• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:25
CET 01:25
KST 09:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book SC2 Power Rank: epic29 Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BW General Discussion Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness" Rollback Netcode in Brood War SCHNAIL now supports Remastered
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10538 users

[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page 25

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 310 Next
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-25 17:31:49
October 25 2012 17:27 GMT
#481
Wukong has some absolutely awful matchups, and is one of the most snowball champs in top. He has 0 sustained damage, so all his damage is from trades, but most popular top lanes trade better or has ridiculous sustain, while Wukong has nothing.

Darius, Riven, Singed, and Irelia really do a number on him. He seems ok vs Jayce though, surprisingly.

EDIT:

On October 26 2012 02:26 Bladeorade wrote:
I'm only 1600 but I was playing on my friends 1050 account while mine was banned (damn me being an asshole!) and i duo'd with my other 1100~ friend and just played nidalee top and completely won every game by just pushing top and outplaying the other top so hard their team just raged at him. No one could farm at all, I was the only person ever over 200 cs.

A lot of the people around that level really just need to farm better so they can afford items at the same timings and not fall behind


The poor farm is also why tanky bruisers (especially out of the jungle) absolutely crush games at that elo. Champs with some cc, like Udyr, Skarner, Amumu, are virtually unkillable while completely destroying their entire team. Skip the gp5, go old school Wits End + Randuin/Aegis build on Udyr, and watch faces melt while you shield the pathetic damage from carries who can only last hit every other creep.

Playing a jungler at that elo is like playing a different game. No wards, overextension, no map awareness, no farm on lanes = jungler has highest farm AND free kill in any lane you feel like going to.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 25 2012 17:29 GMT
#482
On October 26 2012 02:27 Sandster wrote:
Wukong has some absolutely awful matchups, and is one of the most snowball champs in top. He has 0 sustained damage, so all his damage is from trades, but most popular top lanes trade better or has ridiculous sustain, while Wukong has nothing.

Darius, Riven, Singed, and Irelia really do a number on him. He seems ok vs Jayce though, surprisingly.

Depends on how Jayce plays. He can't do his normal Hammer QE harass as easily, since Wu will just stealth away and be sneaky. But he'll farm better and scale harder, so it's less of a "win lane" matchup for Jayce than it is "become more useful and win game".
It's your boy Guzma!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 25 2012 17:31 GMT
#483
On October 26 2012 01:41 MooMooMugi wrote:
That means... Brutalizer and Last Whisper rushing champs like Pant, Talon, Rengar/KhaZix going to be so strong now T____T


I wonder if MPEN will work like that too. Otherwise I think AP mids are doomed.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
October 25 2012 17:33 GMT
#484
On October 26 2012 02:29 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:27 Sandster wrote:
Wukong has some absolutely awful matchups, and is one of the most snowball champs in top. He has 0 sustained damage, so all his damage is from trades, but most popular top lanes trade better or has ridiculous sustain, while Wukong has nothing.

Darius, Riven, Singed, and Irelia really do a number on him. He seems ok vs Jayce though, surprisingly.

Depends on how Jayce plays. He can't do his normal Hammer QE harass as easily, since Wu will just stealth away and be sneaky. But he'll farm better and scale harder, so it's less of a "win lane" matchup for Jayce than it is "become more useful and win game".


Hm I dunno about that, Wukong's strength is his mid-late game, not his laning phase. Jayce definitely fits in some comps better (like poke comps) but a Wukong that hits 200cs is going to be a serious terror for any team.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-25 17:35:21
October 25 2012 17:34 GMT
#485
I don't know if we've already covered this, but the new Twisted Treeline LOOKS gorgeous. I have no interest in playing 3v3 personally, but regardless of what the gameplay is like, the aesthetics are SUPER cool. Particularly the giant-ass spider. I would love it if SR got a facelift along similar lines, particularly with the buff monsters, Dragon, and Baron.

Admittedly, I'm gleaning all of this from the beta video on their site.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 25 2012 17:37 GMT
#486
On October 26 2012 02:19 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:03 Alaric wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:42 Cloud9157 wrote:
Wait, so I get to actually try and play Wukong now? Holy shit, awesome.

Well, Wukong actually is good. But he gets wrecked by (a good, bads are trashed hilariously) Rengar and Darius is probably one of the worst match-up I have ever experimented, along with playing against Jayce/Yorick.


Ugh, Darius is terrifying. If you're good, apparently you can w as he ultis you and then keep fighting him. Pretty sure he still outdamages you with his retarded passive though. I always heard speculations that Wukong was good against Rengar since you can w when he leaps at you, but never tried it myself.

I still believe Lee is his worst matchup. Reveal+sustain+AS debuff. GG Monkey king.

I just don't have the confidence to play him in ranked. Really wish everybody played Riven and started boots against him. Somehow I always seem to beat those kind of Rivens in lane, when she should probably still stomp him.

Rengar's leap has virtually no cooldown while you've got 15+ seconds on your W, tho, and he can still just run MS quints, E you and run at you anyway.

I don't think there's any way Wukong can beat Darius: he can poke you with Q and not care too much because if you ever hit hit him you'll push the lane back, the blade range should be long enough to allow him to harass you under tower without taking hits, and if you ever try to fight him he'll outdamage both in burst and sustained damage, he'll also be able to easily get you since he can hook you back and use his passive + the cd reduction on his W to slow you (you're dead if you ever take one hit to proc his passive MS buff without being near your tower).
I can't seem to be able to W fast enough to become stealthed before I'm grabbed, so he'll always W me rather than my clone, and then W is useless because you're slowed so he'll catch back up before the stealth wears off.

W-ing his ult is useless as he'll still hit you if you stealth during the animation, and if he's smart he won't ult if it can't kill you. Seeing as your clone (same as Shaco's) grant him the refresh, he'll just have to ult again. Maybe it can save you in edge cases where he towerdives at low HP.
You certainly can't go back to fighting him because he probably won't have ult'd unless you had 5 stacks on you, which translates to around 100 damage at level 6-7, and were in kill range, which means he'll just finish you off with 1-2 autos if you try.

You have no poke nor farming utility, you can't outdamage him, the nature of his damage makes it so he can just grab a vamp scepter (or pots), phage then go full tank (just a belt and tabi is enough to fuck you up a ton because of the way your burst works), your escape move doesn't work against his kit and he can turn ganks around a lot more easily than you. Oh, and in case he trashes you he's got an uninterruptible execute move to make tower dives very risky unless you're full health.

It's just the definition of a counterpick in its purest sense, can kill you, can pressure you, can zone you, can harass you under tower. Wukong's kit is pretty good at harassing and trading short bursts, but his lack of ranged poke and sustained damage (and also of sustain) make him very susceptible to those kind of kits.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
October 25 2012 17:38 GMT
#487
On October 26 2012 02:34 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I don't know if we've already covered this, but the new Twisted Treeline LOOKS gorgeous. I have no interest in playing 3v3 personally, but regardless of what the gameplay is like, the aesthetics are SUPER cool. Particularly the giant-ass spider. I would love it if SR got a facelift along similar lines, particularly with the buff monsters, Dragon, and Baron.

Admittedly, I'm gleaning all of this from the beta video on their site.

didn't they just overhaul summoners rift around the time dominion came out?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
October 25 2012 17:38 GMT
#488
On October 26 2012 02:31 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 01:41 MooMooMugi wrote:
That means... Brutalizer and Last Whisper rushing champs like Pant, Talon, Rengar/KhaZix going to be so strong now T____T


I wonder if MPEN will work like that too. Otherwise I think AP mids are doomed.


I would be very surprised if it didn't. All changes to penetration calculations to date have affected both Armor and Magic equally, likely because they share code. Riot would have to go out of their way to exclude APs.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
October 25 2012 17:39 GMT
#489
On October 26 2012 02:38 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:34 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I don't know if we've already covered this, but the new Twisted Treeline LOOKS gorgeous. I have no interest in playing 3v3 personally, but regardless of what the gameplay is like, the aesthetics are SUPER cool. Particularly the giant-ass spider. I would love it if SR got a facelift along similar lines, particularly with the buff monsters, Dragon, and Baron.

Admittedly, I'm gleaning all of this from the beta video on their site.

didn't they just overhaul summoners rift around the time dominion came out?


Kinda but it really doesn't look much different to me. I mean like... looking REALLY different. Again, with Baron, he's always looked REALLY silly to me. That spider, on the other hand, looks TERRIFYING.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-25 17:43:26
October 25 2012 17:41 GMT
#490
my new favorite thing to do on a friend's account is to go top and get a few kills, then sit there and hardzone them, not even last hitting so the wave never pushes. and watch my opponent flip out. You don't have to do it for long, it guarantees all chat rage and their wails of anguish are delicious.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 25 2012 17:41 GMT
#491
On October 26 2012 02:33 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:29 Requizen wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:27 Sandster wrote:
Wukong has some absolutely awful matchups, and is one of the most snowball champs in top. He has 0 sustained damage, so all his damage is from trades, but most popular top lanes trade better or has ridiculous sustain, while Wukong has nothing.

Darius, Riven, Singed, and Irelia really do a number on him. He seems ok vs Jayce though, surprisingly.

Depends on how Jayce plays. He can't do his normal Hammer QE harass as easily, since Wu will just stealth away and be sneaky. But he'll farm better and scale harder, so it's less of a "win lane" matchup for Jayce than it is "become more useful and win game".


Hm I dunno about that, Wukong's strength is his mid-late game, not his laning phase. Jayce definitely fits in some comps better (like poke comps) but a Wukong that hits 200cs is going to be a serious terror for any team.

Eh, maybe it's just the ones at my level then. He always just seems to turn into an ult-bot that sort of dives the carry and gets peeled easily and then hurt badly by Oracle's. I have yet to see a really good one, so I don't claim authority on the matter until I do.


On October 26 2012 02:34 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I don't know if we've already covered this, but the new Twisted Treeline LOOKS gorgeous. I have no interest in playing 3v3 personally, but regardless of what the gameplay is like, the aesthetics are SUPER cool. Particularly the giant-ass spider. I would love it if SR got a facelift along similar lines, particularly with the buff monsters, Dragon, and Baron.

Admittedly, I'm gleaning all of this from the beta video on their site.

SR (sort of) did. It got a cleaner/crisper look, but not like a full renovation. I doubt they would, as well. I think the TT visual update was because they were re-doing the whole thing anyway, so unless they rework the layout of SR, I don't see a big overhaul in the future.
It's your boy Guzma!
Cr4zyH0r5e
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Peru1308 Posts
October 25 2012 17:41 GMT
#492
Am I the only one having trouble downloading this patch?
For some reason It says it already patched but the server Status is "undefined" and it downloaded step 1/2 twice. first time 139 mb 2nd time 6mb. WTF
Diamond 4 Jungle/Support - http://www.twitch.tv/cr4zyh0r5e/c/3051057 Zyra support 101
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
October 25 2012 17:42 GMT
#493
Just out of curiousity, when is the TL Writeup about S2 Finals coming out?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 25 2012 17:42 GMT
#494
On October 26 2012 02:38 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:31 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:41 MooMooMugi wrote:
That means... Brutalizer and Last Whisper rushing champs like Pant, Talon, Rengar/KhaZix going to be so strong now T____T


I wonder if MPEN will work like that too. Otherwise I think AP mids are doomed.


I would be very surprised if it didn't. All changes to penetration calculations to date have affected both Armor and Magic equally, likely because they share code. Riot would have to go out of their way to exclude APs.


Perhaps.

Regardless, I guess I will be stocking up IP to get some ArPen marks and quints now. To this day I still don't have them.

Also I will probably be running MPEN marks and quints every game should these changes come out.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
October 25 2012 17:42 GMT
#495
Why is it everytime i get forced into mid, i end up with some ridiculous score of like 10-2-8 or something, Maybe i should start playing mid O.o I seem to be quite good at it xD
Useless wet fish.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 25 2012 17:46 GMT
#496
NA server is down, right?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 25 2012 17:46 GMT
#497
On October 26 2012 02:38 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:31 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:41 MooMooMugi wrote:
That means... Brutalizer and Last Whisper rushing champs like Pant, Talon, Rengar/KhaZix going to be so strong now T____T


I wonder if MPEN will work like that too. Otherwise I think AP mids are doomed.


I would be very surprised if it didn't. All changes to penetration calculations to date have affected both Armor and Magic equally, likely because they share code. Riot would have to go out of their way to exclude APs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arpen and Mpen actually didn't share code because Riot's backend is awesome like that.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
October 25 2012 17:46 GMT
#498
On October 26 2012 02:46 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2012 02:38 Seuss wrote:
On October 26 2012 02:31 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 26 2012 01:41 MooMooMugi wrote:
That means... Brutalizer and Last Whisper rushing champs like Pant, Talon, Rengar/KhaZix going to be so strong now T____T


I wonder if MPEN will work like that too. Otherwise I think AP mids are doomed.


I would be very surprised if it didn't. All changes to penetration calculations to date have affected both Armor and Magic equally, likely because they share code. Riot would have to go out of their way to exclude APs.

I wouldn't be surprised if Arpen and Mpen actually didn't share code because Riot's backend is awesome like that.


You've seen riots backend? Ooo err.
Useless wet fish.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 25 2012 17:48 GMT
#499
On October 26 2012 02:42 Capped wrote:
Why is it everytime i get forced into mid, i end up with some ridiculous score of like 10-2-8 or something, Maybe i should start playing mid O.o I seem to be quite good at it xD

Don't get cocky

But seriously, that's like my biggest problem at times. I play a position or champ that I'm not comfortable with for one game, and then do really well because I'm doing everything in my power not to fuck up or feed. Next game, I pick them again, thinking I'm hot shit. Cue me getting rolled because I'm not being as cautious/precise as I was when I thought I was bad lol.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14220 Posts
October 25 2012 17:48 GMT
#500
On October 26 2012 02:42 3 Lions wrote:
Just out of curiousity, when is the TL Writeup about S2 Finals coming out?


We don't talk about the s2 finals review around here.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Prev 1 23 24 25 26 27 310 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
QMC 2: Invitational Tournament
CranKy Ducklings70
ChoboTeamLeague
06:30
Best Games SC
PiGStarcraft514
Discussion
BSL
05:00
RO24 Group D
Ret vs DragOn
Doodle vs Dienmax
ZZZero.O174
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft514
Codebar 78
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1893
GuemChi 1724
Artosis 668
Bisu 295
ZZZero.O 174
ProTech144
White-Ra 128
Dota 2
syndereN311
NeuroSwarm124
League of Legends
Doublelift5250
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang01659
amsayoshi57
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3520
Other Games
summit1g14291
FrodaN3413
JimRising 399
KnowMe193
Maynarde113
JuggernautJason18
CosmosSc2 15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1566
Counter-Strike
PGL653
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 86
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP77
• HeavenSC 31
• musti20045 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie782
• Shiphtur368
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
11h 36m
Ultimate Battle
11h 36m
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
22h 36m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
1d 12h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.