|
Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 16 2012 10:06 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:04 barbsq wrote:On February 16 2012 09:46 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 16 2012 09:42 Eppa! wrote:On February 16 2012 09:29 TheYango wrote:On February 16 2012 08:18 Navi wrote:
every1 in this game is viable
every kit is unique and has strong points and weak points - its just figuring when and how to use the strengths and to minimize the weaknesses that escapes people for some of the "weaker" champions escapes many This. Ultimately, what dictates what people feel is strong is what happens to be popular at the moment. Champions that are strong with or against the prevailing strategy tend to be viewed as strong, and those that do not interact well with the prevailing strategies tend to be viewed as weak. As I've said ages ago, part of this is simply because the vast majority of the LoL population (really anyone who's outside the top teams who scrim against one another) simply does not have proper practice playing the draft. People copy how the "popular" teams are picked without thoroughly understanding the nuances of how EVERY champion fits into the draft. In solo queue people just pick what appears strong without actually understanding WHY those champions currently appear or what situations make them strong (often oblivious to unsuitable situations for those champions). Strictly speaking, what people shouldn't be trying to do is "predict what the next FotM" is going to be at the champion level, but seeking to better understand the champion-champion interactions as a whole--to better understand overall what champions work well together, what team-comps fit what champions, how different team-comps perform against one another, etc. How to pick with/against FotMs simply follows naturally from that information. I disagree, there are stronger and weaker champions, some are just terrible no matter how you put them out unless its cheesy picks. Eve, Kat, Twitch are all really weak when opponents play well. Champions are like spectrums of power where they are useful and not, but some are better when at perfect conditions and better than opposing champ and worst possible position at the same time. Something like this x axel is power. From worst possible to best possible in team comp vs team comp. A team that theoretically was shit for graves and super duper awesom for twitch, twitch would be the better champ. ...(Worst)-----------------------Twitch---------------------(Max potential) ................................................... ----------------------------------Graves----------------------------- . .......................................----------------------------------Ashe--------------------------- The only champion in the game that is unviable is Eve, and it is only because her base stats are such shit. Twitch max potential is actually equal to or HIGHER (if you believe Dlift) than any other ad carry because of his true damage. Seriously, fed twitch is a scary thing. twitch has the highest dmg potential of any ad carry because he hits multiple targets, not cause of true damage Yar, that be true as well. Its just Dlift was specifically referencing his true damage at the time, so maybe he was arguing that single target he is the best as well or something. I dun remember.
I'd be seriously surprised if twitch had more single target dps than vayne. More damage overall, of course.
|
On February 16 2012 09:51 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 09:47 TheYango wrote:On February 16 2012 09:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, understanding the "meta" and then extrapolating that to finding champs that are strong in those interactions is one way to find FOTM, but I definitely think champion->"meta" works just as well. In the process you learn things about interactions and how gameplay works. It doesnt HAVE to be one way or the other.
In fact, I think the nature of solo q and tournament play pushes in the champ->how they fit into teamcomps direction far harder than how can we find champs to fit the way we want to play. Tourney players find champs they are good at and feel strong with, then try to work them into teams and play develops from there.
Shyvana is a perfect example. I doubt very much M5 spent a bunch of time theorycrafting jungles that would let them invade. I am willing to bet Diamondz/whoever their top lane is liked playing shyvana, had success with her, then started to pick her in scrims. From there the "look how easily we can control the map and buffs" gameplay developed.
The 2 champs I think have potential to be FOTM are perfect examples of this dichotomy as well.
I think Annie has the potential to be very strong in the current "meta" because of her kit and what you want a mid to do.
Talon, on the other hand, I feel is a strong character that can be selected then worked into strategies.
But to say people SHOULDNT be doing one thing when that one thing is pretty much HOW top players come up with this shit is just wrong. I don't mean to say that top players should stop doing what they're doing. They have the scrimming environment to properly practice and play out things in the draft. They can approach things from an experimental methodology because they have the proper environment to actually experiment with how things play out against other teams. What I'm saying is that the other 99% of the community saying "X is going to be the next FotM" is essentially wasting their time. The theoretical approach is the only sensible approach for 99% of the player-base because without proper experimentation available, saying "X is going to be FotM" is essentially plain guess-work. It aint guesswork when I'm right 100% of the time (Shyv, Kennen, Morg). But seriously, you should NOT limit this to top players only. Provided my understanding of your use of 99% of players is correct in that you are saying that only tourney players can champcraft and not that the ACTUAL 99% of players (which goes down to like 1600) I think you limit yourself a LOT. I didnt need to have a scrim schedule with TSM and CLG to figure out that Shyv was stupidly strong. Same with Yorick or Kennen. After you clear a certain threshold, a strong champ is a strong champ. And my understanding of the game is good enough to be able to actually think rationally about whether the champ I find strong has potential to be FOTM. Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 09:50 Eppa! wrote:
I am not saying that x is unviable i am saying some champs are better pretty much all the time. As for twitch I have not played him in forever. Predicting fotms is pointless, its like predicting fotm builds in SC2. No, that isnt what you are saying. What you ARE saying is that some champs are easier to fit into a wider variety of teamcomps. If you go by your definition, Kog'maw at his peak was a shitty champion cuz the only comp you could run was protect the kog. Yet he was the single strongest ad carry in the game for a decent period. And predicting FOTM isnt pointless because it is a very good exercise in extrapolating your own experiences and knowledge to the general public. For someone like Yiruru, Smash, Teut, hell, even myself, it isnt really all that hard. We play, and UNDERSTAND the game at a level where we can draw valid conclusions about a champion's power level. Plus its fun.
Thats not what I am saying at all, KogMaw when he was the carry to be had an insanely high "max power". The length of the line is not fixed. I am saying that some champs are better in most cases and some are just plain better with a team that fits. It was extremely simplified and there are a ton of factors.
The rest is arguable and opinions are opinions.
|
On February 16 2012 09:59 Shiv. wrote:
TL;DR:
Communication is great, finals are over, I need a team. Huehue.
You'll eventually start facing other arranged teams. Some that are better than yours. It is amazing though how much of an advantage arranged 5s are on voip. Like one time we vsed and enemy shaco jungler, and because everyone knew to buy wards, and not to walk into the stupid deathbrush, that shaco did not get one successful gank.
On February 16 2012 10:10 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Also, Twitch being my main, his true damage is a great bonus and an enormous benefit to him at all levels (Especially level 1) his true damage scales with levels and actually gets weaker if you're hitting the same target more than 6 times at greater than 1.0 attack speed. Corki's true damage scales with his AD/crits.
His ultimate being able to hit all 5 members of an opposing team for 7x300-900 damage? That is why he is viable, even if that situation is quite unlikely.
After great experimentation, if skill levels are equal, he is not viable against a support/poke lane. Which is the current meta. Try him top lane against a Xin, Cho'Gath, even Renekton or Riven. Maybe even GP now that his mana is a bit more costly.
Have you tried jungling twitch? It's not too hard to jungle as twitch. I've accidentally not picked smite and succeeded with it by alternating wolves and wraiths for a while. His main weakness as a jungler is that if the enemy team buys a pink ward and your allies don't tell you he can be walking into a trap (never really had that happen before but always afraid of it) and his base life is really low so AP mids can often straight up kill him if he's underleveled from ganking too much or taken some damage recently.
|
As somebody mentioned earlier, the strength of champs has more to do with what team comps they work with, rather than if they're actually good/bad. Your team always needs some tankiness and some cc. If a characters doesn't bring either of those, that mean the rest of your team has to fill that gap, which means further limiting your champ selection.
Let's say your mid picks somebody w/ no cc and you're also running a Soraka in bot lane w/ Sivir. Your team has no real cc after 3 picks, leaving the remaining ones to fill the requirements. It doesn't mean your team comp wont work, but it shows the limitations your champ has put on your own allies' selections.
|
On February 16 2012 10:11 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 09:51 Two_DoWn wrote:On February 16 2012 09:47 TheYango wrote:On February 16 2012 09:39 Two_DoWn wrote:
Well, understanding the "meta" and then extrapolating that to finding champs that are strong in those interactions is one way to find FOTM, but I definitely think champion->"meta" works just as well. In the process you learn things about interactions and how gameplay works. It doesnt HAVE to be one way or the other.
In fact, I think the nature of solo q and tournament play pushes in the champ->how they fit into teamcomps direction far harder than how can we find champs to fit the way we want to play. Tourney players find champs they are good at and feel strong with, then try to work them into teams and play develops from there.
Shyvana is a perfect example. I doubt very much M5 spent a bunch of time theorycrafting jungles that would let them invade. I am willing to bet Diamondz/whoever their top lane is liked playing shyvana, had success with her, then started to pick her in scrims. From there the "look how easily we can control the map and buffs" gameplay developed.
The 2 champs I think have potential to be FOTM are perfect examples of this dichotomy as well.
I think Annie has the potential to be very strong in the current "meta" because of her kit and what you want a mid to do.
Talon, on the other hand, I feel is a strong character that can be selected then worked into strategies.
But to say people SHOULDNT be doing one thing when that one thing is pretty much HOW top players come up with this shit is just wrong. I don't mean to say that top players should stop doing what they're doing. They have the scrimming environment to properly practice and play out things in the draft. They can approach things from an experimental methodology because they have the proper environment to actually experiment with how things play out against other teams. What I'm saying is that the other 99% of the community saying "X is going to be the next FotM" is essentially wasting their time. The theoretical approach is the only sensible approach for 99% of the player-base because without proper experimentation available, saying "X is going to be FotM" is essentially plain guess-work. It aint guesswork when I'm right 100% of the time (Shyv, Kennen, Morg). But seriously, you should NOT limit this to top players only. Provided my understanding of your use of 99% of players is correct in that you are saying that only tourney players can champcraft and not that the ACTUAL 99% of players (which goes down to like 1600) I think you limit yourself a LOT. I didnt need to have a scrim schedule with TSM and CLG to figure out that Shyv was stupidly strong. Same with Yorick or Kennen. After you clear a certain threshold, a strong champ is a strong champ. And my understanding of the game is good enough to be able to actually think rationally about whether the champ I find strong has potential to be FOTM. On February 16 2012 09:50 Eppa! wrote:
I am not saying that x is unviable i am saying some champs are better pretty much all the time. As for twitch I have not played him in forever. Predicting fotms is pointless, its like predicting fotm builds in SC2. No, that isnt what you are saying. What you ARE saying is that some champs are easier to fit into a wider variety of teamcomps. If you go by your definition, Kog'maw at his peak was a shitty champion cuz the only comp you could run was protect the kog. Yet he was the single strongest ad carry in the game for a decent period. And predicting FOTM isnt pointless because it is a very good exercise in extrapolating your own experiences and knowledge to the general public. For someone like Yiruru, Smash, Teut, hell, even myself, it isnt really all that hard. We play, and UNDERSTAND the game at a level where we can draw valid conclusions about a champion's power level. Plus its fun. Thats not what I am saying at all, KogMaw when he was the carry to be had an insanely high "max power". The length of the line is not fixed. I am saying that some champs are better in most cases and some are just plain better with a team that fits. It was extremely simplified and there are a ton of factors. The rest is arguable and opinions are opinions.
Outside of a VERY few champions, there really arent any champs that are straight up better than others. Like the only one I can think of is Ez being a half step behind the rest of the ad carries, but even that is debatable by many people (I personally have a low opinion of Ez).
But for most champs? Outside of outliers like Eve and broken op champs you cant definitively say 1 champ is better than another in that role.
|
United States47024 Posts
On February 16 2012 10:10 turdburgler wrote:
highest damage potential against retards. he is a squishy with the lowest ranged ad range in the game, he is most vulnerable to just being turned on with 0 escapes. the worst response to 'twitch out of fucking nowhere' is to run, the best is to just turn around and kill him
Good thing he has a steroid that gives him the highest autoattack range in the game.
Kog'maw's W only gives him 710 AA range. Tristana's passive gives her 703. Spray and Pray gives you 800+.
|
The matchup system for 5v5's can be weird. Playing with some friends from TF2, one a level 14, one a level 30 with 74 pvp wins, matched us up against a 1925 rated player with a top rating over 2k. I'm not certain it checks for anything aside from "arranged 5? Check".
|
On February 16 2012 08:53 overt wrote:
Annie is one of my favorite champions. Her laning phase is still really strong and her gank potential is phenomenal. No idea why people stopped playing her. I guess in tournaments or high level organized play her strengths are diminished a bit but in solo queue she's still crazy strong and always will be unless they nerf her heavily.
She basically has no escape or reliable disable which is why people stopped playing her. Her burst is still ridiculous, though, and her initiation isn't that bad either. I still enjoy playing her.
|
United States37500 Posts
Epik v Choppa scrim starting soon.
|
On February 16 2012 10:20 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 08:53 overt wrote:
Annie is one of my favorite champions. Her laning phase is still really strong and her gank potential is phenomenal. No idea why people stopped playing her. I guess in tournaments or high level organized play her strengths are diminished a bit but in solo queue she's still crazy strong and always will be unless they nerf her heavily. She basically has no escape or reliable disable which is why people stopped playing her. Her burst is still ridiculous, though, and her initiation isn't that bad either. I still enjoy playing her.
Uhhhhhhhhh, she has a reliable stun.
The reason she fell out of favor was the influx of mages who shat on her. Pre nerf brand, cass, kass, ect.
|
|
|
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult.
|
On February 16 2012 10:27 Fuzzmosis wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult.
if you have some1 like galio get a good initiate, all you need is 5 hits
twitch's issue is his shit laning phase and insanely low base stats, not any kind of late game problems. He's also really hard to play because you have to have really really good timing with him, and there's really no room for error, but in terms of raw damage output in the most ideal circumstance, he can't be beat IMO. That's not terribly useful for most games/people/composition, but still interesting (to me anyways)
|
On February 16 2012 10:27 Fuzzmosis wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult.
Having a duo lane means you have no jungler. edit: nvm
Just get some armor yellows and try it out. I only have two rune pages too. Twitch's laning abilities are far from acceptable.
|
since people like to bag on evelynn, lets take her as an example
she has a better stealth gank in terms of not knowing when she is coming / passing wards than shaco (no orange poof), while having a decent slow and armor/mr redux on her hit after stealth. this is nowhere near as strong as the stun she used to have, but it still makes for strong ganks and forces the enemy to play passive
if jungling, she is relatively weak in a standing 1v1 fight against a strong counterjungler (mundo, lee, shyvana)
this can be made up for with a strong midlaner who has the ability to push at early levels if needed to maintain jungle control for evelynn (i.e. the enemy laner cannot follow without being at an exp disadvantage / risk losing further creeps and/or is weaker in early level 2v2s), which would make invading very risky versus her
a 320 base damage nuke with 1.0 AP scaling that reduces 24 armor and MR at max rank is not too weak midgame - she is not as useless as some people would have others believe. if she is able to utilize her ultimate's healing 2 or more times in a teamfight, she gets a large amount of free healing, which can be reliably used in tandem with ganks or single-target hard focusing
lategame she does not provide the same amount of CC or mixture of pure damage and tankiness that other popular junglers have - but she has great map presence in that she can punish splitpushing and can clear wards with relative safety if any of the opponent's team is on the map.
she may not be a competitive pick in tournaments, but she is certainly viable in solo queue in the hands of a knowledgable player and she may even have her place in the correct team comp.
sure, some picks are stronger than others. but no pick is completely unviable - they all have niche periods of strength that many others do not. for example, evelynn's gank at levels 2 and 3 is often crippling to a laner who is not forfeitting cs for fear of her - twitch and shaco are the only other two who can present similar threat due to their stealth, and evelynn is able to cover more distance than twitch roaming mid-lategame due to her ultimate's movespeed
if they change her passive to something useful and up some base numbers on her, i can see her being legitimately strong - but to say that she is totally unviable is either exaggeration or lack of understanding of the game
|
On February 16 2012 10:41 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:27 Fuzzmosis wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult. Having a duo lane means you have no jungler. For a while it may seem like junglers aren't important but eventually you'll notice your enemy team having 20% more cs than yours for no reason, and fiddlestickses taking dragon at level 5 solo or stuff that's hard to do without a jungler. Just get some armor yellows and try it out. I only have two rune pages too. Twitch's laning abilities are far from acceptable.
i dont think he said anything about no jungler. I think it was more along the lines of playing bot with a farming, safe support (mybe something like karma, zilean, heimer, something along those lines) and then after a few levels start roaming.
|
On February 16 2012 10:45 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:41 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 16 2012 10:27 Fuzzmosis wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult. Having a duo lane means you have no jungler. For a while it may seem like junglers aren't important but eventually you'll notice your enemy team having 20% more cs than yours for no reason, and fiddlestickses taking dragon at level 5 solo or stuff that's hard to do without a jungler. Just get some armor yellows and try it out. I only have two rune pages too. Twitch's laning abilities are far from acceptable. i dont think he said anything about no jungler. I think it was more along the lines of playing bot with a farming, safe support (mybe something like karma, zilean, heimer, something along those lines) and then after a few levels start roaming.
He says he plays top and has a non support lane with him so he can leave his ally and go threaten a gank at mid.
|
On February 16 2012 10:45 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:41 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 16 2012 10:27 Fuzzmosis wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of Jungle Twitch. Partly because I've built my planning on lane Twitch and only have 2 rune pages, so I've never set up a good rune page for it. So my clear speed is very slow.
The other part is, the success rate. You can cause the same fear if you duo lane with a non traditional support and roam. A good outcome for Jungle Twitch is about the same as a good outcome for Eve: You've completely disrupted 3 lanes and forced maybe 2k gold to be spent on you, hopefully enabling 4.5v5 wins for your team. A great outcome is that with 10 kills, but minimal farm, allowing for 5v5s. A lane Twitch with a great game disrupts, forces gold, and doesn't have minimal farm, allowing for a different jungler.
Also, Yango: Kog Maw's lasts for more hits, does more bonus damage, can't miss, and doesn't slow his auto attack speed. I'm pretty sure they forgot to speed up the projectile on Twitches Ult. I may also be crazy, but the other points are true. On a non ult that doesn't cost 150 mana. Oh, and also doesn't get bonus damage per 50 AP as well as bonus damage from AD like Twitches Ult. Having a duo lane means you have no jungler. For a while it may seem like junglers aren't important but eventually you'll notice your enemy team having 20% more cs than yours for no reason, and fiddlestickses taking dragon at level 5 solo or stuff that's hard to do without a jungler. Just get some armor yellows and try it out. I only have two rune pages too. Twitch's laning abilities are far from acceptable. i dont think he said anything about no jungler. I think it was more along the lines of playing bot with a farming, safe support (mybe something like karma, zilean, heimer, something along those lines) and then after a few levels start roaming.
Non standard Support. I generally play with a Morganna partner when going bot. Less farmed than a mid morganna, but generally once we reach level 6, we win our lane over and over. (Dark binding + morganna ult + Twitch slow = kill)
|
On February 16 2012 10:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:10 turdburgler wrote:
highest damage potential against retards. he is a squishy with the lowest ranged ad range in the game, he is most vulnerable to just being turned on with 0 escapes. the worst response to 'twitch out of fucking nowhere' is to run, the best is to just turn around and kill him Good thing he has a steroid that gives him the highest autoattack range in the game. Kog'maw's W only gives him 710 AA range. Tristana's passive gives her 703. Spray and Pray gives you 800+.
1200 AA range actually
|
On February 16 2012 10:51 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2012 10:19 TheYango wrote:On February 16 2012 10:10 turdburgler wrote:
highest damage potential against retards. he is a squishy with the lowest ranged ad range in the game, he is most vulnerable to just being turned on with 0 escapes. the worst response to 'twitch out of fucking nowhere' is to run, the best is to just turn around and kill him Good thing he has a steroid that gives him the highest autoattack range in the game. Kog'maw's W only gives him 710 AA range. Tristana's passive gives her 703. Spray and Pray gives you 800+. 1200 AA range actually
You outrange towers. Kayle can outrange towers too by hitting something in front of the tower and using her splash.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
