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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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On March 10 2012 12:29 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:35 Erasme wrote:
Yorick, king of dive in.
Btw I need someone to test/confirm/deny something. So I ult a galio (i'm yorick) he died and ress as a zombi but then zilean ult him and he doesnt die anymore at the end of the summoning oO ....?!! As in, you Zilean ult the zombie clone and then the hero comes back to life and no kill is registered at all? And the hero is fully revived? If this is what's happening and you can confirm, it seems like a bug as it's not working as intended. Do tell me and I'll pass it onto QA to get it fixed.
I just attempted to verify this with a friend, but we were not able to reproduce it.
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On March 10 2012 13:01 gtrsrs wrote:
starting to think supports shouldnt buy aura items only and shouldn't ge too many gp10
Seems silly to put an aura item on your lowest leveled squishiest champ. Seems even sillier when you see that they have some Iof the most useful skills in the game and more skillspam is better than some passive gold generation or aura ap or wards
Starting to go aegis roa abyssal on Janna. Sometimes Starks too if 3 autoattackers. Those tornados hurt, healnado is too good, hp and mana too good, additional tankiness means more nados and more imba shields
k have fun getting enough gold for roa. oh and charging it too.....
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Skipping gp10 is, unfortunately, almost impossible for supports. I do get where you're coming from, but I just find it's way too inflexible to try and itemize without gp10s in support especilly since you'd be passing on the ward duty to teammates.
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Get gold from runes masteries and assists. Spending gold to make items that make gold is just counterproductive
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fun thing I've been trying out with aggressive melee supports like alistar and leona - open boots, pick up hog and then get a wriggles as your second gp10 item instead of philo.
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On March 10 2012 13:43 gtrsrs wrote:
Get gold from runes masteries and assists. Spending gold to make items that make gold is just counterproductive
Gold items are a great investment, they pay for themselves after like 20min and they still offer great useful stats.
Other lanes don't get them because they HAVE to overcome their opponent in lane or fall behind, they need to push their advantage when they can. As a support your only job is to spam your heal/shield/stun, make plays with your ad carry and ward. Gold items cover warding + some extra, and the skills only need experience to be effective.
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On March 10 2012 13:46 UniversalSnip wrote:
fun thing I've been trying out with aggressive melee supports like alistar and leona - open boots, pick up hog and then get a wriggles as your second gp10 item instead of philo.
I like that as a "Stay ahead" mechanism for additional dragon control and tankiness with the two tanky supports. That 4gp10 in wards is nice.
If only you'd be using the lifesteal more, I think a lot more supports would run that, but it is techically twice the cost of a standard gp5.
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On March 10 2012 13:43 gtrsrs wrote:
Get gold from runes masteries and assists. Spending gold to make items that make gold is just counterproductive
Those items don't just generate gold though, they give you regen and health which support champions do generally need, and you'd be spending a portion of the cost of any other item on the same stats. A HoG gives you 250 health, you're paying for 450 if you buy an RoA, and when you take out the value of that stat from the cost of a HoG it only takes 11 minutes to pay for itself.
I think the best solution, especially in solo queue where you really do need to be able to have an influence on the game beyond laning well and dropping wards, is to buy your two GP10s and boots and then if you're doing well and have a bunch of assists or a couple of kills, buy something like an abyssal afterwards, or a CDR/AP item or whatever.
Actually I've always thought Morello's would be a nice item on something like Sona.
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United States47024 Posts
We've had this discussion for ages--gold generation from gp10 items is hugely overrated.
It takes 10 minutes for a HoG to pay for the stats you're actually getting on HoG. Doran's + 5 immediate wards, rather than not even generating "free" wards until 12-13 minutes from now is a much more reasonable tradeoff than people give it credit for, particularly since the 5 free wards now generate an advantage that could be worth a lot more in 10 minutes, and wards are more useful early on in the game before Oracle's diminish their value.
Also, I've said for a while that the responsibility of buying aura items should be spread out across the team. Forcing the support to get them is pointless because a lot of them are WAY more gamebreaking early on in the game. Aegis at 15-20 minutes is strong and has a noticeable influence on fights. Aegis at 40 minutes when a support finally has enough gold for it? Nobody cares.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
LOSING MY SOUL TO STREET FIGHTER AGAIN
and cheating on it with a tekken character
ill be back to LoL in a few days :D
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On March 10 2012 13:59 TheYango wrote:
We've had this discussion for ages--gold generation from gp10 items is hugely overrated.
It takes 10 minutes for a HoG to pay for the stats you're actually getting on HoG. Doran's + 5 immediate wards, rather than not even generating "free" wards until 12-13 minutes from now is a much more reasonable tradeoff than people give it credit for, particularly since the 5 free wards now generate an advantage that could be worth a lot more in 10 minutes, and wards are more useful early on in the game before Oracle's diminish their value.
Also, I've said for a while that the responsibility of buying aura items should be spread out across the team. Forcing the support to get them is pointless because a lot of them are WAY more gamebreaking early on in the game. Aegis at 15-20 minutes is strong and has a noticeable influence on fights. Aegis at 40 minutes when a support finally has enough gold for it? Nobody cares.
Everything here makes sense to me.
Everyone but the AD carry should shoulder some Aura items. Pro teams already do build lots of Aura items.
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On March 10 2012 14:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
LOSING MY SOUL TO STREET FIGHTER AGAIN
and cheating on it with a tekken character
ill be back to LoL in a few days :D
See you at EVO
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So I just got an email from Riot telling me that since I'm so awesome I get 50 cases a day in Tribunal now.
I'll be loving the IP and all, though 50 cases is quite a lot to do, especially since I try to actually read shit instead of half-assing it.
Is everyone going to get the 50 or is it only for people who do lots of Tribunal/vote 'right?'
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Spread aura items to WHO though.
Mid already gets wota.
Jungle cant get aegis because they need to spend money building towards the few items they actually can afford to get so that they actually scale into late game. Aegis just doesnt fit into that. Id rather have wits if I needed mr, Wriggles if I need armor, or Phage or HoG if I need health.
Top could get aegis, but they arent ever in any fights anyway, so why bother.
Whats left for auras? Shurelias, but bot actually gets that cuz it doesnt suck. Randuins gets grabbed by jungle/top. Zekes and Locket both are underwhelming.
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Only you. Pls don't ban me. =p
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Where's your gold income on supports if you don't get gp/5 items. Don't tell me you're going to steal lane or jungle cs. You can have everybody else buy the wards and shit like that, but then your teammates fall behind on itemization. If you're ahead, then you don't even need gp/5 because you can get gold from stuff like global objectives and kills/assists as a support. But if you're lane opponent is not stupid enough to die, then they can get a stronger income than you by getting gp/5, while you're struggling to get your items and wards at the same time. If you have your carry buy the wards, and you're behind, then you're behind even more. If you're ahead, it doesn't even matter. If you're in an even farm scenario, you're going to be behind in terms of itemization which makes or breaks a lane.
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well to be fair i'm mostly talking about solo queue here, because there are a lot more deaths and potential deaths in solo queue
but yango nailed it on the head
On March 10 2012 13:59 TheYango wrote:
We've had this discussion for ages--gold generation from gp10 items is hugely overrated.
It takes 10 minutes for a HoG to pay for the stats you're actually getting on HoG. Doran's + 5 immediate wards, rather than not even generating "free" wards until 12-13 minutes from now is a much more reasonable tradeoff than people give it credit for, particularly since the 5 free wards now generate an advantage that could be worth a lot more in 10 minutes, and wards are more useful early on in the game before Oracle's diminish their value.
Also, I've said for a while that the responsibility of buying aura items should be spread out across the team. Forcing the support to get them is pointless because a lot of them are WAY more gamebreaking early on in the game. Aegis at 15-20 minutes is strong and has a noticeable influence on fights. Aegis at 40 minutes when a support finally has enough gold for it? Nobody cares.
rush aegis on support or don't get it
top gets starks, mid gets wota, jungle gets shurelia from their philo, support builds to survive actively rather than passively
and in arranged play, supports should be getting like 10% of the CS tbh, that will make up for the lower kill amount
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I have a proposal. The more passive the game, the more useful gp5 items become. The more active the game, the less useful gp5 items become, cos then you'd get more assist gold anyway, and you'd need more item advantages now to win the fights.
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On March 10 2012 15:17 pschiu wrote:
I have a proposal. The more passive the game, the more useful gp5 items become. The more active the game, the less useful gp5 items become, cos then you'd get more assist gold anyway, and you'd need more item advantages now to win the fights.
That make s a lot of sense, and would mean that in tournament games GP5 is the correct choice much more often than in soloqueue because those games are more often decided by a low number of kills than soloqueue games. (Also the team will not expect you to place EVERY DAMN WARD.)
Also, I think with the burden of Oracles having partially shifted towards the jungler, the support can afford to build non-GP5 a bit more, and go for ... other stuff. This is a difficult judgement to make, since if the jungler dies and YOU are the one to rebuild the oracle, it could bite you in the ass.
That said, I do favor HoG over 2 dorans, because much of the time you really only care about the CC from support and the 30 AP of dorans is irrelevant. If I were gonna dump ~900 gold on a semi-early "not a GP5 item" on anyone, for Sona it would be a Chalice, or for any support (Sona included), it would be en route to an aura item - like a Kindlegem or Aegis parts.
I'm liking M5's move towards building HoG but not necessarily Philo - if your healiness/carefulness can cover personal HP regen and runes/mastery cover mana usage, philo isn't really worthwhile, even though it's cost efficient for what it does.
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EPT
