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On October 02 2012 04:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 03:48 h3r1n6 wrote:On October 02 2012 03:45 xes wrote:
People who don't call roles because they're comfortable with anything generally are the better players too. Nah. I guess it is your desired property of a good player to be comfortable with anything. In any even semi-serious team, you want everyone to specialise in one role and not swap roles around. Why would you practice a bit of everything in solo queue then? I will always recommend specialising in one role over playing all roles. That is not to say you can't play other roles, but you will ask for that role every time in champ select and will take it every time you are first pick. The vast majority of solo queue consists of people who would advance their overall level of play much more quickly having exposure to everything than shoehorning themselves into one role.
I see no reason why this is true you just seem to state it but you don't really have any argument and at the very least a lot of the top players started off with a mostly 2-3 champions, let alone playing every role..
I'm sure that a guy who can hold 1600 in all roles is going to do better in 1600 than a guy who is only 1600 when he plays mid but being well rounded doesn't make you a better play. You can't say chauster is better than froggen if froggen feeds with everything except mid but chauster can play everything, it doesn't matter.
The way I see it is you want to reduce as many variables as possible so you can focus on everything else. You don't need to know how AP mid works in teamfights if you are paying attention in teamfights because you already know your champion and role enough that you only need to watch the enemy before you make your play.
There isn't that many players who are actually well rounded. A lot of support players can play mid, some players can play support because they had to (wickd, doublelift for example), but I only know a few players who are known for playing a lot of things. Chaox, Chauster, Alex ich claims he can play any role as well. (with 2 months+ to train ONLY that role mind)That's very few.
You can say "well they're good enough at every role but at some point they just focus on one role". Doesn't make an awful lot of sense. What's the cut off of games per role for playing other roles making you better than playing 1 role? 10 games? 100 games? 1000 games?
From my experience and what I have noticed is that all players who improve dramatically do so mostly focusing on a small pool of champions/roles. As BW players everyone knew you had to pick 1 race. Nobody ever said you had to play off race to get better. At the top level at some point some pros off raced to test the other side of a match up but we're talking really high level brood war here, LoL isn't even close to the level the BW guys were at and every BW guy played only 1 race to get good.
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8748 Posts
i leave games when people in them are dicks but i imagine at some point im gonna get in trouble for leaving. dont wanna get banned, but wanna continue leaving games when people are dicks! so will i get some warnings or temp bans first? or am i dancing with death here
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United States37500 Posts
On October 02 2012 06:06 Liquid`NonY wrote:
i leave games when people in them are dicks but i imagine at some point im gonna get in trouble for leaving. dont wanna get banned, but wanna continue leaving games when people are dicks! so will i get some warnings or temp bans first? or am i dancing with death here
No warning but you'll prob get a temp ban if you continue to leave.
I'm pretty sure Tribunal and Riot views leavers automatically worse than trolls/flamers. :<
Unfair, I know.
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You get temp bans first no warnings
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Chances are when you leave the whole team forgets the other guy was a dick, and the other team reports you as well... You're gonna get a warning, but you're dancing with death. I've been banned 3 times and had 2 warnings. The longest ban was a week, and two 3 day bans. So it's not a huge a deal if you are in fact banned.
Copy of last warning from August 28th
+ Show Spoiler +"Greetings TriforceGuy,
Certain in-game activity on your account was found to be in violation of the Summoner's Code by the Tribunal. This is a friendly WARNING encouraging you to respect the Summoner's Code and contribute positively to the community. Please remember that subsequent violations of this code can lead to suspensions on your account. "
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I think it's pretty risky depending on how often you leave. If it happens once in a while you'll probably get warned because sometimes shit happens and people have to leave. However if you're doing it a few times a week you might end up getting banned so I'd be careful.
It's pretty hilarious to leave a game just because someone is being a dick though, because being a dick in LoL is like shaking hands tbh LOL.
You can still come back in games when people are dicks if you ignore them, but you can almost never come back from a 4v5, so it's kinda unfair to your teammates. If they're playing really bad and the game is beyond saving you can get your team to afk and have the other team push mid and save getting banned, but if 1 guy is feeding you can still win the game if you play well and a lot of people feed because they just get snowballed and get upset and don't adjust to playing like a pussy.
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If you're lucky, you don't get anything.
I got this RL friend who's really horrible at this game (really, really horrible. unspeakably so) and quits every game he loses (read: every game)
still not banned even once. Been playing ~twice a week since 2 years too.
I dunno how he does it. Even I got an automated warning for leaving once when I had to quit a game due to RL.
Tho, he did say he unplugs his internet to ragequit, maybe that makes it look as if he had internet problems, lol
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8748 Posts
I usually only leave when I'm carrying. If we're losing then I fight until the end. But if I'm carrying and my own team bm's me then DRAVEN OUT! But now my Draven record is like 7-3 when it should be 9-1. The sacrifices I make...
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United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2012 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:
I see no reason why this is true you just seem to state it but you don't really have any argument and at the very least a lot of the top players started off with a mostly 2-3 champions, let alone playing every role..
This is the opposite of what I've seen. The vast majority of the long-standing NA pros were playing pretty much everything pre-season 1/early season 1. TOO playing APs like Annie. Regi becoming known for playing Shaco well. Everyone and their mom playing Ezreal (mostly because Ezreal was OP as fuck). Nobody decided they were going to settle down and play X role until they were on a team, at which point specialization is pretty much demanded for the purpose of solidifying team interaction. And well, the vast majority of solo queue players aren't on a relevant team, so there is no specialization demanded of them.
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You only need to worry about getting banned for leaving if you recieve a Leaverbuster message, which will pop up on client, and send an email.
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You could just mute them all I guess. Most things people say in game isn´t worth listening to anyways. You´ll get a 1 day ban eventually which will increase if you continue leaving.
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8748 Posts
lol i rejoined the game right before we won. my teammate honored me. victory
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While I can't go into the specifics of how LeaveBuster works, don't ragequit games too often. It goes straight to a 2-day temp ban I believe.
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On October 02 2012 06:16 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:
I see no reason why this is true you just seem to state it but you don't really have any argument and at the very least a lot of the top players started off with a mostly 2-3 champions, let alone playing every role.. This is the opposite of what I've seen. The vast majority of the long-standing NA pros were playing pretty much everything pre-season 1/early season 1. TOO playing APs like Annie. Regi becoming known for playing Shaco well. Everyone and their mom playing Ezreal (mostly because Ezreal was OP as fuck). Nobody decided they were going to settle down and play X role until they were on a team, at which point specialization is pretty much demanded for the purpose of solidifying team interaction. And well, the vast majority of solo queue players aren't on a relevant team, so there is no specialization demanded of them.
These are guys who have been playing and on the top of LoL since beta though. CLG used to be the best team hands down for the longest time. Then TSM. Now suddenly they're both good but they've both had to commit to gaming houses to get back on top. A lot of people caught up to them playing less and being in a team for less time.
Hotshot playing to rank 1 with nidalee and then goofing around and tanking his elo doesn't constitute as him growing as a player. Nor does reginlald goofing around with poppy solo top and jitb baiting as shaco. You think these guys would have been worse if they played their main roles all the time? Bollocks they were just trolling and having fun, when these guys are serious they're playing their main roles and champs.
When the goal is to improve naturally you want a method that lets you catch up to pros not leave the gap. Tryharding is a good start and narrowing your champs and roles is another.
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On October 02 2012 06:16 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:
I see no reason why this is true you just seem to state it but you don't really have any argument and at the very least a lot of the top players started off with a mostly 2-3 champions, let alone playing every role.. This is the opposite of what I've seen. The vast majority of the long-standing NA pros were playing pretty much everything pre-season 1/early season 1. TOO playing APs like Annie. Regi becoming known for playing Shaco well. Everyone and their mom playing Ezreal (mostly because Ezreal was OP as fuck). Nobody decided they were going to settle down and play X role until they were on a team, at which point specialization is pretty much demanded for the purpose of solidifying team interaction. And well, the vast majority of solo queue players aren't on a relevant team, so there is no specialization demanded of them.
even then i remember it was like chauster + jiji were primary carries but sometimes elementz + hotshot would, kobe always jungled though
most of it probably came to the roles being less concrete at the time and the players feeling no incentive to specialize in one or the other
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United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2012 06:25 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:16 TheYango wrote:On October 02 2012 06:06 Slayer91 wrote:
I see no reason why this is true you just seem to state it but you don't really have any argument and at the very least a lot of the top players started off with a mostly 2-3 champions, let alone playing every role.. This is the opposite of what I've seen. The vast majority of the long-standing NA pros were playing pretty much everything pre-season 1/early season 1. TOO playing APs like Annie. Regi becoming known for playing Shaco well. Everyone and their mom playing Ezreal (mostly because Ezreal was OP as fuck). Nobody decided they were going to settle down and play X role until they were on a team, at which point specialization is pretty much demanded for the purpose of solidifying team interaction. And well, the vast majority of solo queue players aren't on a relevant team, so there is no specialization demanded of them. These are guys who have been playing and on the top of LoL since beta though. CLG used to be the best team hands down for the longest time. Then TSM. Now suddenly they're both good but they've both had to commit to gaming houses to get back on top. A lot of people caught up to them playing less and being in a team for less time. Hotshot playing to rank 1 with nidalee and then goofing around and tanking his elo doesn't constitute as him growing as a player. Nor does reginlald goofing around with poppy solo top and jitb baiting as shaco. You think these guys would have been worse if they played their main roles all the time? Bollocks they were just trolling and having fun, when these guys are serious they're playing their main roles and champs. When the goal is to improve naturally you want a method that lets you catch up to pros not leave the gap. Tryharding is a good start and narrowing your champs and roles is another.
I mean it depends what your goal is.
If you're just out there to have fun, then just play whatever the fuck you want.
If your goal is to raise Elo, then sure, massgaming 1 champ probably is the best way to raise Elo.
"Becoming a better player" is pretty vague. How do you gauge the value of learning a "non-main role" vs. learning the intricacies of various lane matchups for a single hero (that are probably no more applicable to other heroes than what you'd learn in an off-role) toward "becoming a better player"?
Honestly speaking, it probably doesn't matter all that much either way. Doublelift got to high Elo really fast playing only Blitzcrank, but look how damn long it took for him to actually become good at stuff that wasn't Blitzcrank. Realistically it wouldn't have been slower for him to climb up to the level he's at now playing a rounded mix of champs than it did for him to do so playing only Blitzcrank, THEN go through the process of learning everything else.
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I have not yet had a reason to use the Honor system. I nearly clicked on it once on the way to the report button.
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Because you don't just learn laning phase. You get to know your power curve and most importantly how to play teamfights and the early/mid/late game in general. (which is an extremely fragile thing for example if you can't gauge your burst probably what could be a clutch snipe on a key player could be a suicide)
And you don't just learn matchups. You learn laning in whatever lane your playing. And having a control hero means you can judge the strength of their hero versus other heros you've laned against to make your decisions in the lane because you have that much experience. You have a better idea of what kind of ganks you can get away from. There are 100's of minute decisions that are important in every game and the more you know the easier it is to judge what was a mistake at the time or what was a result of earlier mistakes or why it was a mistake. (for example initiate play X didn't work because of their team comp, but if you played a different hero you might think, maybe I can't initiate like that on that hero, when it might be the enemy team comp that stops you initiating)
Or I guess, a better way to put it is: You are breaking down playing your main role as only learning a few aspects. In fact you learn every single aspect of LoL and you can learn it playing the same champ in the same position every single game. Will you miss out on things YES but you learn what you can much faster.
You also learn every aspect of LoL playing an off-role, but since you know less you have to learn a whole new bunch of things along with the things you have yet to learn for your main role, so I just don't see the benefit.
Not even the top players have "mastered" any role or any lane or any hero. There's just so much room for improvement. Everytime I ask myself "should I pick another jungle this game" I ask "but you have so much to learn still, why stop now?"
In fact you're a big promoter of the concept of "drilling" which is EXACTLY the same concept as playing the same hero. You drill the basics and then do the complicated stuff. Except in this case what you're drilling is hugely complicated and you're asking people to try to do that once and then do 4 other hugely complicated drills. I can see the perspective to an extent, but I don't see it being justified.
You're going to play off-roles as a break and to have fun and be less serious at some point anyway, I don't think it's worth
trying to integrate it as part of getting better though. I think most people would prefer to be 1900 playing 1 role and maybe support on occasion than playing lots of random shit at 1600. What you learn from being in higher ELO is also extremely valuable to learning how to play off-roles later.
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honestly the difference is not that big. lol.
if you play a single or a few champions you will learn other champions just by interacting w/ and vs them as your given champion.
if you play a lot of champions you can just straight up see what the other champions do, try a few builds, etc. to gain effective mastery at your level of play may take a few repetitions but the knowledge will be more in depth than simple play vs / with said champions.
both are good ways of improving. if you like either then do that method.
for ppl who really like a role i usually tell them to specialize in it because of the proxy learning and the fact that they enjoy their role. for ppl who have the versatility / enjoy a variety of heroes i tell them to try out everything during free weeks. i've seen both types succeed (i am personally of the latter) at a variety of elos.
i.e. stop typing play gamez get good while playing.
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Is AP nid considered difficult or something? For me, it seems really natural being able to go in two forms, and it's not hard at all.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WdwKm.png) + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3VufX.png)
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EPT
