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On January 11 2012 03:18 Brees wrote:
the jungle changes are really bad imo, I feel like im playing support now so I pretty much refuse to jungle anymore unless I get something ridic like skarner/rammus.
the farm you get is so little all they did was change it from 1 hurpdurp 0 cs position to 2 hurpdurp 0 cs positions. All the popular junglers now are the ones you get philo/hog and spam ganks afterwards except lee sin, but i find him really weak right now in the jungle so thats another story.
Jungling went from my favorite role to my 2nd least favorite role, if that isnt a testament to how shitty the changes were i dont know what is.
You don't like spam ganking? I think jungle is pretty much the old school roaming meta, except w/ buffs.
tbh they need to tweak a lot of champions for jungling. Pretty much for me it's been, skarner, lee sin, or shaco jungle the entire time. with the occasional trolling jungle singed. they need to either buff other junglers or nerf those 3 that I mentioned.
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It's kind of hard to quantify more or less ganks because of the radically different playstyle of everyone on the team. Not only is it dependant on the jungler himself, but also the skill and intuition of the laners. I don't think that I have seen that much of a change personally in the amount of ganks coming for or against me. It is purely situational based on a multitude of factors that aren't easily defining an increase or decrease in ganks per game.
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On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit.
I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence.
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On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence.
imo the new changes increased the important-ness of warding.
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The age old hero hugenoodlebrain has done it again fellas. For a fun time, try out orianna support bot lane. Pair it with something like tristana, max q last, afk with your ball on them (hyper tankys!). autoattack harass, speed boost, DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO.
its ez, its super effective, go try it.
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On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit.
The threat of a farmfest jungle was very real following the initial release of the new jungle. It was common for a failed gank to result in the jungler falling behind the duo lanes in levels. As a result Riot upped the base gold/exp values of the jungle and also added banking. Without those changes the jungle would be a very different place today.
There are still unresolved issues in the jungle. Junglers without strong AoE abilities are still slower and less viable than their peers, and counter-jungling is still a shadow of its former self. These aren't easy problems to solve, but their existence undercuts any claims that the new jungle is complete or that its detractors are out of touch/obstinate.
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On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence.
Sorry, I don't want to start a fight here but I'm genuinely confused. When all the changes came through I though the main complaint people had was passivity, especially in the early game. And riot acknowledged that and said their changes were aimed at resolving that. And the response of the community was that the changes would just make the game more passive not less (and thes complaints accomanied by much bitching and name-calling directed at riot). Only that turns out to be wrong and the game is less passive.
You seem (to me) to be complaining that you can't just passively free-farm like you could before - but I though that was exactly what the changes were supposed to do. MAYBE you could turn around and say "hey the GOAL of the changes is bad" but isn't that the fault of the community for bitching at riot about a problem that wasn't really a problem?
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On January 11 2012 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence. imo the new changes increased the important-ness of warding.
Nah, even if you have a ward in the brush the jungler is camping all you're going to be able to do is just sit back while the opponent gets to freefarm and do as he likes. The game's just completely ridiculous right now, I think a lot of the problems would be fixed if they added denying into the game but riot would never do that as it's one of the major selling points of the game.
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I wonder when people are going to start warding top (depending on the lane and enemy jungler). There are matchups where you can open cloth + ward + 2/3 pots (depending if you can wait in base or need to leash), and there are times when support can open FC + 4 wards + pot and ward top lane for you.
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On January 11 2012 03:20 57 Corvette wrote:About a week ago I posted on Reddit asking for people's top ban picks. After about 200 replies, I took the preferred bans from the main posts (none of the reply posts), tallied them up and graphed them. Unsurprisingly, the most banned champion is..
Not surprising to me either. The top 4 are either champs that require map awareness to counter (Shaco and Rammus), or are banned at a high level, so most people ban them because the pros do (Morg and Kass).
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On January 11 2012 03:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence. imo the new changes increased the important-ness of warding. Nah, even if you have a ward in the brush the jungler is camping all you're going to be able to do is just sit back while the opponent gets to freefarm and do as he likes. The game's just completely ridiculous right now, I think a lot of the problems would be fixed if they added denying into the game but riot would never do that as it's one of the major selling points of the game.
though I agree, when I run full 5's, we usually counter gank with mid or jungler, if we see someone camping a bush.
also, fuck GP solo top.
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On January 11 2012 03:43 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:20 57 Corvette wrote:About a week ago I posted on Reddit asking for people's top ban picks. After about 200 replies, I took the preferred bans from the main posts (none of the reply posts), tallied them up and graphed them. Unsurprisingly, the most banned champion is.. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EQ8BS.png) Not surprising to me either. The top 4 are either champs that require map awareness to counter (Shaco and Rammus), or are banned at a high level, so most people ban them because the pros do (Morg and Kass).
Imo I think people ban morgana and kass because they don't know how to lane against them as an AP mid.
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Interesting builds from CLG EU:
Riven: Wriggle, Brut, GA, Thornmail
Vayne: Wriggle (to deal with Cait), BC, QSS (for Skarner/LB), PD, Phage
Even if the general team comps are similar, the EU vs NA playstyles and item builds are pretty different and definitely interesting to watch.
EDIT: Kass and Morg are more banned at mid-low elo than at pro level. Kass is like pre-nerf Akali; snowballs like crazy and people don't know how to properly lane against him. Morg is the safest mid while being ridiculously game breaking in team fights. Morg was actually ignored (or at most a target ban) in most pro games until the Rumble/Kennendouble WOTA/aoe shenanigans.
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On January 11 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:16 Craton wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up? Not even a little. Really? I've seen a shit ton more level 2 ganks, than ever before. Not to mention lanes have become a lot more aggressive, and lanes tend to be pushed a lot more than it was before, that means ganks are usually more successful as well. Now this might have to do with teh fact that i've been getting better, and getting paired with better players, but I think the new jungle and mastery changes. though tbh, I think masteries still need a lot of tweaking, especially for the offensive tree.
New masteries means earlygame damage is higher.
Lack of CV means you aren't as map aware at the start of the game.
People choosing a lot of good lvl 2 gankers nowadays because of their ability to consistently gank in the new jungle (since farm in the new jungle is shit) examples: shaco, rammus
It's more that Riot destroyed the jungle so I've seen a lot of people try to gank and steal a lane's farm after a "gank". :D
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On January 11 2012 03:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence. imo the new changes increased the important-ness of warding. Nah, even if you have a ward in the brush the jungler is camping all you're going to be able to do is just sit back while the opponent gets to freefarm and do as he likes. The game's just completely ridiculous right now, I think a lot of the problems would be fixed if they added denying into the game but riot would never do that as it's one of the major selling points of the game.
Although I like denying, I find zoning and freezing lanes a completely different skill set in LoL than simply last hitting your own minions. If their jungler is camping top, guess what, that leaves bot and mid, as well as the enemy jungle to be free reign for your own jungler. A jungler camping your lane means you have a good idea of where he is.
You may lose out on a bit of cs, but if you can freeze your lane near your tower while a jungler is trying to camp you, he's wasted a lot of time and map control.
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On January 11 2012 03:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:16 Craton wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up? Not even a little. Really? I've seen a shit ton more level 2 ganks, than ever before.
It's all in your head, then.
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On January 11 2012 03:49 Sandster wrote:
Interesting builds from CLG EU:
Riven: Wriggle, Brut, GA, Thornmail
Vayne: Wriggle (to deal with Cait), BC, QSS (for Skarner/LB), PD, Phage
Even if the general team comps are similar, the EU vs NA playstyles and item builds are pretty different and definitely interesting to watch.
The only unusual items i don't see used often on NA streams are thornmail for riven and phage for vayne. Though i saw vaynes that got triforce as 6. item. Wicked is probably the only person i saw building thornmail (pretty sure he got it on lee sin in one of the last tourneys as well)
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On January 11 2012 03:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:On January 11 2012 03:30 Mogwai wrote:On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?
I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong. I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit. I'm not going to admit that I was wrong or give riot any credit because the game is so much worse now than it was 3 months ago that it's not even fucking funny. new masteries and new jungle were both huge net changes for the worse. so sure, the jungle changes ended up not playing out how some of us expected them to, but that doesn't mean I enjoy getting camped top lane for the first 5 minutes of the game with essentially no consequence. imo the new changes increased the important-ness of warding. Nah, even if you have a ward in the brush the jungler is camping all you're going to be able to do is just sit back while the opponent gets to freefarm and do as he likes. The game's just completely ridiculous right now, I think a lot of the problems would be fixed if they added denying into the game but riot would never do that as it's one of the major selling points of the game.
it seems to me that adding denies would encourage camping a lane. as it is now when you camp a lane you sacrifice the some of the gold and the exp in your jungle to deny that laner gold and stop him from denying your laner gold. if there is denying then you can deny both exp and gold and take the laner completely out of the game.
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On January 11 2012 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 03:43 Requizen wrote:On January 11 2012 03:20 57 Corvette wrote:About a week ago I posted on Reddit asking for people's top ban picks. After about 200 replies, I took the preferred bans from the main posts (none of the reply posts), tallied them up and graphed them. Unsurprisingly, the most banned champion is.. Not surprising to me either. The top 4 are either champs that require map awareness to counter (Shaco and Rammus), or are banned at a high level, so most people ban them because the pros do (Morg and Kass). Imo I think people ban morgana and kass because they don't know how to lane against them as an AP mid.
I think it's more the fact that people don't know how to deal with their ganks. Morg can push a lane well, and then roam around, and her ult is strong. Kassadin is very mobile and his ganks are difficult to survive.
Kassadin suffers from pushing his lane hard early on, and I think Morgana is entirely overrated. But that's coming from a Cass main.
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Morg is hugely overrated.
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EPT
