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United States15536 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:10 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 04:58 HazMat wrote:
Bly is right. This would NEVER happen to a player like Dyrus, TOO, or Hotshot even though they are just as toxic if not more. IWD did not have a fan base. He's an easy target for Riot to start their new manner intiative or w.e it is they're doing.
Also, lol@people who think Dyrus or Oddone only bm to their viewers on stream. At the very least IWD doesn't ragequit when a game goes wrong. I haven't seen ANY punishment for Dyrus doing this in front of 10k viewers. And there's a difference between banning someone and ending their career zzz.
It all makes me flashback to when TOO played and trolled with Hackedshotgg. Or when TSM colluted to throw a game. Their punishment was nowhere near severe. I would hope that if Riot is starting a new manner initiative that they wouldn't end it with IWD just to make a point. We can't know this until they make another move, but if HSGG, TOO, or Dyrus came up in the Tribunal as much as IWD seems to have, Riot should ban them too. And I hope they plan to. I guess my point is that just because there are other terrible members of the scene doesn't mean that IWD shouldn't be banned for his own bad behavior. We can only hope that Riot has their heads on their shoulders enough to keep doing their jobs and following their own principles. If not, then yes, fuck this. But ideally they'll punish everyone who was in the same position as IWD. See I on the other hand don't care if players are BM in solo queue. Shit like saying "stfu retard" in a PRO MATCH should be though, and AFAIK Diamond had nothing happen to him from Riot. Or screen peeking at a tourney match. How does Blizzard handle this? Afaik Idra doesn't get banned for bm'ing in ladder matches. I just don't think it's fair to put these players to a higher standard than ourselves.
I had a post higher up the page with B.net's harassment policy. But then, IdrA's still out there, so take that with a grain of salt.
And unfortunately, I'm an idealist... I would like to hold ALL of us to a higher standard. And BM'ing then getting banned after warnings should BE the standard.
IdrA should probably be banned too. But I can see why that kind of goes under the radar because of how SC2 works. Since player cooperation naturally has to be more important in LoL, so should the attention to the harassment guidelines, etc.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:01 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 04:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On December 06 2012 04:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:On December 06 2012 04:24 IntoTheWow wrote:On December 06 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yes professional athletes get banned from their sport for something outside of professional sports when they do stuff like commit murder. In football/soccer, when have people ever been globally banned except for doping? Hence my first argument. How am I sprouting BS? I obviously know people have been affected when he got reported, I'm saying no one HERE has been affected yet people are too quick to be as unsympathetic as possible. Because we can relate to the action of being harrassed or insulted in a game. So when a person mugs someone on the street we should be sympathetic because he didn't mug us in particular? Are you trying to be annoying now? Of course you don't get global bans on football, cause they are not necessary. Players have binding contracts that prohibit them from playing for other teams, so while a player is banned from X league is not like he can play in Y league while his banned. so like I said, IWD has become the scapegoat for every solo queuer who has ever gotten harassed or insulted. The difference is he's not the people who have harassed you and you only know him from progaming, His image as a normal, even professional progamer is destroyed because of something that has nothing to do with anyone aside from like the 1k people at his elo who've queued into or with him, I don't even think he's played that many solo queue games last season. But the public outcry is so strong because apparently he's become the guy who just harassed you in game yesterday. I think this is called mob mentality, without concern for the individual. IWD has not become a scapegoat. People get banned all the time for their soloQ behaviour. Progamers and steamers get banned for trolling in games (Dyrus come to my mind). This is just the first of someone being banned globally and I expect this to happen to other people under the same circumstances who do the same. Since you discredit our opinion because we haven't been q'd against IWD, I'll paste Snoopeh's thoughts. Snoopeh has played vs IWD many times, more than you and me, and everyone in this conversation combined. [–]snoopeh 1567 points 21 hours ago (2113|546)
While I feel for the guys over at Dignitas and especially Odee (their Manager) who is a fantastic guy, as well as team owner.
I don't know the extent of IWD's behaviour in or out of game, but I know that Riot would not enforce such punishment light heartedly - therefore I'd assume it's justified.
It's sad to see anyone act in a disrespectful manner, even more so a professional player who's behaviour is reflected onto the entire community. I hope this sets an example to other top players that may think they have some sort of 'superior status,' which makes them immune from punishment.
Obviously professional players are in the eyes of the public way more than most and we can also be easily provoked into acting uncharacteristically. However it does not excuse poor behaviour, especially on a recurring basis - this is a step forward by Riot in professionalising the LoL Pro Scene which they are very passionate about. So, one of IWD's peers, under the same circumstances (meaning he could be a 'victim' of the same treat) is happy this is being enforced. Ok I will elaborate further on my point that no one here has played with him in solo queue just in case people misinterpret it as another elitist argument. I have never played with or against IWD in any queue. I did not know that he was a rager in solo queue until this thread was made. I know what he looks like and a bit of his personality from interviews and press. I'm assuming his exposure to me is the same as with most league players. From his interviews and press, I felt like he's just another standard progamer personality, his play is ok, some good games bad games, his interviews are ok, basic answers, nothing out of the ordinary. He looks kinda lame but that's my opinion. All of a sudden I read he has been banned from progaming for a year, which practically is a lifetime ban. My first reaction, and the reaction I would hope reasonable people to have, is that wow, I don't wish that upon anyone, he must've done something really wrong. When I saw it was raging in solo queue, I was puzzled. Next I come into this thread reading posts as if he just raped everyone's family. I get that ragers are bad and make the game unfun. But to wish someone's life to be ruined over raging in a video game, especially someone that no one here has personally been the victim of, is a sentiment lacking in conscience and sympathy. If you disagree and think, no it's absolutely fine for me to hate someone I don't know and be glad his life is ruined over something I didn't know they did until 2 days ago, to people I don't know, then there's nothing more to say. If you perhaps agree that the reaction is harsh, then hence my point.
There is no question that IWD deserved the permaban after being punished by the tribunal multiple times (any time after the first one is just IWD being an idiot). What I'm getting from you is whether the 1 year ban fit the crime. Maybe, maybe not. It's not Riot's responsibility to ensure that IWD has a good life after the "crime" has been committed. I just think that you've become too attached to all the potential consequences in IWD's life after being banned.
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On December 06 2012 05:13 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:10 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 04:58 HazMat wrote:
Bly is right. This would NEVER happen to a player like Dyrus, TOO, or Hotshot even though they are just as toxic if not more. IWD did not have a fan base. He's an easy target for Riot to start their new manner intiative or w.e it is they're doing.
Also, lol@people who think Dyrus or Oddone only bm to their viewers on stream. At the very least IWD doesn't ragequit when a game goes wrong. I haven't seen ANY punishment for Dyrus doing this in front of 10k viewers. And there's a difference between banning someone and ending their career zzz.
It all makes me flashback to when TOO played and trolled with Hackedshotgg. Or when TSM colluted to throw a game. Their punishment was nowhere near severe. I would hope that if Riot is starting a new manner initiative that they wouldn't end it with IWD just to make a point. We can't know this until they make another move, but if HSGG, TOO, or Dyrus came up in the Tribunal as much as IWD seems to have, Riot should ban them too. And I hope they plan to. I guess my point is that just because there are other terrible members of the scene doesn't mean that IWD shouldn't be banned for his own bad behavior. We can only hope that Riot has their heads on their shoulders enough to keep doing their jobs and following their own principles. If not, then yes, fuck this. But ideally they'll punish everyone who was in the same position as IWD. See I on the other hand don't care if players are BM in solo queue. Shit like saying "stfu retard" in a PRO MATCH should be though, and AFAIK Diamond had nothing happen to him from Riot. Or screen peeking at a tourney match. How does Blizzard handle this? Afaik Idra doesn't get banned for bm'ing in ladder matches. I just don't think it's fair to put these players to a higher standard than ourselves. Honestly, I've very rarely heard of Blizzard banning anyone for BM, only for hacking.
Yeah, like it should be the team's choice to drop the player if he's hurting the team's image. Stephano got a 1 month ban from competitive play for thay stupid molestation joke by EG, not by Blizzard. (not the best example, like I said I haven't followed SC2 too closely in a while. Maybe Naniwa or Ret trolling and then being punished by their team is a more fitting analogy.)
If Dig felt IWD's attitude in solo queue was hurting their image they could have dropped him, but we all know no one cared about his rage. When the rage gets to tournaments then it becomes a problem.
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Did anyone watch whose league is it anyway? I tuned in late just when Odee left, dunno if he said something regarding the matter.
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Meh, I also think this is part of the problem. Riot wants to be the LoLesports organization, as well as provider, and it leads to this sort of ordeal. Riot too Big Brother imo.
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On December 06 2012 05:17 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:01 zulu_nation8 wrote:On December 06 2012 04:43 IntoTheWow wrote:On December 06 2012 04:34 zulu_nation8 wrote:On December 06 2012 04:24 IntoTheWow wrote:On December 06 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yes professional athletes get banned from their sport for something outside of professional sports when they do stuff like commit murder. In football/soccer, when have people ever been globally banned except for doping? Hence my first argument. How am I sprouting BS? I obviously know people have been affected when he got reported, I'm saying no one HERE has been affected yet people are too quick to be as unsympathetic as possible. Because we can relate to the action of being harrassed or insulted in a game. So when a person mugs someone on the street we should be sympathetic because he didn't mug us in particular? Are you trying to be annoying now? Of course you don't get global bans on football, cause they are not necessary. Players have binding contracts that prohibit them from playing for other teams, so while a player is banned from X league is not like he can play in Y league while his banned. so like I said, IWD has become the scapegoat for every solo queuer who has ever gotten harassed or insulted. The difference is he's not the people who have harassed you and you only know him from progaming, His image as a normal, even professional progamer is destroyed because of something that has nothing to do with anyone aside from like the 1k people at his elo who've queued into or with him, I don't even think he's played that many solo queue games last season. But the public outcry is so strong because apparently he's become the guy who just harassed you in game yesterday. I think this is called mob mentality, without concern for the individual. IWD has not become a scapegoat. People get banned all the time for their soloQ behaviour. Progamers and steamers get banned for trolling in games (Dyrus come to my mind). This is just the first of someone being banned globally and I expect this to happen to other people under the same circumstances who do the same. Since you discredit our opinion because we haven't been q'd against IWD, I'll paste Snoopeh's thoughts. Snoopeh has played vs IWD many times, more than you and me, and everyone in this conversation combined. [–]snoopeh 1567 points 21 hours ago (2113|546)
While I feel for the guys over at Dignitas and especially Odee (their Manager) who is a fantastic guy, as well as team owner.
I don't know the extent of IWD's behaviour in or out of game, but I know that Riot would not enforce such punishment light heartedly - therefore I'd assume it's justified.
It's sad to see anyone act in a disrespectful manner, even more so a professional player who's behaviour is reflected onto the entire community. I hope this sets an example to other top players that may think they have some sort of 'superior status,' which makes them immune from punishment.
Obviously professional players are in the eyes of the public way more than most and we can also be easily provoked into acting uncharacteristically. However it does not excuse poor behaviour, especially on a recurring basis - this is a step forward by Riot in professionalising the LoL Pro Scene which they are very passionate about. So, one of IWD's peers, under the same circumstances (meaning he could be a 'victim' of the same treat) is happy this is being enforced. Ok I will elaborate further on my point that no one here has played with him in solo queue just in case people misinterpret it as another elitist argument. I have never played with or against IWD in any queue. I did not know that he was a rager in solo queue until this thread was made. I know what he looks like and a bit of his personality from interviews and press. I'm assuming his exposure to me is the same as with most league players. From his interviews and press, I felt like he's just another standard progamer personality, his play is ok, some good games bad games, his interviews are ok, basic answers, nothing out of the ordinary. He looks kinda lame but that's my opinion. All of a sudden I read he has been banned from progaming for a year, which practically is a lifetime ban. My first reaction, and the reaction I would hope reasonable people to have, is that wow, I don't wish that upon anyone, he must've done something really wrong. When I saw it was raging in solo queue, I was puzzled. Next I come into this thread reading posts as if he just raped everyone's family. I get that ragers are bad and make the game unfun. But to wish someone's life to be ruined over raging in a video game, especially someone that no one here has personally been the victim of, is a sentiment lacking in conscience and sympathy. If you disagree and think, no it's absolutely fine for me to hate someone I don't know and be glad his life is ruined over something I didn't know they did until 2 days ago, to people I don't know, then there's nothing more to say. If you perhaps agree that the reaction is harsh, then hence my point. There is no question that IWD deserved the permaban after being punished by the tribunal multiple times (any time after the first one is just IWD being an idiot). What I'm getting from you is whether the 1 year ban fit the crime. Maybe, maybe not. It's not Riot's responsibility to ensure that IWD has a good life after the "crime" has been committed. I just think that you've become too attached to all the potential consequences in IWD's life after being banned.
This is a fair response.
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On December 06 2012 05:19 wei2coolman wrote:
Meh, I also think this is part of the problem. Riot wants to be the LoLesports organization, as well as provider, and it leads to this sort of ordeal. Riot too Big Brother imo.
How is this to Big Brother. He is banned from the Champions. a league organised by Riot itself in which they pay salary to players.
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HazMat, are you suggesting that Riot is somehow misleading us when they say he was 300% worse than the next pro player?
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On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go.
haha "no kid"
is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see
People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his.
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On December 06 2012 05:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:19 wei2coolman wrote:
Meh, I also think this is part of the problem. Riot wants to be the LoLesports organization, as well as provider, and it leads to this sort of ordeal. Riot too Big Brother imo. How is this to Big Brother. He is banned from the Champions. a league organised by Riot itself in which they pay salary to players.
they have all the leverage, the tournament scene is so centralized around Riot's money, that a ban on Riot tournaments pretty much makes him a toxic pick up for any team.
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If I work at a store, then I'm off-duty and I'm shopping at the store and I yell obscenities at some customers I'm going to get fired even though I'm not technically working at that time. Hell if you go to a bar with a coworker after hours and get too drunk and grope his/her butt in an inappropriate way, the coworker can complain to your manager and you will get fired for that too. That's real life.
People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his.
People can easily have wrong opinions. "No one thought he was toxic" is a wrong opinion, given how many people have come out and said he was toxic.
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On December 06 2012 05:18 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:13 Roffles wrote:On December 06 2012 05:10 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 04:58 HazMat wrote:
Bly is right. This would NEVER happen to a player like Dyrus, TOO, or Hotshot even though they are just as toxic if not more. IWD did not have a fan base. He's an easy target for Riot to start their new manner intiative or w.e it is they're doing.
Also, lol@people who think Dyrus or Oddone only bm to their viewers on stream. At the very least IWD doesn't ragequit when a game goes wrong. I haven't seen ANY punishment for Dyrus doing this in front of 10k viewers. And there's a difference between banning someone and ending their career zzz.
It all makes me flashback to when TOO played and trolled with Hackedshotgg. Or when TSM colluted to throw a game. Their punishment was nowhere near severe. I would hope that if Riot is starting a new manner initiative that they wouldn't end it with IWD just to make a point. We can't know this until they make another move, but if HSGG, TOO, or Dyrus came up in the Tribunal as much as IWD seems to have, Riot should ban them too. And I hope they plan to. I guess my point is that just because there are other terrible members of the scene doesn't mean that IWD shouldn't be banned for his own bad behavior. We can only hope that Riot has their heads on their shoulders enough to keep doing their jobs and following their own principles. If not, then yes, fuck this. But ideally they'll punish everyone who was in the same position as IWD. See I on the other hand don't care if players are BM in solo queue. Shit like saying "stfu retard" in a PRO MATCH should be though, and AFAIK Diamond had nothing happen to him from Riot. Or screen peeking at a tourney match. How does Blizzard handle this? Afaik Idra doesn't get banned for bm'ing in ladder matches. I just don't think it's fair to put these players to a higher standard than ourselves. Honestly, I've very rarely heard of Blizzard banning anyone for BM, only for hacking. Yeah, like it should be the team's choice to drop the player if he's hurting the team's image. Stephano got a 1 month ban from competitive play for thay stupid molestation joke by EG, not by Blizzard. (not the best example, like I said I haven't followed SC2 too closely in a while. Maybe Naniwa or Ret trolling and then being punished by their team is a more fitting analogy.) If Dig felt IWD's attitude in solo queue was hurting their image they could have dropped him, but we all know no one cared about his rage. When the rage gets to tournaments then it becomes a problem. Stephano got suspended by the organizations he gets his salary from. Same for IWD. Also trolling/being bm in lol doesn't affect the enemy team most of the time, only your team. Which case is impossible in SC2, this is why we don't see blizzard handing out bans left and right for being bm. Also communicating in lol has a lot to do with the game itself (be it by chatting or by pings), which again isn't the case for sc2. It's just silly to compare the two games, imo.
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On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his.
Lol, I hope to god you're trolling.
Neo powerhungry
lol
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United States15536 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his.
As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for.
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On December 06 2012 05:27 Pooshlmer wrote:
HazMat, are you suggesting that Riot is somehow misleading us when they say he was 300% worse than the next pro player?
Yes. Which isn't hard to believe when you have context. Though my #1 concern is not what pro is more toxic but that they be banned from competitibe play for being toxic in solo queue.
And yeah, it's really not fair to warn Bly for being resolute in his opinion.
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On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for.
I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending.
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On December 06 2012 05:27 wei2coolman wrote:
they have all the leverage, the tournament scene is so centralized around Riot's money, that a ban on Riot tournaments pretty much makes him a toxic pick up for any team.
The thing is that even if there was only a one tourney suspension and Dig dropped him because of that, he would still be seen as a toxic pick up due to a combo of toxic behavior and the low chance of fixing said toxic behavior that got him into the situation in the first place.
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inb4 bly gets banned for a year, and shit storm starts in ABL.
It's a vicious cycle!
On December 06 2012 05:32 Arekan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:27 wei2coolman wrote:
they have all the leverage, the tournament scene is so centralized around Riot's money, that a ban on Riot tournaments pretty much makes him a toxic pick up for any team. The thing is that even if there was only a one tourney suspension and Dig dropped him because of that, he would still be seen as a toxic pick up due to a combo of toxic behavior and the low chance of fixing said toxic behavior that got him into the situation in the first place.
That's for teams to determine, not Riot to force the issue.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his.
Isn't that just Neo being too lazy to type out No kidding?
If that makes you think Neo is acting out of line, you haven't read anything from some of the SC2 or General forum mods. Sometimes you have to be mean to get your point across being people are just being stubborn for the sake of it.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for. I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending.
"No kid" = "no kidding." As in, he was giving a serious warning. I feel like you're saying that Neo was calling him a kid. He wasn't.
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EPT
