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United States47024 Posts
Kinda late but:
On August 20 2012 11:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 11:44 Requizen wrote:On August 20 2012 11:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:
nunu probably top 3 strongest junglers in solo queue and 5s Just out of curiosity, who do you put at the other 2? Lee and Malph? for 5s AND solo queue, skarner and probably maokai, i think skarner/nunu are pretty obviously the best atm, malph is always banned, naut has some weaknesses, mundo is good, the rest just aren't as good and can't be picked as universally as the ones listed. I still think Udyr is good. Junglers who need wriggles have a huge disadvantage compared to ones who don't. Noct/Lee/Shy are the only three wriggles junglers that can even be considered. All three need damage items meaning rushing aegis isn't the best for them. Lee highly skill dependent, falls off late, only has kick for fights. Noct great CC, great team fight presence, great ganks, but like LS, you almost always have to run a real tank for a front line. Shyv is a great jungler, more than makes up for needing wriggles, but has no CC. Unless you're just that much better at those junglers than GP10 junglers, there's no need to pick them over GP10 junglers pretty much ever. Out of the lesser played junglers, again no one that needs wriggles is even considered. Hec/Sejuani have very good potential. I don't like to think any champions need buffs but I think Rammus needs a tiny bit. Olaf/Jax/Riven/Darius mostly solo queue junglers.
Why do people even consider Shyvana a Wriggle's jungler?
Her AoE is on par with/superior to Udyr and Mundo--she absolutely does not need Wriggle's to maintain jungle speed, but people just see her Q and go OMG DOUBLE WRIGGLES--despite the fact that the practicality of a double Wriggle's proc is pretty weak after the proc nerfs.
Realistically I think using your Vamp Scepter (which it makes sense that you want because you have no innate sustain) for Stark's is much more practical than Wriggle's. ASpd/HP/CDR/Lifesteal is like a dream stat combination for Shyvana, and the aura on top of that is fantastic.
On August 20 2012 22:30 nojitosunrise wrote:
iG is the top Chinese team right?
I think they've actually lost most Chinese events to WE since Wh1t3zz and Tabe left, reluctantly taking the spot of second-best Chinese team.
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On August 21 2012 00:31 koreasilver wrote:
Nothing has changed in bans over the past two weeks except the addition of Diana. Warwick hasn't been a ban candidate for months, and Kassadin bans have been progressively phasing out for months.
People should stop banning my Diana. 
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On August 21 2012 00:32 TheYango wrote:Kinda late but: Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 11:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:On August 20 2012 11:44 Requizen wrote:On August 20 2012 11:42 zulu_nation8 wrote:
nunu probably top 3 strongest junglers in solo queue and 5s Just out of curiosity, who do you put at the other 2? Lee and Malph? for 5s AND solo queue, skarner and probably maokai, i think skarner/nunu are pretty obviously the best atm, malph is always banned, naut has some weaknesses, mundo is good, the rest just aren't as good and can't be picked as universally as the ones listed. I still think Udyr is good. Junglers who need wriggles have a huge disadvantage compared to ones who don't. Noct/Lee/Shy are the only three wriggles junglers that can even be considered. All three need damage items meaning rushing aegis isn't the best for them. Lee highly skill dependent, falls off late, only has kick for fights. Noct great CC, great team fight presence, great ganks, but like LS, you almost always have to run a real tank for a front line. Shyv is a great jungler, more than makes up for needing wriggles, but has no CC. Unless you're just that much better at those junglers than GP10 junglers, there's no need to pick them over GP10 junglers pretty much ever. Out of the lesser played junglers, again no one that needs wriggles is even considered. Hec/Sejuani have very good potential. I don't like to think any champions need buffs but I think Rammus needs a tiny bit. Olaf/Jax/Riven/Darius mostly solo queue junglers. Why do people even consider Shyvana a Wriggle's jungler? Her AoE is on par with/superior to Udyr and Mundo--she absolutely does not need Wriggle's to maintain jungle speed, but people just see her Q and go OMG DOUBLE WRIGGLES--despite the fact that the practicality of a double Wriggle's proc is pretty weak after the proc nerfs. Realistically I think using your Vamp Scepter (which it makes sense that you want because you have no innate sustain) for Stark's is much more practical than Wriggle's. ASpd/HP/CDR/Lifesteal is like a dream stat combination for Shyvana, and the aura on top of that is fantastic. Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 22:30 nojitosunrise wrote:
iG is the top Chinese team right? I think they've actually lost most Chinese events to WE since Wh1t3zz and Tabe left, reluctantly taking the spot of second-best Chinese team.
Technically speaking none of those three junglers require Wriggle's. In the current meta, where dragon is almost never taken solo in the early stages of the game, Wriggle's isn't compelling. It's bought more on inertia at this point than for any other reason.
At some point we might see a resurgence of double/triple Wriggle's compositions for fast dragons/Barons, but for the time being most competitive champions don't have much reason to build it.
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shyvana does benefit from the armor and AD though, and free wards are never bad
i used to rush stark's on shyvana instead of wriggles because i felt the armor reduction was equivalent to the wriggles proc over time. now that it's zeke's i don't like it as much
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I'm starting to dislike starks as well. I know that the 20% attack speed buff is equivalent to a 10-15% damage increase on an AD carry mid game, but most of the time your carry will be dancing around anyways not using it. The cdr and hp are nice but you're paying a lot for it. Lifesteal is great, but unless you have a lot, or you are way stronger than the person you're attacking, it's a better stat for healing back your life in lane or in the jungle on your own, than it is for dueling or teamfighting.
I just think to myself "This could be a phantom dancer" on ranged, or "this could be a randuins" on melees.
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I just don't get what people see(hear) in that korean commentary, irks the hell out of me when everything the players do is greeted with aaaAaaAa aaaaaaAAaA ---- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!
Lux Es wraith camp AAAAAAAHHHHHH
Lux ults minion wave AAAAAAAAAHHAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAARGH
Lux lands her full combo on a warded enemy, which like farming a minion wave out, there's nothing impressive abou AAAAAAAAAAHHAHJAJAJAJAJAH H HHHA LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAX
blah, I'll take Phreak over that any day. Or Joe <3
e: bah meant for the OGN topic
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2012 00:55 Seuss wrote:
Technically speaking none of those three junglers require Wriggle's. In the current meta, where dragon is almost never taken solo in the early stages of the game, Wriggle's isn't compelling. It's bought more on inertia at this point than for any other reason.
At some point we might see a resurgence of double/triple Wriggle's compositions for fast dragons/Barons, but for the time being most competitive champions don't have much reason to build it.
This is true. I'm actually much more accustomed to using the 2DBlade->Bruta core on both Lee and Noct recently--I just felt that Wriggle's on Shyv is more out of place and at the same time more common, which is why I brought it up.
TBH the only junglers I actually regularly build Wriggle's on at this point are probably Trundle and Yi (I could probably try the 2DBlade->Bruta core on either of them--but giving up Vamp starts on Trundle is hard because they feel so smooth ).
On August 21 2012 01:03 gtrsrs wrote:
shyvana does benefit from the armor and AD though, and free wards are never bad
i used to rush stark's on shyvana instead of wriggles because i felt the armor reduction was equivalent to the wriggles proc over time. now that it's zeke's i don't like it as much
Except HP and attack speed are both stronger defensive/offensive stats for Shyvana than armor/AD due to her kit (passive resists from ulti favors HP over further resists, her passive and mediocre AD ratios favor attack speed over AD).
And the aura is more powerful than the Wriggle's proc IMO. The primary draw of the Wriggle's proc is that it speeds up buff/Dragon times, but solo buff/Dragon steals are fairly risky/gimmicky, and if you have 2-4 other people involved in doing the buff/Dragon, the Stark's attack speed aura is going to be more influential than Wriggle's procs unless you're insanely lucky.
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Someone did good with Morde? MUST SEE VOD
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2012 01:19 schmutttt wrote:
Someone did good with Morde? MUST SEE VOD
Pretty much the first think I check with any iG game is "did they let Zzitai pick Morde?"
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On August 20 2012 23:40 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 23:39 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Well that was lame, damage hit and still teleported :s The final 0.5 seconds of bluepill cant be interupted. has always been the case.
Does that have something to do with the improved recall mastery? As far as I can tell, without the mastery your animation takes that extra 0.5 seconds to recall but you're actually in the pool for all intents and purposes for the last 0.5 seconds.
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On August 21 2012 01:27 SoulSever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 23:40 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2012 23:39 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Well that was lame, damage hit and still teleported :s The final 0.5 seconds of bluepill cant be interupted. has always been the case. Does that have something to do with the improved recall mastery? As far as I can tell, without the mastery your animation takes that extra 0.5 seconds to recall but you're actually in the pool for all intensive purposes for the last 0.5 seconds.
Those purposes are so god damn intense, I can barely contain myself!
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On August 21 2012 01:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 01:19 schmutttt wrote:
Someone did good with Morde? MUST SEE VOD Pretty much the first think I check with any iG game is "did they let Zzitai pick Morde?"
I mean lets be honest,the guy did really well but it's not like hotshot did anything constructive to help mid lane win or at least go even on farm.He was pretty much dead weight in both the Diana and Morde game until he hit 6(which took hella long).At that stage morde and diana doubled jiji on cs both games.
Morde is not the hardest thing to gank in the world at any point,especially with a ryze in lane,but HS was always so weak he would risk getting instagibed if he ganked lol.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2012 01:27 SoulSever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 23:40 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2012 23:39 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Well that was lame, damage hit and still teleported :s The final 0.5 seconds of bluepill cant be interupted. has always been the case. Does that have something to do with the improved recall mastery? As far as I can tell, without the mastery your animation takes that extra 0.5 seconds to recall but you're actually in the pool for all intensive purposes for the last 0.5 seconds.
It's been this way since before Improved Recall was even in the game.
And it's "intents and purposes" not "intensive purposes". I don't even know how the latter remotely makes any sense to anyone who actually ever stopped to think about what they were saying.
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On August 21 2012 01:36 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 01:22 TheYango wrote:On August 21 2012 01:19 schmutttt wrote:
Someone did good with Morde? MUST SEE VOD Pretty much the first think I check with any iG game is "did they let Zzitai pick Morde?" I mean lets be honest,the guy did really well but it's not like hotshot did anything constructive to help mid lane win or at least go even on farm.He was pretty much dead weight in both the Diana and Morde game until he hit 6(which took hella long).At that stage morde and diana doubled jiji on cs both games. Morde is not the hardest thing to gank in the world at any point,especially with a ryze in lane,but HS was always so weak he would risk getting instagibed if he ganked lol.
I actually giggle when I'm playing jungle and there's a Morde mid. Play a jungle that can gank at low levels without really hurting their jungle (Skarner, for instance), show your face to force Flash, wait for him to come back, get a kill.
I'm sure better players have less issues with this, but his lack of escape and his inability to have massive shields at low levels really makes him super easy to camp if you're not behind.
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I disagree with Zekes being so much better. First of all Wriggles is a gp5 item, second its AD is like twice the ASPD of Zekes, and Shyvanas Q and W actually use the AD quite well. In addition Wriggles is a gold per 5 item and is way cheaper than Zekes. Of course Zekes isn't terrible but it's more like getting it when you need it(Usually when your toplane can use the stats well, for instance), instead of just automatically defaulting to it.
The cdr is good though that's true, but even so the gp5 nature of Wriggles and the sped up Dragon and Baron are worth alot.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2012 01:44 Shikyo wrote:
The cdr is good though that's true, but even so the gp5 nature of Wriggles and the sped up Dragon and Baron are worth alot.
It's definitely not sped up Dragon and Baron when you're not soloing them is the thing. 20% ASpd aura contributes more to Dragon/Baron speed unless you're either soloing or insanely lucky.
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On August 21 2012 01:49 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 01:44 Shikyo wrote:
The cdr is good though that's true, but even so the gp5 nature of Wriggles and the sped up Dragon and Baron are worth alot. It's definitely not sped up Dragon and Baron when you're not soloing them is the thing. 20% ASpd aura contributes more to Dragon/Baron speed unless you're either soloing or insanely lucky.
Doesn't the AS debuff from dragon kind of cancel out the aura if you're soloing?
Can't read
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Would lowering the CD on wriggles ward to 2 1/2 minutes make it more attractive? That way with perfect usage you could be constantly warding an enemy buff AND somewhere else in between
edit: would you make the wriggles ward only last 2 1/2 minutes or full 3? :s
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This is so dumb. Whatever you do, whichever escape (flash or another) you use, Xin will knock you up if his animation only even begins without him hitting you. You'll get knocked-up at the arrival point but it makes the escape useless.
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United States47024 Posts
And with regard to Wriggle's being a pseudo-gp10 item, I don't think a stalled out lategame is where Shyvana is most effective. Her teamfighting is most powerful midgame off of her high baseline damage and free flat survivability steroid. She has minimal CC/gap closing ability and doesn't have powerful scaling in any form, so there's no particular advantage for her to play for a long game.
The high immediate power spike in teamfighting effectiveness from having a cost-effective aura item is much more suited to her game plan than buying a pseudo-gp10 and stalling the game for it to generate gold.
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EPT
