted the extra bit of gold, but annie is back in lane, while you're going back, leaving her vurnerable with nothing to do.
When you bait a counter-gank, let your support do it. You get blown up instantly and the trade ends up 0 for 2.
20 min'ish you and annie start to siege bottom inner. Though you almost get the turret, you get shut down. When you're as fed as you were at that point, group up. Tell your team that you can easily force turrets together, just keep poking and sieging instead of going balls deep, the two of you, without any real vision in their red jungle
26:30 you get caught and die. For the last 5-6 minutes you and your team haven't done anything except for the dragon. You're still heavily fed, but not abusing it at all. No inners are down, even though you at this point have a 6k gold lead. All of you go alone (renekton sitting top, you're wandering around quite alot etc.).
Around the 30 min mark your team finally nails the grouping part after the enemy attempts to steal your blue. There's some back and forth trades and you get the inner turret, however this could have and should have been done way way earlier considering how fed you are.
At 32 min, you're both even in towers. Again, considering the lead you had before, the enemy team had way better grouping, tried to catch some of your team mates off guard, and it's finally paying off. Everytime an inner turret falls, not only does it give 750 global gold, it also gives alot of map control and the enemy is surely using it, while your team still seems to splitting and defending lanes for farm. The gold lead you had before, is gone, you're only up 500 gold at this point.
A team fight emerges at roughly 36 min where you trade 1 for 3. This is huge, however you aren't pushing. You ARE the AD carry, you're the one who should be pushing. instead you return to farming.
You get fucked abit later, enemy gets baron, and despite killing Garen it's way too late. Vayne has the items, rumble is fed too and the control is gone.
So what can you fix?
Your job as an AD carry is to siege turrets. With someone like caitlyn, it's rather easy, but you aren't taking any advantage of that big lead you got early-game. The game tilted when you got shut-down in bot, trying to siege the inner with Annie, and after that the enemy was able to slowly recover little by little. You NEED to group, you NEED to siege, for christ sake, you were 9-2 and kept pushing way too deep without any real vision, when your mid-laner wasn't stomping and the mid outer wasn't down either. The likes of Jarvan and Renekton excels at peeling for AD carries, but you didn't use this at any point during the game, except for maybe at the end, where it was too late.
When something like this happens to you again, tell your team "guys i'm really fed, let's group and get some turrets, we can easily get the inner turrets". The biggest issue from that point, is getting the inhibs, but it all comes down to map-control, something that i noticed the enemy team focusing heavily on. If you watch the replay again, look at how they either stuck to a 3-2 formation or a 4-1 formation with the 5th guy coming in for clean-ups.
TL;DR Group up, be confident and convince your team that is it the right thing to do, and make sure to complain if you don't feel like you cannot abuse the open map due to lack of wards. Global gold and vision is the way to victory in mid-game.
Pre-game: I noticed you don't run lifesteal quints. Imo they are very much needed especially if you start doran's blade.
You get the FB on vayne, which is nice. Remember to push out the lane asap, and go back. You need to use the gold you obtain and get back to lane so you can expand your advantage. Vayne doesn't really get denied THAT much experience compared to a pushed wave under her tower.
Around 6:45'ish you kill warwick, you and annie go back to lane, because you didn't shove up and back off, annie dies. However you manage to get both leona and vayne which is nice. Back off earlier, i know you prolly wanted the extra bit of gold, but annie is back in lane, while you're going back, leaving her vurnerable with nothing to do.
When you bait a counter-gank, let your support do it. You get blown up instantly and the trade ends up 0 for 2.
20 min'ish you and annie start to siege bottom inner. Though you almost get the turret, you get shut down. When you're as fed as you were at that point, group up. Tell your team that you can easily force turrets together, just keep poking and sieging instead of going balls deep, the two of you, without any real vision in their red jungle
26:30 you get caught and die. For the last 5-6 minutes you and your team haven't done anything except for the dragon. You're still heavily fed, but not abusing it at all. No inners are down, even though you at this point have a 6k gold lead. All of you go alone (renekton sitting top, you're wandering around quite alot etc.).
Around the 30 min mark your team finally nails the grouping part after the enemy attempts to steal your blue. There's some back and forth trades and you get the inner turret, however this could have and should have been done way way earlier considering how fed you are.
At 32 min, you're both even in towers. Again, considering the lead you had before, the enemy team had way better grouping, tried to catch some of your team mates off guard, and it's finally paying off. Everytime an inner turret falls, not only does it give 750 global gold, it also gives alot of map control and the enemy is surely using it, while your team still seems to splitting and defending lanes for farm. The gold lead you had before, is gone, you're only up 500 gold at this point.
A team fight emerges at roughly 36 min where you trade 1 for 3. This is huge, however you aren't pushing. You ARE the AD carry, you're the one who should be pushing. instead you return to farming.
You get fucked abit later, enemy gets baron, and despite killing Garen it's way too late. Vayne has the items, rumble is fed too and the control is gone.
So what can you fix?
Your job as an AD carry is to siege turrets. With someone like caitlyn, it's rather easy, but you aren't taking any advantage of that big lead you got early-game. The game tilted when you got shut-down in bot, trying to siege the inner with Annie, and after that the enemy was able to slowly recover little by little. You NEED to group, you NEED to siege, for christ sake, you were 9-2 and kept pushing way too deep without any real vision, when your mid-laner wasn't stomping and the mid outer wasn't down either. The likes of Jarvan and Renekton excels at peeling for AD carries, but you didn't use this at any point during the game, except for maybe at the end, where it was too late.
When something like this happens to you again, tell your team "guys i'm really fed, let's group and get some turrets, we can easily get the inner turrets". The biggest issue from that point, is getting the inhibs, but it all comes down to map-control, something that i noticed the enemy team focusing heavily on. If you watch the replay again, look at how they either stuck to a 3-2 formation or a 4-1 formation with the 5th guy coming in for clean-ups.
TL;DR Group up, be confident and convince your team that is it the right thing to do, and make sure to complain if you don't feel like you cannot abuse the open map due to lack of wards. Global gold and vision is the way to victory in mid-game.
Thanks Sponkz. I'm definitely going to try to be more vocal about getting my team grouped up earlier. I did try to some extent, but I definitely am going to explain it like that so that there's more of a clear goal in mind. I'm going to try and make sure to rotate mid after taking the first turret and then getting the team to keep a goal in mind, rather than just trying to deny Vayne as much as possible. I tried to force the issue too late (e.g., the fight where I get a double kill on Garen and Leona in mid was me trying to get my team to push, then just deciding to do it myself after no one responded/people told me they weren't gonna come mid).
Also, AD is not my main role, so I never got LS quints, but they are definitely my next priority. After we won the fight at 36 minutes, someone made a Baron call instead of the push, which I thought was reasonable so I headed in that direction. However, I was the only one that went, and so I ended up just pushing top out, which I know was not a great capitalization on the team fight but I wasn't sure what else to do.
Other than these issues, was there anything with my mechanical play that I should work on? Anything that I didn't do well?
LS Quints are mandatory in the meta right now because it means you can put 800g that would have went into a vamp scepter into over halfway to a BF sword. When you play Caitlyn all you're doing is sieging towers in 100% safety. You have the range to push people out and the traps and net to stay safe with minimal warding from your support. All you do is push and lay traps along the bush to prevent any support engages. Treat any engagement from them as an all-in and back off because their jungler will be there soon, and otherwise poke them and their tower out while lining up waves to hit towers en masse.
I find it a lot harder to carry games as an ADC than it used to be, but that probably just means my positioning isn't as good as it needs to be.
Your mechanics actually seem rather decent for a silver player. You hit ALOT of stuff that i personally cannot hit (that finishing Q on warwick at 6.45 was beast), however your postioning seems to be the issue. Sometimes i noticed that you go balls deep to finish someone off and then die because you're next to a bruiser. Safe-hitting is the #1 priority as ADC, it doesn't matter who you hit, as long as you stay alive.
@Zerg
I suffer from the same thing, though mostly i'm way too dependant on my support.
Thanks guys. I played Tristana and tried to just work on patience, safety, and encourage team map movement, and went 15-0 :p I also played another Cait game before this but my support was afk so not to do there...
I've recently been recording my solo queue games on Oceania. Would you guys be interested in skimming through them and pointing out errors and mistakes?
Yeah, give us some interesting ones! I'm on summer break from grad school and I only have one class.
Next week the APA conference is coming to Hawaii though, and I live here/go to grad school for clinical psychology so I basically have to attend. Gonna try to hook up with some hot psychologists!
On July 24 2013 21:11 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Yeah, give us some interesting ones! I'm on summer break from grad school and I only have one class.
Next week the APA conference is coming to Hawaii though, and I live here/go to grad school for clinical psychology so I basically have to attend. Gonna try to hook up with some hot psychologists!
Homefield advantage in Hawaii seems pretty sick. Hookups seem guaranteed with that insider knowledge.
EDIT: Games from my promotion series, really frustrated how these turned out. They were winnable, but I guess a refusal to acknowledge the importance of objectives got me here (was too occupied trying to farm).
A Vayne where I got carried by my support thresh. I'm really lost as to what to do and where to be as Vayne. I'm just thinking of staying in the back line but her short range kind of forces my hand in terms of being closer to the other team. I think I just need to work on using tumble to get out of sticky situations
Sup, I'm only like, level 16ish now, so my knowledge of most champs kinda blows, and other than buffs and split pushing, however compared to other people around my level my cs'ing is fairly decent. Basically, since I'm still level'ing and nowhere close to playing ranked/draft yet, just been trying out a couple of different champions, this game I picked up Twisted Fate, and seemed to do pretty well for the most part, although cs'ing feels a little harder with him. I really liked the playstyle though and I think I'll probably play him as my main champion.
What are some things I can work on, based on this game?
It's actually really hard to find a team with any kind of cooperative chemistry at my level so I'm really just focus'ing on cs'ing better at the moment. Main error I found myself doing a lot is not using my zhonya's active in time, (didnt know you could switch inventory around to fit your keybinds so not as much now that i can make it always a consistent key)
But more often than not, I'll move in a teamfight with a gold card pulled, and it's 50/50 whether i can get it off before I get cc'd and then nuked. I have a really hard time engaging with pretty much any champion against like fiddle's fear or crowd control's like it, and I almost feel like using zhonya's active just to avoid a cc before actually landing my gold card is really dangerous for my team, and myself because they can just wait it out and then nuke me anyways.
Sort of figured out my own playstyle, seems to be working for the most part. Using that high mobility with teleport and my ult allowing me to solo towers constantly (Using mobility boots with alacrity and lich bane and twin shadows). Works pretty well. http://i.imgur.com/QCh6DKb.jpg
On July 25 2013 13:13 GTR wrote: Finally had a long-ish game. Please point out mechanical errors more than anything - I know the Irelia I was lanning with was god awful.
EDIT: Games from my promotion series, really frustrated how these turned out. They were winnable, but I guess a refusal to acknowledge the importance of objectives got me here (was too occupied trying to farm).
I took the kennen game where your team is draven/shyvana/sona/zed as the others for some reason doesn't work (getting bug splat, if someone knows how to fix pls tell, it happens for me alot).
6.30 You get FB. Make sure to push the lane fully out to the turret, before you recall. You weren't dangerously low.
14.30 Up untill now, you haven't really punished Kha'Zix at all, despite being a ahead in xp. The moment you decide to try an all-in is horrible. You should wait for your lvl 11, or generally only try for all-ins when you have the level advantage. Because of your FB, you gain levels slighty faster than him, but you haven't abused it and made two attempts to all-in where he got away.
20:00 Warwick ganks you when you try to all-in Kha'zix. The only real solution to this, is to ward. But trust me when i say this, it happens to alot of players and it's the power of jungle assists when laning phase extends this far.
30:00 Your team is awfully behind and despite being decently fed, you are unable to do anything and you lose.
These games are a typical example of isolating the map. You and Kha'zix were farming alone, meanwhile your team was losing the 4v4 in bot/mid. When stuff like this happens as a top laner, you should try and help out your team by either picking a proper time to do drake (when you respawned after the ww gank, would've been a perfect timing) or try and force down mid turret, bot turret or even try ganking some of the lanes. The enemy bot lane reached your inhib pretty much by solo pushing, and sometimes you just gotta tell yourself to lose the turret on purpose, let your opponent get a slight lead and then try to create plays elsewhere so your team can catch up.
I'd love to review more replays if someone can tell me how to fix my lolreplay
Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
A Vayne where I got carried by my support thresh. I'm really lost as to what to do and where to be as Vayne. I'm just thinking of staying in the back line but her short range kind of forces my hand in terms of being closer to the other team. I think I just need to work on using tumble to get out of sticky situations
You guys had a really nice invade level 1 that actually panned out because their top laner refused to come down. Then you got to lane earlier and thresh hit a really nice hook but you're missing a lot of CS.
Out of curiosity, what is your mastery setup? Are you taking butcher? Perhaps that might help when you run 6% lifesteal. I personally run one AD quint and two lifesteal quints but either way is fine. If you're running 6% I suggest you take butcher. Hell, take it regardless, butcher is amazing. But yeah, work on last hitting without tumble, vayne's attackspeed at lv 1 is really bad.
3:53 - This Thresh is going off wtf lol, he just landed two hook combos in a row on Ezreal. Work on engaging the same time as your support, your aggression and his are not lining up quite right. Also on Vayne I tend to take QEWQ or QEQW because E helps you escape bad situations and line up kills much more than W does at level 2.
4:22 - I would personally have went back to heal up and buy items before Ezreal got back to lane. You managed to push two waves into his tower and that should allow you to go heal/buy, especially when Thresh got FB with you on assist. It's possible to get FB and lose the next trade because Ezreal may have purchased an item at this point which wins him trades.
4:56 - This Thresh is on point with his supporting, without that lantern and ping you would have been in a really bad spot.
6:45 - Wtf this Thresh is basically going 1v1 with Ezreal and winning lol
8:25 - You blew your ult and forced a flash but I think if you had condemned immediately you would have got a kill on Lux. I don't even think you needed ult there to pick up a kill tbh.
9:30 - I think you should bluepill more often when you have time. You're oom and by being in lane you are forcing Thresh to stay with you, and he's at 1/4 mana and hp. When you saw the Amumu gank it would have been a great time to go and shop for both of you--instead you trade 1 for 1 which isn't terrible but I think if you were faster at reacting to Thresh's aggression (tumble in immediately when he lands that hook, I think you could have killed Lux without one of you dying). Also if you had been a little better at last hitting you might have been able to buy something big.
9:48 - Oh it ended up being 1 for 2 after a good Ezreal snipe. Gotta watch those. Also against Lux/Ezreal who are both 100% skillshots I would probably opt for boots over the second dagger. Personal preference. If you had been last hitting better you would have been able to buy all of it .
10:50 - When you come back to lane and your lane has creeps in front of the tower like that it's fine to freeze it there, especially if your opponent isn't in the lane. Pushing it like you're doing allows him to get the experience and gold from the wave while freezing it allows you to gain an advantage. There's nothing going on that requires you to push so I think freezing is better.
11:18 - If you had condemned immediately I think you would have wallstunned Ezreal. This might have been a kill.
(I think overall you should work on your harass mechanics as an ADC. When they walk in to last hit you should be hitting them if there's no creeps you're going to miss. If you have the choice between farming and harassing you have to kinda evaluate where you stand in lane and which will be more valuable. Especially against bad players it's more important to harass because they will mess up and play worse because of it. Against stronger players you won't get as many opportunities to punish them and it's more important to CS. Needless to say, I'd be harassing this Ezreal all day lol.)
13:56 - Work on coordinating with your support more. You should be bluepilling at the same time in spots like this because there's nothing to be done in lane except get ganked. Once you kill them and push wave to tower there's nothing left but to bluepill and get back in lane before you lose creeps.
14:50 - That was a bad spot to pop ult because it's you and Thresh with no creeps vs Ez/Lux with a massive creepwave. Even if you kill them, the creepwave is almost more important, and you're risking getting outplayed by them just fighting you. Luckily, they got scared and ran off. Don't get me wrong, you have a fresh big item buy and could probably win that but it's just bad form. Don't engage in massive creepwaves.
15:40 - Delaying boots this long has cost you 2 kills and a flash. This all comes from the last hitting early game too. If you had last hit two cannon minions and a couple from the wave you would have had boots here and those boots would have got you Amumu and Lux without having to flash. I think I would have picked up Ezreal too. Also I'm not sure if you used BotRK active but that would have got either of them for free as well.
16:31 - There's nothing to do right now. Bluepill and buy boots. It's almost surrender time for the enemy team and you're the slowest member in the game on a champ that relies on movespeed. Everyone else has at least basic boots if not boots 2. Your contribution in teamfights is severely diminished because of this.
18:16 - The decision to buy Zeal instead of Zerks + dagger cost you a kill on Ezreal. You're still slower than Amumu even when you are chasing people. Tumble can mitigate that but generally get boots faster.
I'm gonna stop analyzing here because that's the main reason you're having a hard time in teamfights from what I see. Your reaction time could use some work and that will improve as you get comfortable with the champ but without movespeed you're going to have a hard time unlocking Vayne's full potential. She needs to hit the same person 3 times and if they can walk faster than you then you just straight up can't do that when they run.
On August 23 2013 04:54 upperbound wrote: Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
I didn't watch the replay (work) but I can already tell you that there's issues with your Varus from the first post you read about refusing to leash. One thing I would advise is being flexible enough to take a smite route. Leashing red from Blue side really fucks Diana. Basically she goes to lane and she's going to zoned level 2 on, get a huge wave built and pushed to your turret and their mid backs comes back with another dorans and gg to the lane. One thing you can do is actually smite red and just level 2 gank mid.
On August 23 2013 04:54 upperbound wrote: Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
Lemme be honest. I did my first pause at 15 min, because it got incredibly boring to watch how you played. Aside from the FB, you just roam around without committing to any fights, while farming with E max and 21/0/9. You seem awfully squishy, you can't really close the gap (or are afraid to do so) even though you maxed E and your choice of just going farm mode makes me think that you're afraid to fight. Getting to gank early on can sometimes be incredibly hard, but you keep trying from the same spot near mid over and over without even trying to gap-close. Hell at 15 min you're sitting on ancient golem+kindlegem without boots, no wonder you might feel abit useless when you don't optimize pre-game. Going 9/21/0 makes you extremely durable in jungle and it makes you durable during ganks aswell. Zac already clears fine, you don't need 21 offense, especially not as a "tanky jungler" (hell you took arp, what you thinking bro?!).
Changing the topic, i seem to have issues opening some replays. Some of them shut down after 5 seconds with the message "bug splat", however some seem to work fine.
On August 23 2013 04:54 upperbound wrote: Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
I didn't watch the replay (work) but I can already tell you that there's issues with your Varus from the first post you read about refusing to leash. One thing I would advise is being flexible enough to take a smite route. Leashing red from Blue side really fucks Diana. Basically you go to lane and you're going to zoned level 2 on, get a huge wave built and pushed to your turret and their mid backs comes back with another dorans and gg to the lane. One thing you can do is actually smite red and just level 2 gank mid.
Yeah my plan was to smite, but diana ignored my chat and kept leashing while typing at varus. I was gonna gank mid after blue, but top was in perfect position for a lane gank so I went gank top-> gank mid instead. To be honest the early game went really well, it was after that when the lanes fell behind and the nearby gank opportunities felt forced because we never even had vision on exhaust shyv.
On August 23 2013 04:54 upperbound wrote: Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
Lemme be honest. I did my first pause at 15 min, because it got incredibly boring to watch how you played. Aside from the FB, you just roam around without committing to any fights, while farming with E max and 21/0/9. You seem awfully squishy, you can't really close the gap (or are afraid to do so) even though you maxed E and your choice of just going farm mode makes me think that you're afraid to fight. Getting to gank early on can sometimes be incredibly hard, but you keep trying from the same spot near mid over and over without even trying to gap-close. Hell at 15 min you're sitting on ancient golem+kindlegem without boots, no wonder you might feel abit useless when you don't optimize pre-game. Going 9/21/0 makes you extremely durable in jungle and it makes you durable during ganks aswell. Zac already clears fine, you don't need 21 offense, especially not as a "tanky jungler" (hell you took arp, what you thinking bro?!).
Changing the topic, i seem to have issues opening some replays. Some of them shut down after 5 seconds with the message "bug splat", however some seem to work fine.
Sponkz I have some follow up questions and will edit when I get home. I know I farmed too mucg bur struggled to see good opportunities. Although I ran 9/21/0 with as reds, armore yellows, mr blues and ms quints, so I don't think that was the problem (I would run hybrid pen reds instead if I had another page).
I haven't played a game since so it's still the active one. It's pretty standard 9/21/0 with mpen and general tanky stats in the defensive tree.
I can see where you're getting armor pen from now, though, because apparently my brother switched my jungle page from 9x attack speed marks to 5x attack speed and 4x armor pen while he played a few games on my account to stop decay while I was on vacation (I originally expected to be gone for longer). This really shouldn't have made a huge difference, though, because they're jungle-clearing reds in either case and that wasn't the real problem here. If I was lacking tankiness, it was for reasons other than setup; maybe because I was spending so much time clearing jungle rather than in lanes.
2. Was there any time in particular that I should have committed to a gank that was available rather than keep farming? There were a couple of times that I wanted to gank mid, but I think TF knew I was there because he stayed outside of my jump range at all times. Should I still have forced it and gone in, despite it being impossible to hit my E?
3. Was there any real way that I could have helped bot given how far behind they fell and how little chemistry they seemed to have together (in addition to their poor play they argued all game)?
4. Should I have just camped top? I thought they serious gold/exp lead I gave Shen would have been enough, but then he decided to stay in lane instead of backing after we shoved to tower.
I'm just wondering if my overall mindset was bad or if there were certain decision points where I should have known to leave jungle to gank. Maybe I should have just walked into lanes instead of relying on finding a spot to hit Es.
On August 23 2013 04:54 upperbound wrote: Had a really tough time figuring out what to do in this game, and hoping to get some advice.
I'm playing Zac jungle. Diana falls behind early in mid due to leashing me for an extended period after Varus flatly says that he's not gonna leash me at red. She's about 3 minions behind in exp, but we get FB up top, and then blow TF's flash, so I think we're in good shape. Bot falls behind bigtime, and Varus refuses to commit to a gank, leaving Lux exposed and getting her killed, all while allowing Vayne to escape (Vayne also dodged my slingshot here, which hurt -- in retrospect, I might have saved it until after I initiated with Q to guarantee the knockup).
From here, there were very few gank opportunities. I kept looking to help mid and get Diana snowballing, but TF pushed so safely and so quickly, playing really smart without flash, that I had almost no chance to gank him. Bot fell too far behind, and I feared a countergank or just straight losing a 2v3 because Shyv was never visible on the map. Top's small advantage (I think Shen could have snowballed the lane a lot better and zoned Renek if he backed properly) got neutralized by several consecutive TF ults. We managed to sneak some objectives when they committed to certain parts of the map, but ultimately lost miserably.
I know I didn't spend my time optimally on the map, but I would love some help figuring out how to improve here. I finished 0-0-2 in a ~30 minute game. I ended up spending most of my time covering/farming, because I couldn't figure out what else to do. It also didn't really help that Varus was flaming people starting at like 1:30 and increasing as he fed.
Lemme be honest. I did my first pause at 15 min, because it got incredibly boring to watch how you played. Aside from the FB, you just roam around without committing to any fights, while farming with E max and 21/0/9. You seem awfully squishy, you can't really close the gap (or are afraid to do so) even though you maxed E and your choice of just going farm mode makes me think that you're afraid to fight. Getting to gank early on can sometimes be incredibly hard, but you keep trying from the same spot near mid over and over without even trying to gap-close. Hell at 15 min you're sitting on ancient golem+kindlegem without boots, no wonder you might feel abit useless when you don't optimize pre-game. Going 9/21/0 makes you extremely durable in jungle and it makes you durable during ganks aswell. Zac already clears fine, you don't need 21 offense, especially not as a "tanky jungler" (hell you took arp, what you thinking bro?!).
Changing the topic, i seem to have issues opening some replays. Some of them shut down after 5 seconds with the message "bug splat", however some seem to work fine.
Sponkz I have some follow up questions and will edit when I get home. I know I farmed too mucg bur struggled to see good opportunities. Although I ran 9/21/0 with as reds, armore yellows, mr blues and ms quints, so I don't think that was the problem (I would run hybrid pen reds instead if I had another page).
I haven't played a game since so it's still the active one. It's pretty standard 9/21/0 with mpen and general tanky stats in the defensive tree.
I can see where you're getting armor pen from now, though, because apparently my brother switched my jungle page from 9x attack speed marks to 5x attack speed and 4x armor pen while he played a few games on my account to stop decay while I was on vacation (I originally expected to be gone for longer). This really shouldn't have made a huge difference, though, because they're jungle-clearing reds in either case and that wasn't the real problem here. If I was lacking tankiness, it was for reasons other than setup; maybe because I was spending so much time clearing jungle rather than in lanes.
2. Was there any time in particular that I should have committed to a gank that was available rather than keep farming? There were a couple of times that I wanted to gank mid, but I think TF knew I was there because he stayed outside of my jump range at all times. Should I still have forced it and gone in, despite it being impossible to hit my E?
3. Was there any real way that I could have helped bot given how far behind they fell and how little chemistry they seemed to have together (in addition to their poor play they argued all game)?
4. Should I have just camped top? I thought they serious gold/exp lead I gave Shen would have been enough, but then he decided to stay in lane instead of backing after we shoved to tower.
I'm just wondering if my overall mindset was bad or if there were certain decision points where I should have known to leave jungle to gank. Maybe I should have just walked into lanes instead of relying on finding a spot to hit Es.
1. Yeah i got myself thinking real hard, cus i noticed the 5 arpen. Good thing we don't have to discuss that anymore
2. It's hard to say, generally going into heavy farm-mode just isn't an option. Look at how the lanes push and try different angles. If you think they are heavy warders (which they weren't really in the replay provided) you can also try and lane-gank or even counter-gank if their jungle is agressive.
3. Yes and no. After the FB, you could have gone straight to bot and tried forcing something. Zac's E range is absurd, and with some vision denying, it shouldnt be too hard (i think bot is easier to gank than mid/top as Zac, it all just depends on map control, allowing you to jump over the wall).
4. Better to camp 1 lane, than not to gank at all. Even though shen was running TP, renekton didn't really ward and was playing the usual "standing in the middle of the lane, while playing agressively". If the only choice is to camp one lane, do it.
So, other than me needing to work on my CS, can someone watch this replay and tell me where I made major mistakes? I know I got caught out in a couple of team fights, and in those situations I feel like it was due to lack of communication and wards than anything else.
Ok, since noone else has looked at it so far, i'll give you my feedback. I am a mid plat support, so take anything i say in that context, someone who is better then me might tell you different things that are more important.
The fuck is going on in this game. Why are you laning against a vayne that started ruby crystal? And why are you not punching her face in? Generally speaking, you are a bit too passive. You NEVER shoot at the enemy unless you absolutely have to. You take a lot of free harass because you allow vayne to hit you without hitting her back for no apparent reason. You shouldn't have anything to fear in that lane, especially considering vayne starting with a fucking ruby crystal. Just punch her. And dont stop punching her. You got sustain from dorans, she doesn't. Either Nami's sustain is worthless, or she is worthless in fights. That Nami decided to go for W max, telling you that she is a moron and will be about as useful as a caster minion in a fight as long as you dodge her bubble with E.
Don't let them build up a creepwave. Generally speaking, in botlane you want to push at lvl 1 to get lvl 2 first. Afterwards it is not that important, just don't let the enemy have 10 minions. Use your e to dodge bubbles, and you should win everything.
Also, as you said, your lasthitting is bad. You need to work on that. Try to avoid using your abilities to lasthit. Use them only for these three purposes : Pushing the lane(clearing waves), harassing the enemy, or in fights.
If you are pushed back to your tower like at ~4:30, shout at your support to ward that bush. (Unless they have a pink in it, in which case you are kinda fucked)
Nami doesn't even put points into her E, what is wrong with her.
I am pretty sure you should be maxing Q over W.
Don't get hit by bubbles under turret like at ~7:50, that turned a very good trade into a very bad one and nearly killed you. And was absolutely unnecessary.
I still don't know what vayne is planning to do with that ruby crystal. Your supports warding sucks. Also, tell her to allin their face at 6, there is absolutely no reason you are not doing that. You can do stuff like that while running to lane from base, something along the lines of "We got way stronger 6 then they do, and that nami is fucking retarded, try to go for fights whenever possible" Also, once again. Don't get hit by bubbles. You got your E. If you can't dodge them otherwise, save your E for that. That is the single most important thing in any fight. If you don't get hit by bubble, you destroy them.
You react pretty slowly when Leona starts fights, wasting a lot of opportunities like at ~13:30. And you are generally too far back. Try to stay on a line with your support, not half a screen behind him.
Even while being ganked, try to orbwalk backward (move-shoot-move-shoot). This allows you to make the whole thing dangerous for them, and can even turn a gank around. If you just runrunrun, there is never any danger for them, and they can often dive you easily.
Tell Leona to use her wardstone, in a friendly way.
In fights, shoot stuff. Look at ~19:08 for example. You spend 5 seconds in range of enemies just walking back and forth because you can't decide what to do.
If your team starts a stupid 3v5 fight like ~20:40, don't get involved. Just walk away. Don't fight vayne with your back to the wall either. Generally speaking, don't fight vayne 1v1 when her whole team is standing next to her, and you are 3v5. Just don't fight 3v5. Ping retreat and walk away. Opposite thing in 5v5s. Your whole team just ran away and got slaughtered in both fights, and i don't even see why you would do that. You hang around mid, and then you get engaged upon and die. But that is not something you alone could remedy. I can't see your team chat, but i assume it wasn't pretty.
The main point you could improve is your laning. You should have absolutely crushed that vayne nami lane, but you didn't, because you were too passive and had some irrational fear of fighting them when you were dorans lucian + leona vs RUBY CRYSTAL vayne and W max nami. Destroy them. You don't even need a support for that. Just shoot them. And continue shooting. Don't let them build a wave. Don't get hit by bubbles. If you are far ahead consider freezing the lane, if you have good long ranged harass or notice the enemy sucks at lasthitting under turret, push hard. If you have neither, try to equalize the lane in the middle and just fight them whenever they want to lasthit.
What could've I have done better in this game? I'm gold 3. Lee sin is my main jungler and sort of a crutch. I was already iffy about our chances to win with AD Twisted Fate and the all AD comp vs Rammus/Taric, but we started losing way before teamfights. as I mentioned in the IHS thread I counter jungle a lot. It's easy to pull off in gold, but rammus just brushed it off since he doesn't really need either red or blue to gank lanes.
From what I've seen main mistakes are taking as long as I did to get the FB on rammus because I tried to turn on singed with irelia and missed that my zed had rammus caught before he escaped with blue. Maybe we could've got a double on rammus/jayce if I hadn't tunnel visioned.
The 2nd gank at top on singed after Irelia got the tower was also pretty bad. We were already a bit over extended and I kicked Singed out of her ult because I was scared of rammus showing up, which he did and ended up getting the 2-0 on us.
Neglected my botlane. I'm not quite sure why they fell behind by so much, the one time I showed up botlane sona didn't keep lucian in lane so I wasted time, map prescense and a pink ward whilel he went B.
The last main mistake I saw was chasing lucian at the very end. TBH I felt the game was already over at that point and I just wanted to get the shutdown. I tried to pull off a ward jump to kill him but ran out of energy for W. What did I do wrong in terms of managing my gank presence? Spent too much top? wasted my time counter jungling rammus? Didn't help bot enough? Basically. How am I supposed to play with this teamcomp? Try to snowball zed? Shut down singed? support the AD tf lane? I'm really lost as to what I did significantly wrong throught the game that lost us the early lead.
Ok, since noone else has looked at it so far, i'll give you my feedback. I am a mid plat support, so take anything i say in that context, someone who is better then me might tell you different things that are more important.
The fuck is going on in this game. Why are you laning against a vayne that started ruby crystal? And why are you not punching her face in? Generally speaking, you are a bit too passive. You NEVER shoot at the enemy unless you absolutely have to. You take a lot of free harass because you allow vayne to hit you without hitting her back for no apparent reason. You shouldn't have anything to fear in that lane, especially considering vayne starting with a fucking ruby crystal. Just punch her. And dont stop punching her. You got sustain from dorans, she doesn't. Either Nami's sustain is worthless, or she is worthless in fights. That Nami decided to go for W max, telling you that she is a moron and will be about as useful as a caster minion in a fight as long as you dodge her bubble with E.
Don't let them build up a creepwave. Generally speaking, in botlane you want to push at lvl 1 to get lvl 2 first. Afterwards it is not that important, just don't let the enemy have 10 minions. Use your e to dodge bubbles, and you should win everything.
Also, as you said, your lasthitting is bad. You need to work on that. Try to avoid using your abilities to lasthit. Use them only for these three purposes : Pushing the lane(clearing waves), harassing the enemy, or in fights.
If you are pushed back to your tower like at ~4:30, shout at your support to ward that bush. (Unless they have a pink in it, in which case you are kinda fucked)
Nami doesn't even put points into her E, what is wrong with her.
I am pretty sure you should be maxing Q over W.
Don't get hit by bubbles under turret like at ~7:50, that turned a very good trade into a very bad one and nearly killed you. And was absolutely unnecessary.
I still don't know what vayne is planning to do with that ruby crystal. Your supports warding sucks. Also, tell her to allin their face at 6, there is absolutely no reason you are not doing that. You can do stuff like that while running to lane from base, something along the lines of "We got way stronger 6 then they do, and that nami is fucking retarded, try to go for fights whenever possible" Also, once again. Don't get hit by bubbles. You got your E. If you can't dodge them otherwise, save your E for that. That is the single most important thing in any fight. If you don't get hit by bubble, you destroy them.
You react pretty slowly when Leona starts fights, wasting a lot of opportunities like at ~13:30. And you are generally too far back. Try to stay on a line with your support, not half a screen behind him.
Even while being ganked, try to orbwalk backward (move-shoot-move-shoot). This allows you to make the whole thing dangerous for them, and can even turn a gank around. If you just runrunrun, there is never any danger for them, and they can often dive you easily.
Tell Leona to use her wardstone, in a friendly way.
In fights, shoot stuff. Look at ~19:08 for example. You spend 5 seconds in range of enemies just walking back and forth because you can't decide what to do.
If your team starts a stupid 3v5 fight like ~20:40, don't get involved. Just walk away. Don't fight vayne with your back to the wall either. Generally speaking, don't fight vayne 1v1 when her whole team is standing next to her, and you are 3v5. Just don't fight 3v5. Ping retreat and walk away. Opposite thing in 5v5s. Your whole team just ran away and got slaughtered in both fights, and i don't even see why you would do that. You hang around mid, and then you get engaged upon and die. But that is not something you alone could remedy. I can't see your team chat, but i assume it wasn't pretty.
The main point you could improve is your laning. You should have absolutely crushed that vayne nami lane, but you didn't, because you were too passive and had some irrational fear of fighting them when you were dorans lucian + leona vs RUBY CRYSTAL vayne and W max nami. Destroy them. You don't even need a support for that. Just shoot them. And continue shooting. Don't let them build a wave. Don't get hit by bubbles. If you are far ahead consider freezing the lane, if you have good long ranged harass or notice the enemy sucks at lasthitting under turret, push hard. If you have neither, try to equalize the lane in the middle and just fight them whenever they want to lasthit.
So I should have been more aggressive with seeing the Ruby Crystal start, and in general just make my presence felt in lane.
In terms of my last hitting, it varies wildly and is something I'm trying to constantly work on, but my current target goals of CS is 70 by minute 10, 100 by minute 13, and 150 by minute 20.
In terms of slow reaction time I think that's more-so to do with either getting flustered or camera placement; I often let my camera free roam and don't lock it onto my champion, though I'm trying to get better with it and lock onto myself during a fight so I can see easily.
And as for Lucian I'm still trying to learn how his skill maxing goes; my thought was to max W first then Q because of the movement speed bonus I get whenever I fire off my W and AA a marked target, so I could either chase or run away easier. But it might just be that maxing Q is better for him, or it's a situational thing that I will need to decide upon when I figure out who I'm laning against, and how they've bought their items.
That is not exclusive to the Ruby crystal (but that one should prompt you to be even more aggressive. A Ruby start is basically the same as starting with one single pot, and nothing else).
The way your lane went most of the time was that you hung back to CS, vayne moved up, shot you once or twice, you ran backwards, trade end. However, you are Lucian, she is vayne. You got a Leona, she got a nami maxing W. This means that you win any allin (as long as you don't get hit by bubble). Hard. So if she shoots you, shoot back until she runs away crying. And if she does not shoot you, shoot her when she wants to CS. I think the basic combo with Lucian is something like AA-Q-doubleAA.
Free camera is better then locked, i think pretty much anyone agrees with that. Just place it in a way that you see everything interesting that is going on in lane.
You gain the speed boost from W as long as you put a single point into it, and Q should be a lot easier to hit and has a lower CD, while gaining the same 40 points of damage per level. Also you can use Q to harass, while W is blocked by minions if i am not completely mistaken.
Basically, what i think is happening is that you don't know if you would win or lose fights, so you try to avoid them. While that might sometimes be better in the short run, it is almost always worse in the long run, since if you don't try to fight fights, you will never learn which ones you win and which ones you lose, meaning you will at best go even in lane. From my current understanding, Lucian kind of needs to win lane/midgame fights, since his late isn't that glorious, but his early/mid are pretty strong to enable that. This might be completely wrong, he isn't out for a long time yet, and i only learn stuff about him from watching since i don't play AD.
[QUOTE]On August 27 2013 17:43 Kinie wrote: [QUOTE]On August 26 2013 19:12 Simberto wrote:
In terms of my last hitting, it varies wildly and is something I'm trying to constantly work on, but my current target goals of CS is 70 by minute 10, 100 by minute 13, and 150 by minute 20.
In terms of slow reaction time I think that's more-so to do with either getting flustered or camera placement; I often let my camera free roam and don't lock it onto my champion, though I'm trying to get better with it and lock onto myself during a fight so I can see easily. [/QUOTE]
2 things I can suggest.
1. Don't worry so much about hitting CS goals, just last hit the best you can and it will improve. I used to warm up in a 1v1 bot game for 10 minutes before playing ranked.
2. Do you use spacebar to centre your camera? I randomly hit (and hold) spacebar throughout the game so I can flick my camera elsewhere but quickly come back to my hero.
[QUOTE]On August 28 2013 09:33 miicah wrote: [QUOTE]On August 27 2013 17:43 Kinie wrote: [QUOTE]On August 26 2013 19:12 Simberto wrote:
In terms of my last hitting, it varies wildly and is something I'm trying to constantly work on, but my current target goals of CS is 70 by minute 10, 100 by minute 13, and 150 by minute 20.
In terms of slow reaction time I think that's more-so to do with either getting flustered or camera placement; I often let my camera free roam and don't lock it onto my champion, though I'm trying to get better with it and lock onto myself during a fight so I can see easily. [/QUOTE]
2 things I can suggest.
1. Don't worry so much about hitting CS goals, just last hit the best you can and it will improve. I used to warm up in a 1v1 bot game for 10 minutes before playing ranked.
2. Do you use spacebar to centre your camera? I randomly hit (and hold) spacebar throughout the game so I can flick my camera elsewhere but quickly come back to my hero.[/QUOTE]
I just click on the minimap and move it around manually by mousing over the corners, and I think I have my "center camera on champion" key bound to my T, dunno if spacebar does the same thing or not.
I'm trying to improve my jungle play and it was really hard to snowball this game. I started 6-1 on Lee Sin, only dying because my Ryze is 100% blind and didn't come down to drag to engage a winning fight.
I "threw" by baiting my team when I pressed a second Q when I meant to check items with tab. Big plays. We were already losing control of the game before this, though. It was really hard to get my team to group for objectives, and even pushing mid was a chore because of how long Jarvan stayed top and some of the fights that got engaged with people out of position.
Picked riven mid, but 4th pick locked in annie and told me I was jungle. So not a really good riven jungler or riven in general. Top lost and didnt want to play top anymore so I took over top. I know I died a lot, and missed a lot of q over walls (im terrible at them), more looking about where i should have been on the map at certain time. I never feel like im doing the right thing. Thanks.
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Lene0Oj.jpg)
