|
On January 14 2012 08:51 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On January 14 2012 07:33 Terranasaur wrote:On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote:
So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power. Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game. Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships? Momentum, man, is the key here. I dunno man. Momentum is a weird concept when it comes DOTA. On one hand you have the hardcore kids that have played for years and are killing themselves over invites and on the other you have people like me; I played a bit of DOTA on the Warcraft engine, not a little, not a lot, and I got my hands on DOTA2 and was not impressed at all. I mean, ya, the engine is a lot smoother, the graphics are better, but the champs/items/map is the same. I was very underwhelmed. I think if Starcraft2 had been BW with better graphics I would have felt the same. I think Valve really missed the boat with this one, they had a chance to make a completely new game and instead just recycled the same old song and dance. I only have time for one MOBA in my life. And for me it's league.
On the other hand its a trade-off - Valve bought legitimacy be making DotA2 just dota on a new engine. If it had been changed significantly then it would not be seen as more legitimate, by the dota community, than LoL is. (I'm talking about perception of legitmacy not reality).
|
On January 14 2012 08:51 Terranasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 07:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On January 14 2012 07:33 Terranasaur wrote:On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote:
So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power. Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game. Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships? Momentum, man, is the key here. I dunno man. Momentum is a weird concept when it comes DOTA. On one hand you have the hardcore kids that have played for years and are killing themselves over invites and on the other you have people like me; I played a bit of DOTA on the Warcraft engine, not a little, not a lot, and I got my hands on DOTA2 and was not impressed at all. I mean, ya, the engine is a lot smoother, the graphics are better, but the champs/items/map is the same. I was very underwhelmed. I think if Starcraft2 had been BW with better graphics I would have felt the same. I think Valve really missed the boat with this one, they had a chance to make a completely new game and instead just recycled the same old song and dance. I only have time for one MOBA in my life. And for me it's league.
and there's just as many people who hate sc2 because it moved too far away from brood war. Don't consider your opinion the norm because there's plenty of people on both sides. I'm not going to start a debate on which opinion is the correct one to hold either, but realize that there are people on both sides.
|
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion?
|
On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion?
He has the pimpest walk animation in the game. Dat swagger.
|
On January 14 2012 08:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 08:26 Craton wrote:
RTS are shit to watch if you've never played them. FPS are pretty dull, too. Even regular sports are generally pretty uninteresting if you don't understand what's going on. This is your personal opinion, and it's very much not supported by the noticeable non-gaming demographic that's seen in the audience at Korean BW events.
His personal opinion is pretty spot on though. Just because you can find an example for one game in one country doesn't mean it's the norm for everyone in every country.
I would find Cricket boring as hell to watch because I don't understand it. It's the same reason I don't like watching football/soccer because I only played it once when I was five and don't really understand all of the rules to it.
I don't think StarCraft or LoL or any other video game is inherently "easier" to watch to non-players. Like, I hear stories of people who "don't even play StarCraft" enjoying it while everyone that I've ever tried to get to watch Brood War matches with me thought it was boring and uninteresting.
By and large, the vast majority of an audience for any e-Sport is going to be people who understand the game. Just like with any real sport. Which is what I think Craton was trying to express.
|
The more i learn about LoL the more boring it gets to watch competitively. Most "professionally casted" games are aimed at people who don't know what all the moves are so they can follow whats happening, but even then in a 5v5 the casters just yell about one guys ultimate. if a pro gamer is casting something they always give really smart analysis and find out what was the actual reason that one side won.
edit: i have never played BW but my roommate loves it and would watch streams and tell me what is happening. but the game is literally incomprehensible if you cant figure out that the white box in the minimap shows the part of the map that the big screen is viewing, except i guess you could keep track of how many fights the blue guys seem to be winning against the yellow guys.
|
On January 14 2012 09:00 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 08:51 Terranasaur wrote:On January 14 2012 07:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On January 14 2012 07:33 Terranasaur wrote:On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote:
So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power. Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game. Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships? Momentum, man, is the key here. I dunno man. Momentum is a weird concept when it comes DOTA. On one hand you have the hardcore kids that have played for years and are killing themselves over invites and on the other you have people like me; I played a bit of DOTA on the Warcraft engine, not a little, not a lot, and I got my hands on DOTA2 and was not impressed at all. I mean, ya, the engine is a lot smoother, the graphics are better, but the champs/items/map is the same. I was very underwhelmed. I think if Starcraft2 had been BW with better graphics I would have felt the same. I think Valve really missed the boat with this one, they had a chance to make a completely new game and instead just recycled the same old song and dance. I only have time for one MOBA in my life. And for me it's league. and there's just as many people who hate sc2 because it moved too far away from brood war. Don't consider your opinion the norm because there's plenty of people on both sides. I'm not going to start a debate on which opinion is the correct one to hold either, but realize that there are people on both sides.
I thought I was pretty clear that there were people on both sides when I said "on one hand you have this group, on the other you have this group..."
The whole point is that I think MOBA games are going to be more like the FPS scene than the RTS scene. It will always be fractured.
|
I don't think the new dota 2 engine is smoother in fact I found it extra clunky after many years of dota then again I've only played a few hundred games of dota2 and several thousands of dota 1
|
On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion?
His poke in a turret siege is retarded.
|
On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion?
heimer is really hard to balance. one patch he's instaban first pick can't lose, next patch he's very bad. just a hard champ to balance
|
On January 14 2012 09:39 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion? heimer is really hard to balance. one patch he's instaban first pick can't lose, next patch he's very bad. just a hard champ to balance
His turrets def need a buff though, right now they're free gold for the enemy.
|
On January 14 2012 09:39 deskscaress wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion? heimer is really hard to balance. one patch he's instaban first pick can't lose, next patch he's very bad. just a hard champ to balance
back in the day of 3 turrets when you could just push down every lane over and over
and when you could hurt turrets with grenades
|
On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion?
This post is going to have nothing to do with your post other than relate to the "off topic" portion. Unfortunately, due to the way that this subforum is set up, isn't everything basically considered off topic? It is so hard to keep track of multiple discussions that it almost isn't even worth bothering trying to have a conversation about anything other than what is currently the flavor of the day.
|
On January 14 2012 09:53 rizzla wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion? This post is going to have nothing to do with your post other than relate to the "off topic" portion. Unfortunately, due to the way that this subforum is set up, isn't everything basically considered off topic? It is so hard to keep track of multiple discussions that it almost isn't even worth bothering trying to have a conversation about anything other than what is currently the flavor of the day.
Not sure I agree. It's pretty easy to see who's talking to who as long as they quote the post they're responding to.
|
Questions in this thread get answered generally, especially if they havent been asked before and are actually thought provoking.
And the simple way to end the discussion of the day is to come up with a more interesting one.
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 14 2012 10:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
And the simple way to end the discussion of the day is to come up with a more interesting one.
If that actually worked then a lot of these discussions about really inane things wouldn't last as long as they do.
|
On January 14 2012 09:56 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:53 rizzla wrote:On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion? This post is going to have nothing to do with your post other than relate to the "off topic" portion. Unfortunately, due to the way that this subforum is set up, isn't everything basically considered off topic? It is so hard to keep track of multiple discussions that it almost isn't even worth bothering trying to have a conversation about anything other than what is currently the flavor of the day. Not sure I agree. It's pretty easy to see who's talking to who as long as they quote the post they're responding to.
True, but there is a very inconsistent stream of thoughts. It just seems illogical to have absolutely everything crammed into one place where every conversation overlaps each other. I'm sure the people who don't find what we are discussing interesting would rather it not be interrupting their conversation. The logic behind the single thread system still evades my understanding, when it is rather clearly more advantageous to allow the forum to follow a "normal" forum structure that is found on virtually every other forum in existence.
EDIT: This also brings up the point of why does LoL even need its own subforum anyway? If everything is still funneled through one pipe, I don't see the need for the continued existence of this subform.
|
On January 14 2012 10:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 10:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
And the simple way to end the discussion of the day is to come up with a more interesting one. If that actually worked then a lot of these discussions about really inane things wouldn't last as long as they do.
That just means no one has come up with a less inane question. Like the role question today I personally think is an interesting thought exercise. But if someone came up with a better question, I would have focused on that today instead.
|
On January 14 2012 09:44 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 09:39 deskscaress wrote:On January 14 2012 09:17 turdburgler wrote:
slightly (completely) off topic but does anyone else find heimer to be completely trash? his abilities all feel clunky and bad. his mana costs are insane, he doesnt even push that well. he has joint lowest base movement speed in the game etc etc. is there 1 redeeming feature about this champion? heimer is really hard to balance. one patch he's instaban first pick can't lose, next patch he's very bad. just a hard champ to balance His turrets def need a buff though, right now they're free gold for the enemy.
Turret life should scale with Heimer's life, and turret armor/mr should also scale with heimer.
|
On January 14 2012 10:06 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2012 10:02 TheYango wrote:On January 14 2012 10:01 Two_DoWn wrote:
And the simple way to end the discussion of the day is to come up with a more interesting one. If that actually worked then a lot of these discussions about really inane things wouldn't last as long as they do. That just means no one has come up with a less inane question. Like the role question today I personally think is an interesting thought exercise. But if someone came up with a better question, I would have focused on that today instead.
insert gold per 10 item discussion! jkjkjk
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
