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The Champions Feedback ThreadGeneral Warning: Do not caster bash in this thread. If there's something specific you don't like about OGN's casting, use the Feedback thread above for constructive criticism. Otherwise, don't comment about it. ~ Neo, 30.03.12, 20:25 KST |
On April 13 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 22:51 nokz88 wrote:On April 13 2012 22:49 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:48 Beyonder wrote:
What is blind mode ? You know how every tournament except for this one uses bans and alternating picks where you can see what is picked? This is normal game. IE everyone picks what they want to play. You can have of the same champs in the game. In other words, completely and utterly retarded. why retarded? explain Because not only do you let every op champion under the sun make it through to the game, but you lose like 75% of the strategy of lol: the bans and picks. Taking away what the enemy is good at, forcing them to play what you want them to play, ect. Plus, as anyone who plays a lot knows, mirror matchups are BEYOND stupid. And to cap it off, OGN is the ONLY tourney in the world that does this. Which makes it worse.
If both teams can pick said OP champions, are they really OP?
I still don't get the outrage. You can't ban, but neither can the other team. It's your best against their best. What's the problem with that?
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On April 13 2012 22:57 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:51 nokz88 wrote:On April 13 2012 22:49 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:48 Beyonder wrote:
What is blind mode ? You know how every tournament except for this one uses bans and alternating picks where you can see what is picked? This is normal game. IE everyone picks what they want to play. You can have of the same champs in the game. In other words, completely and utterly retarded. why retarded? explain Because not only do you let every op champion under the sun make it through to the game, but you lose like 75% of the strategy of lol: the bans and picks. Taking away what the enemy is good at, forcing them to play what you want them to play, ect. Plus, as anyone who plays a lot knows, mirror matchups are BEYOND stupid. And to cap it off, OGN is the ONLY tourney in the world that does this. Which makes it worse. If both teams can pick said OP champions, are they really OP? I still don't get the outrage. You can't ban, but neither can the other team. It's your best against their best. What's the problem with that?
Because mirrors are not fun to play, and even less fun to watch. Plus you are removing 50%+ of the strategy of the game.
Its essentially the same as Pks in soccer: you are deciding a game on something that only has the semblance of the original game. And its 200% less interesting than penalties.
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On April 13 2012 22:55 Two_DoWn wrote:
I am aware they were through already, but OGN cant be happy that both times it was so close.
Ah yeah sounded like you though CLG was out. my bad 
On April 13 2012 22:55 nafta wrote:
How is it not stupid.It's all luck.All lanes except bot(it can too but not really all that hard) can be countered really easily and you don't even get to prepare specific runes/masteries because you don't even know what you have to lane against.I don't know about you but picks/bans are interesting to watch and there is a lot of thinking involved.Just removing it randomly seems very bad in my eyes.
Yes it takes away from the game but not having drafing but how can you complain about all lanes being easily countered when you dont know what you need to counter.
Mid has a few champs that do well vs most. Top is going to be a total unknown and doesnt really have champions that will beat every possible oppostion so you have to play it all a little more safe.
Yes OGN is the only ones to do this and I dont totaly agree with it either but i can understand why its done.
Advantage.
first pick/first ban can be a huge advantage and the only way to make that equal for both teams in the deciding game is to make it blind pick. If there was a way to random the side a team starts on im sure OGN would be doing that aswell.
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On April 13 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 22:51 nokz88 wrote:On April 13 2012 22:49 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:48 Beyonder wrote:
What is blind mode ? You know how every tournament except for this one uses bans and alternating picks where you can see what is picked? This is normal game. IE everyone picks what they want to play. You can have of the same champs in the game. In other words, completely and utterly retarded. why retarded? explain Because not only do you let every op champion under the sun make it through to the game, but you lose like 75% of the strategy of lol: the bans and picks. Taking away what the enemy is good at, forcing them to play what you want them to play, ect. Plus, as anyone who plays a lot knows, mirror matchups are BEYOND stupid.And to cap it off, OGN is the ONLY tourney in the world that does this. Which makes it worse.
mirror matchups are stupid? how so?
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On April 13 2012 22:57 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 22:53 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:51 nokz88 wrote:On April 13 2012 22:49 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 13 2012 22:48 Beyonder wrote:
What is blind mode ? You know how every tournament except for this one uses bans and alternating picks where you can see what is picked? This is normal game. IE everyone picks what they want to play. You can have of the same champs in the game. In other words, completely and utterly retarded. why retarded? explain Because not only do you let every op champion under the sun make it through to the game, but you lose like 75% of the strategy of lol: the bans and picks. Taking away what the enemy is good at, forcing them to play what you want them to play, ect. Plus, as anyone who plays a lot knows, mirror matchups are BEYOND stupid. And to cap it off, OGN is the ONLY tourney in the world that does this. Which makes it worse. If both teams can pick said OP champions, are they really OP? I still don't get the outrage. You can't ban, but neither can the other team. It's your best against their best. What's the problem with that?
Janna vs Janna botlane. Both teams with a disengage. Maybe Shen vs Shen in toplane. Both teams with that ridiculous global ulti. Add Anivia vs Anivia into the mix and you have pure chaos.
Its not unfair to neither team, but it does not belong into a professional tournament. Chaos like that is for Normal-Games.
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I wonder if there will be any prepared blind-countering in those blind picks. Something like "Ryze is extremely popular mid, so let's choose someone who beats him." Even if they are not sure Ryze will be picked.
But blind pick is quite interesting. After 2 games and the preparation done for the matches, I expect the teams to know a little bit about their opponent's playstyle, so maybe they can pick accordly?
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Blind picks will be very interesting. I wonder how the games will pan out.
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Yeah i think so too, dont get why some people are so upset about that.
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Let me see if I understand this, correct me if I'm wrong:
1. There are more or less 100 champions in LoL
2. If teams are allowed to pick any champion they want, the probability of a mirror is great, and that's part of what the outrage is about
can I infer from these that the pool of competitive level Champions is very low?
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On April 13 2012 23:11 nokz88 wrote:
Let me see if I understand this, correct me if I'm wrong:
1. There are more or less 100 champions in LoL
2. If teams are allowed to pick any champion they want, the probability of a mirror is great, and that's part of what the outrage is about
can I infer from these that the pool of competitive level Champions is very low?
The pool of champions that can be played competitively isn't that shallow. It's just that a lot of picking comes down to what their lane matchups may be. For instance, Singed can still be a compeitive pick, but if you run him into a Riven you're just going to be bullied all day in lane. In a draft mode scenario, you can pick him when you ban out his counters, or you can tell that the other team may not want to pick his counters. But in a blind pick scenario, are you willing to run the risk of them having picked blindly someone that just shuts you down before the game has even started?
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On April 13 2012 23:11 nokz88 wrote:
Let me see if I understand this, correct me if I'm wrong:
1. There are more or less 100 champions in LoL
2. If teams are allowed to pick any champion they want, the probability of a mirror is great, and that's part of what the outrage is about
can I infer from these that the pool of competitive level Champions is very low?
The pool of competitive champions is actually pretty large. The problem gets to be that if you dont have the option to force bans out, you are going to see people go for the ones that are just BETTER. There could be 100 viable champions, but if 5 were levels above everyone else, we would see a game with just those 5. Even if normally they got banned out and the competitive scene was fine, no bans would fuck up that game.
But the bigger problem, as stated above, is that you are just going to have to go ahead and pick 5 champs that are not easily counterd. And the pool of champs who are not easily countered IS very small.
And mirrors are stupid because the competitve game is ballanced around playing against different champions. No one has practice against mirrors. It isnt fun to play agianst the same champ because they have the same power curve, desires, ect. Everything you are going to try to do the enemy is going to try to do as well. Its kind of hard to describe if you dont have experience playing mirrors, but it just isnt fun.
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On April 13 2012 23:15 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:11 nokz88 wrote:
Let me see if I understand this, correct me if I'm wrong:
1. There are more or less 100 champions in LoL
2. If teams are allowed to pick any champion they want, the probability of a mirror is great, and that's part of what the outrage is about
can I infer from these that the pool of competitive level Champions is very low? The pool of champions that can be played competitively isn't that shallow. It's just that a lot of picking comes down to what their lane matchups may be. For instance, Singed can still be a compeitive pick, but if you run him into a Riven you're just going to be bullied all day in lane. In a draft mode scenario, you can pick him when you ban out his counters, or you can tell that the other team may not want to pick his counters. But in a blind pick scenario, are you willing to run the risk of them having picked blindly someone that just shuts you down before the game has even started?
Exactly. Some Champions have no or very few counters. So the chances for mirror matchups is higher than a 100 champion-pool would suggest.
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On April 13 2012 23:15 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:11 nokz88 wrote:
Let me see if I understand this, correct me if I'm wrong:
1. There are more or less 100 champions in LoL
2. If teams are allowed to pick any champion they want, the probability of a mirror is great, and that's part of what the outrage is about
can I infer from these that the pool of competitive level Champions is very low? The pool of champions that can be played competitively isn't that shallow. It's just that a lot of picking comes down to what their lane matchups may be. For instance, Singed can still be a compeitive pick, but if you run him into a Riven you're just going to be bullied all day in lane. In a draft mode scenario, you can pick him when you ban out his counters, or you can tell that the other team may not want to pick his counters. But in a blind pick scenario, are you willing to run the risk of them having picked blindly someone that just shuts you down before the game has even started?
Oh, so you got to pick a competitive, non-easily couterable all around champion, I get it.
Looking this way, the comparison someone made a few posts ago to playing SC2 without scouting makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
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Woah. First I've heard of the 3rd set blind pick.
I guess we'll finally see some Shens I guess......
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Will be interesting to see how these blind picks play out seeing as nobody really uses this system. Are they gonna go for the obvious picks, or counter pick because they expect the other team to do that etc.
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On April 13 2012 23:28 Gnabgib wrote:
Woah. First I've heard of the 3rd set blind pick.
I guess we'll finally see some Shens I guess......
Ashe/janna/udyr/shen+anivia or ahri or something :DD
But more likely they pick a bit more specialized comps that can't be anticipated and countered.
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Mindgames
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On April 14 2012 02:33 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2012 23:28 Gnabgib wrote:
Woah. First I've heard of the 3rd set blind pick.
I guess we'll finally see some Shens I guess...... Ashe/janna/udyr/shen+anivia or ahri or something :DD But more likely they pick a bit more specialized comps that can't be anticipated and countered.
Double support + kog vs 3 global team.
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On April 14 2012 02:47 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 02:33 Slayer91 wrote:On April 13 2012 23:28 Gnabgib wrote:
Woah. First I've heard of the 3rd set blind pick.
I guess we'll finally see some Shens I guess...... Ashe/janna/udyr/shen+anivia or ahri or something :DD But more likely they pick a bit more specialized comps that can't be anticipated and countered. Double support + kog vs 3 global team.
CLG runs uber poke comp or something.
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mindgames. I like to play them.
I know something you guys dont.
and when it comes to blind picks it is kinda meh. I dont agree nor disagree with it. but most of the people I have talked to find it funny to try and esport RNG. havent asked loco. note to self ask Loco.
good night argentina
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EPT
