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United States15536 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:On January 16 2013 01:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2013 00:25 justiceknight wrote:saw this on Westdoor's stream regarding TPS.Mistake's words regarding Jiji became a sub,any1 can translate? pic + Show Spoiler + In short, he read jiji's post as that jiji stepped down because all of the fanboy chatter got to him, but jiji explicitly said that losing confidence was more because of teammates. Lillballz talks about how dangerous the spin/chatter/shittalk by fans of esports can be in general. Not sure what the right terminology is, but the voices of fans can be and is damaging in every sport to its players. Players are also especially close to their fans in esports, and esports fans may even be more nasty with their opinions than the average sports fan. I feel like it's a fan's duty to maintain a certain sense of respect for players as an homage to basic human decency. No matter how badly a pro player performs, they devoted a huge deal of time to the game we all love. I'm sure that in every situation, no one wants the player to perform well more than himself. Now's a good time as any to bring up the topic of criticizing pro players. In the BW days, whenever someone got stomped on stream during a PL match, it was as entertaining to see as a team getting destroyed in league. But one big difference I notice is that BW fans were much more aware of the skill gap between someone who could play a Korean televised BW game and the average BW player, much more so than the regular LoL fan has the same awareness, and respect for the skill gap between him and pro LoL players. I feel that, the culture of LoL fanboyism is that of an amateur one. The commentators only provide basic analysis. An overwhelming portion of league players do not play to improve. But the game is made in such a way that skill is not always immediately apparent to the observer. Again sorry to bring up BW again, but for example, just by a round of muta harass you can tell roughly someone's rank on iccup, while in LoL, people 500 elo apart can have roughly the same cs in lane after 10min depending on matchup. All of this leads to what I believe to be an excessive amount of uninformed opinions about the game in general, from item builds to judgment of pro players. Uninformed opinions include straight up unknowingly uninformed opinions by the well intentioned to fanboy shittalk. While I have no duty or interest in defending every pro player from slander, I am however very often very annoyed by dumb comments posted on this forum that I have to skip while browsing. If you don't feel like pro players deserve some courtesy when being criticized for their play then I guess this post won't change anything. If you feel like your opinions are genuinely informed, please think it over again then post. This has nothing to do with criticizing progamers for anything outside of their gameplay. Here's basically where I'm coming from. I try to watch a lot of pro games, and do watch most NA tourney games and EU games, maybe I'm ridiculously bad at understanding streamed games, but I feel like I can't attribute a lot if any qualifies to 90% of players. People say that jiji is passive? If I never read that, I probably wouldn't have formed that opinion myself. When it comes to jungling, the role I main, I can safely estimate that I don't understand half of the jungling decisions made during laning phase of any tourney level game. All of which brings the question, how the fuck do other people do it? People analyze pro LoL games as if it's the NBA. When I read a tourney thread I honestly don't know where people get most of their assumptions from. So then there's the other possibility, that most people don't know what they're talking about, but rather say something rather than nothing. They recycle opinions from others, elaborate on blatant misconceptions, make bold but ambiguous judgments, etc.This is all true for commentators, but I really hope TLers do less of this than commentators. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like the case. I guess my only question then is what you would like the casters to do instead? They're attempting to analyze the game because people find that knowledge entertaining; it's their job to. I'll totally agree that it's our job as fans to A) Understand we don't know what the pros are doing or why, B) Attempt to answer that question ourselves in an intelligent manner before casting aspersions, C) Make our own calls on why these things are occurring and assess what we think their effect on the game was (good or bad), D) ONLY make commentary based on that (because we're on a forum; we're here to discuss), and E) Above all respect the players because they're the ones providing us with the opportunity to have this fun in the first place. It's just that casters have 5 seconds to do all of it. =/ Sucky, for sure, but there's not much that can be done. I guess it just gives us an additional incentive to make our own judgments. The caster's job is overall to entertain rather than inform: they can make (perhaps) decent guesses, but it's entirely probably that they'll be wrong. I think everything to be said about casters has been said but just going off of watching the LCS this past weekend, there were a lot of obvious observations that were either missed or ignored in favor of irrelevant information. To provide a simple commentary of anything, you have to have a professional's understanding. High school science books are written by professors rather than students. Also I think it's hilarious that people like montecristo gives "analysis" that's respected. The painfully obvious question is on what grounds does he assume to be an authority on LoL knowledge? Similar to riotjaws, to whoever else, etc. I thought kobe24 did a nice job even though I'm not sure if he still plays anymore and he hasn't played at a high level in forever.
Which casters do you like? Any? Jatt? (He best fits your requirements)
You're right, the caster talk has been done to death. And I don't think that anyone disagrees that casters will be best when the first wave of truly high-level players retires. I guess we just have to take what we can get for now, along with our grains of salt.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:On January 16 2013 01:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2013 00:25 justiceknight wrote:saw this on Westdoor's stream regarding TPS.Mistake's words regarding Jiji became a sub,any1 can translate? pic + Show Spoiler + In short, he read jiji's post as that jiji stepped down because all of the fanboy chatter got to him, but jiji explicitly said that losing confidence was more because of teammates. Lillballz talks about how dangerous the spin/chatter/shittalk by fans of esports can be in general. Not sure what the right terminology is, but the voices of fans can be and is damaging in every sport to its players. Players are also especially close to their fans in esports, and esports fans may even be more nasty with their opinions than the average sports fan. I feel like it's a fan's duty to maintain a certain sense of respect for players as an homage to basic human decency. No matter how badly a pro player performs, they devoted a huge deal of time to the game we all love. I'm sure that in every situation, no one wants the player to perform well more than himself. Now's a good time as any to bring up the topic of criticizing pro players. In the BW days, whenever someone got stomped on stream during a PL match, it was as entertaining to see as a team getting destroyed in league. But one big difference I notice is that BW fans were much more aware of the skill gap between someone who could play a Korean televised BW game and the average BW player, much more so than the regular LoL fan has the same awareness, and respect for the skill gap between him and pro LoL players. I feel that, the culture of LoL fanboyism is that of an amateur one. The commentators only provide basic analysis. An overwhelming portion of league players do not play to improve. But the game is made in such a way that skill is not always immediately apparent to the observer. Again sorry to bring up BW again, but for example, just by a round of muta harass you can tell roughly someone's rank on iccup, while in LoL, people 500 elo apart can have roughly the same cs in lane after 10min depending on matchup. All of this leads to what I believe to be an excessive amount of uninformed opinions about the game in general, from item builds to judgment of pro players. Uninformed opinions include straight up unknowingly uninformed opinions by the well intentioned to fanboy shittalk. While I have no duty or interest in defending every pro player from slander, I am however very often very annoyed by dumb comments posted on this forum that I have to skip while browsing. If you don't feel like pro players deserve some courtesy when being criticized for their play then I guess this post won't change anything. If you feel like your opinions are genuinely informed, please think it over again then post. This has nothing to do with criticizing progamers for anything outside of their gameplay. Here's basically where I'm coming from. I try to watch a lot of pro games, and do watch most NA tourney games and EU games, maybe I'm ridiculously bad at understanding streamed games, but I feel like I can't attribute a lot if any qualifies to 90% of players. People say that jiji is passive? If I never read that, I probably wouldn't have formed that opinion myself. When it comes to jungling, the role I main, I can safely estimate that I don't understand half of the jungling decisions made during laning phase of any tourney level game. All of which brings the question, how the fuck do other people do it? People analyze pro LoL games as if it's the NBA. When I read a tourney thread I honestly don't know where people get most of their assumptions from. So then there's the other possibility, that most people don't know what they're talking about, but rather say something rather than nothing. They recycle opinions from others, elaborate on blatant misconceptions, make bold but ambiguous judgments, etc.This is all true for commentators, but I really hope TLers do less of this than commentators. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like the case. I guess my only question then is what you would like the casters to do instead? They're attempting to analyze the game because people find that knowledge entertaining; it's their job to. I'll totally agree that it's our job as fans to A) Understand we don't know what the pros are doing or why, B) Attempt to answer that question ourselves in an intelligent manner before casting aspersions, C) Make our own calls on why these things are occurring and assess what we think their effect on the game was (good or bad), D) ONLY make commentary based on that (because we're on a forum; we're here to discuss), and E) Above all respect the players because they're the ones providing us with the opportunity to have this fun in the first place. It's just that casters have 5 seconds to do all of it. =/ Sucky, for sure, but there's not much that can be done. I guess it just gives us an additional incentive to make our own judgments. The caster's job is overall to entertain rather than inform: they can make (perhaps) decent guesses, but it's entirely probably that they'll be wrong. I think everything to be said about casters has been said but just going off of watching the LCS this past weekend, there were a lot of obvious observations that were either missed or ignored in favor of irrelevant information. To provide a simple commentary of anything, you have to have a professional's understanding. High school science books are written by professors rather than students. Also I think it's hilarious that people like montecristo gives "analysis" that's respected. The painfully obvious question is on what grounds does he assume to be an authority on LoL knowledge? Similar to riotjaws, to whoever else, etc. I thought kobe24 did a nice job even though I'm not sure if he still plays anymore and he hasn't played at a high level in forever.
But what people respect about Kobe is the fact that he has played at a high level before and it brings a fresh perspective from someone who's succeeded at the top level before. They might not necessarily be the best players still, but being able to relay some of their experiences and apply that to the current era of League games is better than what we've got. Would you rather have Rivington (who knows absolutely nothing) or Kobe give you insight on what a player's decision making in game might be? It's what makes Jatt a better caster than all the OptimusToms and the Jaws and HatPersons.
And since professional players won't ever commentate while trying to play professionally, the Jatts and Kobes of the world are what we're gonna have to live with because they're the best we've got. If that's what you're looking for at least.
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On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol.
Elo police?
Nope. It's a Zhonya armour nerf that's implied here to me. I don't want that, Zhonya covers both the armour needs of a lot AP champs in a mid-late game perspective, and the active. If I had to buy zhonya only for the active (and maybe AP, depending on how it's done) then it loses a huge appeal and "coreness" to me.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police?
After playing like a billion games of pretty much just Draven, Destiny's actually been able to get himself to a decent level of play (1900 last I checked?). I know it's amazing, but I think something finally clicked with him, cause he used to be fucking god awful.
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On January 16 2013 02:25 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police? After playing like a billion games of pretty much just Draven, Destiny's actually been able to get himself to a decent level of play (1900 last I checked?). I know it's amazing, but I think something finally clicked with him, cause he used to be fucking god awful.
All of those troll lessons from liftlift.
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Glad to see Link gets a shot at a starting role... now some team needs to snap up Nien.
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On January 16 2013 02:19 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:On January 16 2013 02:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:On January 16 2013 01:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2013 00:25 justiceknight wrote:saw this on Westdoor's stream regarding TPS.Mistake's words regarding Jiji became a sub,any1 can translate? pic + Show Spoiler + In short, he read jiji's post as that jiji stepped down because all of the fanboy chatter got to him, but jiji explicitly said that losing confidence was more because of teammates. Lillballz talks about how dangerous the spin/chatter/shittalk by fans of esports can be in general. Not sure what the right terminology is, but the voices of fans can be and is damaging in every sport to its players. Players are also especially close to their fans in esports, and esports fans may even be more nasty with their opinions than the average sports fan. I feel like it's a fan's duty to maintain a certain sense of respect for players as an homage to basic human decency. No matter how badly a pro player performs, they devoted a huge deal of time to the game we all love. I'm sure that in every situation, no one wants the player to perform well more than himself. Now's a good time as any to bring up the topic of criticizing pro players. In the BW days, whenever someone got stomped on stream during a PL match, it was as entertaining to see as a team getting destroyed in league. But one big difference I notice is that BW fans were much more aware of the skill gap between someone who could play a Korean televised BW game and the average BW player, much more so than the regular LoL fan has the same awareness, and respect for the skill gap between him and pro LoL players. I feel that, the culture of LoL fanboyism is that of an amateur one. The commentators only provide basic analysis. An overwhelming portion of league players do not play to improve. But the game is made in such a way that skill is not always immediately apparent to the observer. Again sorry to bring up BW again, but for example, just by a round of muta harass you can tell roughly someone's rank on iccup, while in LoL, people 500 elo apart can have roughly the same cs in lane after 10min depending on matchup. All of this leads to what I believe to be an excessive amount of uninformed opinions about the game in general, from item builds to judgment of pro players. Uninformed opinions include straight up unknowingly uninformed opinions by the well intentioned to fanboy shittalk. While I have no duty or interest in defending every pro player from slander, I am however very often very annoyed by dumb comments posted on this forum that I have to skip while browsing. If you don't feel like pro players deserve some courtesy when being criticized for their play then I guess this post won't change anything. If you feel like your opinions are genuinely informed, please think it over again then post. This has nothing to do with criticizing progamers for anything outside of their gameplay. Here's basically where I'm coming from. I try to watch a lot of pro games, and do watch most NA tourney games and EU games, maybe I'm ridiculously bad at understanding streamed games, but I feel like I can't attribute a lot if any qualifies to 90% of players. People say that jiji is passive? If I never read that, I probably wouldn't have formed that opinion myself. When it comes to jungling, the role I main, I can safely estimate that I don't understand half of the jungling decisions made during laning phase of any tourney level game. All of which brings the question, how the fuck do other people do it? People analyze pro LoL games as if it's the NBA. When I read a tourney thread I honestly don't know where people get most of their assumptions from. So then there's the other possibility, that most people don't know what they're talking about, but rather say something rather than nothing. They recycle opinions from others, elaborate on blatant misconceptions, make bold but ambiguous judgments, etc.This is all true for commentators, but I really hope TLers do less of this than commentators. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like the case. I guess my only question then is what you would like the casters to do instead? They're attempting to analyze the game because people find that knowledge entertaining; it's their job to. I'll totally agree that it's our job as fans to A) Understand we don't know what the pros are doing or why, B) Attempt to answer that question ourselves in an intelligent manner before casting aspersions, C) Make our own calls on why these things are occurring and assess what we think their effect on the game was (good or bad), D) ONLY make commentary based on that (because we're on a forum; we're here to discuss), and E) Above all respect the players because they're the ones providing us with the opportunity to have this fun in the first place. It's just that casters have 5 seconds to do all of it. =/ Sucky, for sure, but there's not much that can be done. I guess it just gives us an additional incentive to make our own judgments. The caster's job is overall to entertain rather than inform: they can make (perhaps) decent guesses, but it's entirely probably that they'll be wrong. I think everything to be said about casters has been said but just going off of watching the LCS this past weekend, there were a lot of obvious observations that were either missed or ignored in favor of irrelevant information. To provide a simple commentary of anything, you have to have a professional's understanding. High school science books are written by professors rather than students. Also I think it's hilarious that people like montecristo gives "analysis" that's respected. The painfully obvious question is on what grounds does he assume to be an authority on LoL knowledge? Similar to riotjaws, to whoever else, etc. I thought kobe24 did a nice job even though I'm not sure if he still plays anymore and he hasn't played at a high level in forever. But what people respect about Kobe is the fact that he has played at a high level before and it brings a fresh perspective from someone who's succeeded at the top level before. They might not necessarily be the best players still, but being able to relay some of their experiences and apply that to the current era of League games is better than what we've got. Would you rather have Rivington (who knows absolutely nothing) or Kobe give you insight on what a player's decision making in game might be? It's what makes Jatt a better caster than all the OptimusToms and the Jaws and HatPersons. And since professional players won't ever commentate while trying to play professionally, the Jatts and Kobes of the world are what we're gonna have to live with because they're the best we've got. If that's what you're looking for at least.
This is true, but there are also high elo players who understand just as much, although they'd probably be too busy playing too and may not be as charismatic. Anyway I think we should talk about general opinions on pro players and pro games more. I'm gonna try to do a detailed battle report type post on a recent game and detail out everything that people think they understand but actually have no way of knowing.
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On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police? Nope. It's a Zhonya armour nerf that's implied here to me. I don't want that, Zhonya covers both the armour needs of a lot AP champs in a mid-late game perspective, and the active. If I had to buy zhonya only for the active (and maybe AP, depending on how it's done) then it loses a huge appeal and "coreness" to me.
Also, its mostly just a bandaid for the real problem of physical mids being too bursty AND too sustainy.
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On January 16 2013 02:27 Dgiese wrote:
Glad to see Link gets a shot at a starting role... now some team needs to snap up Nien.
I have heard rumors that he's gunning for Cop's spot
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On January 16 2013 02:25 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police? After playing like a billion games of pretty much just Draven, Destiny's actually been able to get himself to a decent level of play (1900 last I checked?). I know it's amazing, but I think something finally clicked with him, cause he used to be fucking god awful.
Been watching him for a long time, his decision making is sometimes questionable but he is actually quite good at cs'ing (compared to others at/near his elo at least) so he is often able to carry if the game lasts long enough, even if he has a negative KDA ratio. Almost always playing with a duo support partner doesn't hurt either.
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On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police? Nope. It's a Zhonya armour nerf that's implied here to me. I don't want that, Zhonya covers both the armour needs of a lot AP champs in a mid-late game perspective, and the active. If I had to buy zhonya only for the active (and maybe AP, depending on how it's done) then it loses a huge appeal and "coreness" to me.
I would absolutely love if you could just buy the zhonya active for cheap like a QSS without all those stats, thats all I want it for. It makes it a huge pain to build compared to other items if you feel you want it earlyer because its so expensive. I play really mana hungry mids so its very painful to build it before I have a solid mana supply, and delays dcap annoyingly, especially if the armor isn't needed.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 16 2013 02:28 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:19 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 02:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:On January 16 2013 02:02 AsmodeusXI wrote:On January 16 2013 01:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 16 2013 00:25 justiceknight wrote:saw this on Westdoor's stream regarding TPS.Mistake's words regarding Jiji became a sub,any1 can translate? pic + Show Spoiler + In short, he read jiji's post as that jiji stepped down because all of the fanboy chatter got to him, but jiji explicitly said that losing confidence was more because of teammates. Lillballz talks about how dangerous the spin/chatter/shittalk by fans of esports can be in general. Not sure what the right terminology is, but the voices of fans can be and is damaging in every sport to its players. Players are also especially close to their fans in esports, and esports fans may even be more nasty with their opinions than the average sports fan. I feel like it's a fan's duty to maintain a certain sense of respect for players as an homage to basic human decency. No matter how badly a pro player performs, they devoted a huge deal of time to the game we all love. I'm sure that in every situation, no one wants the player to perform well more than himself. Now's a good time as any to bring up the topic of criticizing pro players. In the BW days, whenever someone got stomped on stream during a PL match, it was as entertaining to see as a team getting destroyed in league. But one big difference I notice is that BW fans were much more aware of the skill gap between someone who could play a Korean televised BW game and the average BW player, much more so than the regular LoL fan has the same awareness, and respect for the skill gap between him and pro LoL players. I feel that, the culture of LoL fanboyism is that of an amateur one. The commentators only provide basic analysis. An overwhelming portion of league players do not play to improve. But the game is made in such a way that skill is not always immediately apparent to the observer. Again sorry to bring up BW again, but for example, just by a round of muta harass you can tell roughly someone's rank on iccup, while in LoL, people 500 elo apart can have roughly the same cs in lane after 10min depending on matchup. All of this leads to what I believe to be an excessive amount of uninformed opinions about the game in general, from item builds to judgment of pro players. Uninformed opinions include straight up unknowingly uninformed opinions by the well intentioned to fanboy shittalk. While I have no duty or interest in defending every pro player from slander, I am however very often very annoyed by dumb comments posted on this forum that I have to skip while browsing. If you don't feel like pro players deserve some courtesy when being criticized for their play then I guess this post won't change anything. If you feel like your opinions are genuinely informed, please think it over again then post. This has nothing to do with criticizing progamers for anything outside of their gameplay. Here's basically where I'm coming from. I try to watch a lot of pro games, and do watch most NA tourney games and EU games, maybe I'm ridiculously bad at understanding streamed games, but I feel like I can't attribute a lot if any qualifies to 90% of players. People say that jiji is passive? If I never read that, I probably wouldn't have formed that opinion myself. When it comes to jungling, the role I main, I can safely estimate that I don't understand half of the jungling decisions made during laning phase of any tourney level game. All of which brings the question, how the fuck do other people do it? People analyze pro LoL games as if it's the NBA. When I read a tourney thread I honestly don't know where people get most of their assumptions from. So then there's the other possibility, that most people don't know what they're talking about, but rather say something rather than nothing. They recycle opinions from others, elaborate on blatant misconceptions, make bold but ambiguous judgments, etc.This is all true for commentators, but I really hope TLers do less of this than commentators. But unfortunately it doesn't seem like the case. I guess my only question then is what you would like the casters to do instead? They're attempting to analyze the game because people find that knowledge entertaining; it's their job to. I'll totally agree that it's our job as fans to A) Understand we don't know what the pros are doing or why, B) Attempt to answer that question ourselves in an intelligent manner before casting aspersions, C) Make our own calls on why these things are occurring and assess what we think their effect on the game was (good or bad), D) ONLY make commentary based on that (because we're on a forum; we're here to discuss), and E) Above all respect the players because they're the ones providing us with the opportunity to have this fun in the first place. It's just that casters have 5 seconds to do all of it. =/ Sucky, for sure, but there's not much that can be done. I guess it just gives us an additional incentive to make our own judgments. The caster's job is overall to entertain rather than inform: they can make (perhaps) decent guesses, but it's entirely probably that they'll be wrong. I think everything to be said about casters has been said but just going off of watching the LCS this past weekend, there were a lot of obvious observations that were either missed or ignored in favor of irrelevant information. To provide a simple commentary of anything, you have to have a professional's understanding. High school science books are written by professors rather than students. Also I think it's hilarious that people like montecristo gives "analysis" that's respected. The painfully obvious question is on what grounds does he assume to be an authority on LoL knowledge? Similar to riotjaws, to whoever else, etc. I thought kobe24 did a nice job even though I'm not sure if he still plays anymore and he hasn't played at a high level in forever. But what people respect about Kobe is the fact that he has played at a high level before and it brings a fresh perspective from someone who's succeeded at the top level before. They might not necessarily be the best players still, but being able to relay some of their experiences and apply that to the current era of League games is better than what we've got. Would you rather have Rivington (who knows absolutely nothing) or Kobe give you insight on what a player's decision making in game might be? It's what makes Jatt a better caster than all the OptimusToms and the Jaws and HatPersons. And since professional players won't ever commentate while trying to play professionally, the Jatts and Kobes of the world are what we're gonna have to live with because they're the best we've got. If that's what you're looking for at least. This is true, but there are also high elo players who understand just as much, although they'd probably be too busy playing too and may not be as charismatic. Anyway I think we should talk about general opinions on pro players and pro games more. I'm gonna try to do a detailed battle report type post on a recent game and detail out everything that people think they understand but actually have no way of knowing.
Ya, high elo players right now would probably be the best, but since the LCS came out, almost everyone good enough to play at an amateur or professional level is on a team and probably doesn't have the time to devote to casting regularly. Now in comes someone like a Weatherman or a Kobe who have both played professionally before, are still decent enough players with good enough game knowledge, and have charisma, and are articulate, educated people (Dan might be cutting it close). There are some great players out there, but being able to articulate and commentate why people made great plays isn't easy to find. We're just lucky to have players who have been there before that happen to be good enough commentators.
On January 16 2013 02:47 rhs408 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 02:25 Roffles wrote:On January 16 2013 02:23 Alaric wrote:On January 15 2013 14:18 IMoperator wrote:
Shake is on Destiny's stream atm lol. Elo police? After playing like a billion games of pretty much just Draven, Destiny's actually been able to get himself to a decent level of play (1900 last I checked?). I know it's amazing, but I think something finally clicked with him, cause he used to be fucking god awful. Been watching him for a long time, his decision making is sometimes questionable but he is actually quite good at cs'ing (compared to others at/near his elo at least) so he is often able to carry if the game lasts long enough, even if he has a negative KDA ratio. Almost always playing with a duo support partner doesn't hurt either.
He still sucks on anything besides Draven. His last hitting mechanics are ass and he generally plays like a dumbass, and only looks good because he gets a free BF sword on his Q.
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Do you guys think competitive bans should be increased to 4 or 5 per team?
I kind of like seeing teams target ban certain players and adjust to the "OP" champs.
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Wow destiny is 1900 elo? is he playing solo or Duo with a high level player?
I guess he takes "playing 1 champ to climb elo" a bit too literally haha but wow ~750 gmes in 2months. Well he streams for a living I guess.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 16 2013 03:00 Mondeezy wrote:
Do you guys think competitive bans should be increased to 4 or 5 per team?
I kind of like seeing teams target ban certain players and adjust to the "OP" champs.
This is going to spark a discussion of two-phase bans again, which we do not need to have again.
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On January 16 2013 03:02 AsnSensation wrote:
Wow destiny is 1900 elo? is he playing solo or Duo with a high level player?
I guess he takes "playing 1 champ to climb elo" a bit too literally haha but wow ~750 gmes in 2months. Well he streams for a living I guess.
Being able to say "I played the most Draven games in s3 in the world" is a decent selling point for his stream too.
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On January 16 2013 03:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 03:00 Mondeezy wrote:
Do you guys think competitive bans should be increased to 4 or 5 per team?
I kind of like seeing teams target ban certain players and adjust to the "OP" champs. This is going to spark a discussion of two-phase bans again, which we do not need to have again.
Sadly I'm not familiar with that term. I was just curious as to if anyone else enjoyed the champ variety this past weekend as well as how the teams adjusted.
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Yeh I watched him and Categorist duo a bit yesterday; essentially his Draven has gotten pretty good, but he can play absolutely nothing else even close to that level currently.
On the subject of casters, while I do agree the ex-pros are the ones who will be giving the best analysis, that does not mean that those who study and learn just as much about the game despite not being able to play on that level can't do so.
(See MB/Neo/LoL subforum staff analysis)
None of these guys are pro players yet their post-game analysis and summaries are among the best around currently, and unrivaled.
I dunno bly, you and I definitely disagree on this point and probably will continue to do so. You make some valid points but I just don't agree that no one can commentate on high level play unless they themselves play at a high level.
(Note: I do not speak for my own casting and analysis ability, which is known to be shit.)
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i dont have the right to ban anyone from commentating, i'm just stating the opinion that if you don't play at a high level, you won't understand a lot of what is going on, I think that should be an obvious point. Studying/watching games is not the same as playing it. If you disagree with this point then only experience can change your perspective.
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United States15536 Posts
On January 16 2013 03:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeh I watched him and Categorist duo a bit yesterday; essentially his Draven has gotten pretty good, but he can play absolutely nothing else even close to that level currently.
On the subject of casters, while I do agree the ex-pros are the ones who will be giving the best analysis, that does not mean that those who study and learn just as much about the game despite not being able to play on that level can't do so.
(See MB/Neo/LoL subforum staff analysis)
None of these guys are pro players yet their post-game analysis and summaries are among the best around currently, and unrivaled.
I dunno bly, you and I definitely disagree on this point and probably will continue to do so. You make some valid points but I just don't agree that no one can commentate on high level play unless they themselves play at a high level.
(Note: I do not speak for my own casting and analysis ability, which is known to be shit.)
I would hope that the prevailing sentiment should be instead "Don't commentate on high play unless you've done some serious thought about what's going on, and NEVER be an asshole about players regardless. Mistakes may LOOK really bad, but they're still way better than you." That makes the most sense to me.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/thefrog_/aaa-12.jpg)
