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On December 28 2012 12:27 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished). counter-report people... lol. no point taking that discussion any further.
It's like the Prisoner's Dilemma, only with troll and jackasses.
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I have never been warned/banned/tribunal'd and I don't really care if someone says in game they're going to report me or if they actually do report me.
People who play regularly with a large pool of players shouldn't worry about false reports; trying to make something out of it is basically the troll cesspool circlejerking it (e.g. one game earlier today two of my bot lane got into huge all chat argument about which one should get reported and which one shouldn't. pretty obvious to all outside observers that both are noxious players).
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does anyone have thoughts on utility jungle
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Ugh I can't even log in right now...
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edit: o, i think i misunderstood the question
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client bugs out during champ select, just played jungle veigar np in ranked
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On December 28 2012 13:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone have thoughts on utility jungle
As to who can run utility in jungle? Fid and Nunu for sure, I can't really think of anyone else without a lot of help. Maybe a really lucky Yi.
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On December 28 2012 13:36 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone have thoughts on utility jungle As to who can run utility in jungle? Fid and Nunu for sure, I can't really think of anyone else without a lot of help. Maybe a really lucky Yi.
WW can and maybe even cho?
Edit: how do you guys feel about WW top in S3? and where can I read about some common lane item starts in S3?
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GP can run 21 utility in the jungle, minding he's a bit slower than average. Honestly I think most can, you're just giving up a bit of tankiness or damage you'd get from the other trees. Machete lets you use whatever masteries you want, though armor yellows are probably still mandatory on most every jungler.
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On December 28 2012 12:33 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 12:27 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished). counter-report people... lol. no point taking that discussion any further. It's like the Prisoner's Dilemma, only with troll and jackasses.
Isn't that the point of the tribunal? To attempt to make good behavior the "dominant strategy" ?
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On December 28 2012 13:48 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 12:33 Requizen wrote:On December 28 2012 12:27 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished). counter-report people... lol. no point taking that discussion any further. It's like the Prisoner's Dilemma, only with troll and jackasses. Isn't that the point of the tribunal? To attempt to make good behavior the "dominant strategy" ?
This isn't the prisoner's dilemma at all. The prisoner's dilemma assumes the prisoners already did something illegal (hence why confession is an option), the tribunal tries to get people to not do illegal things in the first place.
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What is going on with the servers? I keep trying to log in but get Error: null when I do 
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29 min wait to get in and ranked ques disabled. FML.
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United States23745 Posts
A lot of interesting things going down for CLG tomorrow. I assume this includes the pick-up of Aphromoo and their Season 3 sub, but the tweet makes a big point about there being a major roster change...I am intrigued.
Edit: Some people are speculating Hotshot retirement, that would be an interesting change.
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On December 28 2012 13:36 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone have thoughts on utility jungle As to who can run utility in jungle? Fid and Nunu for sure, I can't really think of anyone else without a lot of help. Maybe a really lucky Yi.
Everyone can, as far as I've witnessed. I do it on Maokai and Naut, I tried it on Vi, Noc and Udyr, haven't tested Mundo and Amumu but I'm positive that if Mao can, then Amumu can too.
Of course Naut could use the additionnal tankiness but he'll always need help early, even if you were to go 6-24-0 for AS, butcher and all the damage reduction you can think of.
And Swain keeps making me sad. You can't farm at all past the laning phase when there's Teemo, Twitch and Olaf on your team, they all clear and walk faster than you so unless you make up plans in advance and hope the enemy team won't force an engagement/objective at that time all you can is look at your items and weep if you laning phase didn't let you free farm. T_T
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On December 28 2012 13:38 LazyFailKid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:36 Requizen wrote:On December 28 2012 13:23 UniversalSnip wrote:
does anyone have thoughts on utility jungle As to who can run utility in jungle? Fid and Nunu for sure, I can't really think of anyone else without a lot of help. Maybe a really lucky Yi. WW can and maybe even cho? Edit: how do you guys feel about WW top in S3? and where can I read about some common lane item starts in S3?
0/15/15 +Gold Masteries Jungle Cho. Start Machete + Flask.
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On December 28 2012 13:51 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 13:48 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 12:33 Requizen wrote:On December 28 2012 12:27 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished). counter-report people... lol. no point taking that discussion any further. It's like the Prisoner's Dilemma, only with troll and jackasses. Isn't that the point of the tribunal? To attempt to make good behavior the "dominant strategy" ? This isn't the prisoner's dilemma at all. The prisoner's dilemma assumes the prisoners already did something illegal (hence why confession is an option), the tribunal tries to get people to not do illegal things in the first place.
Perhaps you should expand your understanding of game theory. I assume whenever anyone brings up the prisoner's dilemma they are not limiting themselves to one, simple, fairly rigid game. Instead they are talking about incentives and punishment.
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On December 28 2012 14:41 onlywonderboy wrote:A lot of interesting things going down for CLG tomorrow. I assume this includes the pick-up of Aphromoo and their Season 3 sub, but the tweet makes a big point about there being a major roster change...I am intrigued. Edit: Some people are speculating Hotshot retirement, that would be an interesting change.
we know aphromoo is the new support, but whos the 2nd player? They got a new top to replace hotshot?
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On December 28 2012 14:41 onlywonderboy wrote:A lot of interesting things going down for CLG tomorrow. I assume this includes the pick-up of Aphromoo and their Season 3 sub, but the tweet makes a big point about there being a major roster change...I am intrigued. Edit: Some people are speculating Hotshot retirement, that would be an interesting change.
Well, it's probably not very hard to pick up someone who derps less than HSGG.
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I'd assume Jiji, since he doesn't even live at the team house haha.
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EPT
