|
United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.
I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down. Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them. Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana. The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1) Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition.
While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this.
Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.
|
Why didnt they make the range of her lunar rush as big as her Cresent Strike. ~Diana
Now the whole balance between those spells is incomplete.
|
On December 14 2012 07:42 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 07:11 Doctorbeat wrote:
Nami reminds me a lot of Janna in that sense. A lot of ADC don't know how to play with her, and you really need to focus on the timing of your skills. Can't just spam everything and aim for the stars *cough cough Taric*. There's also the fact that both boost ally movement speed, and both have greatt CC but it's hard to get them to land right. Janna and Nami ult can both be missed quite easily. i always played janna defensively. i only used janna ult to peel or to heal in teamfights, which was very situational since you didn't want to push people out of kills. only when i'm winning do i try for DA PLAYZ and flash ult to separate the team or stop someone from running. that said, i find nami more of an initiator than a peeler, and in-lane she's more like sona than anyone else. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:43 Seuss wrote:
The fact that Nami's harass and sustain are both the same spell makes her very strong. The only thing that stops it from being overpowered is the positioning requirement, which really isn't that big of a deal. i always found myself running out of mana in lane, even with phil stone/flask. wondering if i'm doing something wrong. maybe too many bubbles. but yeah, i thought that mana issues were what kept her from being OP in lane. the only comment i have on patch notes is "-Consumable items now display a stack count in the scoreboard" kinda don't like that. after playing so much dota i feel like it's so easy to see what other people have, now you can see their stacks on tab it's even easier.
I disagree here. The information is already there, just more annoying to get. Making stuff annoying to do through the interface is generally not a good idea in my opinion.
|
On December 14 2012 08:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.
I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down. Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them. Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana. The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1) Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition. While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this. Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.
but..... we can still laugh at the absurdity of vines growing faster than the speed of light right?
|
On December 14 2012 08:12 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:02 Seuss wrote:
Random Tangent: Does anyone know if Shard of True Ice's active is hidden by stealth? i assume it'd work the exact way absolute zero does. no notice except the slow and the little icon on your bar. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:]
Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition. Riot meeting: sooo this new champion uses plants, and she'll have a snare like lux and morgana, but it'll snare everything it touches, how fast should it move? well, you said lux and morgana right? i see no reason why vines shouldn't move faster than light and the absence of light.
Real Riot Meeting:
"You said lux and morgana right? Well those two champs can be played as support, this needs to be strong, you know, for mid."
...Months later
"Zyra is getting a lot of support play now, AND can even use gold effectively from that position. And now supports are actually getting gold because of changes we made intentionally. How can we crush her before support players start having too much fun?"
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 14 2012 08:23 Simberto wrote:
I disagree here. The information is already there, just more annoying to get. Making stuff annoying to do through the interface is generally not a good idea in my opinion.
While I have mixed opinions on the issue of champion inventories displaying on the scoreboard, I will point out that the most notable relevant case is the fact that the scoreboard inventory tracking auto-updates every time the champion comes in and out of vision. You could argue that it's somewhat unfair for you to have knowledge of the enemy having placed some # of their wards without the player having made some conscious effort to check. That's fairly valuable information that you could argue a player should have to consciously remember to check for in order to obtain.
|
Dat smite buff finally 1k flat damage on par with Chogath's Feast to stop bs steals
|
On December 14 2012 08:27 MooMooMugi wrote:
Dat smite buff finally 1k flat damage on par with Chogath's Feast to stop bs steals
You still need to be level 18 for that
Compare to nunu who has level 5 nom, 900 damage on a low cooldown
|
Cho finally getting nerfed? Can't say I didn't see that coming.
|
On December 14 2012 08:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.
I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down. Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them. Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana. The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1) Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition. While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this. Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.
I am not complaining because how it compares to Morgana and Lux, but Zyra's E was simply way too fast for a pass-through skillshot that also snares. I remember her first day of release I tried to lane against (iirc) Waveofshadow's Zyra, it was a complete nightmare because he could just pretend he was playing Cassiopeia and snare me when I try to last hit. Once a snare lands there goes a full combo that chips 50% of my health. Of course that was Zyra on release and her damage was then nerfed in a hotfix, but the problem remained.
I think Zyra needs more nerfs. She is such a faceroll champion. You just press a few buttons and do sustained DPS through your plants while you run around and laugh.
|
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
What, Cho'Gath nerfs? Really? He wasn't even that strong in the jungle, let alone lanes lol. Well, I guess I won't complain until the strong champions that I use are nerfed (Amumu Nunu stronk)
|
On December 14 2012 08:41 Scip wrote:
What, Cho'Gath nerfs? Really? He wasn't even that strong in the jungle, let alone lanes lol. Well, I guess I won't complain until the strong champions that I use are nerfed (Amumu Nunu stronk)
cho is obnoxious and fucking op i hope they nerf him more
|
Again NA cant make their own setups..... crs is stealing from the fnatic comps!
|
On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.
just as I got DVD on sale too T_T
|
overboard on those diana nerfs imo
|
I predict rengar being terrible and never played after this patch until they buff him some time in the distant future
|
and voyboy dont know how the comp works.
|
On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.
Well, currently if she lands a Q on you, YOU RUN AS IF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE DEVIL. That seems a little... weird, if you will.
|
On December 14 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz. Well, currently if she lands a Q on you, YOU RUN AS IF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE DEVIL. That seems a little... weird, if you will.
I know, but now you can't even follow up your Q with your ult on top of reduced dmg, and decreased E Range. She's probably shittier than Akali now lol.
Only reducing her base Dmg on Q+R and maybe higher Mana cost on Q would have been better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
