[Patch 1.0.0.140: Darius] General Discussion - Page 108

On June 05 2012 07:48 OutlaW- wrote:

How do you know that? The part about ap cow not being viable anymore

On June 05 2012 08:04 Shikyo wrote:
Hey I just now saw Darius for the first time as I've been busy with other things, is his ulti as ridiculous as it sounds or does it have some obvious disadvantage like melee range and long animation?

On June 05 2012 08:03 Seuss wrote:
His ratios used to be 0.8 on his Q, 1.0 on his W, and 0.4 on his E. Now they are 0.5, 0.7, and 0.2 respectively. There aren't many AP champions who could take 0.8 in AP ratio cuts and still be viable.

On June 05 2012 08:37 UniversalSnip wrote:
Pre-rework ali couldn't really survive vs pushers in lane and the ratios weren't really higher considering trample ap ratio. ppl like to pretend it was a good solo though, just nobody except them knew about it

On June 05 2012 08:50 gtrsrs wrote:


he was a top-tier mid and an above average top for the like... 1 month that people used him extensively before his big changes. jiji especially
you simply couldn't trade with headbutt. it has absurd range and the knockback prevents you from retaliating
heal had a great ratio, didn't even need to be leveled
also had a great gank assist with 2 forms of CC

it was a really good thing they nerfed him tbh, although he was a BLAST in teamfights

On June 05 2012 09:05 Frolossus wrote:

that was all after they gave him imba ratios

On June 05 2012 09:05 Frolossus wrote:

that was all after they gave him imba ratios

On June 05 2012 09:15 UniversalSnip wrote:


He always had imba ratios. Here's the timeline

Phase 1 (Before my Time): Ali was imba tank straight tank. 2.5 second stun on Q, longer ult duration, tanky items were MUCH stronger generally, E healed allies for 100%. Had 1.0 Q and W ratios, but nobody played him AP.
Phase 2: They nerfed him and nobody thought he was good anymore.
Phase 3: They start looking into remaking him, eventually they figure out he's actually very good just nobody is playing him. Then they do remake him, giving him his current passive. His AP ratios don't really go down since he got one on his passive. Crucially for most of phase 2 deathcap didn't exist but at this point it did. So now AP cow is really imba. He's king assassin, everybody plays him, he gets nerfed constantly until he lands where he is now.

Personally I feel AP cow wasn't secretly insane during phase 2. He really had no tools vs good pushers. For example sion was very strong at the time and I don't know wtf old cow is supposed to do vs him.

On June 05 2012 09:23 Eppa! wrote:
Once zonyas ring came into the game RoA became obsolete. Sustain was incredible at this point in time mid. I think this around the glory time of Alistar mid. RoA buff and Zonya split where both terrible for alistar.

On June 05 2012 09:21 Ryuu314 wrote:

Your so-called phase 2 nerfs did not touch AP alistar at all. People stopped playing him and thought he sucked because everyone was playing as a pure tank.

They reduced the stuntime on his Q from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds (both times include the knockup duration as part of the "stun time"). They made it so his E doesn't heal 100% to allies, but reduced the cd reduction from 4 seconds to 2 seconds. They also nerfed duration on his ulti by 2 seconds.

Ali was just as strong against pushers as he was after rework. I really don't know why you think he wasn't. Pulverize wave clears pretty darn well. Cow raped Sion before and after the rework. Seeing how you had equivalent ratios and base damages, if Sion shields, you headbutt/pulv him and pop his shield. Not only that, but a 0.4 ratio heal to your minions works really damn well as an anti-push too.

On June 05 2012 09:23 Eppa! wrote:
Once zonyas ring came into the game RoA became obsolete. Sustain was incredible at this point in time mid. I think this around the glory time of Alistar mid. RoA buff and Zonya split where both terrible for alistar.

On June 05 2012 09:32 UniversalSnip wrote:


What do you mean so-called phase 2 nerfs? Did you read what I wrote? I thought it was a pretty good overview.



Ok, you did read what I wrote, since you repeated it for no evident reason. Alistar has received a number of nerfs, I provided the timeline so they wouldn't get mixed up. I haven't said anything about how good AP was in phase 1, I don't know where you think I'm coming from.



If he shields and you combo it, congrats, you used way more mana than he had to and you didn't get anywhere. It takes a while before you can pulverize every wave and not take any risk doing it, sion has a shield so he's protected while he clears shit.