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On December 28 2012 09:40 Numy wrote:
Watching wings play Xerath then read his chat and everyone is saying how cool Xerath is as if they have never seen it before. Kind of sad how fotm our community is :<
Well you should watch Scarra
He's got this guy who spam friends him named "PLAY XERATH PLS" and then once he plays Xerath its "PLAY MORE XERATH"
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Nothing wrong with being a FotM follower, Stonewall released his new jungle tier list and I started learning Mundo and having loads of fun. FotM is only bad if you want it to be, I use it to see what creative ideas people thought of are actually good in the current meta.
The only thing I don't like is that there is always a Katarina and Lee in every single game I play, gets old.
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Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility.
S3 stats of my games:
Including my picks:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fWOtE.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T3nmO.jpg)
+ Show Spoiler [Excluding my picks] +
Frequency distribution of how often champions have been seen across the 59 games I have recorded:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tkRCP.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eOkMo.jpg)
67 champions have been seen 5 times or less, while Ezreal has been seen 33 times. GG.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:07 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:40 Numy wrote:
Watching wings play Xerath then read his chat and everyone is saying how cool Xerath is as if they have never seen it before. Kind of sad how fotm our community is :< all communities have their bandwagons in american football, the spread offense became fotm in college and the wildcat offense became fotm at the pro level. not like it matters anyway though, just play whatever you wanna play
so which champ is Tim Tebow then
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On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler +
Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice.
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On December 28 2012 10:45 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:07 kainzero wrote:On December 28 2012 09:40 Numy wrote:
Watching wings play Xerath then read his chat and everyone is saying how cool Xerath is as if they have never seen it before. Kind of sad how fotm our community is :< all communities have their bandwagons in american football, the spread offense became fotm in college and the wildcat offense became fotm at the pro level. not like it matters anyway though, just play whatever you wanna play so which champ is Tim Tebow then
My personal vote is Kha'Zix. Because you know most of them are horrible but they're just winning against bad opponents.
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On December 28 2012 10:47 rackdude wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler + Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice.
I wrote a program that I used to record all my stats into an Oracle database. The screenshots are just queries run through SQL Developer.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 28 2012 10:49 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:47 rackdude wrote:On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler + Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice. I wrote a program that I used to record all my stats into an Oracle database. The screenshots are just queries run through SQL Developer.
Coooooool. With the Riot APIs or by a different method?
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Tim Tebow is obviously Soraka.
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On December 28 2012 10:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:49 Craton wrote:On December 28 2012 10:47 rackdude wrote:On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler + Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice. I wrote a program that I used to record all my stats into an Oracle database. The screenshots are just queries run through SQL Developer. Coooooool. With the Riot APIs or by a different method?
Version 1 was manual keying, version 2 made some use of Elophant's API, and version 3 (WIP) will be almost entirely automated using Elophant.
I don't know how to gain access to any Riot APIs, if they even exist.
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On December 28 2012 09:53 Numy wrote:I thought everyone knew that was what was going to happen with the Riot Season 3 stuff. All the top teams are Riot teams and they only play in Riot events.
Actually from recent statements from David Ting and sundance, they implied that Riot might be bending their rules slightly to accommodate those leagues more.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 28 2012 11:00 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 10:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 28 2012 10:49 Craton wrote:On December 28 2012 10:47 rackdude wrote:On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler + Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice. I wrote a program that I used to record all my stats into an Oracle database. The screenshots are just queries run through SQL Developer. Coooooool. With the Riot APIs or by a different method? Version 1 was manual keying, version 2 made some use of Elophant's API, and version 3 (WIP) will be almost entirely automated using Elophant. I don't know how to gain access to any Riot APIs, if they even exist.
I thought they were releasing some basic APIs to enable stuff like Elophant around S3, but I don't remember where I heard/where the announcement would be, so it's entirely possible that I'm hallucinating.
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On December 28 2012 11:04 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 11:00 Craton wrote:On December 28 2012 10:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 28 2012 10:49 Craton wrote:On December 28 2012 10:47 rackdude wrote:On December 28 2012 10:34 Craton wrote:Ezreal + Graves is in every goddamn game for AD, Taric and Zyra every game for support, Lee Sin for jungle or top. It's really stale right now how much of the same thing you see day in day out because they generally outclass the other options in power and/or versatility. S3 stats of my games: Including my picks: + Show Spoiler + Wow, what program gives you all of those stats? That seems nice. I wrote a program that I used to record all my stats into an Oracle database. The screenshots are just queries run through SQL Developer. Coooooool. With the Riot APIs or by a different method? Version 1 was manual keying, version 2 made some use of Elophant's API, and version 3 (WIP) will be almost entirely automated using Elophant. I don't know how to gain access to any Riot APIs, if they even exist. I thought they were releasing some basic APIs to enable stuff like Elophant around S3, but I don't remember where I heard/where the announcement would be, so it's entirely possible that I'm hallucinating.
http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=9439958#post9439958
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On December 28 2012 09:55 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:53 Numy wrote:I thought everyone knew that was what was going to happen with the Riot Season 3 stuff. All the top teams are Riot teams and they only play in Riot events. doesn't make our jimmies any less rustled :\
Meh. I think Riot really wants stability because they figure that having a stable roster of pro teams will make it easier to follow the scene, build fan relations with the teams, and etc.
Problem is that they may have swung too far on the scale of making it so we always see similar faces. Instead of just being perennially good, there just wont be any new blood to take over, which kind of sucks.
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On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished).
People that have a habit of false reporting do get in trouble for it and their reports have a "crying wolf" stigma in the tribunal machinations, I think I read.
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On December 28 2012 11:19 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished). People that have a habit of false reporting do get in trouble for it and their reports have a "crying wolf" stigma in the tribunal machinations, I think I read.
Yea, but relying solely on frequency distributions when the infrastructure is already there for a superior method is just dumb. And depriving people of valuable information that could help people who want to avoid trouble is even dumber.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 28 2012 11:18 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:55 Perplex wrote:On December 28 2012 09:53 Numy wrote:I thought everyone knew that was what was going to happen with the Riot Season 3 stuff. All the top teams are Riot teams and they only play in Riot events. doesn't make our jimmies any less rustled :\ Meh. I think Riot really wants stability because they figure that having a stable roster of pro teams will make it easier to follow the scene, build fan relations with the teams, and etc. Problem is that they may have swung too far on the scale of making it so we always see similar faces. Instead of just being perennially good, there just wont be any new blood to take over, which kind of sucks.
They are just adopting more of a traditional sports approach, you don't see new teams enter the NFL on a regular basis. But Riot has promised new teams will get the chance to compete to join the Championship Series depending on their performance at non-Riot events (IPL, MLG, Dreamhack ect.) Plus teams like Curse and ex-Quantic still to to compete in the qualifying tournament, so if there is a fresh blood team that deserves to beat them they will get their chance.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2012 11:58 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 11:18 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 28 2012 09:55 Perplex wrote:On December 28 2012 09:53 Numy wrote:I thought everyone knew that was what was going to happen with the Riot Season 3 stuff. All the top teams are Riot teams and they only play in Riot events. doesn't make our jimmies any less rustled :\ Meh. I think Riot really wants stability because they figure that having a stable roster of pro teams will make it easier to follow the scene, build fan relations with the teams, and etc. Problem is that they may have swung too far on the scale of making it so we always see similar faces. Instead of just being perennially good, there just wont be any new blood to take over, which kind of sucks. They are just adopting more of a traditional sports approach, you don't see new teams enter the NFL on a regular basis. But Riot has promised new teams will get the chance to compete to join the Championship Series depending on their performance at non-Riot events (IPL, MLG, Dreamhack ect.) Plus teams like Curse and ex-Quantic still to to compete in the qualifying tournament, so if there is a fresh blood team that deserves to beat them they will get their chance.
I don't think that's the issue here.
The implication of the reddit post is that cross-regional events will become the exception rather than the norm. There are a number of reasons why this is somewhat disappointing, one being that the clash of styles at these events invariably makes for great games to watch. Another issue is that isolating regions has the potential to cause the skill level of the various regions to separate out further than it already does, as teams will only compete with other teams in their region. The strong regions will become stronger, and the weak ones weaker, which in the long run will make for poor competition at S3 World Finals, and could hurt the longer-term interest in some of the weaker regions.
This has sort of derailed into a discussion of the generalities of the S3 circuit, but insofar as Nick Allen implies that S3's setup prevents cross-regional events like IPL, I think we should all agree that this is less that desirable.
Also note that IPL is likely not the only event affected. It's possible that future IEMs, etc. will be region-specific because of this rather than having qualifiers from different regions.
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On December 28 2012 09:47 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:18 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 28 2012 06:27 Simberto wrote:On December 28 2012 05:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
the ideas are horrible lol. Statement to the tribunal? Your conduct in game is your statement, if that's not good enough to sway the jury stop being such a bitch. Being told that somebody just reported me? That's REALLY not a good idea. Imagine a new player to the game jumps in, he sees the little TIP: REPORT PEOPLE AND WE'LL BAN THEM, then a dude in his game flames and rages and reports everyone. If i were them i'd conclude the trolls are armed in this game. I mean, jeez, it already freaks newbies out when people claim to be reporting them. Luckily people almost never follow through because there's no incentive for them to do so, but this would let them squeeze that extra little bit of harassment out of a game. I don't see how being able to make a statement to the tribunal would be a "horrible idea". Being able to defend oneself is an important part of a just punishment system. At the moment, the accuser could basically lie about anything that would not be seen in the logs. For example, if someone starts flaming in the postgame lobby, or obviously trolls in the pregame lobby, i will state that in the report with a description or quote of what they said. I am pretty sure that the people judging the tribunal do not completely ignore such a statement. I am a honest person, thus i only write stuff in there that is actually true. However, someone could very well just make up random shit, and the accused would be unable to respond in any way to that. I have never been banned or warned by the Tribunal, and i don't fear that it will happen because i know that my behaviour in game does not warrant it. However, i fail to see how transparency and a right to defend yourself could ever be a bad idea. cuz it's a joke. this isn't a just punishment system, as far as I can tell it isn't designed to be, it's intended to get toxic people out of the game, or to shut up, for the benefit of the rest of us. Strictly utilitarian, just making the game better, not satisfying abstract principles like a legal system is supposed to. Just by statistical means like requiring a large number of reports from credible reporters and requiring multiple cases for even a temp ban they seem to have gotten the false positive rate to a level I'm more than comfortable with, once that's the case I'm happy to take a hit to some nebulous measure of fairness in favor of efficiency. Allowing players to defend themselves is literally one of the worst possible methods of dealing with the problem you cite. - It hangs up the tribunal because now every case has to wait a period of time that allows the person under examination to reply before they can be judged. - it doesn't actually solve the problem which is that people who troll pre/postgame AREN'T being judged guilty - it actually has completely the opposite effect and exacerbates the issue. - it means that innocent people can now see when they are in the tribunal (DISASTER) and will feel pressured to defend themselves (nightmare scenario. the way this will read is that you get an email that, to them, effectively says "explain yourself now or be banned"). - not to mention it doesn't work efficiently with people who act properly but have poor english skills. The proper way to handle pre/postgame trolling is to add the pre/post chat logs to the tribunal, which I am certain they will do eventually. Makes no sense to implement some awful system where you try to act as your own lawyer to sway the tribunal voters. The game is recorded, they check the recording and vote on whether you're a jerk, you don't need representation for this process cuz it aint law. Innocent people SHOULD see when they are in the tribunal, even if they need not defend themselves. This can let them counter-report people who reported for nonsense. or let them see what is pissing people off (even if its not punished).
counter-report people... lol. no point taking that discussion any further.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 28 2012 12:18 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 11:58 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 28 2012 11:18 Two_DoWn wrote:On December 28 2012 09:55 Perplex wrote:On December 28 2012 09:53 Numy wrote:I thought everyone knew that was what was going to happen with the Riot Season 3 stuff. All the top teams are Riot teams and they only play in Riot events. doesn't make our jimmies any less rustled :\ Meh. I think Riot really wants stability because they figure that having a stable roster of pro teams will make it easier to follow the scene, build fan relations with the teams, and etc. Problem is that they may have swung too far on the scale of making it so we always see similar faces. Instead of just being perennially good, there just wont be any new blood to take over, which kind of sucks. They are just adopting more of a traditional sports approach, you don't see new teams enter the NFL on a regular basis. But Riot has promised new teams will get the chance to compete to join the Championship Series depending on their performance at non-Riot events (IPL, MLG, Dreamhack ect.) Plus teams like Curse and ex-Quantic still to to compete in the qualifying tournament, so if there is a fresh blood team that deserves to beat them they will get their chance. I don't think that's the issue here. The implication of the reddit post is that cross-regional events will become the exception rather than the norm. There are a number of reasons why this is somewhat disappointing, one being that the clash of styles at these events invariably makes for great games to watch. Another issue is that isolating regions has the potential to cause the skill level of the various regions to separate out further than it already does, as teams will only compete with other teams in their region. The strong regions will become stronger, and the weak ones weaker, which in the long run will make for poor competition at S3, and could hurt the longer-term interest in some of the weaker regions. This has sort of derailed into a discussion of the generalities of the S3 circuit, but insofar as Nick Allen implies that S3's setup prevents cross-regional events like IPL, I think we should all agree that this is less that desirable. Also note that IPL is likely not the only event affected. It's possible that future IEMs, etc. will be region-specific because of this rather than having qualifiers from different regions.
On that point I agree, the lack of cross-realm competitive play sucks, although I didn't really expect much different. Each realm is it's own competitive bubble in Riot's eyes, so they don't see reason for there to be competition between them. The only thing we might get is a cross-realm show match. Although NA should still realize they are behind Korea and Europe and adjust accordingly.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oYnal.jpg)
