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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense.
Most of the time it is.
The ONLY reasons to fight for are objectives. Means Baron, Dragon, Towers, Inhibitors. And sometimes it's better to trade those for other objectives.
Just because someone in their team was slightly out of position does not mean you have a reason to engage 4n5. If they started Baron but a person in your team isn't close, try to delay them, but avoid committing. Especially in pubs it's rather easy to split a team once baron gets below 20% health.
Giving away dragon is fine if they're 5 and you can get top tower. If you SEE that they are 5 there and you ALSO see that your top is already pushing... push mid/bot and get some damage on that tower. No reason to fight 4n5 over dragon.
Giving away drag/tower for baron is fine.
Giving away baron for inhib is (probably) fine. Not 100% sure on this one though.
PS: Fighting / going for kills just for the sake of it is most of the time a bad idea. If someone could dig out 5HITCOMBOs comparison to chess that would help. Actually ima google for that. =S
Edit: Found it. It's not about chasing kills just for the sake of getting kills explicitly tho, but the concept stays the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180786
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It's pretty easy in most situations for 4 people to prevent 5 from pushing a tower, so it's generally the right decision to go push out the other lanes so they're forced to leave and deal with it or take free tower damage. Nonetheless, people often go full retard and try to pick a fight 4v5 when there is no reason to.
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On March 18 2012 17:18 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense. Most of the time it is. The ONLY reasons to fight for are objectives. Means Baron, Dragon, Towers, Inhibitors. And sometimes it's better to trade those for other objectives. Just because someone in their team was slightly out of position does not mean you have a reason to engage 4n5. If they started Baron but a person in your team isn't close, try to delay them, but avoid committing. Especially in pubs it's rather easy to split a team once baron gets below 20% health. Giving away dragon is fine if they're 5 and you can get top tower. If you SEE that they are 5 there and you ALSO see that your top is already pushing... push mid/bot and get some damage on that tower. No reason to fight 4n5 over dragon. Giving away drag/tower for baron is fine. Giving away baron for inhib is (probably) fine. Not 100% sure on this one though. PS: Fighting / going for kills just for the sake of it is most of the time a bad idea. If someone could dig out 5HITCOMBOs comparison to chess that would help. Actually ima google for that. =S Edit: Found it. It's not about chasing kills just for the sake of getting kills explicitly tho, but the concept stays the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180786
I Getcha but the thing that gets me is when there are situations where that missing person is the difference from the 4 on my team dying or us acing the other team and allowing us to push/baron etc etc with absolutely no defense.
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This is the part of the game when you learn to make the best of a bad situation. From what you are saying, one person is out of position. The first thing you do is make sure to not get caught, and not engage. Try and stall them until your other team mate gets there. Do not commit.
Even if that one person is far away that is not an excuse for the rest of you to go 4v5.
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On March 18 2012 17:43 moochu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:18 r.Evo wrote:On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense. Most of the time it is. The ONLY reasons to fight for are objectives. Means Baron, Dragon, Towers, Inhibitors. And sometimes it's better to trade those for other objectives. Just because someone in their team was slightly out of position does not mean you have a reason to engage 4n5. If they started Baron but a person in your team isn't close, try to delay them, but avoid committing. Especially in pubs it's rather easy to split a team once baron gets below 20% health. Giving away dragon is fine if they're 5 and you can get top tower. If you SEE that they are 5 there and you ALSO see that your top is already pushing... push mid/bot and get some damage on that tower. No reason to fight 4n5 over dragon. Giving away drag/tower for baron is fine. Giving away baron for inhib is (probably) fine. Not 100% sure on this one though. PS: Fighting / going for kills just for the sake of it is most of the time a bad idea. If someone could dig out 5HITCOMBOs comparison to chess that would help. Actually ima google for that. =S Edit: Found it. It's not about chasing kills just for the sake of getting kills explicitly tho, but the concept stays the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180786 I Getcha but the thing that gets me is when there are situations where that missing person is the difference from the 4 on my team dying or us acing the other team and allowing us to push/baron etc etc with absolutely no defense.
If that person missing is the difference then why engage in a 4v5 in the first place? If they're going to go farm a lane that's pushed towards you or if they're grabbing a buff or something you should wait for them. If it's a situation where your team has to go do something now such as the enemy team is starting baron or they're trying to push down a tower you need to communicate to them to come. In an ideal world everyone would be on the same page but that doesn't always happen.
If you engage in a 4v5 while that one person is off doing something, anything, it is entirely the fault of the 4 people who engaged when all four of them die for nothing. Sure, maybe your fifth should've been there instead of off doing xyz but it seems really stupid to blame that one person because four people chose to engage in a bad fight.
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On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense.
If there are obvious things to defend /contest like Baron, Dragon, Inhib then sure the 1 person who is not defending is at fault.
But most of the times, it's just pointless fights. Why did the 4 charge in knowing full well that they are undermanned. Part of the strategy of this game are avoiding fights while gaining farm advantage. If they have 5 people crowding around and you are 4 while your carry is free farming in another lane, then it is absolutely the right decision to avoid fights and play chicken.
Edit: oops kinda forgot to refresh. all have been said by many posters above.
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On March 18 2012 17:18 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense. Most of the time it is. The ONLY reasons to fight for are objectives. Means Baron, Dragon, Towers, Inhibitors. And sometimes it's better to trade those for other objectives. Just because someone in their team was slightly out of position does not mean you have a reason to engage 4n5. If they started Baron but a person in your team isn't close, try to delay them, but avoid committing. Especially in pubs it's rather easy to split a team once baron gets below 20% health. Giving away dragon is fine if they're 5 and you can get top tower. If you SEE that they are 5 there and you ALSO see that your top is already pushing... push mid/bot and get some damage on that tower. No reason to fight 4n5 over dragon. Giving away drag/tower for baron is fine. Giving away baron for inhib is (probably) fine. Not 100% sure on this one though. PS: Fighting / going for kills just for the sake of it is most of the time a bad idea. If someone could dig out 5HITCOMBOs comparison to chess that would help. Actually ima google for that. =S Edit: Found it. It's not about chasing kills just for the sake of getting kills explicitly tho, but the concept stays the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180786
Even at 1500 elo, there's people who don't understand the importance of some stuff. One game we killed bot lane+ jungler. Correct decision is to go drag immediately. Instead they go take bot tower, while I'm attempting to solo dragon, pinging all the while, and eventually have to give it up because enemy team respawned and came. When you have the option to take either tower or dragon, always dragon. Tower's can be destroyed later, and opposing towers equalize the gold gain, but if you get dragon, that's gold on the map that just isn't there any more for the other team to take.
EDIT: Only true for early game(sub 10-15 usually)
As for giving up baron for an inhib, I think it's a good decision only when even or better. If you are behind, then they could potentially push the lane with open inhib and win a 5v5 under turret with baron buff and just end the game.
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On March 18 2012 18:29 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 17:18 r.Evo wrote:On March 18 2012 17:02 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Can someone explain something to me. 9 people are fighting. 1 person is somewhere else. That one person then says it's 4 peoples faults for fighting, when clearly 9 people knew something that 1 person didn't. Sure if they just rezzed or blue pilled, but being top is an adaquete excuse for missing a fight that takes place near baron? Some peoples thought processes don't make sense. Most of the time it is. The ONLY reasons to fight for are objectives. Means Baron, Dragon, Towers, Inhibitors. And sometimes it's better to trade those for other objectives. Just because someone in their team was slightly out of position does not mean you have a reason to engage 4n5. If they started Baron but a person in your team isn't close, try to delay them, but avoid committing. Especially in pubs it's rather easy to split a team once baron gets below 20% health. Giving away dragon is fine if they're 5 and you can get top tower. If you SEE that they are 5 there and you ALSO see that your top is already pushing... push mid/bot and get some damage on that tower. No reason to fight 4n5 over dragon. Giving away drag/tower for baron is fine. Giving away baron for inhib is (probably) fine. Not 100% sure on this one though. PS: Fighting / going for kills just for the sake of it is most of the time a bad idea. If someone could dig out 5HITCOMBOs comparison to chess that would help. Actually ima google for that. =S Edit: Found it. It's not about chasing kills just for the sake of getting kills explicitly tho, but the concept stays the same: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=180786 Even at 1500 elo, there's people who don't understand the importance of some stuff. One game we killed bot lane+ jungler. Correct decision is to go drag immediately. Instead they go take bot tower, while I'm attempting to solo dragon, pinging all the while, and eventually have to give it up because enemy team respawned and came. When you have the option to take either tower or dragon, always dragon. Tower's can be destroyed later, and opposing towers equalize the gold gain, but if you get dragon, that's gold on the map that just isn't there any more for the other team to take. As for giving up baron for an inhib, I think it's a good decision only when even or better. If you are behind, then they could potentially push the lane with open inhib and win a 5v5 under turret with baron buff and just end the game.
Depends.
Taking bot tower early is usually a bad idea since it also denies farm for the enemy if your botlane is ahead already. Taking mid instead of dragon is often a good option because of the mapcontrol mid tower provides.
For top the trade gets tricky again and imo depends on matchups & junglers involved.
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On March 18 2012 18:29 Amui wrote:
When you have the option to take either tower or dragon, always dragon. Tower's can be destroyed later, and opposing towers equalize the gold gain, but if you get dragon, that's gold on the map that just isn't there any more for the other team to take.
Not always correct. Early on, take Dragon instead of a Tower pretty much always. But as the game goes on, Towers become more and more important. The less towers the enemy team has, the more pressure can be built up on various lanes which sets up opportunities to take Baron for example.
40 minutes into the game, take the tower if you have to make a choice between Dragon and Tower.
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On March 18 2012 18:57 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 18:29 Amui wrote:
When you have the option to take either tower or dragon, always dragon. Tower's can be destroyed later, and opposing towers equalize the gold gain, but if you get dragon, that's gold on the map that just isn't there any more for the other team to take. Not always correct. Early on, take Dragon instead of a Tower pretty much always. But as the game goes on, Towers become more and more important. The less towers the enemy team has, the more pressure can be built up on various lanes which sets up opportunities to take Baron for example. 40 minutes into the game, take the tower if you have to make a choice between Dragon and Tower.
Yeah that's correct. I'll edit that to say early game. Taking towers early on doesn't help your team unless every single lane is winning hard.
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Hmm, don't know if I'm behind the times, but I just realised that the new item is so gonna be a free ticket to "your mom" jokes. >.<
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On March 18 2012 18:57 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 18:29 Amui wrote:
When you have the option to take either tower or dragon, always dragon. Tower's can be destroyed later, and opposing towers equalize the gold gain, but if you get dragon, that's gold on the map that just isn't there any more for the other team to take. Not always correct. Early on, take Dragon instead of a Tower pretty much always. But as the game goes on, Towers become more and more important. The less towers the enemy team has, the more pressure can be built up on various lanes which sets up opportunities to take Baron for example. 40 minutes into the game, take the tower if you have to make a choice between Dragon and Tower.
I would like to add that in many situations taking dragon is safer and should often be preferred over taking Towers, especially inner towers. Sieging a tower when enemy respawn is incoming can be dangerous especially if some your valued team members don't know when to withdraw. So I will usually ping for dragon and only for towers if I'm 100% that we can take down the tower with ease. Obviously if you have good coordination on your team taking towers can be safe, but we are talking about Solo Q here, right...
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Usually when a team engages 4v5 it's because the four, for whatever fuckwitted reason, didn't know that the fifth was missing. Like, you've got pokers and bruisers dancing around in a tower siege situation, and oh - Rumble went just a little too far out trying to get that E off - Lux catches Rumble at the tip of the snare - Maokai sees an opportunity to set up a favorable teamfight position and snares that shit - but Lux and Maokai, who were throwing their stupid long range seige shit around and looking for initiation opportunities, tunnel visioned and didn't notice that Vayne had backed off to do wraiths which were a whole five seconds away from the team battle and everything goes to shit from there because you were missing your AD carry for five seconds of a team battle.
Obviously it's more inexcusable the farther away you are, but this is loosely how it works.
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Is qtpie actually going to get kicked for retarded behaviour in 1 tourney?
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No official word from Dig yet
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On March 18 2012 21:34 JackDino wrote:
Is qtpie actually going to get kicked for retarded behaviour in 1 tourney?
What kind of retarded behavior?
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On March 18 2012 21:45 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2012 21:34 JackDino wrote:
Is qtpie actually going to get kicked for retarded behaviour in 1 tourney? What kind of retarded behavior?
Apparently he was trolling, dcing, leaving, coming back and feeding and shit.
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly speaking, people often underestimate how much those late game creep waves are worth.
If the enemy is pushing a tower, but there's a big wave on a different tower, it might be better to give up the tower you're currently defending--if the creep wave is large enough, it'll push down a tower in a different lane anyway, while wasting a lot of the farm in that lane. So farming that lane and giving up one tower to save another might actually be worth more gold than the kills you would have gotten fighting over the tower they're pushing.
If the enemy is getting Dragon, consider that creeps are going to be worth on average like 30 gold lategame. If you've got your carry farming a big wave of like 15-20 creeps, plus everyone else farming the jungle/less pushed lanes while the enemy team is doing Dragon, your team as a whole gets MORE gold than theirs does from doing Dragon because Dragon's gold value doesn't scale.
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I don't like most of the math in this thread. It isn't accurate at all and doesn't consider any hidden variables. Just ignore it -_-
How does everyone like the incoming jax change? I think he needs his ult to do damage, and they're trying to make jax into a sustained Dpser rather than a bursty one. Honestly, I ran some numbers... his overall burst is pretty low already (factoring 2Ws, 2ult procs, and a max damage E (they ninja put a cap on that D:<) )... and it's completely single target (except for a long cd low range AoE stun). Currently I like that he can make use of triforce, gunblade, and deathfire... maybe the actives on dfg and gunblade will provide him enough burst? Who knows.
Imo it's very possible that the change will only overall nerf him even more.
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i think i allready fell in love with lulu before actually playing her 
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EPT
