EPTRiot Korea are freaking brilliant at marketing the game. They franchise out the game to PC cafe's. With most of the content unlocked for the gamers to enjoy. It's a win win situation for both Riot and the PC cafe owner.
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 212
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
Riot Korea are freaking brilliant at marketing the game. They franchise out the game to PC cafe's. With most of the content unlocked for the gamers to enjoy. It's a win win situation for both Riot and the PC cafe owner. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 19 2012 01:23 spinesheath wrote: That worse, kinda. Can't even argue about your results properly because you didn't provide the data that you based your results on. If you did, and it was wrong, it would be simple to correct. Without the numbers it would be like: "Based on some undisclosed math I come to this conclusion." "Based on some more undisclosed math I claim that your conclusion is bullshit." Alright dragon is worth 800 cs because you can only get it every 10 minutes on average and need all 5 members to get it in late game. That's why it's never worth it. How's that for crap theorycraft BS. Honestly no one should post numbers without calculations and disclaimers. + Show Spoiler + Jax, high CDR and AP, AD 2W, 2R 150AP 75bonus AD Ult adds 65+.2*75 AD and 65+.2*150AP 80AD, 95AP New AD, AP 155 AD, 245AP Combined Bonus AD ratio: 2 Combined AP ratio: .6+2*.6+2*.7=3.2 155*2=310 3.2*245=784 Base damage 230+220*2+300+2*220=1410 Add damage on his ratios: 1410+310+784=2504 Triforce Procs are nice. His passive is only good in drawn out fights, and for farming/jungling. He really shouldn't get a chance to use it much. Build order something like triforce: slow, 30AP, 30AD, proc, CDR (zeal component useless so build that later) Gunblade: active, 40AD, 70AP, spellvamp, lifesteal DFG: 60AP, active, CDR Grand total 70AD, 160AP + Show Spoiler [explanation] + That's what I had in my text file I used values of AD and AP that I would build on jax from. DFG, triforce, and gunblade combined give 70AD and 160AP. Close enough to 75AD and 150 AP. There are a lot more variables like when you use DFG in your combo: before or after Q and how much life your target has. I like doing damage calculations on champions at level 18 because I feel like you should always be building with lategame in mind even if you think you're an early game champion. That doesn't mean I don't do calculations at lower levels, I just didn't for this case. 2504 is a big number but I saw bigger numbers with some other bruisers. The number grows a bit more when you use DFG's active and Gunblade's active as well as Triforce procs, but being able to use item actives isn't unique to any one champion. Now as soon as you remove the AP and AD scaling on his ult that number drops even more. They're trying to make jax a sustained fighter, only he'll do like a quarter(no sixteenth)(sixtyfourth) of the sustained DPS of some other sustained fighters, namely the AD ranged. The fact that he's a hybrid and can't itemize for armor or magic pen makes him even worse. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Junglers on top teams seem to have started to pick him up again though, after a long lull. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 19 2012 01:39 iCanada wrote: Agreed. Nocturne is actually like really good. I've been counterpicking Shyvana with him for the last week or so.... he killls her 1v1 like every time, if you can spellshield her W it is disgustingly one sided. wait how do you spellshield burnout? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I imagine he meant her armor debuff. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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billy5000
United States865 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:35 billy5000 wrote: okay, so everyone knows that irelia with tp is really good. how about a top lane noc with tp? the only bad thing i can come up with is that he'll push his lane due to his passive. what do you guys think, is it worth trying out? Because irelia with tp is great, a completely different champ with tp might be good aswell? What? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
My bad, I meant E. The Armor shred. Shy does significantly less damage and nows you do more. | ||
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fishinguy
Russian Federation798 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:40 iCanada wrote: My bad, I meant E. The Armor shred. Shy does significantly less damage and nows you do more. Noc can pretty much duel anyone if he manages to time the spell shield right because not only does in block a significant amount of enemy damage, it also gives you a big AS boost as well.... | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:35 billy5000 wrote: okay, so everyone knows that irelia with tp is really good. how about a top lane noc with tp? the only bad thing i can come up with is that he'll push his lane due to his passive. what do you guys think, is it worth trying out? Hmmm, I think it would be good. Would synergize well with the fact that he pushes the lane out hard. Just like how a mid will clear a wave then gank/kill jungle creeps/wander Noct could do the same with Ulti/TP. Only thing is that it much farther to go back as Nocturne. Still not the typical top lane shin dig, usually when I grab I lead I really comfortable just freezing lane and free farming for ten minutes. <3 being big. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I was just in normal lobby with Rinoa, RivingtonThe3rd, and scarr, but someone on the other team queue dodged =( | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:02 OreoBoi wrote: This is coming from someone that isn't very good, but when I play nocturne jungle I play him as more of a counter ganker once I hit 6. So I usually just farm until their jungler tries to gank, and then I ulti in. When the last time you played Noct? Using his Ulti to countergank at six borderline impossible. Maybe 2000 range level one, barely enough to jump from tower to tower. | ||
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
TSM's botlane is looking real terror lately | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On March 19 2012 02:20 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Alright dragon is worth 800 cs because you can only get it every 10 minutes on average and need all 5 members to get it in late game. That's why it's never worth it. How's that for crap theorycraft BS. Honestly no one should post numbers without calculations and disclaimers. + Show Spoiler + Jax, high CDR and AP, AD 2W, 2R 150AP 75bonus AD Ult adds 65+.2*75 AD and 65+.2*150AP 80AD, 95AP New AD, AP 155 AD, 245AP Combined Bonus AD ratio: 2 Combined AP ratio: .6+2*.6+2*.7=3.2 155*2=310 3.2*245=784 Base damage 230+220*2+300+2*220=1410 Add damage on his ratios: 1410+310+784=2504 Triforce Procs are nice. His passive is only good in drawn out fights, and for farming/jungling. He really shouldn't get a chance to use it much. Build order something like triforce: slow, 30AP, 30AD, proc, CDR (zeal component useless so build that later) Gunblade: active, 40AD, 70AP, spellvamp, lifesteal DFG: 60AP, active, CDR Grand total 70AD, 160AP + Show Spoiler [explanation] + That's what I had in my text file I used values of AD and AP that I would build on jax from. DFG, triforce, and gunblade combined give 70AD and 160AP. Close enough to 75AD and 150 AP. There are a lot more variables like when you use DFG in your combo: before or after Q and how much life your target has. I like doing damage calculations on champions at level 18 because I feel like you should always be building with lategame in mind even if you think you're an early game champion. That doesn't mean I don't do calculations at lower levels, I just didn't for this case. 2504 is a big number but I saw bigger numbers with some other bruisers. The number grows a bit more when you use DFG's active and Gunblade's active as well as Triforce procs, but being able to use item actives isn't unique to any one champion. Now as soon as you remove the AP and AD scaling on his ult that number drops even more. They're trying to make jax a sustained fighter, only he'll do like a quarter(no sixteenth)(sixtyfourth) of the sustained DPS of some other sustained fighters, namely the AD ranged. The fact that he's a hybrid and can't itemize for armor or magic pen makes him even worse. getting mpen/arpen on bruisers is very situational most of the times anyways and even if youd like to have it on them sometimes you cannot afford it over other stuff. This highly situational contra to jax doesnt even make up for the fact that he scales so incredibly well with the single most costeffective item in the game besides stacked snowball stuff, namely rageblade. and saying that they're trying to make him a sustained fighter is a funny statement since he has more basedamage than before the remake. Also he allways was a sustained fighter who got a good amount of burst and mobility on top of it but i don't think ppl ever considered him an assassin. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:10 clickrush wrote: getting mpen/arpen on bruisers is very situational most of the times anyways and even if youd like to have it on them sometimes you cannot afford it over other stuff. This highly situational contra to jax doesnt even make up for the fact that he scales so incredibly well with the single most costeffective item in the game besides stacked snowball stuff, namely rageblade. and saying that they're trying to make him a sustained fighter is a funny statement since he has more basedamage than before the remake. Also he allways was a sustained fighter who got a good amount of burst and mobility on top of it but i don't think ppl ever considered him an assassin. I don't consider him an assasin either, I just feel he won't do enough damage when they remove the AD/AP scaling on his ult. His burst and sustained damage will both drop such that champions like wukong and shyvana will outclass him in every way. | ||
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