• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:09
CEST 08:09
KST 15:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202531RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams2Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 501 users

[Patch 1.0.0.139: Spectator Mode] General Discussion - Pag…

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 73 225 Next
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-07 19:43:03
May 07 2012 19:40 GMT
#1401
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think that the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
May 07 2012 19:43 GMT
#1402
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 07 2012 19:44 GMT
#1403
On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.

I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-07 19:52:54
May 07 2012 19:51 GMT
#1404
On May 08 2012 04:44 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.

I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago.

uuuh she should be just inside a year i think. I remember hearing about her right before finals last year.

huh. November 2 2010. Wrong semester.

Point stands though. The remake sucked. That WCG patch was the best state LoL was in. Then they thrashed it.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-07 19:51:58
May 07 2012 19:51 GMT
#1405
On May 08 2012 04:44 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.

I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago.

Nov 2, 2010 to be exact.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V1.0.0.104
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
May 07 2012 19:51 GMT
#1406
Trying my hand at commentating a couple games of my friends on stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Celial

Gimme feedback gogogoog :D <3
Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
May 07 2012 19:58 GMT
#1407
On May 08 2012 04:23 Lmui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 02:58 epoc wrote:
What are some good ap mids out of the 6300 ip ones? I already got cass.


In Froggen's AMA a while back the 5 mids he said that one HAD to know were galio, ahri, kennen, morgana and ryze. Ahri would be my recommendation, you have power, mobility would be a good addition to your roster.


I agree with this, you already use Cassio (which should probably be the 6th name on that list), whose main weaknesses are based on her weak mobility and on-demand cc. Ahri fixes both of that.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
May 07 2012 19:59 GMT
#1408
On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.


The initial jungle remake was horrifically bad, but the end result is not something worthy of being labeled the "worst".
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
May 07 2012 20:02 GMT
#1409
I just miss jungle akali
:3
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-07 20:10:07
May 07 2012 20:07 GMT
#1410
On May 08 2012 04:59 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:
On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote:
Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design.

I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is.

I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.

I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.


The initial jungle remake was horrifically bad, but the end result is not something worthy of being labeled the "worst".

I dont actually think they changed much from the "horrifically bad" system. Only thing I can remember is the inconcequential banking system and possibly a VERY small exp increase, but thats it. Its just a case of getting used to the new crappy jungle and convincing ourselves that its not THAT bad just cuz we dont have any choice.

But even then, the comparison between the state of the jungle we had in the last patch prior to the change (WCG) to what we have now is like comparing a Filet Minon to a flank steak. Sure the flank steak will do ya, but it just doesnt compare.

Thats why I consider it the worst change. We saw something that was the best it had ever been, then it got reworked for no good reason.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
May 07 2012 20:12 GMT
#1411
Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him.
:3
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
May 07 2012 20:13 GMT
#1412
i just bought ahri on an impulse last night and and probably haven't been so immediately happy with a champ purchase ever.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 07 2012 20:16 GMT
#1413
On May 08 2012 05:12 Eiii wrote:
Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him.

eh, he's also wrong. lee actually benefited quite a bit from the remake IMO. Mobility went up a ton in jungle value and he's got that in spades.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-07 20:19:53
May 07 2012 20:17 GMT
#1414
The biggest change was the speed at which you could garner exp and gold. Because camps were more concentrated, on longer respawns, it was much easier to go through phases where you would spend time ganking, then make a quick farm run, then spend time ganking again.

Clearest example is the struggle that TOO had: instead of being able to focus on helping lanes while still keeping up on levels and gold (longer respawn timers and higher gains) he struggled with the balance between farming and ganking.

I also consider the pre change jungle to be the best we ever saw. Games were much more dynamic BECAUSE jungles would clear, then have 30 seconds before a buff came up so they were free to go about the map and try to make things happen. It basically came back to Riot's seeming philosophy to make it impossible for anyone to actually die because then people might feel bad.

On May 08 2012 05:16 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2012 05:12 Eiii wrote:
Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him.

eh, he's also wrong. lee actually benefited quite a bit from the remake IMO. Mobility went up a ton in jungle value and he's got that in spades.

Yes and no IMO. He certainly benifited from the standpoint of the level 2 red gank, and the fact that mobility is key (as you noted) as well as the fact that he excells against low health champs (which made his counterjungle much more impressive because of the decreased leveling speed of the enemy jungle).

However, LS REALLY loved the fact that he could easily gank and not have to worry about losing farm or exp because his camps hadn't respawned. It meant gank time was essentially free.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
May 07 2012 20:18 GMT
#1415
I think the jungle change mostly just really hit his specific playstyle, and he wasn't comfortable with (or willing to) shift how he played for quite a while.
:3
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
May 07 2012 20:35 GMT
#1416
I hate the jungle change because instead of letting more junglers become viable as was teh intention, it actually, imo, made less champs viable simply because certain champs/kits became so much better than others at jungling. Case in point, Fiddle went from super popular to one of the shittiest champs in LoL.

This is not to mention counterjungling was, imo anyways, much more dynamic in the old jungle whereas in new jungle it's kinda meh outside of taking buffs.
Node
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States2159 Posts
May 07 2012 20:36 GMT
#1417
Why are level 2 ganks / lane camps so much more popular after the change? Is it just because junglers have more health after doing red now? Or is it the decreased opportunity cost of doing so? (ie it's just less of a trade-off than it was before)
whole lies with a half smile
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
May 07 2012 20:39 GMT
#1418
I'd say it has more to do with people realizing that level 2 ganks can be cheap and overpowered.
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
May 07 2012 20:40 GMT
#1419
Since when was Yorick ult called "Horcrux"?!
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
May 07 2012 20:41 GMT
#1420
On May 08 2012 05:36 Node wrote:
Why are level 2 ganks / lane camps so much more popular after the change? Is it just because junglers have more health after doing red now? Or is it the decreased opportunity cost of doing so? (ie it's just less of a trade-off than it was before)

I don't want to start another row with T_D over this, but I still see it as a decreased opportunity cost of doing so.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 73 225 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech71
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 338
Snow 264
ToSsGirL 118
Leta 87
Backho 62
Sacsri 53
Dota 2
ODPixel295
XcaliburYe32
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1017
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox453
Other Games
summit1g5424
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1220
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH422
• practicex 46
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota214
League of Legends
• Stunt425
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
3h 51m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 3h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.