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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 146

Forum Index > LoL General
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phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
January 10 2012 17:53 GMT
#2901
The changes to death ray make it much easier to hit with in that it now actually seems to have a width and an AoE greater than 0 around the starting and end points. Makes him a ton more useable.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 17:56:30
January 10 2012 17:56 GMT
#2902
On January 11 2012 02:17 rizzla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:05 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Liquipedia has always been and will probably always be a Starcraft compendium. Teamliquid is an SC website and that won't change. As for our TL LoL Wiki we have? Well, the problem is that maintaining and updating a wiki requires a massive amount of manhours of which we don't have. We'd also be encroaching into the territory of the actual LoL Wiki which we can't really compete with either and probably have no intention of competing against either.

I agree that it was created with the goal of everything StarCraft in mind. However, TL has become an extremely large eSports community that houses many different groups (EVE, LoL, DoTa, etc). Encompassing more than just SC allows for more traffic and thus more ad revenue. I don't think that the powers that be would argue against something that has absolutely no negative impact. I believe it purely exists on the will to branch out and grow the TL community. Food for thought.



i asked neo like 3 months ago why theres no info on the side about famous lol streamers and stuff. now loci + others are featured i think and some lol tourney streams get posted there? so there is progress and hotbid has said before that teamliquid isnt against other esports, so if the TL lol community continues to grow it wouldnt be out of the realm of possibility to see a lolliquidipedia.
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
January 10 2012 17:56 GMT
#2903
Time to get active on the LoL forums! Got 30 a bit ago and steamrolled to 1555 right now on EU West. Watching LoL is actually quite fun, guess ill watching CLG vs mTl some ^_^

Meh, also need good 5s :o
Moderator
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 10 2012 17:56 GMT
#2904
On January 11 2012 02:42 Alaric wrote:
Regarding Skarner I noticed that TOO doesn't get E before level... at least not before 8 or 9.

Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:00 Requizen wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:45 Alaric wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:38 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:27 Requizen wrote:
Viktor changes in lunar patch, only balance bits:

Viktor
-base mana regen per 5 seconds increased to 6.9 from 4.3
-basic attack frame has been improved to be more responsive
-fixed a bug with chaos storm where the opposing viktor could control your storm
-fixed a bug where gravity field's stun effect could not be cleansed
-improved death ray to be more responsive
-fixed a bug where viktor's augments displayed a cost of 1200g instead of 1000g

I haven't played him in a few days, but here's my thoughts. There are really only two noticeable things, manga regen and Death Ray. Mana regen is nice, should make his early game a bit less risky to cast during. However, it also devalues Gravity a bit more, I think Death is probably the better augment right now. When they responsiveness, I hope they mean Death Ray actually hitting the whole breadth of it's range, which it doesn't right now. I guess the attack frame thing is a buff, but I never really had a problem with that.

That said, I don't think it'll make him super desirable in one patch. He's still good, but I almost just feel that other casters (including Swain prominently) do his job better. He's not really a bursty mage outside of his Ult, and he doesn't really have sustained damage outside the fact that Q and E are somewhat short CDs. His biggest use right now is dropping W for team fights and Ulting squishy targets.

Better buffs would be increasing Q's missile speed (or making the shield instant), and/or increasing it's damage. Q is very underwhelming, overall.


These changes make me a very happy Viktor player. I never really had too many mana issues early, so the extra regen will just make me more confident early. I haven't had too many issues with his attack animation. Death Ray being more responsive will be AWESOME. So many times the ray has gone through things and not damaged it.

I never realized his augment was only 1000g, derpity derp, but I'll consider it a buff since I've been assuming I spend 1200 on it :3

I agree that his Q is fairly underwhelming on a survivability point, but it does a good amount of damage. Also, the burst on his level 3 ult is AWESOME. Last night, even T_D was like "holy shit where did all that burst come from?"


Could you go into a bit more details about how you play him? I haven't been able to pick him a lot, and I mainly tried him top as I felt his mp5 would make him weak against pushers. I generally got more or less destroyed as his stun is nowhere near as good as Swain's Q, W, or Ryze's W (it's better on ganks, but not when some sustainable bruiser rushes you, esp against gap closers).
Mid... mid I had a Gragas. 'nuff said.

I generally tried to build him a bit tankier, something like Rylai's or WotA first -> Death Augment -> Rabadoodle/[WotA or Rylai's (whichever I didn't get)]. Death as augment, level E first, means you get some cheap AP and Death Ray hits like a bitch.

Worked pretty well for me. I'm not a great AP player, but I had mild to good success with this. You really only have 4 item slots (augment and boots taking the others, natch), so I found through trying all of them a handful of times that getting damage from Death and getting WotA and Rylai's for sustain/beef is nice. DC naturally, then Void Staff/DFG for damage, or Abyssal Scepter/Zhonya's for more defense.


That's the kind of build I aim for too, but I was seeing two problems with that:
- weak mp5, and the Gravity Field unusable except for counter-initiation/fleeing push me to augment Gravity, and I tended never to OS minions before the late game, putting them all at 50 hp was kind of annoying
- slot efficiency. A single slot doesn't look like much in the early game, but Hex Core + boots + wards + pots, and if you ever start doran ring you'll be short on space if you build something expensive like Rylai.

I guess I'll try boots first into amp. tome and then proceed to rylai, with the mp5 boost. Perhaps a dr, but not two.

Yeah, I did DRing openings for a while. It makes you much stronger early (obviously, as it's meant to), but lacking that slot means every DR you buy is painful.

Gravity augment is situational. Power is, imo, more or less worthless. I like Death if I know I'm playing with good people, because then I can just do damage. Gravity feels more like your utility augment. It's very nice for lane (W becomes a complete gank ward, and you can stay in longer), but by late game you don't really need the mana since you should have blue/enough base mana.

Death just feels like it's more useful all game round, making your poke stronger, helping clear waves, and, of course, just straight damage. The only part of Gravity that makes me want it badly is the CDR, but even then you get blue if your jungler is competent.
It's your boy Guzma!
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 18:03:15
January 10 2012 17:59 GMT
#2905
On January 11 2012 02:05 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:02 mr_tolkien wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:55 mordek wrote:
So I thought you were suppose to get a level of E on Skarner pre-4, at least that's what I had seen in all the guides but SV is level ten and has yet to level it.

Level 13 gets his first level of E.

All the guides ? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=13232

Except every other Featured and Approved guide on Solomid says to get it at 2 or 3. You just max it last because the damage/heal scaling isn't that high.

I remember watching TheOddOne's stream when he was talking about this. Apparently Dan Dinh was the first person to try to do this (not get any levels in e), and then TOO decided to try to copy it and found he really liked it. It's become what I do on jungle skarner and its a lot better imo.

The reasoning is: skarner will always run out of mana before he runs out of health, unless you have blue buff. Skarner's 'e' costs a lot of mana conisdering his smaller mana pool (205 + 40/lvl) and doesn't do much damage compared to its cost, expecially compared to the damage/mana of his 'q'. So his e is a trap. If you use it clearing jungle then, yes, you will be at a higher amount of health but you will have to recall earlier anyways because you will run out of mana (unless you get all the blue buffs but you should be giving them to others).

In contrast extra levels in his 'w' are super useful (I'm assuming levelling q first anyways). You are going ot be using your 'w' to clear camps anyways since the as makes your clear significantly faster (unless you are conserving mana but then no 'e' either). Extra levels in it will give you more shield, and therefore keep you at higher health, without costing any extra mana like adding 'e' would. It also makes you a little faster for ganks, which is nice. Most significantly and attack speed is really good on skarner; it'll increase your clear significantly (not just by attacking faster but by having your cds up more) and also help with keeping up your Q on ganks.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 10 2012 17:59 GMT
#2906
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong.
liftlift > tsm
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 19:23:56
January 10 2012 18:03 GMT
#2907
On January 11 2012 02:56 Beyonder wrote:
Time to get active on the LoL forums! Got 30 a bit ago and steamrolled to 1555 right now on EU West. Watching LoL is actually quite fun, guess ill watching CLG vs mTl some ^_^

Meh, also need good 5s :o

If one day you want to play with somebody, I'm MrTolkien on EUW I'm searching for a stable 5 man mid-level team as well.

On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong.

Looks more linked to the new masteries to me. Early game is way more agressive now, because you have more killing pressure.
The legend of Darien lives on
-Kato-
Profile Joined June 2010
Spain1146 Posts
January 10 2012 18:04 GMT
#2908
So being 1550 EUW means I'm either 1250 NA (which I dont believe) or 1800 NA (which I dont believe). SHUT UP
Treadmill
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 18:06:42
January 10 2012 18:06 GMT
#2909
On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong.

I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 10 2012 18:06 GMT
#2910
On January 11 2012 02:59 Treadmill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:05 Requizen wrote:
On January 11 2012 02:02 mr_tolkien wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:55 mordek wrote:
So I thought you were suppose to get a level of E on Skarner pre-4, at least that's what I had seen in all the guides but SV is level ten and has yet to level it.

Level 13 gets his first level of E.

All the guides ? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=13232

Except every other Featured and Approved guide on Solomid says to get it at 2 or 3. You just max it last because the damage/heal scaling isn't that high.

I remember watching TheOddOne's stream when he was talking about this. Apparently Dan Dinh was the first person to try to do this (not get any levels in e), and then TOO decided to try to copy it and found he really liked it. It's become what I do on jungle skarner and its a lot better imo.

The reasoning is: skarner will always run out of mana before he runs out of health, unless you have blue buff. Skarner's 'e' costs a lot of mana conisdering his small mana pool (205 + 40/lvl) and doesn't do much damage compared to its cost, expecially compared to the damage/mana of his 'q'. So his e is a trap. If you use it clearing jungle then, yes, you will be at a higher amount of health but you will have to recall earlier anyways because you will run out of mana (unless you get all the blue buffs but you should be giving them to others).

In contrast extra levels in his 'w' are super useful (I'm assuming levelling q first anyways). You are going ot be using your 'w' to clear camps anyways since the as makes your clear significantly faster (unless you are conserving mana but then no 'e' either). Extra levels in it will give you more shield, and therefore keep you at higher health, without costing any extra mana like adding 'e' would. It also makes you a little faster for ganks, which is nice. Most significantly and attack speed is really good on skarner; it'll increase your clear significantly (not just by attacking faster but by having your cds up more) and also help with keeping up your Q on ganks.

Hm, that's rather good reasoning. I remember watching a jungler at one point (don't remember who) talking about taking it early to clear your jungle faster, since that's what Skarner does really well. However, you are extremely correct in talking about it's mana cost. You can basically spam Q with no thought, and W is reasonable as well.

I've never done a game putting off E until mid/late game like that, but it may be worth a look.
It's your boy Guzma!
NotSorry
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States6722 Posts
January 10 2012 18:12 GMT
#2911
MTL vs CLG EU starting now

MTL: Skarner/Cait/Taric/Lb/Tyrn

CLG EU: Noc/Janna/Cassio/Vayne/Riven
We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. - Orwell
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 10 2012 18:14 GMT
#2912
On January 11 2012 03:06 Treadmill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

I remember a few weeks back, everyone was ridiculing how the new jungle was going to be a farm fest, (I even said this myself). Damn was I wrong.

I'm gonna be impressed how all the "riot are morons who are ruining their own game" crowd are gonna contort themselves to neither admit they were wrong nor give riot any credit.

It's still the case that both the frequency and the effectiveness of non-buff counterjungling has gone down, which I still strongly dislike. There's nothing to "give riot credit" for on that aspect.
Moderator
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 18:16:37
January 10 2012 18:16 GMT
#2913
On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

Not even a little.
twitch.tv/cratonz
rizzla
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 18:19:37
January 10 2012 18:16 GMT
#2914
I know that I'm seemly an endless loop with ideas, but I'm thinking about the big picture. Has anyone in the upper echelons of TL ever thought of creating different portals for big games covered? Under the proper guidance and direction, a LoL portal on the TL site (something like lol.teamliquid.net or teamliquid.net/lol/) would allow for information and creativity to be virtually unlimited. It is well known that LoL has a significant following as evidenced by the large numbers of viewers during League events. The main thing that I have seen is that some people here are more interested in keeping the status quo rather than expanding and realizing the full potential of what could be.
League of Legends | rizzla23 | 1597 Highest ELO
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
January 10 2012 18:17 GMT
#2915
There is absolutelegends.eu and a barely used TL LoL wiki.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
January 10 2012 18:18 GMT
#2916
the jungle changes are really bad imo, I feel like im playing support now so I pretty much refuse to jungle anymore unless I get something ridic like skarner/rammus.

the farm you get is so little all they did was change it from 1 hurpdurp 0 cs position to 2 hurpdurp 0 cs positions. All the popular junglers now are the ones you get philo/hog and spam ganks afterwards except lee sin, but i find him really weak right now in the jungle so thats another story.

Jungling went from my favorite role to my 2nd least favorite role, if that isnt a testament to how shitty the changes were i dont know what is.
Brees on in
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 10 2012 18:18 GMT
#2917
On January 11 2012 02:59 Treadmill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:05 Requizen wrote:
On January 11 2012 02:02 mr_tolkien wrote:
On January 11 2012 01:55 mordek wrote:
So I thought you were suppose to get a level of E on Skarner pre-4, at least that's what I had seen in all the guides but SV is level ten and has yet to level it.

Level 13 gets his first level of E.

All the guides ? http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=13232

Except every other Featured and Approved guide on Solomid says to get it at 2 or 3. You just max it last because the damage/heal scaling isn't that high.

I remember watching TheOddOne's stream when he was talking about this. Apparently Dan Dinh was the first person to try to do this (not get any levels in e), and then TOO decided to try to copy it and found he really liked it. It's become what I do on jungle skarner and its a lot better imo.

The reasoning is: skarner will always run out of mana before he runs out of health, unless you have blue buff. Skarner's 'e' costs a lot of mana conisdering his smaller mana pool (205 + 40/lvl) and doesn't do much damage compared to its cost, expecially compared to the damage/mana of his 'q'. So his e is a trap. If you use it clearing jungle then, yes, you will be at a higher amount of health but you will have to recall earlier anyways because you will run out of mana (unless you get all the blue buffs but you should be giving them to others).

In contrast extra levels in his 'w' are super useful (I'm assuming levelling q first anyways). You are going ot be using your 'w' to clear camps anyways since the as makes your clear significantly faster (unless you are conserving mana but then no 'e' either). Extra levels in it will give you more shield, and therefore keep you at higher health, without costing any extra mana like adding 'e' would. It also makes you a little faster for ganks, which is nice. Most significantly and attack speed is really good on skarner; it'll increase your clear significantly (not just by attacking faster but by having your cds up more) and also help with keeping up your Q on ganks.

I suggested QWQW on Skarner back in October.

People said I was crazy, despite my giving the exact same logic.
Moderator
57 Corvette
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada5941 Posts
January 10 2012 18:20 GMT
#2918
About a week ago I posted on Reddit asking for people's top ban picks. After about 200 replies, I took the preferred bans from the main posts (none of the reply posts), tallied them up and graphed them.

Unsurprisingly, the most banned champion is..
[image loading]
Survival is winning, everything else is bullshit.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 10 2012 18:25 GMT
#2919
On January 11 2012 03:16 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2012 02:59 wei2coolman wrote:
Did anyone notice that after the jungle changes that the frequency of ganks have actually gone up?

Not even a little.

Really? I've seen a shit ton more level 2 ganks, than ever before. Not to mention lanes have become a lot more aggressive, and lanes tend to be pushed a lot more than it was before, that means ganks are usually more successful as well. Now this might have to do with teh fact that i've been getting better, and getting paired with better players, but I think the new jungle and mastery changes.

though tbh, I think masteries still need a lot of tweaking, especially for the offensive tree.
liftlift > tsm
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
January 10 2012 18:28 GMT
#2920
I attribute the level 2 ganks to the lack of CV on most teams, not the new jungle.
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