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On December 06 2012 19:48 zer0das wrote:
I hope they just remove sight stone. Really stupid wards are so cheap. Or make oracles 200 gold and last 10 minutes, but that's probably equally as dumb.
keep sightstone, remove normal wards, limit sightstone to two per team and increase cost of both oracles and vision wards.
I never thought unlimited number of wards was a good idea, and making wards cheaper was even worse.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 06 2012 20:45 Badboyrune wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:48 zer0das wrote:
I hope they just remove sight stone. Really stupid wards are so cheap. Or make oracles 200 gold and last 10 minutes, but that's probably equally as dumb. keep sightstone, remove normal wards, limit sightstone to two per team and increase cost of both oracles and vision wards. I never thought unlimited number of wards was a good idea, and making wards cheaper was even worse.
I don't like this because it means you can't start the game with wards. Level 1s can get very coin-flippy if nobody can start the game warding anything.
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On December 06 2012 20:07 TheYango wrote:
It actually sounds really funny to start with a full inventory as a support.
Biscuit+Mastery Ward+Bottle+Pot+Pink Ward+Green Ward, or Biscuit+Mastery Ward++Bottle+2xGreen Ward+HP Pot+Mana Pot
I prefer biscuit+mastery ward +faerie+reju+ward+pot if you want 6 items
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United States47024 Posts
Faerie+Reju seems weak to me. Philo rush doesn't feel convincing when Bottle covers your regen needs, Sightstone generates almost gold value almost twice as quickly, and Shurelya's is a lot worse than before.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I just want to say that I still think Shurelya's is a good item, just not one you should rush. Probably build it as 3rd or 2nd item depending on how your and enemies team engages and disengages. The active is still super strong, it just doesn't give you enough stats for it to be your first item.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 06 2012 21:20 Scip wrote:
I just want to say that I still think Shurelya's is a good item, just not one you should rush. Probably build it as 3rd or 2nd item depending on how your and enemies team engages and disengages. The active is still super strong, it just doesn't give you enough stats for it to be your first item.
Yeah, I agree. It's still an active your team needs lategame, but the reduced stats/gold makes it really awkward to buy first because of how it hurts your overall combat effectiveness.
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On December 06 2012 21:00 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 20:45 Badboyrune wrote:On December 06 2012 19:48 zer0das wrote:
I hope they just remove sight stone. Really stupid wards are so cheap. Or make oracles 200 gold and last 10 minutes, but that's probably equally as dumb. keep sightstone, remove normal wards, limit sightstone to two per team and increase cost of both oracles and vision wards. I never thought unlimited number of wards was a good idea, and making wards cheaper was even worse. I don't like this because it means you can't start the game with wards. Level 1s can get very coin-flippy if nobody can start the game warding anything.
Well there would still be the mastery wards and vision wards. If it really turned out to be a problem you could add a limited supply of normal wards at the start that doesnt replenish.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I don't know why we are discussing what should change anyways.
The patch is out for what, 3 days? And it changed majority of game aspects in quite a significant way. I think passing judgment over that is kind of premature. No one is playing even close to optimal right now and it's really hard to tell what playstyles are going to become standard. I'd say giving it time to figure things out is more constructive (and in my opinion more satisfying) than instantly jumping the gun on aspects you don't immediately start to like.
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On December 06 2012 21:47 Scip wrote:
I don't know why we are discussing what should change anyways.
The patch is out for what, 3 days? And it changed majority of game aspects in quite a significant way. I think passing judgment over that is kind of premature. No one is playing even close to optimal right now and it's really hard to tell what playstyles are going to become standard. I'd say giving it time to figure things out is more constructive (and in my opinion more satisfying) than instantly jumping the gun on aspects you don't immediately start to like.
1. i agree with you completely, however
2. welcome to the interwebs
People love judging first and checking facts later 
Its gonna be like this after every patch, this one is just a little bigger.
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On December 06 2012 21:47 Scip wrote:
I don't know why we are discussing what should change anyways.
The patch is out for what, 3 days? And it changed majority of game aspects in quite a significant way. I think passing judgment over that is kind of premature. No one is playing even close to optimal right now and it's really hard to tell what playstyles are going to become standard. I'd say giving it time to figure things out is more constructive (and in my opinion more satisfying) than instantly jumping the gun on aspects you don't immediately start to like.
BUT WARDING IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT
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Philo isn't the only thing that builds out of faerie. Chalice does too now. And chalice buillds into crucible, which is absolutely incredible.
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how does evelynn's Q work? I am on smartcast and can i aim the direction i want?
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I really, like how they changed the support role and warding, because now you have to counterward smartly with pinks instead (like it should be) instead of just running around with oracles.
smart ward placement and counterwarding is a skillset where supports can now compete. As opposed to pre s3 where supports only did that in the first few minutes until the first oracles appreared.
Inventory management will be a bit difficult though. With possible (iam hopeful) shift from oracles to pinks, you have 1 less slot. With the addition of flask you have 1 slot which you want to keep for quite some time.
This is where the new miracle can come in handy when you have at least heal or cv (both of which have improved for supports).
Oracles probably still will be bought regularly but much later in the game, where sticking 4-5 people together is mandatory. The earlyish roam-oracle will be a risk-reward decision and not a no-brainer. This is when the pink ward slot can free up to grab some stats or something. But hell early on A support inventory will be stuffed!
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On December 06 2012 15:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:21 chalice wrote:On December 06 2012 14:35 NeoIllusions wrote:
Twin Shadows Taric sup?
Always stun, never not stun. just stun? twin shadows nautilus is where it's at, never miss a hook, ult people in bushes, use your own slow once the active wears off, then root them with your auto attacks just because you can. i've been running twin shadows naut and loving it, building spirit stone golem + mobo boots with homeguard/captain into shadows and bulwak naut feels so powerful in the jungle now, i looooooooooooove it
How fast does he clear? Are the 20 more HP on his shield really enough that he can do his thing reliably? When the shield's broken his slow as fuck and the big monster having more HP and damage means they're more likely to survive the shield and then take ages to kill.
Also Evelynn's Q fires in the direction of the nearest "priority" target, ie champions > whatever you're attacking > minions (switch the first two maybe, I don't remember well but the wiki does).
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On December 06 2012 22:42 seRapH wrote:
Philo isn't the only thing that builds out of faerie. Chalice does too now. And chalice buillds into crucible, which is absolutely incredible.
I tried a Faerie/Flask start on Zyra mid yesterday. Was kinda lulzy (I think flask is a stupid item), and I got a nice early chalice and then guise.
Still not sure how I feel about all the changes. It's weird going 9/0/21 as a mid...
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On December 06 2012 19:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:22 Sareth wrote:
Is it just me or is the role of a jungler different from before?
In S2 the main-aspect was to gank/countergank, but due to the sightstone and esp. the big nerf to the oracle i don't see a lot of successfull ganks happen in S3.
But if you pick jungler with a fast clear like Shyv, Amumu or Mundo and just farm/counterjungle/hold lanes when your laners go buy you're gonna have still quite a few items even without any kills/assists.
So as a jungler its now just farming for the lategame? Boring...
I really hate the nerf to oracle... The Oracle's nerf, Sightstone, and CV buff all contribute to providing low-cost, undeniable vision, which could have a very detrimental impact on gameplay at high levels once people fully utilize their potential. Something has to give. The potential for lategame stalemate is very high if everyone's playing a game of complete information, because nobody has to commit to fights they can't win with perfect vision.
In DotA wards last longer, give more vision, and are cheaper. And the games are way more action packed. Vision is not the problem.
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On December 06 2012 23:29 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:43 TheYango wrote:On December 06 2012 19:22 Sareth wrote:
Is it just me or is the role of a jungler different from before?
In S2 the main-aspect was to gank/countergank, but due to the sightstone and esp. the big nerf to the oracle i don't see a lot of successfull ganks happen in S3.
But if you pick jungler with a fast clear like Shyv, Amumu or Mundo and just farm/counterjungle/hold lanes when your laners go buy you're gonna have still quite a few items even without any kills/assists.
So as a jungler its now just farming for the lategame? Boring...
I really hate the nerf to oracle... The Oracle's nerf, Sightstone, and CV buff all contribute to providing low-cost, undeniable vision, which could have a very detrimental impact on gameplay at high levels once people fully utilize their potential. Something has to give. The potential for lategame stalemate is very high if everyone's playing a game of complete information, because nobody has to commit to fights they can't win with perfect vision. In DotA wards last longer, give more vision, and are cheaper. And the games are way more action packed. Vision is not the problem.
yeah but the map is huge and you can carve a path through trees in some scenarios 
(or blink around them)
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On December 06 2012 23:29 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:43 TheYango wrote:On December 06 2012 19:22 Sareth wrote:
Is it just me or is the role of a jungler different from before?
In S2 the main-aspect was to gank/countergank, but due to the sightstone and esp. the big nerf to the oracle i don't see a lot of successfull ganks happen in S3.
But if you pick jungler with a fast clear like Shyv, Amumu or Mundo and just farm/counterjungle/hold lanes when your laners go buy you're gonna have still quite a few items even without any kills/assists.
So as a jungler its now just farming for the lategame? Boring...
I really hate the nerf to oracle... The Oracle's nerf, Sightstone, and CV buff all contribute to providing low-cost, undeniable vision, which could have a very detrimental impact on gameplay at high levels once people fully utilize their potential. Something has to give. The potential for lategame stalemate is very high if everyone's playing a game of complete information, because nobody has to commit to fights they can't win with perfect vision. In DotA wards last longer, give more vision, and are cheaper. And the games are way more action packed. Vision is not the problem.
Yeah, and there's also a ward cap, and the map is huge. I don't see your point.
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On December 06 2012 22:44 justiceknight wrote:
how does evelynn's Q work? I am on smartcast and can i aim the direction i want?
I think it auto targets the last target you focused, or the one with lowest health.
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On December 06 2012 23:13 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:42 seRapH wrote:
Philo isn't the only thing that builds out of faerie. Chalice does too now. And chalice buillds into crucible, which is absolutely incredible. I tried a Faerie/Flask start on Zyra mid yesterday. Was kinda lulzy (I think flask is a stupid item), and I got a nice early chalice and then guise. Still not sure how I feel about all the changes. It's weird going 9/0/21 as a mid...
Weren't you there in s1?
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EPT
