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On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power?
I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones.
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On August 08 2012 04:41 IMoperator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:38 AngryFarmer wrote:On August 08 2012 04:28 IMoperator wrote:What are you supposed to do vs. Draven in early game? His Q does ridiculous damage on squishy ad champs  Lategame he's fine, but early game in lane he seems to dominate. Normally when I'll only play AD carry when I have a good support. As an AD carry farming is first priority. So it's really up to your support to protect you in the beginning. But since you claim he's fine late game and you may not have a good support. I guess all you do is get to late game and you should be ok Well I had ali support but it was AP sona and draven adn they would just harass us all day.
You really have to be defensive and stand as far back as possible. Just take last hits and have your jungler come help. If they get close then just have ali headbutt them back. Basically you have to have a helpful team.
If you are playing ranked then you should have gotten some healing champ to equalize the poke.
If you played blind pick then I think you got unlucky.
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On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power?
im not sure about the e yet. the range on it is quite small and im not sure if you can flash out of it or if it is a 'suppress' type of skill. in a team fight i find it very unlikely that you will be able to e more then 2-3 people, whereas a well positioned orianna ult can grab 4-5 people fairly easily. the actual distance you grab someone from and then the distance you draw them towards you is quite small from what ive seen. basically i think it will be more useful for using in between r's. like you q-r at them, they run away, you e, and then r again. thats just my impression so far, it could change when i get some more games in.
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On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones.
Her E is so ridiculous. The fact that it does what orianna's ult does is a bit unfair. The ratio might not be as good but in terms of utility it's a bit too good. The range on it is quite similar in size aswell.
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On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones.
I really don't know which role she fits in best, though I think she will be quite strong as peeler with her E. Most tanks and bruisers focus mainly on armor and she does insane and quite constant amounts of magic damage, so she can really hit those tanks hard unless they trade off Armor for Magic Resistance. Combine that with an AoE slow and maybe Rylais and there shouldn't be anything touching the AD at all. Her skills also have a low enough cooldown that she can immediately burst the enemy carries after that.
She also looks like she fits in quite well as Assassin similar to LeBlanc or maybe closer to Kassadin where she jumps in over a wall and bursts the enemy carry down without him having a chance to escape due to her E.
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On August 08 2012 04:55 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones. Her E is so ridiculous. The fact that it does what orianna's ult does is a bit unfair. The ratio might not be as good but in terms of utility it's a bit too good. The range on it is quite similar in size aswell.
You have to be on top of the enemy team to use it, which makes it risky but not necessarily harder to use because of R. Also, it should be noted that her E basically does the utility of Orianna's R/W combo as it also slows.
As for Draven versus Ez, I'd just try and avoid trading with him if you know that you can't trade. Use Q to farm. W to harass as it outranges Draven autos by like 350 range.
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On August 08 2012 04:55 AngryFarmer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones. Her E is so ridiculous. The fact that it does what orianna's ult does is a bit unfair. The ratio might not be as good but in terms of utility it's a bit too good. The range on it is quite similar in size aswell.
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team.
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On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:55 AngryFarmer wrote:On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones. Her E is so ridiculous. The fact that it does what orianna's ult does is a bit unfair. The ratio might not be as good but in terms of utility it's a bit too good. The range on it is quite similar in size aswell. Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team.
It doesn't do damage in and of itself, but it basically guarantees all 3 shield thingies will burst, and lines up a group for Q to hit most of them, and can get your passive proc on at least a few as well. Her kit is an AoE meatgrinder, E is really good setup for that. If E actually did damage, there might be an issue.
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On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 04:55 AngryFarmer wrote:On August 08 2012 04:51 sylverfyre wrote:On August 08 2012 04:39 AsmodeusXI wrote:On August 08 2012 04:26 Vaporized wrote:
she seems like a real snowballey jungler, like riven or xin. if you arent getting kills on her then you are going to lose. she brings nothing else to the game besides her damage. luckily, she does good damage. i really like her kit, seems well-done all around. and that passive starts doing solid damage after an item or two.
and yeah that hextech i got into a game and realized i had no idea what to build so i went hextech to dcap. after that game and thinking about it a bit im going to go sorc boots guise malady abyssal when i get home later. Is the utility from her E really so negligible that she's "only damage"? She can't offset any potential deficits with that kind of positioning power? I dunno, I think the utiltiy from her E is AMAZING (but I only have experienced it vs. bots so far, but it felt amazing to use - like having an orianna R+W without the damage. It's one of the best forms of teamfight CC, IMO. Group them up with a mini-CC component, leave them with a slow so they can't reposition. Pulls are great, even short ones. Her E is so ridiculous. The fact that it does what orianna's ult does is a bit unfair. The ratio might not be as good but in terms of utility it's a bit too good. The range on it is quite similar in size aswell. Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team.
I've been giving it more thought, Diana's E is going to be a better counter initiate, than an actual initiation.
the way Q works, allows you to hit the backlines in teamfights, R'ing immediately back there. The E will allow you to set up the enemy AP carry and AD carry to be hit by your teammates AoE, probably best set up for AoE dmging bruisers.
As an actual initiation it's probably not that great, as due to distancing between teams before a teamfight, your Q is most likely only going to hit the front line~, grouping up tanks/bruisers is all well and dandy, but that's less than optimal situation.
I still see E being more of a ganking tool, than actually initiation, or strong team fighting ability.The most important part it seems to have in teamfights is it's ability to cc people, similar to knock up, so like a .25 sec Cc.
It's power curve going to be similar to how singular stuns are strong in ganking situations but much much weaker in 5v5 teamfights.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team.
Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway.
Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency.
By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos.
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Her clear speeds seem ridiculous. Faced her as jungle Udyr and she was easily keeping up with me in clears/levels.
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On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos.
Could you explain what the difference is between the two that makes Orianna's ult combo well with only a few specific picks compared to Diana?
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On August 08 2012 05:35 danana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos. Could you explain what the difference is between the two that makes Orianna's ult combo well with only a few specific picks compared to Diana?
Orianna doesn't have to get in the middle of them personally to gather them all up.
I can't wait to try Diana mid. :33333
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On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos.
Doesn't help that Diana can be mid OR jungle
Hell, you could probably even try to play her top
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On August 08 2012 05:35 danana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos. Could you explain what the difference is between the two that makes Orianna's ult combo well with only a few specific picks compared to Diana?
Well, off the top of my head, she needs to put her ball on someone that has a really good insta-gap closer that will get in and put it into position to ult. That's why it works well on someone like Malph, he ults in with it on him and she ults while the entire team is there, grouped and knocked up. However, a tank like Mundo, Naut, or someone like Taric, for instance, can't and won't instantly be in the middle of the whole team to position the Ori ult well. So not only do you need Orianna to time/use it well, you need the initiator to position himself well and what not.
Diana does that independently. She gap closes to a good spot and hits E when it can get as many as possible. No interaction with another champ required, and is a good signal to your team (especially in solo queue), that "now is a good time to engage".
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On August 08 2012 05:41 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:35 danana wrote:On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos. Could you explain what the difference is between the two that makes Orianna's ult combo well with only a few specific picks compared to Diana? Well, off the top of my head, she needs to put her ball on someone that has a really good insta-gap closer that will get in and put it into position to ult. That's why it works well on someone like Malph, he ults in with it on him and she ults while the entire team is there, grouped and knocked up. However, a tank like Mundo, Naut, or someone like Taric, for instance, can't and won't instantly be in the middle of the whole team to position the Ori ult well. So not only do you need Orianna to time/use it well, you need the initiator to position himself well and what not. Diana does that independently. She gap closes to a good spot and hits E when it can get as many as possible. No interaction with another champ required, and is a good signal to your team (especially in solo queue), that "now is a good time to engage".
It's like people forget, ori can shoot her ball into a team and ult, she doesn't need someone to go in for her, it's just easier.
Only upside to diana is that she can R again, flash or move a bit to catch more people, but the range is smaller, she can easily be bursted while doing so and doesn't do the same damage.
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On August 08 2012 05:49 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:41 Requizen wrote:On August 08 2012 05:35 danana wrote:On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos. Could you explain what the difference is between the two that makes Orianna's ult combo well with only a few specific picks compared to Diana? Well, off the top of my head, she needs to put her ball on someone that has a really good insta-gap closer that will get in and put it into position to ult. That's why it works well on someone like Malph, he ults in with it on him and she ults while the entire team is there, grouped and knocked up. However, a tank like Mundo, Naut, or someone like Taric, for instance, can't and won't instantly be in the middle of the whole team to position the Ori ult well. So not only do you need Orianna to time/use it well, you need the initiator to position himself well and what not. Diana does that independently. She gap closes to a good spot and hits E when it can get as many as possible. No interaction with another champ required, and is a good signal to your team (especially in solo queue), that "now is a good time to engage". It's like people forget, ori can shoot her ball into a team and ult, she doesn't need someone to go in for her. Only upside to diana is that she can R again, flash or move a bit to catch more people, but the range is smaller, she can easily be bursted while doing so and doesn't do the same damage.
The ball is slow enough and visible enough that it's an immediate sign to scatter, which is why Malph-Ori combo works much much better than just her throwing it out there. Also, Command:Attack is only a 815 range as opposed to the full leash range of the ball, 1225.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 08 2012 05:39 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 05:23 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2012 05:08 JackDino wrote:
Her E doesn't even do any damage and she has to be in the middle of it, ori can just put her ball on like a malph and devastate a team. Orianna ultimate combos with a few specific heroes that can create those abusive interactions. Not to mention a lot of those heroes are already high ban/pick priority anyway. Diana's R+E combos with almost every AoE damage dealer in the game, with varying degrees of potency. By itself, it's mediocre--it's strength is in how it interacts with a wide array of other skills so smoothly. From the perspective of a competitive draft, she's hard to pick against because once a team grabs her first-pick, there are suddenly a lot of champions that you otherwise wouldn't have to worry about picking against that have the potential to create extremely potent combos. Doesn't help that Diana can be mid OR jungle Hell, you could probably even try to play her top
That's part of it.
A lot of the heroes that benefit from a pull like this are AP mids. Slotting them on a team with Ori is awkward because either you have a potentially weak matchup top, or you have to do something funky like support Ori.
Diana allows you a lot more flexibility.
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I don't think I can compliment the Summer Arena article enough. Hopefully it'll draw in some pro-players into TL lol subforum? *fingers crossed*
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EPT
