• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:16
CEST 23:16
KST 06:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic2Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 2 - RO8 - Group A RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Wizard Hilton Cybertech Crypto Recovery: Proven Re
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 28782 users

[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 209

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 207 208 209 210 211 212 Next
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 13 2012 23:20 GMT
#4161
On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:
On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.

I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down.


Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them.

Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana.


The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1)


Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition.

While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this.

Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.
Moderator
ExoFun
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2041 Posts
December 13 2012 23:22 GMT
#4162
Why didnt they make the range of her lunar rush as big as her Cresent Strike. ~Diana

Now the whole balance between those spells is incomplete.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11450 Posts
December 13 2012 23:23 GMT
#4163
On December 14 2012 07:42 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 07:11 Doctorbeat wrote:
Nami reminds me a lot of Janna in that sense. A lot of ADC don't know how to play with her, and you really need to focus on the timing of your skills. Can't just spam everything and aim for the stars *cough cough Taric*. There's also the fact that both boost ally movement speed, and both have greatt CC but it's hard to get them to land right. Janna and Nami ult can both be missed quite easily.

i always played janna defensively. i only used janna ult to peel or to heal in teamfights, which was very situational since you didn't want to push people out of kills. only when i'm winning do i try for DA PLAYZ and flash ult to separate the team or stop someone from running.

that said, i find nami more of an initiator than a peeler, and in-lane she's more like sona than anyone else.

Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 06:43 Seuss wrote:
The fact that Nami's harass and sustain are both the same spell makes her very strong. The only thing that stops it from being overpowered is the positioning requirement, which really isn't that big of a deal.

i always found myself running out of mana in lane, even with phil stone/flask. wondering if i'm doing something wrong. maybe too many bubbles. but yeah, i thought that mana issues were what kept her from being OP in lane.



the only comment i have on patch notes is
"-Consumable items now display a stack count in the scoreboard"
kinda don't like that. after playing so much dota i feel like it's so easy to see what other people have, now you can see their stacks on tab it's even easier.




I disagree here. The information is already there, just more annoying to get. Making stuff annoying to do through the interface is generally not a good idea in my opinion.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 13 2012 23:24 GMT
#4164
On December 14 2012 08:20 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:
On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:
On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.

I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down.


Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them.

Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana.


The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1)


Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition.

While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this.

Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.

but..... we can still laugh at the absurdity of vines growing faster than the speed of light right?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19573 Posts
December 13 2012 23:25 GMT
#4165
On December 14 2012 08:12 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:02 Seuss wrote:
Random Tangent: Does anyone know if Shard of True Ice's active is hidden by stealth?

i assume it'd work the exact way absolute zero does. no notice except the slow and the little icon on your bar.
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:]

Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition.

Riot meeting:

sooo this new champion uses plants, and she'll have a snare like lux and morgana, but it'll snare everything it touches, how fast should it move?

well, you said lux and morgana right? i see no reason why vines shouldn't move faster than light and the absence of light.


Real Riot Meeting:

"You said lux and morgana right? Well those two champs can be played as support, this needs to be strong, you know, for mid."

...Months later

"Zyra is getting a lot of support play now, AND can even use gold effectively from that position. And now supports are actually getting gold because of changes we made intentionally. How can we crush her before support players start having too much fun?"
Freeeeeeedom
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 13 2012 23:27 GMT
#4166
On December 14 2012 08:23 Simberto wrote:
I disagree here. The information is already there, just more annoying to get. Making stuff annoying to do through the interface is generally not a good idea in my opinion.

While I have mixed opinions on the issue of champion inventories displaying on the scoreboard, I will point out that the most notable relevant case is the fact that the scoreboard inventory tracking auto-updates every time the champion comes in and out of vision. You could argue that it's somewhat unfair for you to have knowledge of the enemy having placed some # of their wards without the player having made some conscious effort to check. That's fairly valuable information that you could argue a player should have to consciously remember to check for in order to obtain.
Moderator
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
December 13 2012 23:27 GMT
#4167
Dat smite buff finally 1k flat damage on par with Chogath's Feast to stop bs steals
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
December 13 2012 23:33 GMT
#4168
On December 14 2012 08:27 MooMooMugi wrote:
Dat smite buff finally 1k flat damage on par with Chogath's Feast to stop bs steals

You still need to be level 18 for that

Compare to nunu who has level 5 nom, 900 damage on a low cooldown
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
December 13 2012 23:35 GMT
#4169
Cho finally getting nerfed? Can't say I didn't see that coming.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 13 2012 23:39 GMT
#4170
On December 14 2012 08:20 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:11 Amui wrote:
On December 14 2012 08:05 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 14 2012 08:04 Parametric wrote:
On December 14 2012 07:55 Ryalnos wrote:
Personally glad Zyra got off relatively lightly.

I'll have to see how much harder it makes it to hit her snare, but at least it's not a range nerf or something. Her passive is kinda crazy so it makes sense that they're toning it down.


Imo it could've been a range nerf instead of the missile speed. Sometimes her E hits people beyond the actual animation and it's so far away i can't even Q them.

Either way the entire patch seems like good changes, although i'm biased since i hate diana.


The missile speed nerf was needed. Her E was going off way too fast (I complained about it since her release on D1)


Yeah that was one of the biggest complaints IIRC. Morgana snare goes a bit further, but it's single target and only went 1200. Lux is roughly the same range as zyra snare, also 1200, 2 targets. Dunno how riot decided that a multi-target snare should move faster than single/double targeted snares that you can outposition.

While I'm not going to discuss whether it's valid in this particular case, I will say that this is a very common approach to champ balance that is extremely flawed. You cannot compare X spell on champion A to Y spell on champion B, see that B is much stronger, and then consider this as a balance/design problem. Champions are balanced around their kits on the whole, not on the individual components. It's perfectly acceptable to have spells that are strictly better than their counterparts on other champs, provided you give the rest of the champ kit appropriate weaknesses to counteract this.

Requiring similar spells to have similar power level without considering the rest of the kit is what leads to stale designs. Allowing yourself the design space to create lopsided kits where one spell is more powerful than comparable spells on other champs, and compensating in other areas of the champ kit creates room for far more interesting champs.



I am not complaining because how it compares to Morgana and Lux, but Zyra's E was simply way too fast for a pass-through skillshot that also snares. I remember her first day of release I tried to lane against (iirc) Waveofshadow's Zyra, it was a complete nightmare because he could just pretend he was playing Cassiopeia and snare me when I try to last hit. Once a snare lands there goes a full combo that chips 50% of my health. Of course that was Zyra on release and her damage was then nerfed in a hotfix, but the problem remained.

I think Zyra needs more nerfs. She is such a faceroll champion. You just press a few buttons and do sustained DPS through your plants while you run around and laugh.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
December 13 2012 23:40 GMT
#4171
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
December 13 2012 23:41 GMT
#4172
What, Cho'Gath nerfs? Really? He wasn't even that strong in the jungle, let alone lanes lol. Well, I guess I won't complain until the strong champions that I use are nerfed (Amumu Nunu stronk)
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 13 2012 23:42 GMT
#4173
On December 14 2012 08:41 Scip wrote:
What, Cho'Gath nerfs? Really? He wasn't even that strong in the jungle, let alone lanes lol. Well, I guess I won't complain until the strong champions that I use are nerfed (Amumu Nunu stronk)

cho is obnoxious and fucking op i hope they nerf him more
ExoFun
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2041 Posts
December 13 2012 23:46 GMT
#4174
Again NA cant make their own setups..... crs is stealing from the fnatic comps!
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
December 13 2012 23:46 GMT
#4175
On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.


just as I got DVD on sale too T_T
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 13 2012 23:50 GMT
#4176
overboard on those diana nerfs imo
Perplex
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1693 Posts
December 13 2012 23:51 GMT
#4177
I predict rengar being terrible and never played after this patch until they buff him some time in the distant future
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24238059
ExoFun
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2041 Posts
December 13 2012 23:51 GMT
#4178
and voyboy dont know how the comp works.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
December 13 2012 23:54 GMT
#4179
On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.


Well, currently if she lands a Q on you, YOU RUN AS IF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE DEVIL. That seems a little... weird, if you will.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
AsnSensation
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany24009 Posts
December 13 2012 23:58 GMT
#4180
On December 14 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 08:40 AsnSensation wrote:
wtf... why would you ever go Diana now. literally every skill got nerfed lol riot plz.


Well, currently if she lands a Q on you, YOU RUN AS IF YOU ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM THE DEVIL. That seems a little... weird, if you will.


I know, but now you can't even follow up your Q with your ult on top of reduced dmg, and decreased E Range. She's probably shittier than Akali now lol.

Only reducing her base Dmg on Q+R and maybe higher Mana cost on Q would have been better.
Prev 1 207 208 209 210 211 212 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub192
UpATreeSC 138
ForJumy 81
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 4837
Calm 2425
Rain 1262
Mini 392
Dewaltoss 117
Soulkey 64
Aegong 39
TY 23
NaDa 10
Dota 2
capcasts110
NeuroSwarm57
Counter-Strike
Dendi1514
flusha534
Foxcn298
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu640
Khaldor175
Other Games
tarik_tv54002
gofns41479
summit1g5736
Grubby3899
FrodaN1031
shahzam521
mouzStarbuck301
ViBE24
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4869
Other Games
BasetradeTV190
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 47
• davetesta27
• Reevou 3
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 44
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22120
League of Legends
• Doublelift3244
• Jankos2213
• TFBlade1487
Other Games
• imaqtpie1426
• Shiphtur395
Upcoming Events
Online Event
2h 44m
Replay Cast
4h 44m
GSL Code S
12h 14m
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
12h 44m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 13h
OSC
1d 15h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
SOOP
2 days
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Cheesadelphia
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
GSL Code S
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
6 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.