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United States17077 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:29 napo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:18 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:13 Roffles wrote:On December 06 2012 05:10 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 04:58 HazMat wrote:
Bly is right. This would NEVER happen to a player like Dyrus, TOO, or Hotshot even though they are just as toxic if not more. IWD did not have a fan base. He's an easy target for Riot to start their new manner intiative or w.e it is they're doing.
Also, lol@people who think Dyrus or Oddone only bm to their viewers on stream. At the very least IWD doesn't ragequit when a game goes wrong. I haven't seen ANY punishment for Dyrus doing this in front of 10k viewers. And there's a difference between banning someone and ending their career zzz.
It all makes me flashback to when TOO played and trolled with Hackedshotgg. Or when TSM colluted to throw a game. Their punishment was nowhere near severe. I would hope that if Riot is starting a new manner initiative that they wouldn't end it with IWD just to make a point. We can't know this until they make another move, but if HSGG, TOO, or Dyrus came up in the Tribunal as much as IWD seems to have, Riot should ban them too. And I hope they plan to. I guess my point is that just because there are other terrible members of the scene doesn't mean that IWD shouldn't be banned for his own bad behavior. We can only hope that Riot has their heads on their shoulders enough to keep doing their jobs and following their own principles. If not, then yes, fuck this. But ideally they'll punish everyone who was in the same position as IWD. See I on the other hand don't care if players are BM in solo queue. Shit like saying "stfu retard" in a PRO MATCH should be though, and AFAIK Diamond had nothing happen to him from Riot. Or screen peeking at a tourney match. How does Blizzard handle this? Afaik Idra doesn't get banned for bm'ing in ladder matches. I just don't think it's fair to put these players to a higher standard than ourselves. Honestly, I've very rarely heard of Blizzard banning anyone for BM, only for hacking. Yeah, like it should be the team's choice to drop the player if he's hurting the team's image. Stephano got a 1 month ban from competitive play for thay stupid molestation joke by EG, not by Blizzard. (not the best example, like I said I haven't followed SC2 too closely in a while. Maybe Naniwa or Ret trolling and then being punished by their team is a more fitting analogy.) If Dig felt IWD's attitude in solo queue was hurting their image they could have dropped him, but we all know no one cared about his rage. When the rage gets to tournaments then it becomes a problem. Stephano got suspended by the organizations he gets his salary from. Same for IWD. Also trolling/being bm in lol doesn't affect the enemy team most of the time, only your team. Which case is impossible in SC2, this is why we don't see blizzard handing out bans left and right for being bm. Also communicating in lol has a lot to do with the game itself (be it by chatting or by pings), which again isn't the case for sc2. It's just silly to compare the two games, imo.
IWD gets money from Dig as well and it wasn't their choice to ban him, what's your point?
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There's a conflict of interests which is just what happens. Riot both controls the "solo queue" and the "competitive field" other games don't have this to such an extent so there's no precedent to judge this by.
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I'mma F5 Website Feedback, waiting on a NEO IS ABUSING HIS GODGIVEN POWERS thread.
Don't disappoint me, brah
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On December 06 2012 05:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for. I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending. "No kid" = "no kidding." As in, he was giving a serious warning. I feel like you're saying that Neo was calling him a kid. He wasn't.
that is the worst abbreviation ive ever seen if thats true lol. completely changes the tone and meaning
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United States17077 Posts
He meant no kidding. Bly's getting reported because some people don't like him but his points are valid. Luckily Neo realizes that and hasn't pulled the trigger, or so it seems.
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On December 06 2012 05:35 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for. I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending. "No kid" = "no kidding." As in, he was giving a serious warning. I feel like you're saying that Neo was calling him a kid. He wasn't. that is the worst abbreviation ive ever seen if thats true lol. completely changes the tone and meaning
Does that mean no angry website feedback threads?
I sad now
no kid
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On December 06 2012 05:33 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:29 napo wrote:On December 06 2012 05:18 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:13 Roffles wrote:On December 06 2012 05:10 HazMat wrote:On December 06 2012 05:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 04:58 HazMat wrote:
Bly is right. This would NEVER happen to a player like Dyrus, TOO, or Hotshot even though they are just as toxic if not more. IWD did not have a fan base. He's an easy target for Riot to start their new manner intiative or w.e it is they're doing.
Also, lol@people who think Dyrus or Oddone only bm to their viewers on stream. At the very least IWD doesn't ragequit when a game goes wrong. I haven't seen ANY punishment for Dyrus doing this in front of 10k viewers. And there's a difference between banning someone and ending their career zzz.
It all makes me flashback to when TOO played and trolled with Hackedshotgg. Or when TSM colluted to throw a game. Their punishment was nowhere near severe. I would hope that if Riot is starting a new manner initiative that they wouldn't end it with IWD just to make a point. We can't know this until they make another move, but if HSGG, TOO, or Dyrus came up in the Tribunal as much as IWD seems to have, Riot should ban them too. And I hope they plan to. I guess my point is that just because there are other terrible members of the scene doesn't mean that IWD shouldn't be banned for his own bad behavior. We can only hope that Riot has their heads on their shoulders enough to keep doing their jobs and following their own principles. If not, then yes, fuck this. But ideally they'll punish everyone who was in the same position as IWD. See I on the other hand don't care if players are BM in solo queue. Shit like saying "stfu retard" in a PRO MATCH should be though, and AFAIK Diamond had nothing happen to him from Riot. Or screen peeking at a tourney match. How does Blizzard handle this? Afaik Idra doesn't get banned for bm'ing in ladder matches. I just don't think it's fair to put these players to a higher standard than ourselves. Honestly, I've very rarely heard of Blizzard banning anyone for BM, only for hacking. Yeah, like it should be the team's choice to drop the player if he's hurting the team's image. Stephano got a 1 month ban from competitive play for thay stupid molestation joke by EG, not by Blizzard. (not the best example, like I said I haven't followed SC2 too closely in a while. Maybe Naniwa or Ret trolling and then being punished by their team is a more fitting analogy.) If Dig felt IWD's attitude in solo queue was hurting their image they could have dropped him, but we all know no one cared about his rage. When the rage gets to tournaments then it becomes a problem. Stephano got suspended by the organizations he gets his salary from. Same for IWD. Also trolling/being bm in lol doesn't affect the enemy team most of the time, only your team. Which case is impossible in SC2, this is why we don't see blizzard handing out bans left and right for being bm. Also communicating in lol has a lot to do with the game itself (be it by chatting or by pings), which again isn't the case for sc2. It's just silly to compare the two games, imo. IWD gets money from Dig as well and it wasn't their choice to ban him, what's your point?
My point is that it's silly to even compare SC2 to LoL, when talking about being BM.
IWD totally deserved his ban. He was banned/warned 9 times, even the attention of his team was raised about the issue. A simple user can afford something like this, but not a pro-player - if you wanna earn money from them, by playing their game, for which you agreed the EULA, you gotta play by their rules. That simple. It's not at all abusive what Riot did, at any level.
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On December 06 2012 05:27 Pooshlmer wrote:
HazMat, are you suggesting that Riot is somehow misleading us when they say he was 300% worse than the next pro player?
Someone like TheOddOne could've been sent to Tribunal more than IWD and got pardoned every time. We don't really know exact facts about the tribunal.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:38 HazMat wrote:
He meant no kidding. Bly's getting reported because some people don't like him but his points are valid. Luckily Neo realizes that and hasn't pulled the trigger, or so it seems.
I think people are reporting him because he wasn't explaining his reasonable position at first. If he had, I don't think it would've been an issue.
Or people are being stupid. That's also a possibility.
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Good decision by Riot. Seeing as they apparently told IWD and Dig this would happen and IWD still wouldn't change this had to be done.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On December 06 2012 05:38 HazMat wrote:
He meant no kidding. Bly's getting reported because some people don't like him but his points are valid. Luckily Neo realizes that and hasn't pulled the trigger, or so it seems.
Bly was arguing mostly with ITW and he could have pulled the trigger himself if things got really bad. Neo was just being nice and gave him a public warning before things got worse.
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I always see people bring up theoddone and dyrus and while I didnt watch much of Dyrus the past months, oddone is mostly "flaming" his his teammates on stream but doesn't actually type out really toxic shit or goes afk. People that annoy him are just being muted.
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On December 06 2012 05:39 overt wrote:
Someone like TheOddOne could've been sent to Tribunal more than IWD and got pardoned every time. We don't really know exact facts about the tribunal.
If TOO were theoretically to have been sent to Tribunal 50 times and pardoned every time, then he can't be considered as toxic a player as IWD from the Tribunal perspective simply because those pardons would either imply that people somehow knew it was TOO and pardoned him because of that (incredibly unlikely unless his name was mentioned in chat or something) or that the reports were not accurate/ not worthy of punishment.
EDIT: From Riot's perspective, as long as rage/behavioral issues are kept under a certain, extreme point (like serious death threats or something), only the Tribunal is going to matter here, not what people are perceived to be in regards to rage. As an example, say Dyrus is a 9/10 for raging, but IWD is like a 6/10 (these numbers are random and hold no true bearing to reality, just being used as an example). If Dyrus is not sent to reported, sent to Tribunal, and punished, but IWD is, then Riot will see IWD as the more toxic player. The responsibility with how Riot would be handling it then rests on the shoulders of people who queue with Dyrus in this hypothetical scenario to report him for his rage more often so that he is accordingly punished in line with his level of rage.
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I think this is a weird pro/anti authoritarian divide. Some people believe that Riot is trying to serve some personal agenda by banning, while others are willing to take what Riot says at face value.
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On December 06 2012 05:39 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:27 Pooshlmer wrote:
HazMat, are you suggesting that Riot is somehow misleading us when they say he was 300% worse than the next pro player? Someone like TheOddOne could've been sent to Tribunal more than IWD and got pardoned every time. We don't really know exact facts about the tribunal.
Saying that something might have happened as a reason the ban is bad is a pretty terrible argument.
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On December 06 2012 05:53 Pooshlmer wrote:
I think this is a weird pro/anti authoritarian divide. Some people believe that Riot is trying to serve some personal agenda by
banning, while others are willing to take what Riot says at face value.
Their "personal agenda" being making an example of a horribly inmature pro player as to show how they are trying to improve the terrible BM in the community.
But there are some people that feel that calling someone a co** sucking nig*** and the like is just harmless trash talk and that Riot is a horrible authoritarian company for trying to stop that.
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On December 06 2012 06:07 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:53 Pooshlmer wrote:
I think this is a weird pro/anti authoritarian divide. Some people believe that Riot is trying to serve some personal agenda by
banning, while others are willing to take what Riot says at face value. Their "personal agenda" being making an example of a horribly inmature pro player as to show how they are trying to improve the terrible BM in the community. But there are some people that feel that calling someone a co** sucking nig*** and the like is just harmless trash talk and that Riot is a horrible authoritarian company for trying to stop that.
And people were accusing of Bly of strawman >.>
that's such an absurd false dichotomy.
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EDIT:Doublepost on accident.
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On December 06 2012 05:38 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:35 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for. I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending. "No kid" = "no kidding." As in, he was giving a serious warning. I feel like you're saying that Neo was calling him a kid. He wasn't. that is the worst abbreviation ive ever seen if thats true lol. completely changes the tone and meaning Does that mean no angry website feedback threads? I sad now no kid
angry feedback? thats about the biggest waste of time in the world since it just gets trashed/ignored.
Anyways I dont really see how zulu_nation did anything remotely bannable, he didnt personally insult anyone and kept in line, an opinion does not have to be correct.it is simply a viewpoint or judgement from one person.
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On December 06 2012 06:17 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 05:38 Dandel Ion wrote:On December 06 2012 05:35 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:32 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:31 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 05:30 AsmodeusXI wrote:On December 06 2012 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:On December 06 2012 04:37 NeoIllusions wrote:
bly, stop shitting the subforum. No kid.
This has nothing to do with mob mentality.
Edit: I've played with IWD in 3s a bunch of times and he was inflammatory towards my team, constantly spamming "how did you guys get to this elo" in a slightly more profane way.
Edit2: Listening to SotL, will comment here in a moment. Let's just say people are reporting you by the handful, bly. Sometimes you just don't know when to let go. haha "no kid" is that really how moderators act now? riot is not the only one power hungry I see People have a difference in opinion, your opinion is not any more correct than his. As Neo says in a later post, it's because he was getting a ton of reports about bly's posts, not because of his own personal opinions. Also, TL moderators have always acted with that kind of tone, and it isn't a bad thing. Just look at the Ban List. That was also a warning, not an outright forum-level-action, so power-hungry is not the word you're looking for. I just find it ironic that he is talking about IWD being toxic and then using that to address some one, which is just as condescending. "No kid" = "no kidding." As in, he was giving a serious warning. I feel like you're saying that Neo was calling him a kid. He wasn't. that is the worst abbreviation ive ever seen if thats true lol. completely changes the tone and meaning Does that mean no angry website feedback threads? I sad now no kid angry feedback? thats about the biggest waste of time in the world since it just gets trashed/ignored. Anyways I dont really see how zulu_nation did anything remotely bannable, he didnt personally insult anyone and kept in line, an opinion does not have to be correct.it is simply a viewpoint or judgement from one person.
Repeating the same thing over and over while ignoring what everyone else says is pretty bad, it was going that way until his latest posting.
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EPT
