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[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 212

Forum Index > LoL General
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.

Thanks. Happy Gaming.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
March 18 2012 17:17 GMT
#4221
On March 19 2012 02:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 02:05 nojitosunrise wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:51 petered wrote:
How did the CLG guys get such high level accounts so fast? Or have they been there long enough to level it up themselves?



They were sharing a locodoco smurf

and now they are playing from a PC cafe. (pc cafes have all champions/runes unlocked and level 30)

BRB movin to Korea.



Riot Korea are freaking brilliant at marketing the game. They franchise out the game to PC cafe's. With most of the content unlocked for the gamers to enjoy. It's a win win situation for both Riot and the PC cafe owner.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 18 2012 17:19 GMT
#4222
hmm. How much lol would I need to play to be considered a franchizable location? Maybe if TL all bundled together...
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-18 17:39:10
March 18 2012 17:20 GMT
#4223
On March 19 2012 01:23 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2012 23:21 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:52 red_ wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:25 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I don't like most of the math in this thread. It isn't accurate at all and doesn't consider any hidden variables. Just ignore it -_-


Honestly, I ran some numbers... (insert kind-of math here)


This thread is so entertaining sometimes.

At least I didn't post specific numbers and pass them as fact.

That worse, kinda. Can't even argue about your results properly because you didn't provide the data that you based your results on. If you did, and it was wrong, it would be simple to correct. Without the numbers it would be like: "Based on some undisclosed math I come to this conclusion." "Based on some more undisclosed math I claim that your conclusion is bullshit."

Alright dragon is worth 800 cs because you can only get it every 10 minutes on average and need all 5 members to get it in late game. That's why it's never worth it. How's that for crap theorycraft BS.

Honestly no one should post numbers without calculations and disclaimers.

+ Show Spoiler +
Jax, high CDR and AP, AD

2W, 2R
150AP
75bonus AD
Ult adds 65+.2*75 AD and 65+.2*150AP
80AD, 95AP
New AD, AP
155 AD, 245AP

Combined Bonus AD ratio: 2
Combined AP ratio: .6+2*.6+2*.7=3.2
155*2=310
3.2*245=784

Base damage
230+220*2+300+2*220=1410

Add damage on his ratios:
1410+310+784=2504

Triforce Procs are nice.
His passive is only good in drawn out fights, and for farming/jungling. He really shouldn't get a chance to use it much.

Build order something like
triforce: slow, 30AP, 30AD, proc, CDR (zeal component useless so build that later)
Gunblade: active, 40AD, 70AP, spellvamp, lifesteal
DFG: 60AP, active, CDR
Grand total 70AD, 160AP

+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +
That's what I had in my text file I used values of AD and AP that I would build on jax from. DFG, triforce, and gunblade combined give 70AD and 160AP. Close enough to 75AD and 150 AP. There are a lot more variables like when you use DFG in your combo: before or after Q and how much life your target has. I like doing damage calculations on champions at level 18 because I feel like you should always be building with lategame in mind even if you think you're an early game champion. That doesn't mean I don't do calculations at lower levels, I just didn't for this case.

2504 is a big number but I saw bigger numbers with some other bruisers. The number grows a bit more when you use DFG's active and Gunblade's active as well as Triforce procs, but being able to use item actives isn't unique to any one champion.

Now as soon as you remove the AP and AD scaling on his ult that number drops even more. They're trying to make jax a sustained fighter, only he'll do like a quarter(no sixteenth)(sixtyfourth) of the sustained DPS of some other sustained fighters, namely the AD ranged.

The fact that he's a hybrid and can't itemize for armor or magic pen makes him even worse.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 18 2012 17:22 GMT
#4224
I remember a bunch of us talking about how Nocturne is still really good like two GD's ago or something. Everyone just completely dropped Nocturne after his nerfs because the range nerf on his E was pretty significant, but kinda like with every single reactionary bullshit that the LoL community goes through with almost every little nerf and buff, Nocturne was still left as a pretty good champion. His pre-6 ganks got hit pretty hard and I don't think anyone will deny that, but he still clears fast and he still has one of the strongest ults in the game and because of his kit he still does a ton of damage even if his only offensive item is a ghostblade.

Junglers on top teams seem to have started to pick him up again though, after a long lull.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
March 18 2012 17:24 GMT
#4225
Noct got the ult nerf, but he also got some sizable q and e nerfs as well. The champ we have now is still just a shell of his former self. It just turns out that a lot of the options we have post jungle remake arent much better.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
March 18 2012 17:26 GMT
#4226
On March 19 2012 01:39 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 01:20 JackDino wrote:
Noct in general underrated, still clears fast, ganks well, can initiate well, can tank if building for it, can assassinate if building for it, also #1 shen counter. Almost never see him these days, atleast in tourneys and the like.


Agreed. Nocturne is actually like really good.

I've been counterpicking Shyvana with him for the last week or so.... he killls her 1v1 like every time, if you can spellshield her W it is disgustingly one sided.


wait how do you spellshield burnout?
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
March 18 2012 17:29 GMT
#4227
On March 19 2012 02:26 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 01:39 iCanada wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:20 JackDino wrote:
Noct in general underrated, still clears fast, ganks well, can initiate well, can tank if building for it, can assassinate if building for it, also #1 shen counter. Almost never see him these days, atleast in tourneys and the like.


Agreed. Nocturne is actually like really good.

I've been counterpicking Shyvana with him for the last week or so.... he killls her 1v1 like every time, if you can spellshield her W it is disgustingly one sided.


wait how do you spellshield burnout?


I imagine he meant her armor debuff.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 18 2012 17:31 GMT
#4228
The Q and R nerfs you're talking about isn't what made people drop Nocturne a couple months back though. It was pretty much entirely related to his E nerf. Prior to the last E nerf Nocturne was still a popular champion and he was used often by top teams.
billy5000
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States865 Posts
March 18 2012 17:35 GMT
#4229
okay, so everyone knows that irelia with tp is really good. how about a top lane noc with tp? the only bad thing i can come up with is that he'll push his lane due to his passive. what do you guys think, is it worth trying out?
Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder, 'Why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand. Vonnegut
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
March 18 2012 17:40 GMT
#4230
On March 19 2012 02:35 billy5000 wrote:
okay, so everyone knows that irelia with tp is really good. how about a top lane noc with tp? the only bad thing i can come up with is that he'll push his lane due to his passive. what do you guys think, is it worth trying out?

Because irelia with tp is great, a completely different champ with tp might be good aswell? What?
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 18 2012 17:40 GMT
#4231
On March 19 2012 02:26 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 01:39 iCanada wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:20 JackDino wrote:
Noct in general underrated, still clears fast, ganks well, can initiate well, can tank if building for it, can assassinate if building for it, also #1 shen counter. Almost never see him these days, atleast in tourneys and the like.


Agreed. Nocturne is actually like really good.

I've been counterpicking Shyvana with him for the last week or so.... he killls her 1v1 like every time, if you can spellshield her W it is disgustingly one sided.


wait how do you spellshield burnout?


My bad, I meant E. The Armor shred. Shy does significantly less damage and nows you do more.
fishinguy
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation798 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-18 17:49:34
March 18 2012 17:49 GMT
#4232
On March 19 2012 02:40 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 02:26 UniversalSnip wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:39 iCanada wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:20 JackDino wrote:
Noct in general underrated, still clears fast, ganks well, can initiate well, can tank if building for it, can assassinate if building for it, also #1 shen counter. Almost never see him these days, atleast in tourneys and the like.


Agreed. Nocturne is actually like really good.

I've been counterpicking Shyvana with him for the last week or so.... he killls her 1v1 like every time, if you can spellshield her W it is disgustingly one sided.


wait how do you spellshield burnout?


My bad, I meant E. The Armor shred. Shy does significantly less damage and nows you do more.


Noc can pretty much duel anyone if he manages to time the spell shield right because not only does in block a significant amount of enemy damage, it also gives you a big AS boost as well....

iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 18 2012 17:50 GMT
#4233
On March 19 2012 02:35 billy5000 wrote:
okay, so everyone knows that irelia with tp is really good. how about a top lane noc with tp? the only bad thing i can come up with is that he'll push his lane due to his passive. what do you guys think, is it worth trying out?


Hmmm, I think it would be good. Would synergize well with the fact that he pushes the lane out hard. Just like how a mid will clear a wave then gank/kill jungle creeps/wander Noct could do the same with Ulti/TP. Only thing is that it much farther to go back as Nocturne.

Still not the typical top lane shin dig, usually when I grab I lead I really comfortable just freezing lane and free farming for ten minutes.

<3 being big.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
March 18 2012 17:59 GMT
#4234
Nocturne's still got his place. He's still the only champ that really counters global ults like tf and shen.
Remember Violet.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
March 18 2012 18:01 GMT
#4235
DAMNIT

I was just in normal lobby with Rinoa, RivingtonThe3rd, and scarr, but someone on the other team queue dodged =(
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
March 18 2012 18:02 GMT
#4236
This is coming from someone that isn't very good, but when I play nocturne jungle I play him as more of a counter ganker once I hit 6. So I usually just farm until their jungler tries to gank, and then I ulti in.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
March 18 2012 18:08 GMT
#4237
On March 19 2012 03:02 OreoBoi wrote:
This is coming from someone that isn't very good, but when I play nocturne jungle I play him as more of a counter ganker once I hit 6. So I usually just farm until their jungler tries to gank, and then I ulti in.


When the last time you played Noct?

Using his Ulti to countergank at six borderline impossible. Maybe 2000 range level one, barely enough to jump from tower to tower.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-18 18:19:24
March 18 2012 18:09 GMT
#4238
Anyone catching TSM's streams today?

TSM's botlane is looking real terror lately
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
March 18 2012 18:10 GMT
#4239
On March 19 2012 02:20 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 01:23 spinesheath wrote:
On March 18 2012 23:21 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:52 red_ wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:25 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I don't like most of the math in this thread. It isn't accurate at all and doesn't consider any hidden variables. Just ignore it -_-


Honestly, I ran some numbers... (insert kind-of math here)


This thread is so entertaining sometimes.

At least I didn't post specific numbers and pass them as fact.

That worse, kinda. Can't even argue about your results properly because you didn't provide the data that you based your results on. If you did, and it was wrong, it would be simple to correct. Without the numbers it would be like: "Based on some undisclosed math I come to this conclusion." "Based on some more undisclosed math I claim that your conclusion is bullshit."

Alright dragon is worth 800 cs because you can only get it every 10 minutes on average and need all 5 members to get it in late game. That's why it's never worth it. How's that for crap theorycraft BS.

Honestly no one should post numbers without calculations and disclaimers.

+ Show Spoiler +
Jax, high CDR and AP, AD

2W, 2R
150AP
75bonus AD
Ult adds 65+.2*75 AD and 65+.2*150AP
80AD, 95AP
New AD, AP
155 AD, 245AP

Combined Bonus AD ratio: 2
Combined AP ratio: .6+2*.6+2*.7=3.2
155*2=310
3.2*245=784

Base damage
230+220*2+300+2*220=1410

Add damage on his ratios:
1410+310+784=2504

Triforce Procs are nice.
His passive is only good in drawn out fights, and for farming/jungling. He really shouldn't get a chance to use it much.

Build order something like
triforce: slow, 30AP, 30AD, proc, CDR (zeal component useless so build that later)
Gunblade: active, 40AD, 70AP, spellvamp, lifesteal
DFG: 60AP, active, CDR
Grand total 70AD, 160AP

+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +
That's what I had in my text file I used values of AD and AP that I would build on jax from. DFG, triforce, and gunblade combined give 70AD and 160AP. Close enough to 75AD and 150 AP. There are a lot more variables like when you use DFG in your combo: before or after Q and how much life your target has. I like doing damage calculations on champions at level 18 because I feel like you should always be building with lategame in mind even if you think you're an early game champion. That doesn't mean I don't do calculations at lower levels, I just didn't for this case.

2504 is a big number but I saw bigger numbers with some other bruisers. The number grows a bit more when you use DFG's active and Gunblade's active as well as Triforce procs, but being able to use item actives isn't unique to any one champion.

Now as soon as you remove the AP and AD scaling on his ult that number drops even more. They're trying to make jax a sustained fighter, only he'll do like a quarter(no sixteenth)(sixtyfourth) of the sustained DPS of some other sustained fighters, namely the AD ranged.

The fact that he's a hybrid and can't itemize for armor or magic pen makes him even worse.


getting mpen/arpen on bruisers is very situational most of the times anyways and even if youd like to have it on them sometimes you cannot afford it over other stuff. This highly situational contra to jax doesnt even make up for the fact that he scales so incredibly well with the single most costeffective item in the game besides stacked snowball stuff, namely rageblade.

and saying that they're trying to make him a sustained fighter is a funny statement since he has more basedamage than before the remake. Also he allways was a sustained fighter who got a good amount of burst and mobility on top of it but i don't think ppl ever considered him an assassin.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
March 18 2012 18:26 GMT
#4240
On March 19 2012 03:10 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2012 02:20 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On March 19 2012 01:23 spinesheath wrote:
On March 18 2012 23:21 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:52 red_ wrote:
On March 18 2012 22:25 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I don't like most of the math in this thread. It isn't accurate at all and doesn't consider any hidden variables. Just ignore it -_-


Honestly, I ran some numbers... (insert kind-of math here)


This thread is so entertaining sometimes.

At least I didn't post specific numbers and pass them as fact.

That worse, kinda. Can't even argue about your results properly because you didn't provide the data that you based your results on. If you did, and it was wrong, it would be simple to correct. Without the numbers it would be like: "Based on some undisclosed math I come to this conclusion." "Based on some more undisclosed math I claim that your conclusion is bullshit."

Alright dragon is worth 800 cs because you can only get it every 10 minutes on average and need all 5 members to get it in late game. That's why it's never worth it. How's that for crap theorycraft BS.

Honestly no one should post numbers without calculations and disclaimers.

+ Show Spoiler +
Jax, high CDR and AP, AD

2W, 2R
150AP
75bonus AD
Ult adds 65+.2*75 AD and 65+.2*150AP
80AD, 95AP
New AD, AP
155 AD, 245AP

Combined Bonus AD ratio: 2
Combined AP ratio: .6+2*.6+2*.7=3.2
155*2=310
3.2*245=784

Base damage
230+220*2+300+2*220=1410

Add damage on his ratios:
1410+310+784=2504

Triforce Procs are nice.
His passive is only good in drawn out fights, and for farming/jungling. He really shouldn't get a chance to use it much.

Build order something like
triforce: slow, 30AP, 30AD, proc, CDR (zeal component useless so build that later)
Gunblade: active, 40AD, 70AP, spellvamp, lifesteal
DFG: 60AP, active, CDR
Grand total 70AD, 160AP

+ Show Spoiler [explanation] +
That's what I had in my text file I used values of AD and AP that I would build on jax from. DFG, triforce, and gunblade combined give 70AD and 160AP. Close enough to 75AD and 150 AP. There are a lot more variables like when you use DFG in your combo: before or after Q and how much life your target has. I like doing damage calculations on champions at level 18 because I feel like you should always be building with lategame in mind even if you think you're an early game champion. That doesn't mean I don't do calculations at lower levels, I just didn't for this case.

2504 is a big number but I saw bigger numbers with some other bruisers. The number grows a bit more when you use DFG's active and Gunblade's active as well as Triforce procs, but being able to use item actives isn't unique to any one champion.

Now as soon as you remove the AP and AD scaling on his ult that number drops even more. They're trying to make jax a sustained fighter, only he'll do like a quarter(no sixteenth)(sixtyfourth) of the sustained DPS of some other sustained fighters, namely the AD ranged.

The fact that he's a hybrid and can't itemize for armor or magic pen makes him even worse.


getting mpen/arpen on bruisers is very situational most of the times anyways and even if youd like to have it on them sometimes you cannot afford it over other stuff. This highly situational contra to jax doesnt even make up for the fact that he scales so incredibly well with the single most costeffective item in the game besides stacked snowball stuff, namely rageblade.

and saying that they're trying to make him a sustained fighter is a funny statement since he has more basedamage than before the remake. Also he allways was a sustained fighter who got a good amount of burst and mobility on top of it but i don't think ppl ever considered him an assassin.

I don't consider him an assasin either, I just feel he won't do enough damage when they remove the AD/AP scaling on his ult. His burst and sustained damage will both drop such that champions like wukong and shyvana will outclass him in every way.
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