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[Patch 1.0.0.134: Nautilus] General Discussion - Page 41

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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.

Thanks. Happy Gaming.
Fuzzmosis
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada752 Posts
February 16 2012 01:53 GMT
#801
Is it just me, or is Epik trying to troll Choppa?
I'm From Canada, so they think I'm slow, eh?
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 16 2012 01:54 GMT
#802
On February 16 2012 10:42 Navi wrote:
since people like to bag on evelynn, lets take her as an example
she has a better stealth gank in terms of not knowing when she is coming / passing wards than shaco (no orange poof), while having a decent slow and armor/mr redux on her hit after stealth. this is nowhere near as strong as the stun she used to have, but it still makes for strong ganks and forces the enemy to play passive
if jungling, she is relatively weak in a standing 1v1 fight against a strong counterjungler (mundo, lee, shyvana)
this can be made up for with a strong midlaner who has the ability to push at early levels if needed to maintain jungle control for evelynn (i.e. the enemy laner cannot follow without being at an exp disadvantage / risk losing further creeps and/or is weaker in early level 2v2s), which would make invading very risky versus her
a 320 base damage nuke with 1.0 AP scaling that reduces 24 armor and MR at max rank is not too weak midgame - she is not as useless as some people would have others believe. if she is able to utilize her ultimate's healing 2 or more times in a teamfight, she gets a large amount of free healing, which can be reliably used in tandem with ganks or single-target hard focusing

lategame she does not provide the same amount of CC or mixture of pure damage and tankiness that other popular junglers have - but she has great map presence in that she can punish splitpushing and can clear wards with relative safety if any of the opponent's team is on the map.

she may not be a competitive pick in tournaments, but she is certainly viable in solo queue in the hands of a knowledgable player and she may even have her place in the correct team comp.

sure, some picks are stronger than others. but no pick is completely unviable - they all have niche periods of strength that many others do not. for example, evelynn's gank at levels 2 and 3 is often crippling to a laner who is not forfeitting cs for fear of her - twitch and shaco are the only other two who can present similar threat due to their stealth, and evelynn is able to cover more distance than twitch roaming mid-lategame due to her ultimate's movespeed

if they change her passive to something useful and up some base numbers on her, i can see her being legitimately strong - but to say that she is totally unviable is either exaggeration or lack of understanding of the game

We already know eve is fine because she USED to be a very strong and viable jungle.

That being said, ATM she simply isnt viable because her base stats are so low and you cant do anything with her.

But she is the only champion in the game where you can legitimately make a case she should never be picked. Every other champion is viable.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Yttrasil
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden651 Posts
February 16 2012 01:55 GMT
#803
Yes seriously, why don't people ever play Poppy top. It's disgustingly strong at laning phase and lategame, seriously I think I should start abusing her as well. Just sick stronk!!!

Talon as well, don't know why people stopped playing him, he's still great like before and works almost everywhere always.

Then I'd say Olaf, why don't people play him top more? He stomps on so many so hard and is overall really good.

Last Malzahar, what happened with him? He was played so much then people stop, he's still sick good

But mainly, why don't people play Poppy SO GOD DAMN GOOD!!!
Meh
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
February 16 2012 02:01 GMT
#804
I'm curious what everyone thinks of an AoE comp.

I remember watching WCG semis with Poland vs Canada. Poland ran Morg, Kennen, GP, Nunu, and Vayne. Canada just could not handle them, since they just flashed and ult'd, CC'ing Canda to hell while Vayne just killed everyone.

I know Janna will beat AoE comps (you ult when they ult) but it still sounds like a really solid comp.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Ryrk
Profile Joined May 2011
United States82 Posts
February 16 2012 02:03 GMT
#805
On February 16 2012 11:01 Cloud9157 wrote:
I'm curious what everyone thinks of an AoE comp.

I remember watching WCG semis with Poland vs Canada. Poland ran Morg, Kennen, GP, Nunu, and Vayne. Canada just could not handle them, since they just flashed and ult'd, CC'ing Canda to hell while Vayne just killed everyone.

I know Janna will beat AoE comps (you ult when they ult) but it still sounds like a really solid comp.


I think it's too reliant on outplaying the other team. Proper ward control and picks help mitigate a lot of power the AoE comp has to offer, usually involving quick engagements or simply forcing engagements. You need to take control of the game early on and hold onto it, so buying early oracles and forcing early dragons/barons helps a lot.

It's just much more safer to pick some strong picks early and build a team around that.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 16 2012 02:04 GMT
#806
My reaction after watching West play shen in this EG scrim:

LOLOLOLOL GUINSOO U ONE CRAZY MOFO
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-16 02:06:00
February 16 2012 02:05 GMT
#807
On February 16 2012 10:55 Yttrasil wrote:
Yes seriously, why don't people ever play Poppy top. It's disgustingly strong at laning phase and lategame, seriously I think I should start abusing her as well. Just sick stronk!!!

Talon as well, don't know why people stopped playing him, he's still great like before and works almost everywhere always.

Then I'd say Olaf, why don't people play him top more? He stomps on so many so hard and is overall really good.

Last Malzahar, what happened with him? He was played so much then people stop, he's still sick good

But mainly, why don't people play Poppy SO GOD DAMN GOOD!!!


I've been running 9/21/0 on her, armor/mr runes including reds, hp regen quints, and opening regrowth. I've run this setup a few times and I've absolutely crushed my lane every time - I'm talking hard zoning them - including vs a gp who picked up first blood in the level one jungle fight and got repeated shyvana ganks.

I've also lost every single game, it's too bad this hero actually requires skill so I can't carry with her.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Fuzzmosis
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada752 Posts
February 16 2012 02:09 GMT
#808
So.... Choppa, when faced with 5 man magic damage dealing team.... got the normal amount of magic resist.

"They have a Ryze and a Karthus... Glass Cannon Ashe here I go!"
I'm From Canada, so they think I'm slow, eh?
ManyCookies
Profile Joined December 2010
1164 Posts
February 16 2012 02:14 GMT
#809
I don't know if EG just got far enough ahead, but Shen actually seemed to do something late game.
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
February 16 2012 02:17 GMT
#810
On February 16 2012 11:05 UniversalSnip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2012 10:55 Yttrasil wrote:
Yes seriously, why don't people ever play Poppy top. It's disgustingly strong at laning phase and lategame, seriously I think I should start abusing her as well. Just sick stronk!!!

Talon as well, don't know why people stopped playing him, he's still great like before and works almost everywhere always.

Then I'd say Olaf, why don't people play him top more? He stomps on so many so hard and is overall really good.

Last Malzahar, what happened with him? He was played so much then people stop, he's still sick good

But mainly, why don't people play Poppy SO GOD DAMN GOOD!!!


I've been running 9/21/0 on her, armor/mr runes including reds, hp regen quints, and opening regrowth. I've run this setup a few times and I've absolutely crushed my lane every time - I'm talking hard zoning them - including vs a gp who picked up first blood in the level one jungle fight and got repeated shyvana ganks.

I've also lost every single game, it's too bad this hero actually requires skill so I can't carry with her.


She does? Really? Are you sure it's just not your team? Cos I can carry with poppy. Yes. Rugfeeder can carry with poppy.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-16 02:18:58
February 16 2012 02:18 GMT
#811
Last Malzahar, what happened with him? He was played so much then people stop, he's still sick good


malz got 2 or more nerfs in a row, mainly his purple pool that melted everyone in teamfights.
that was right after a big tournament where he was played often.
Kaneh
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada737 Posts
February 16 2012 02:18 GMT
#812
anyone else feel that support soraka actually got buffed? the auto animation is HUGE for harass in lane, and she still doesn't have mana issues. If you run philo>shurelya you never notice mana issues at all. Her 1-3 are still weakish, but actually better because of her auto. so they basically made her e give more mana and made her harass easier with very little downside.

then again you can't just rollface and do decently with her anymore so she's nerfed for the general population.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 16 2012 02:21 GMT
#813
On February 16 2012 11:18 Kaneh wrote:
anyone else feel that support soraka actually got buffed? the auto animation is HUGE for harass in lane, and she still doesn't have mana issues. If you run philo>shurelya you never notice mana issues at all. Her 1-3 are still weakish, but actually better because of her auto. so they basically made her e give more mana and made her harass easier with very little downside.

then again you can't just rollface and do decently with her anymore so she's nerfed for the general population.

Ya Xpecial thought that sora was gonna be shit after the change, and I'm not buying it quite yet. Seems to me like the increased mana infuse makes her a very good lane partner for people who like spammin shit (a good portion of ad carries) and also lets you run ap bot.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
February 16 2012 02:25 GMT
#814
On February 16 2012 10:19 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2012 10:10 turdburgler wrote:
highest damage potential against retards. he is a squishy with the lowest ranged ad range in the game, he is most vulnerable to just being turned on with 0 escapes. the worst response to 'twitch out of fucking nowhere' is to run, the best is to just turn around and kill him

Good thing he has a steroid that gives him the highest autoattack range in the game.

Kog'maw's W only gives him 710 AA range. Tristana's passive gives her 703. Spray and Pray gives you 800+.


spray and prey is good i know but, he still has no way to escape, and since he 'has' to be jungled you are giving up 1 summoner spell too so flash is less likely on him. feels like if you have a jarvan or something, anyone with a hard engage twitch isnt going anywhere and has no escape at all.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-16 03:02:26
February 16 2012 03:00 GMT
#815
On February 16 2012 11:25 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2012 10:19 TheYango wrote:
On February 16 2012 10:10 turdburgler wrote:
highest damage potential against retards. he is a squishy with the lowest ranged ad range in the game, he is most vulnerable to just being turned on with 0 escapes. the worst response to 'twitch out of fucking nowhere' is to run, the best is to just turn around and kill him

Good thing he has a steroid that gives him the highest autoattack range in the game.

Kog'maw's W only gives him 710 AA range. Tristana's passive gives her 703. Spray and Pray gives you 800+.


spray and prey is good i know but, he still has no way to escape, and since he 'has' to be jungled you are giving up 1 summoner spell too so flash is less likely on him. feels like if you have a jarvan or something, anyone with a hard engage twitch isnt going anywhere and has no escape at all.


Not necessarily, Twitch is pretty good top as well.

Hell, Rincent is currently ranked 48th in NA and he plays Twitch top almost every single game. Go look at his match history, as we speak Seven of his ten last games played are of Twitch top.

http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/ladders/na/current/rankedsolo5x5?summoner_name=Rincent
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 16 2012 03:02 GMT
#816
Rincent = the new Q-tips

He Mundos pretty gud too.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 16 2012 03:14 GMT
#817
Oh snap. Just realized I queued in soloQ at 3 AM during kids' vacations. And not it's too late to dodge. Welp, I'll get what I deserve.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
February 16 2012 03:15 GMT
#818
On February 16 2012 10:42 Navi wrote:
since people like to bag on evelynn, lets take her as an example
she has a better stealth gank in terms of not knowing when she is coming / passing wards than shaco (no orange poof), while having a decent slow and armor/mr redux on her hit after stealth. this is nowhere near as strong as the stun she used to have, but it still makes for strong ganks and forces the enemy to play passive
if jungling, she is relatively weak in a standing 1v1 fight against a strong counterjungler (mundo, lee, shyvana)
this can be made up for with a strong midlaner who has the ability to push at early levels if needed to maintain jungle control for evelynn (i.e. the enemy laner cannot follow without being at an exp disadvantage / risk losing further creeps and/or is weaker in early level 2v2s), which would make invading very risky versus her
a 320 base damage nuke with 1.0 AP scaling that reduces 24 armor and MR at max rank is not too weak midgame - she is not as useless as some people would have others believe. if she is able to utilize her ultimate's healing 2 or more times in a teamfight, she gets a large amount of free healing, which can be reliably used in tandem with ganks or single-target hard focusing

lategame she does not provide the same amount of CC or mixture of pure damage and tankiness that other popular junglers have - but she has great map presence in that she can punish splitpushing and can clear wards with relative safety if any of the opponent's team is on the map.

she may not be a competitive pick in tournaments, but she is certainly viable in solo queue in the hands of a knowledgable player and she may even have her place in the correct team comp.

sure, some picks are stronger than others. but no pick is completely unviable - they all have niche periods of strength that many others do not. for example, evelynn's gank at levels 2 and 3 is often crippling to a laner who is not forfeitting cs for fear of her - twitch and shaco are the only other two who can present similar threat due to their stealth, and evelynn is able to cover more distance than twitch roaming mid-lategame due to her ultimate's movespeed

if they change her passive to something useful and up some base numbers on her, i can see her being legitimately strong - but to say that she is totally unviable is either exaggeration or lack of understanding of the game


Having 2-3 levels of strength(relative strength, because even in her strong period she is most certainly not as strong overall as the top tier champs, just better in said niche situation) does not make you 'viable' in a competitive sense, which is the only one that matters.

I get that you and Yango are making a point about how some champs feel weaker because the current gameplay doesn't involve their strengths, which then causes a cycle of discouragement of even playing them to find a comp/meta/something that makes them feel stronger, but sometimes a turd is a turd. There are weak champions. This is true in this game, it's true in dota.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
February 16 2012 03:27 GMT
#819
TSM scrimming CRS drafting now
Praetorial
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States4241 Posts
February 16 2012 03:35 GMT
#820
On February 16 2012 12:14 Alaric wrote:
Oh snap. Just realized I queued in soloQ at 3 AM during kids' vacations. And not it's too late to dodge. Welp, I'll get what I deserve.


Some of us kids might be a bit offended by that .

Just saying.
FOR GREAT JUSTICE! Bans for the ban gods!
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