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On July 26 2012 10:26 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:31 kainzero wrote:
with the level and exposure that some of these pros are at, i think they'll gain enough experience to transition into jobs in the gaming industry easily in some fashion. if you want to do something else you might have problems though.
the only thing laughable about kids wanting to go pro is that it always comes from unskilled players. if you're playing 3-4 hours everyday and you can't beat people who only put in a couple hours on the weekend, guess what, increasing the time you're playing won't help at all. A handful can transition, but most can't. There aren't many jobs out there -- it's usually something like casting or coaching/managing. Other jobs generally require actual education / skills (e.g. you can't become a developer for a gaming website if you don't know e.g. web development). Note that most of these jobs are also contested by non-"pros" and the first two (the ones that don't require any skills or education) generally pay poorly and/or are infrequent. There just isn't much out there to transition into.
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree.
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On July 26 2012 09:40 JBright wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:22 Perplex wrote:
General TL question: Is there a legend anywhere with all of the avatar icons and what they mean? I've kinda gotten so far
nuke = perma ban
lock = temp ban
Hammer = mod
but then theres stuff like puzzle pieces and pens and I just have no idea lol http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/TeamLiquid.net_StaffThis page should have most of the special icons. There are a few other non-mod icons but they aren't staff so I don't really know where to find them.
There's also one dude with the exclusive optic flare icon
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United States2503 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 10:26 Craton wrote:On July 26 2012 09:31 kainzero wrote:
with the level and exposure that some of these pros are at, i think they'll gain enough experience to transition into jobs in the gaming industry easily in some fashion. if you want to do something else you might have problems though.
the only thing laughable about kids wanting to go pro is that it always comes from unskilled players. if you're playing 3-4 hours everyday and you can't beat people who only put in a couple hours on the weekend, guess what, increasing the time you're playing won't help at all. A handful can transition, but most can't. There aren't many jobs out there -- it's usually something like casting or coaching/managing. Other jobs generally require actual education / skills (e.g. you can't become a developer for a gaming website if you don't know e.g. web development). Note that most of these jobs are also contested by non-"pros" and the first two (the ones that don't require any skills or education) generally pay poorly and/or are infrequent. There just isn't much out there to transition into. ^This Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree.
Unless you were good about making contacts in the gaming industry along the way. You can parlay that into any number of jobs with gaming companies (like Riot). Take people like Jatt, for example. With Riot having a large ESPORTS division, it is feasible that there is room for people somewhere like that, also.
Is there room for every mid-to-top tier pro? No, of course not. But if someone was ambitious enough and wise enough to set up a transition out of playing in the future, then there's definitely enough room for these people.
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Is it just me or does EloBuff have some wildly inaccurate stats? Elobuff says my most played champ only has 10 games played, when it's something closer to like...90. It also has my winrates really off. Is it 'cause I have yet to confirm or is there some super secret formula that I'm missing. The stats on LoLking are fine so iunno.
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On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree.
aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo
but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies
i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree.
and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know?
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On July 26 2012 10:16 O-ops wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:25 Cloud9157 wrote:
That awkward moment when you are placed on the same team as a friend when you aren't duo. Then there are 7 dodges in a row zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. That's awkward? Son, that ain't shit. I was at the our school game dungeon duoing with a friend. Another friend of ours was also playing across the room. My friend and I entered queue. ...And we get the dude playing from across the room in our team.
Ha a similar thing has happened to me. My friend and I used to play normals with another friend but we both stopped playing with him because he was such a dick in game, and even stopped being real life friends with him because of this. We have now ran into him 3 times in queue while we were duo queuing (in about 4 months time). It is always a little awkward.. but we've also never lost because we know each others playstyle and its almost like a secret "triple queue" lol. Does the game search for IPs near you first?
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On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know?
Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno.
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On July 26 2012 11:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know? Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno.
I wouldn't be surprised, a bunch of doctors make less than nurses now.
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On July 26 2012 11:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know? Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno.
I don't see how that can be sustained income.
Be aware doctors have widely varied paygrade. A low level family doctor indeed make less than well placed nurses.
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I don't really see the mechanic-based pros doing really well in the gaming industry outside of actually playing said game professionally.
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On July 26 2012 11:31 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 11:27 Gahlo wrote:On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know? Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno. I don't see how that can be sustained income. Be aware doctors have widely varied paygrade. A low level family doctor indeed make less than well placed nurses.
I doubt it is sustained, he probably just took some pay/hour and compared to like the average clinician and said that he makes more.
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On July 26 2012 11:31 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 11:27 Gahlo wrote:On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know? Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno. I don't see how that can be sustained income. Be aware doctors have widely varied paygrade. A low level family doctor indeed make less than well placed nurses.
Saint hits 8k-10k viewers pretty regularly. Streaming for ~10 hours a day with that many viewers i wouldn't be surprised if he was making a sizable sum of money. Streaming is the sustained revenue that progamers need.
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United States2503 Posts
On July 26 2012 11:27 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 11:12 gtrsrs wrote:On July 26 2012 10:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
^This
Progaming is more of a short term thing outside of coaching/casting, and there are only so many coaches and not many people can transition into casting that well. Once it's over you're just someone with no experience and no college degree. aka, perfectly poised to succeed in the real world, imo but also with some awesome glory days to reminisce about and some contacts at some awesome companies i just think it's unfair to downplay the odds of making decent money as a LoL pro-gamer (like, top 8 teams all make pretty good money don't they? at least through streams if not through tourney money?) and overstate the necessity/effect of a college degree. and again, i'd never tell any schmuck to forego education/work experience to try to play a game for a living, but if we're talking about pros here, i definitely think with their particular skillset, they're already in the right industry for them, you know? Saint has said he currently makes more than a doctor. Whether that was hyperbole or not, I dunno.
The top of the top streams and scene personalities: Reginald, Hotshot, Saint, OddBro, Dyrus, etc make VERY GOOD money from their streams (on top of winnings).
Compare this to some of the top Youtube personalities such as Husky, Day9, Yogscast, TotalBiscuit, etc.
The very tippy top of these industries make great money, and good for them. They deserve to make a great living for the entertainment they deliver to me and their fans. However, it's crazy to think this model extends much beyond the top of the top casters. If you can't pull very high levels of concurrent viewers then you are not making much money at all. Perhaps enough to subsist off of playing a game (which is reward enough for some), but not enough to become "rich"or to make more than people could in another field/industry.
People don't need college/school to be successful either, though. They could be an entrepreneur, they could play poker, they could do any number of things that don't require schooling in normal blocks. But, for most people, education is the most surefire way to a more successful life. That's why it is probably foolish for people to forego their education to start pursuing a career in progaming. I think it was Incontrol and Tyler and others that said if you drop everything in your life to pursue progaming, then you're likelihood of success is not great. However, if you work hard to live your life and try to improve at a game you love, and you're good enough to go pro, the opportunity will present itself and you'll be all the better for leaving all your doors open.
A bit of a rambly post, but there's no right or wrong here. Certainly for individual people certain paths will work out while for others the exact same path will be disastrous. Life, and opportunities, are silly like that.
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Hotshot and Reginald are definitely the two in all of league who are "doing it right." They're actually investing their money and fame back into something that can last once League and their ability fade. Nobody else really seems to have a plan other than trying to maintain their status quo, which obviously can't be done indefinitely (and likely not even for more than a few years at most).
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I doubt saint makes more than a doctor. Its possible that he makes more than a few doctors, but the majority probably make way more than him.
The lowest-paid doctors are generally family practice type guys, and they still pull ~130K on average. Specialized guys like radiologists can pull 300k a year easily, and some surgeons make double or triple that.
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On July 25 2012 22:31 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 20:50 Goragoth wrote:So a while ago in the previous GD thread I mused about making a tool that would let you switch hotkeys on a per-champion basis (mostly to pick and choose which skills to smart cast)... so I went ahead and coded it up. I also added a simple GUI interface for setting up custom recommended items for champs, making it much easier than going through .ini files and looking up item codes. The tool runs in the system tray and once additional hotkey sets are set up for champions they appear in the menu, letting you swap them in at the click of a button. Anyone interested in testing can grab it from my site: http://www.void.net.nz/loltool.html. Just stick it anywhere and run, no install required (it does need .Net 4.0 though, there's a link on the page if you need it). It still needs testing and bugs are likely (feel free to PM me if you find any and I'll get right on fixing them). It's also a little rough around the edges but it should pretty much work. If there's any interest I'll also make a thread just for it in the future. Suggestions for additional features are welcome. highlighting this post a bit i will test it out tonight, awesome work man
Thanks man, let me know what you think. Just a heads up, I just did some testing myself and fixed a silly bug that actually broke the whole swapping in hotkey sets functionality. So if you already grabbed it make sure to redownload it.
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On July 26 2012 12:47 Goragoth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 22:31 gtrsrs wrote:On July 25 2012 20:50 Goragoth wrote:So a while ago in the previous GD thread I mused about making a tool that would let you switch hotkeys on a per-champion basis (mostly to pick and choose which skills to smart cast)... so I went ahead and coded it up. I also added a simple GUI interface for setting up custom recommended items for champs, making it much easier than going through .ini files and looking up item codes. The tool runs in the system tray and once additional hotkey sets are set up for champions they appear in the menu, letting you swap them in at the click of a button. Anyone interested in testing can grab it from my site: http://www.void.net.nz/loltool.html. Just stick it anywhere and run, no install required (it does need .Net 4.0 though, there's a link on the page if you need it). It still needs testing and bugs are likely (feel free to PM me if you find any and I'll get right on fixing them). It's also a little rough around the edges but it should pretty much work. If there's any interest I'll also make a thread just for it in the future. Suggestions for additional features are welcome. highlighting this post a bit i will test it out tonight, awesome work man Thanks man, let me know what you think. Just a heads up, I just did some testing myself and fixed a silly bug that actually broke the whole swapping in hotkey sets functionality. So if you already grabbed it make sure to redownload it.
i grabbed it about 4 hours ago
i only messed around with the recommended item swapper but it was fantastic
i don't know how much marketability means to you but you should consider throwing some graphics on that and marketing it. maybe not for a fee, but just to promote yourself or w/e. i'll take this to PM
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Is that leona on the left lol?
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EPT
