On January 14 2012 06:45 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: If you have trouble raging, just play bot games. It's really cathartic to do whatever you want and still go like 50/1/10 or something.
Always dive the fountain just before you win. Always.
Bonus points for pentakill in fountain, triple snowball 20 stacks by 15 min and taking tower by five.
This is so true. ALWAYS DIVE FOUNTAIN AT END!
If you're afraid that your team will lose to bots, then do this: check everyone's characters at the start of the game. If they seem to have a full rune page then they are probably good enough to beat bots. Two good players are good enough to carry 3 level fives. If none of them have a decent rune page then just get triple snowball items, and you still won't lose as long as two people don't leave.
Honestly I HOPE that my allies will be an arranged team of noobs in bot games, just so they won't be able to steal my kills or end the game too quickly so I go 50-0.
It's entirely possible to beat the bots more or less by yourself 1v5 with no runes as AD soraka, I speak from experience.
I have 400 bot game wins but only 650 normal game wins because I always play bots for a predictable FWOTD but rarely play an actual game. So weird to go from IMMA MUST PLAY RANKED AND BECOME THE VERY BEST to "Wow I can't last hit anymore but I guess it's ok".
I think he means intermediate bots. Otherwise you're right. It's entirely possible to solo 1v5 as AD soraka I'm sorry though, please don't let this become a discussion on intermediate bots being easy too.
On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote: So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power.
Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game.
Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships?
Momentum, man, is the key here.
You realized that DotA is already a televised E-sport in China, right?
Look at the venue they're set up in, with the stage and booth setups. As far as E-sports venues go, that setup is second only to the OGN/MBC studios (which they very clearly stole the design from).
On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote: So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power.
Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game.
Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships?
Momentum, man, is the key here.
You realized that DotA is already a televised E-sport in China, right?
Look at the venue they're set up in, with the stage and booth setups. As far as E-sports venues go, that setup is second only to the OGN/MBC studios (which they very clearly stole the design from).
And while that's nice, how cooperative is China when it comes to international stuff?
On January 14 2012 08:00 AwayFromLife wrote: And while that's nice, how cooperative is China when it comes to international stuff?
No less so than the Korean BW scene? At the very least, international teams get invited to WDC and Chinese teams do travel outside the country to participate in international events like SMM.
On January 14 2012 08:00 AwayFromLife wrote: And while that's nice, how cooperative is China when it comes to international stuff?
No less so than the Korean BW scene? At the very least, international teams get invited to WDC and Chinese teams do travel outside the country to participate in international events like SMM.
I don't just mean teams. When was the last time a game or sport got big because China was out supporting it? You don't hear news from China, they just send teams to compete.
Korean TV casting and support is what MADE BW into a phenomenon bigger than other competitive games at the time. I mean, Fighting games get some love in NA, but can you honestly think of one that borders on the popularity and strength that Starcraft has? It's unheard of.
All the Dota 2 vs LoL stuff is just going to have to wait until after the game is released and we see what the actual numbers of players are. The simple truth is that unlike RTS games, you need to play in order to really enjoy and watch a moba because there are too many moving parts (champions) that you need to memorize in order to follow the game.
I mean, I love watching lol and sc2, but have never played dota. I have tried to watch it, but I just literally cant. I have no clue what is going on, and it isnt even fun to try to figure it out. If I played more dota and knew what was going on? Different story.
So ya. If dota 2 gets a huge playerbase, then there will be an interest in the competitive scene. If they dont, then there probably wont be a huge scene in the west.
Semi side note: all of the "dota makes a better competitive game" is utter bullshit. The only thing that makes a game competitive is if there are people willing watch it being played at a high level.
On January 14 2012 08:08 AwayFromLife wrote: Korean TV casting and support is what MADE BW into a phenomenon bigger than other competitive games at the time. I mean, Fighting games get some love in NA, but can you honestly think of one that borders on the popularity and strength that Starcraft has? It's unheard of.
You're lumping a LOT of people and factors in together all as "Korean TV casting and support". There's a lot more that went into it. BW didn't become BW because OGN decided to host one tournament. It became a phenomenon through several years of growth, and through the influence of many other important individuals and organizations. LoL isn't by definition huge just because OGN has a LoL show. That in and of itself isn't any more definitive than what I pointed out about how DotA is already televised in China.
On January 14 2012 07:53 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: How many ranked games do you need to play in order to get ranked according to your elo? I played my second one after a while.
On January 14 2012 07:53 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: How many ranked games do you need to play in order to get ranked according to your elo? I played my second one after a while.
On January 14 2012 08:11 Two_DoWn wrote: All the Dota 2 vs LoL stuff is just going to have to wait until after the game is released and we see what the actual numbers of players are. The simple truth is that unlike RTS games, you need to play in order to really enjoy and watch a moba because there are too many moving parts (champions) that you need to memorize in order to follow the game.
I mean, I love watching lol and sc2, but have never played dota. I have tried to watch it, but I just literally cant. I have no clue what is going on, and it isnt even fun to try to figure it out. If I played more dota and knew what was going on? Different story.
So ya. If dota 2 gets a huge playerbase, then there will be an interest in the competitive scene. If they dont, then there probably wont be a huge scene in the west.
Semi side note: all of the "dota makes a better competitive game" is utter bullshit. The only thing that makes a game competitive is if there are people willing watch it being played at a high level.
I think Valve hasn't even considered how much of a logistics and PR nightmare it will potentially be to get the Chinese competitive scene to switch over from DotA to DotA 2. Just look what a huge fiasco Blizzard/Kespa relations became.
On January 14 2012 08:11 Two_DoWn wrote: All the Dota 2 vs LoL stuff is just going to have to wait until after the game is released and we see what the actual numbers of players are. The simple truth is that unlike RTS games, you need to play in order to really enjoy and watch a moba because there are too many moving parts (champions) that you need to memorize in order to follow the game.
I mean, I love watching lol and sc2, but have never played dota. I have tried to watch it, but I just literally cant. I have no clue what is going on, and it isnt even fun to try to figure it out. If I played more dota and knew what was going on? Different story.
So ya. If dota 2 gets a huge playerbase, then there will be an interest in the competitive scene. If they dont, then there probably wont be a huge scene in the west.
Semi side note: all of the "dota makes a better competitive game" is utter bullshit. The only thing that makes a game competitive is if there are people willing watch it being played at a high level.
Meh, you don't really need to know that much about LoL to enjoy it on a surface level. That's why I like Riot's designs, you can generally look at a champ and tell what they do. That chick with the bow shoots arrow, and it looks like she can slow things. Brand is on fire, and one use of his Pillar lets you know how he fights. Cho is big and burly, so he can probably take punishment. You don't need to know deep strats or team comps to watch tight micro or get thrilled at seeing a perfect gank.
On January 14 2012 08:08 AwayFromLife wrote: Korean TV casting and support is what MADE BW into a phenomenon bigger than other competitive games at the time. I mean, Fighting games get some love in NA, but can you honestly think of one that borders on the popularity and strength that Starcraft has? It's unheard of.
You're lumping a LOT of people and factors in together all as "Korean TV casting and support". There's a lot more that went into it. BW didn't become BW because OGN decided to host one tournament. It became a phenomenon through several years of growth, and through the influence of many other important individuals and organizations. LoL isn't by definition huge just because OGN has a LoL show.
I'm not saying it'll take off overnight, but it's a huge step in the right direction. With eSports becoming bigger elsewhere, and LoL becoming basically the MOBA (or whatever term you like) cornerstone of that group, it's fairly well guaranteed that it's going to remain in the public view for quite some time.
On January 14 2012 08:17 AwayFromLife wrote: Meh, you don't really need to know that much about LoL to enjoy it on a surface level. That's why I like Riot's designs, you can generally look at a champ and tell what they do. That chick with the bow shoots arrow, and it looks like she can slow things. Brand is on fire, and one use of his Pillar lets you know how he fights. Cho is big and burly, so he can probably take punishment. You don't need to know deep strats or team comps to watch tight micro or get thrilled at seeing a perfect gank.
The problem with all MOBAs is that the farming phase is boring visually, the undercurrents of map control and global gold advantage are hard to convey to an uninitiated spectator, and that it's generally hard to judge how "well" a team is doing if you don't understand the items/heroes involved. RTS games don't have this problem because the guy with more stuff on the map or the bigger, scarier units is the guy who's probably winning. It's much easier to follow the ebb and flow of the game at the surface level.
LoL actually exacerbates some of these problems because there are a lot of very real advantages that are not immediately intuitive to a new spectator. The farming phases are longer, its hard for a spectator to gauge the value of a wasted summoner (which tends to happen a lot of times when a kill could have happened), as well as the value of the buffs (which are, all things considered, less tangible gains than the runes in DotA, even though they're also probably more powerful).
RTS are shit to watch if you've never played them. FPS are pretty dull, too. Even regular sports are generally pretty uninteresting if you don't understand what's going on.
On January 14 2012 08:26 Craton wrote: RTS are shit to watch if you've never played them. FPS are pretty dull, too. Even regular sports are generally pretty uninteresting if you don't understand what's going on.
This is your personal opinion, and it's very much not supported by the noticeable non-gaming demographic that's seen in the audience at Korean BW events.
pretty sure i heard somewhere that pretty much "everyone" in korea has atleast tried BW. take that for what its worth when i cant give any decent source
On January 14 2012 07:31 AwayFromLife wrote: So I don't mean to strike up the old DOTA2 v LoL discussion again, but I was thinking about OGN picking up LoL. Seriously, if you get a Korean channel to promote a new eSport, it's hard for it to fail.
I love Valve, but honestly, what would they have to compete with that? Unless they get, like ESPN to pick up DOTA2, this puts LoL miles ahead in the "legit eSport" category and gives it staying power.
Dota2 isn't even out yet. Its hard to have an esport if nobody can buy the game.
Well that's not the point. It'd be like a new RTS competing with Starcraft. DOTA2 has the old DotA players behind it, and Valve fans, but how do you even get into the competitive game when your opponent has not only as strong of a following, but is already a televised sport with dedicated casters and sponsorships?
Momentum, man, is the key here.
I dunno man. Momentum is a weird concept when it comes DOTA. On one hand you have the hardcore kids that have played for years and are killing themselves over invites and on the other you have people like me; I played a bit of DOTA on the Warcraft engine, not a little, not a lot, and I got my hands on DOTA2 and was not impressed at all. I mean, ya, the engine is a lot smoother, the graphics are better, but the champs/items/map is the same. I was very underwhelmed. I think if Starcraft2 had been BW with better graphics I would have felt the same. I think Valve really missed the boat with this one, they had a chance to make a completely new game and instead just recycled the same old song and dance.
I only have time for one MOBA in my life. And for me it's league.
Not just MOBAs, videogames in general are (rightfully) more concerned with being played than being watched. Especially in a Teamgame the audience gets more information that is either irrelevant or even intentionally kept from the actual players. That requires a radically different UI/Perspective than the normal interface.
Regarding Dota2: I´ve had plenty issues with Dota already which Dota2 explicitly DOESN´T adress. All the stuff they DO change is (for me) secondary to the actual enjoyment of the current match. Graphics? Tend to look actually WORSE when you have to dial down the settings. Replays and Reconnects? Only matter if I actually LIKED the match in question, etc... I think the strict adherence to Dota holds the game back, from "just enough that Blizzard can´t sue" Charactermodels to not showing enemy manabars because that was a WC3 quirk.
EPT
