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On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think that the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks.
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On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.
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On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc. I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago.
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On May 08 2012 04:44 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc. I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago. uuuh she should be just inside a year i think. I remember hearing about her right before finals last year.
huh. November 2 2010. Wrong semester.
Point stands though. The remake sucked. That WCG patch was the best state LoL was in. Then they thrashed it.
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On May 08 2012 04:44 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc. I'm pretty sure Leblanc was released more than a year ago. Nov 2, 2010 to be exact. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/V1.0.0.104
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On May 08 2012 04:23 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 02:58 epoc wrote: What are some good ap mids out of the 6300 ip ones? I already got cass. In Froggen's AMA a while back the 5 mids he said that one HAD to know were galio, ahri, kennen, morgana and ryze. Ahri would be my recommendation, you have power, mobility would be a good addition to your roster.
I agree with this, you already use Cassio (which should probably be the 6th name on that list), whose main weaknesses are based on her weak mobility and on-demand cc. Ahri fixes both of that.
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On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc.
The initial jungle remake was horrifically bad, but the end result is not something worthy of being labeled the "worst".
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I just miss jungle akali
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On May 08 2012 04:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 04:43 Two_DoWn wrote:On May 08 2012 04:40 Mogwai wrote:On May 08 2012 04:20 TheYango wrote:On May 08 2012 04:08 JackDino wrote: Hopefully never, such a stupid champ with such a stupid kit. Riot #1 kit design. I've said this since before he was nerfed: the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is that every other champ isn't as awesome as he is. I on the other hand think th at the only regrettable thing about Lee Sin's design is the jungle remake and level 2 red buff ganks. I still maintain that the jungle remake was the single worst thing they implemented in the past year. And that includes release Leblanc. The initial jungle remake was horrifically bad, but the end result is not something worthy of being labeled the "worst". I dont actually think they changed much from the "horrifically bad" system. Only thing I can remember is the inconcequential banking system and possibly a VERY small exp increase, but thats it. Its just a case of getting used to the new crappy jungle and convincing ourselves that its not THAT bad just cuz we dont have any choice.
But even then, the comparison between the state of the jungle we had in the last patch prior to the change (WCG) to what we have now is like comparing a Filet Minon to a flank steak. Sure the flank steak will do ya, but it just doesnt compare.
Thats why I consider it the worst change. We saw something that was the best it had ever been, then it got reworked for no good reason.
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Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him.
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i just bought ahri on an impulse last night and and probably haven't been so immediately happy with a champ purchase ever.
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On May 08 2012 05:12 Eiii wrote: Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him. eh, he's also wrong. lee actually benefited quite a bit from the remake IMO. Mobility went up a ton in jungle value and he's got that in spades.
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The biggest change was the speed at which you could garner exp and gold. Because camps were more concentrated, on longer respawns, it was much easier to go through phases where you would spend time ganking, then make a quick farm run, then spend time ganking again.
Clearest example is the struggle that TOO had: instead of being able to focus on helping lanes while still keeping up on levels and gold (longer respawn timers and higher gains) he struggled with the balance between farming and ganking.
I also consider the pre change jungle to be the best we ever saw. Games were much more dynamic BECAUSE jungles would clear, then have 30 seconds before a buff came up so they were free to go about the map and try to make things happen. It basically came back to Riot's seeming philosophy to make it impossible for anyone to actually die because then people might feel bad.
On May 08 2012 05:16 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2012 05:12 Eiii wrote: Can you talk about what the negative consequences of the changes were? I didn't play jungle at all at the time, but a friend who played lee sin was really unhappy and felt that his ability to affect games went way down. tbh I didn't feel too sorry for him. eh, he's also wrong. lee actually benefited quite a bit from the remake IMO. Mobility went up a ton in jungle value and he's got that in spades. Yes and no IMO. He certainly benifited from the standpoint of the level 2 red gank, and the fact that mobility is key (as you noted) as well as the fact that he excells against low health champs (which made his counterjungle much more impressive because of the decreased leveling speed of the enemy jungle).
However, LS REALLY loved the fact that he could easily gank and not have to worry about losing farm or exp because his camps hadn't respawned. It meant gank time was essentially free.
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I think the jungle change mostly just really hit his specific playstyle, and he wasn't comfortable with (or willing to) shift how he played for quite a while.
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I hate the jungle change because instead of letting more junglers become viable as was teh intention, it actually, imo, made less champs viable simply because certain champs/kits became so much better than others at jungling. Case in point, Fiddle went from super popular to one of the shittiest champs in LoL.
This is not to mention counterjungling was, imo anyways, much more dynamic in the old jungle whereas in new jungle it's kinda meh outside of taking buffs.
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Why are level 2 ganks / lane camps so much more popular after the change? Is it just because junglers have more health after doing red now? Or is it the decreased opportunity cost of doing so? (ie it's just less of a trade-off than it was before)
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I'd say it has more to do with people realizing that level 2 ganks can be cheap and overpowered.
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Since when was Yorick ult called "Horcrux"?!
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On May 08 2012 05:36 Node wrote: Why are level 2 ganks / lane camps so much more popular after the change? Is it just because junglers have more health after doing red now? Or is it the decreased opportunity cost of doing so? (ie it's just less of a trade-off than it was before) I don't want to start another row with T_D over this, but I still see it as a decreased opportunity cost of doing so.
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