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On December 08 2012 11:34 overt wrote:
Well for starters people should probably ignore trolls. But since this has become a major topic of this thread...
NA scene fucking blows. Doublelift is the only world class player in NA at the moment. NA's best support is Xpecial I guess who while good has plenty of Asian and European players who are better than him. NA's best AP mid player in the pro scene is probably Nyjacky?? Maybe? Either way, NA scene is miles behind Asia/EU on AP mids. Top lane NA is a joke, is the general consensus that Dyrus is still the best top laner? Regardless the fact that HotshotGG is still a relevant top laner in the NA scene shows how bad that lane is. Finally we come to jungle. Chauster is already top three in that regard and honestly on the right day he's probably better than saint or OddOne (whom I'd say are top two in NA). Junglers by and large is probably the NA scene's best role but that's mostly because there are so few good junglers in the scene.
It isn't just team play and team work, the NA scene lacks talent too. NA scene has one player whom you could consider top 5 in their role around the world. Maybe you could argue that saint, OddOne, or maybe Chauster are top 5 junglers in the world but it's not like either of those three are crazy impressive and I think it hints more to the fact that jungling is still not very developed in the pro scene.
Crumbz is a worthy contender for top 3 NA jungler i think
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On December 08 2012 18:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 15:32 Pathos wrote:
As a follow-up, I am not sure if its an unpopular opinion but Stanley is the most amazing component of TPA because of his play making/carrying relative to his team resource usage demand. The efficiency of his output is stellar and is what in my opinion won them the WC not Toyz. Lilballz. Toyz and Stanley got overrated at Worlds because by and large they got to pick into their comfort zone, which actually far overstates their actual ability. Both players have fairly defined champ types that they're comfortable in and almost never stray from them. Toyz' weakness on aggressive, gank-oriented mid laners became readily apparent at IPL 5, but Stanley's champ pool actually shows similar limitations (e.g. you will never see Stanley play many of the 3rd position defensive team-utility top laners like Cho'gath or Malphite--only really Shen, and even his Shen isn't terribly spectacular). It is also worth noting that among the "world-class" top laners, Stanley is the worst I have seen at adapting to 1v2 lanes. Even in extraordinarily stompy GPL games, I've seen Stanley feed from 1v2 lanes because he misjudges how strong he is with 1v2 levels/farm.
How many players really play those "support" tops now? In S2, with jungle farm how it was, you really couldn't afford to have 3 support characters unless you had malph/shen as one of them because they basically can turn games into 4v5 and have superb initiation.
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The point Yango brings up is something ALL pro players have issues with. Limited champ pool is bound to happen, especially when you consider playstyles, and effectiveness. I mean, sure Maknoon can play support style tops, but in reality it's a waste of his ability to do so, as he'll have a much heavier impact playing a carry style tops. Why handicap yourself?
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Pretty interesting interview. Liked the part where they compared Korean esports development to the american scene ("Korea develops new talent to replace people kicked off the team, while NA just recycles (implied: failed) talent") Not going to discuss where DLift (and Chauster) ranks in the world - not enough material to make a reasonable judgement. Judging from IPL 5 alone, I wouldn't consider Chauster a top tier jungler, and Dlift has really good mechanics but little else...the whole team is seemed based around creating space for him to farm up (similar to how CLG.EU, most of the time, seems to play solely around Froggen)
About the limited champion pools: Player mentality will always be a factor (think Misaya -> aggressive, Toyz -> passive) and hard to overcome. But even so, you shouldn't limit yourself to only the "best" champions even within your "pool", or you end up like Toyz, who got two champs banned and the third countered. Ryze, Cassiopeia and others can also pull out the farm game and go for the big plays lategame, even though they might lag behind the current FotM/OP champs - you'd have to adjust your team, it's still better than having a no-show mid. Top lane is a whole other business - from game to game, Wickd looks more and more uncomfortable on anything that isn't named Irelia or Malphite (or maybe Renekton). That just doesn't cut it, and there's enough champions that enjoy a similar playstyle.
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i like what dlift siad about standard picks and niche picks: everyone tries to copy eachother instead of beat eachother.
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United States37500 Posts
Thorin, I'm watching 30 minutes in and I'm going to finish watching this.
This interview is amazing. Why haven't we heard more from you before this?
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I wish there was an mp3, an interview this long I'd rather just have portable audio.
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I really liked this interview. Skipped around a few times before I finished all the questions I was most interested in.
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This is a really good interview with pretty well researched questions. Thank you for the interview.
Also, I did not realize CLG.NA had a coach/manager.
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United States37500 Posts
Kelby is manager, no coach afaik.
WE had a coach, that was some serious shit.
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On December 09 2012 14:53 NeoIllusions wrote:
Kelby is manager, no coach afaik.
WE had a coach, that was some serious shit.
Isn't WEJoker still their coach?
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On December 09 2012 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 14:53 NeoIllusions wrote:
Kelby is manager, no coach afaik.
WE had a coach, that was some serious shit. Isn't WEJoker still their coach?
Don't know who it was, but they seemed really close when WE won IPL5. They kept dragging their coach(I think) up to accept the prize money with them(which he eventually did end up doing). Seems like a really good environment for them.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 09 2012 15:03 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 14:53 NeoIllusions wrote:
Kelby is manager, no coach afaik.
WE had a coach, that was some serious shit. Isn't WEJoker still their coach?
IIRC WE had 2 coaches now, to manage the both WE teams.
Joker is still WE's coach, but he wasn't at IPL5 from what I saw. I think it was Aaron at IPL5
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On December 09 2012 06:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Thorin, I'm watching 30 minutes in and I'm going to finish watching this.
This interview is amazing. Why haven't we heard more from you before this?
I wholeheartedly agree with Neo... this is the best League of Legends interview I've seen. Please do more... or if you have, please let us know!
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On December 09 2012 06:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Thorin, I'm watching 30 minutes in and I'm going to finish watching this.
This interview is amazing. Why haven't we heard more from you before this?
I'll quote my reply to a similar question on reddit:
This is the third I've ever done (I did one with snoopeh almost two weeks ago) and I have next-to-no experience of LoL at all as a game (have watched half of a pro match and played once vs. the computer), so I have a lot to learn.
I have done lots of interviews in Counter-Strike, Quake and StarCraft though, so hopefully I know how to ask questions and which areas to look in, plus I am willing to put in a lot of time researching potential discussion topics.
Since the feedback, and more importantly the views, have been so good on this one I will definitely conduct some more at the next events I attend, though I'm not certain when that will be yet for LoL.
On December 11 2012 10:19 deverlight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2012 06:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Thorin, I'm watching 30 minutes in and I'm going to finish watching this.
This interview is amazing. Why haven't we heard more from you before this? I wholeheartedly agree with Neo... this is the best League of Legends interview I've seen. Please do more... or if you have, please let us know!
I have one more in the can for LoL, and I'll make a thread here when I post it.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Thorin, much respect for your in-depth, well researched questions. 99% of the interviewers are crap, and you truly are a pro interviewer amongst crap.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
For the limited amount of exposure you've had in LoL, this was probably one of the best interviews if not the best that I've seen in the scene. A lot of other interviews just end up with the pros telling us the same old stuff over and over, but this one actually grills DL about why he thinks stuff are the way they are. The key here is the fact that you were able to get DL to give his opinion and then explain why he believes this is the case, whereas other people simply just ask for his opinion and leave it at that.
Massive props for this interview, and I hope to see more from you in the future.
Edit: I actually just listened to the Snoopeh one as well, and I've got to say your interviews are by far the best I've seen on the scene. Other interviewers spend a lot of time fucking around and not getting as much content out in their interviews, but you're very clear, very on the point, and very well prepared with some great questions.
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EPT
