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[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 160

Forum Index > LoL General
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arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 22 2012 10:34 GMT
#3181
are people really using pay to win in league?

jesus christ
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
November 22 2012 10:43 GMT
#3182
On November 22 2012 19:07 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 19:02 jadoth wrote:
On November 22 2012 18:38 shinarit wrote:
On November 22 2012 18:31 BlueSpace wrote:
Obviously people can't be allowed to save the replay while playing, so they would have to save all games and keep them until the players decide whether or not to download the replay. I don't know how much additional server load/server storage this is, but it could be an issue I guess. The frequent login queues kind of indicate that they are at a limit regarding server capacity and they may have decided to not implement features that will further strain their servers. Pure speculation though...


Why is that?


If you are sending all the data needed to make a replay to someones pc then they can create a program to look at that data and tell them things they should not be able to know, ie, maphacks.

This is fine so long as the info is sent/saved with a delay a la spectator mode.




they can just send it encrypted with a random 64bit code or something and at the end of the game decrypt it.
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
November 22 2012 11:08 GMT
#3183
That's not really an option-- doubling the bandwidth required to each client for each game is really not feasible (I assume, given the scale of everything they're doing).

Here's what I think the best solution is for this whole replay thing:

Each game has a server-side replay recorded and stored on the server no matter what. At the postgame screen, each player has the option to download the replay and save it locally. Once a player leaves the postgame screen they no longer have the option to download the replay-- so, once every player has left the postgame screen (or an hour has passed, say), the server-side replay can be deleted.

No need to waste excessive bandwidth by sending delayed obs data to each client regardless of whether or not they want a replay, not too much server space wasted b/c of how temporary and small each replay is, and everyone gets the chance to download the replay for any game they play-- ranked, normal, dominion, or whatever.

Custom games can easily be configured to not record replays, too! Seems like this method provides every feature a replay system needs without exposing too much data to the clients or putting too heavy a load on the servers.
:3
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 22 2012 11:11 GMT
#3184
The thing is, the game more or less already has to send delayed obs data anyway for spectator mode. Isn't this how lolreplay works now anyway?
Moderator
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 22 2012 11:11 GMT
#3185
On November 22 2012 19:25 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 19:19 Sufficiency wrote:
On November 22 2012 18:58 TSBspartacus wrote:
On November 22 2012 09:56 Requizen wrote:


Well... holy fuck.

Good god that skin is gorgeous.

God damn you Riot this may have to be the first legendary skin I buy.


Another pay-to-win skin. It seems that his W animation and his passive animation are the same (he spins), and the spellshield looks far less obvious than the classic skin's. It's going to be a bitch trying to see if he W'ed or not.

To me the shield looks much more obvious in the legendary skin actually :o


Yea my instant reaction was "wow the fear/shield are far more obvious".
shinarit
Profile Joined May 2010
Hungary900 Posts
November 22 2012 11:12 GMT
#3186
On November 22 2012 20:08 Eiii wrote:
That's not really an option-- doubling the bandwidth required to each client for each game is really not feasible (I assume, given the scale of everything they're doing).

Here's what I think the best solution is for this whole replay thing:

Each game has a server-side replay recorded and stored on the server no matter what. At the postgame screen, each player has the option to download the replay and save it locally. Once a player leaves the postgame screen they no longer have the option to download the replay-- so, once every player has left the postgame screen (or an hour has passed, say), the server-side replay can be deleted.

No need to waste excessive bandwidth by sending delayed obs data to each client regardless of whether or not they want a replay, not too much server space wasted b/c of how temporary and small each replay is, and everyone gets the chance to download the replay for any game they play-- ranked, normal, dominion, or whatever.

Custom games can easily be configured to not record replays, too! Seems like this method provides every feature a replay system needs without exposing too much data to the clients or putting too heavy a load on the servers.


Yeah, that was my thought too. The server records (of course it does, otherwise the before mentioned hacks became possible), and you can download only after the game. But i strongly believe that they do some recording, because when Lyte comes and speaks about people's behavior, he makes statements based on other facts than chatlogs.
T for BoxeR, Z for IdrA, P because i have no self-respect
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
November 22 2012 11:27 GMT
#3187
Oh yeah, there's no question that they have the ability to record arbitrary games. But they probably have a custom admin client that just does it client-side-- I doubt the infrastructure to record on the server side is implemented at the moment.

Or maybe they're much farther along with this whole replay thing than I thought, who knows!
:3
Wetty
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia419 Posts
November 22 2012 11:28 GMT
#3188
On November 22 2012 20:11 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, the game more or less already has to send delayed obs data anyway for spectator mode. Isn't this how lolreplay works now anyway?


Not sure how LoL replay currently works - but surely they don't send delayed obs data to someone whos actually in the game - because it would be a waste of bandwidth. This data would just be available to people who want to spectate. Maybe LoLreplay just downloads it like any other spectator would, but I can't riot sending it to everyone by default, because you don't need that data if you're playing in the match.
BlueSpace
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2182 Posts
November 22 2012 13:18 GMT
#3189
Encrypting the data is definitely possible I think but it will require some work server-side which again might limit the number of concurrent games they are able to run overall. There is also of course the question on how secure you can make it and so on.

Delaying the data is also possible but you still need to store a certain amount which is determined by the delay time and you would have to delete the data while the game is running because otherwise you end up saving the entire game anyway. So people would have to say before the game if they want to save the replay and you will actually increase the bandwidth which is required to play. So people that have replay-save enabled might suddenly start lagging because they need to receive current information and past information for the replay-save. This makes time-delayed client-side saving really awkward I think.

I'm pretty sure they could implement the save replay for spectator feature almost on the spot. I mean you can spectate and at the end of the game you can just go to the beginning and rewatch the entire thing, so obviously that data is stored somewhere, although I don't know if that is server side or not. But maybe that is already in the pipes for the big Season 3 annoucements. In any case, they should implement it, even if you can't save the replays of games that you're actually playing.
Probe1: "Because people are opinionated and love to share their thoughts. Then they read someone else agree with them and get their opinion confused with fact."
Blyf
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Denmark408 Posts
November 22 2012 13:25 GMT
#3190
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.
"ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin --- wtf? begets isn't a word. quit trying to make up words, fuckface. - Some idiot --- D3 Evelynn main with a side of Ashe/Tristana
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12026 Posts
November 22 2012 13:28 GMT
#3191
On November 22 2012 22:18 BlueSpace wrote:
Encrypting the data is definitely possible I think but it will require some work server-side which again might limit the number of concurrent games they are able to run overall. There is also of course the question on how secure you can make it and so on.

Delaying the data is also possible but you still need to store a certain amount which is determined by the delay time and you would have to delete the data while the game is running because otherwise you end up saving the entire game anyway. So people would have to say before the game if they want to save the replay and you will actually increase the bandwidth which is required to play. So people that have replay-save enabled might suddenly start lagging because they need to receive current information and past information for the replay-save. This makes time-delayed client-side saving really awkward I think.

I'm pretty sure they could implement the save replay for spectator feature almost on the spot. I mean you can spectate and at the end of the game you can just go to the beginning and rewatch the entire thing, so obviously that data is stored somewhere, although I don't know if that is server side or not. But maybe that is already in the pipes for the big Season 3 annoucements. In any case, they should implement it, even if you can't save the replays of games that you're actually playing.


You can already save the replays of your own streams with lolreplay, which apparently just watches spectator data from your games. (This also means that any cheating program that works off of 3 minute delayed spectator data could already do that now, since you are apparently already able to get that data)

I have had lolreplay running for a while, and never had a problem with lag, though i have pretty fast internet too. So i doubt that there are any big theoretical problems with implementing a replay feature that saves the replay delayed. Or, as someone else said, enable you to download the replay in the postgame screen. Of course, they need to program this stuff, but i would assume that it eventually arrives. The way they implemented spectator mode lets me believe that it will probably be cooler then most of the things we are imagining at the moment. For spectator mode, they could easily have put in some basic thing, and everyone would have been happy with it, but instead they really innovated and delivered a lot of features people didn't even think of before, so i hope they do something similarly good with the replay system, and am willing to wait for it. Until then, Lolreplay works just fine.
BlueSpace
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2182 Posts
November 22 2012 13:52 GMT
#3192
On November 22 2012 22:28 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 22:18 BlueSpace wrote:
Encrypting the data is definitely possible I think but it will require some work server-side which again might limit the number of concurrent games they are able to run overall. There is also of course the question on how secure you can make it and so on.

Delaying the data is also possible but you still need to store a certain amount which is determined by the delay time and you would have to delete the data while the game is running because otherwise you end up saving the entire game anyway. So people would have to say before the game if they want to save the replay and you will actually increase the bandwidth which is required to play. So people that have replay-save enabled might suddenly start lagging because they need to receive current information and past information for the replay-save. This makes time-delayed client-side saving really awkward I think.

I'm pretty sure they could implement the save replay for spectator feature almost on the spot. I mean you can spectate and at the end of the game you can just go to the beginning and rewatch the entire thing, so obviously that data is stored somewhere, although I don't know if that is server side or not. But maybe that is already in the pipes for the big Season 3 annoucements. In any case, they should implement it, even if you can't save the replays of games that you're actually playing.


You can already save the replays of your own streams with lolreplay, which apparently just watches spectator data from your games. (This also means that any cheating program that works off of 3 minute delayed spectator data could already do that now, since you are apparently already able to get that data)

I have had lolreplay running for a while, and never had a problem with lag, though i have pretty fast internet too. So i doubt that there are any big theoretical problems with implementing a replay feature that saves the replay delayed. Or, as someone else said, enable you to download the replay in the postgame screen. Of course, they need to program this stuff, but i would assume that it eventually arrives. The way they implemented spectator mode lets me believe that it will probably be cooler then most of the things we are imagining at the moment. For spectator mode, they could easily have put in some basic thing, and everyone would have been happy with it, but instead they really innovated and delivered a lot of features people didn't even think of before, so i hope they do something similarly good with the replay system, and am willing to wait for it. Until then, Lolreplay works just fine.

Ok I didn't know they already streamed the spectator data, then it should indeed be straightforward to implement the rest. So you're probably right, that they want the feature to be extra-cool. Maybe they are planning on expanding the client somehow so that replay watching is really cool and groovy? Who knows, lets hope for something awesome :D
Probe1: "Because people are opinionated and love to share their thoughts. Then they read someone else agree with them and get their opinion confused with fact."
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
November 22 2012 13:54 GMT
#3193
On November 22 2012 22:25 Blyf wrote:
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.

Dude, that shit is terrifying. I'm going to have nightmares of shrimps.
BW -> League -> CSGO
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
November 22 2012 14:05 GMT
#3194
On November 22 2012 22:54 wussleeQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 22:25 Blyf wrote:
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.

Dude, that shit is terrifying. I'm going to have nightmares of shrimps.

This skin is the closest thing to a legendary I have actually thought of purchasing.
But then I remember: "$20 for cosmetic change lol"
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 22 2012 14:09 GMT
#3195
On November 22 2012 22:54 wussleeQ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 22:25 Blyf wrote:
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.

Dude, that shit is terrifying. I'm going to have nightmares of shrimps.

Friend said it looked like Giratina Origin Forme from Pokemon Platinum
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-22 14:26:17
November 22 2012 14:25 GMT
#3196
Fwiw I remember saying before Spec Mode came out that Riot had the ability to split server data to two separate places which got around the map hacking issue and preserved the ability to only have a single set of data be sent to the players. A similar arrangement can be made for replays. Main issue I think is logistics in how to distribute them and backwards compatibility after each patch.

On November 22 2012 23:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 22:54 wussleeQ wrote:
On November 22 2012 22:25 Blyf wrote:
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.

Dude, that shit is terrifying. I'm going to have nightmares of shrimps.

This skin is the closest thing to a legendary I have actually thought of purchasing.
But then I remember: "$20 for cosmetic change lol"

In Caldeum, colour means wealth! You don't want to look like a peasant, do you?
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
November 22 2012 14:30 GMT
#3197
"I'm gonna win 10 games in a row now" -Boyboy

----->

Duo's with Pooksie -.-
wat
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 22 2012 14:50 GMT
#3198
Noc's passive is pretty telling... if you look at his target: there's a little passive icon that appears on them during the attack.

On November 22 2012 10:03 Sufficiency wrote:
http://soraka.blogspot.mx/2012/11/tales-of-valoran-19.html

Show nested quote +
DOESN'T MATTER HAD SEX

I had forgotten to check out on this one for awhile, thank you, that webcomic is so good. <3
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
November 22 2012 15:02 GMT
#3199
On November 22 2012 23:05 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 22 2012 22:54 wussleeQ wrote:
On November 22 2012 22:25 Blyf wrote:
Why does legendary Nocturne have a peeled shrimp for a tail? "Oh no, giant shrimp coming to get me" lol.

Dude, that shit is terrifying. I'm going to have nightmares of shrimps.

This skin is the closest thing to a legendary I have actually thought of purchasing.
But then I remember: "$20 for cosmetic change lol"

If you think about how much people pay to get their hair/nails done it's actually kind of reasonable
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 22 2012 15:19 GMT
#3200
On November 22 2012 19:34 arb wrote:
are people really using pay to win in league?

jesus christ

People will whine about anything.
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