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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 103

Forum Index > LoL General
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Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 07 2012 02:54 GMT
#2041
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.
It's your boy Guzma!
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
January 07 2012 02:54 GMT
#2042
On January 07 2012 11:41 Offhand wrote:
What are the best, most OP bullshit gank champions?

Time to rethink how ELO works. Playing carries when people don't even know to peel (or even what that is if you asked them) isn't going to get me out of 1100.

find someone who plays a good Sona, pick Tristana, always win bot lane, no peels necessary
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:00:44
January 07 2012 02:56 GMT
#2043
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

Should have bought Skarner instead, free teamfight victory every 80 seconds

Oh but about shaco, you basically just gank every lane nonstop and get kills and then build AP and solo baron at 15min and then use the baron buff to get like 10 kills and 2 inhibitors and they surrender at 20
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
January 07 2012 02:59 GMT
#2044
I bought Udyr. I'm never gonna play another champion now.
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:01:28
January 07 2012 03:00 GMT
#2045
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

3x AD Red
6x ArP Red
9x Armor Yellow
9x AS Blue
3x AD Quint

Boots 3 pots.
4 boxes at red, run to wolves, 1 box at wolves, do them at 1:40. Have your AD hit red after boxes aggro'd them 2-3 times, do blue with a box+smite. Run to a lane, wait till a creep dies. You're now lvl 3 before anyone hit 2. Be an annoying fucker like you're supposed to.

Also: Shikyo real mad.
currently rooting for myself.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 07 2012 03:02 GMT
#2046
Ugh, I just peeked at those Viktor guides... the most voted for says that Death>Gravity because the range buff is basically useless and don't bring much?
That's so mind-bogglingly dumb my head hurts. Plus they assume you've got Power in their teamfighting pieces of advice while they advocate to never get it. Meh.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 07 2012 03:04 GMT
#2047
On January 07 2012 11:59 Zhiroo wrote:
I bought Udyr. I'm never gonna play another champion now.

Yeah, he's really fun, but I'm only gonna play him with friends. I can't play him with pubs, he needs a decent team with communication to work.


On January 07 2012 11:56 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

Should have bought Skarner instead, free teamfight victory every 80 seconds

Oh but about shaco, you basically just gank every lane nonstop and get kills and then build AP and solo baron at 15min and then use the baron buff to get like 10 kills and 2 inhibitors and they surrender at 20

I has Skarner, as my quote shows. He's fun, but I need a change.
It's your boy Guzma!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
January 07 2012 03:07 GMT
#2048
On January 07 2012 12:02 Alaric wrote:
Ugh, I just peeked at those Viktor guides... the most voted for says that Death>Gravity because the range buff is basically useless and don't bring much?
That's so mind-bogglingly dumb my head hurts. Plus they assume you've got Power in their teamfighting pieces of advice while they advocate to never get it. Meh.

I agree that the range upgrade doesn't really give much, it's still not going to be of much use unless the enemies jump on you, and only in the extremely rare circumstances where you're chasing but they're out of range of normal W but in range of the augmented W is it going to be useful.

It's much much more useful in my opinion to have all your spells increase in damage, with E becoming crazy strong.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 07 2012 03:08 GMT
#2049
On January 07 2012 12:00 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

3x AD Red
6x ArP Red
9x Armor Yellow
9x AS Blue
3x AD Quint

Boots 3 pots.
4 boxes at red, run to wolves, 1 box at wolves, do them at 1:40. Have your AD hit red after boxes aggro'd them 2-3 times, do blue with a box+smite. Run to a lane, wait till a creep dies. You're now lvl 3 before anyone hit 2. Be an annoying fucker like you're supposed to.

Also: Shikyo real mad.

That sounds complicated.... but insanely funny. Now I need to save for runes.
It's your boy Guzma!
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
January 07 2012 03:10 GMT
#2050
On January 07 2012 11:54 starfries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 11:41 Offhand wrote:
What are the best, most OP bullshit gank champions?

Time to rethink how ELO works. Playing carries when people don't even know to peel (or even what that is if you asked them) isn't going to get me out of 1100.

find someone who plays a good Sona, pick Tristana, always win bot lane, no peels necessary

I now know what peel means
+ Show Spoiler +
Getting yucky enemy champion skin off your banana carry.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:13:31
January 07 2012 03:11 GMT
#2051
On January 07 2012 12:08 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 12:00 Shiv. wrote:
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

3x AD Red
6x ArP Red
9x Armor Yellow
9x AS Blue
3x AD Quint

Boots 3 pots.
4 boxes at red, run to wolves, 1 box at wolves, do them at 1:40. Have your AD hit red after boxes aggro'd them 2-3 times, do blue with a box+smite. Run to a lane, wait till a creep dies. You're now lvl 3 before anyone hit 2. Be an annoying fucker like you're supposed to.

Also: Shikyo real mad.

That sounds complicated.... but insanely funny. Now I need to save for runes.

Actually pretty easy. You need to not derp when the game starts, get running as soon as possible and then you're golden.
For builds, it depends. Wriggles+Zerkers (Mobility boots are mad overrated on Shaco in my opinion, mainly due to his ult), I like to throw in an early Bruta for the ArP and CDR, then I go for Triforce. Phage -> Sheen -> Zeal. Ghostblade is an option, I don't like it, though. Then, build accordingly to their team.

this guide has helped me a lot understanding how to play and build Shaco, by the way.

It's outdated but the mindset it suggests still applies imo.
currently rooting for myself.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 07 2012 03:14 GMT
#2052
The slightly more standard shaco approach involves throwing 2 boxes at wolves and 3 in blue, then you pick up q. You can gank or go and kill the enemy jungle at their wraiths and red.

Or you can go ahead and do 5 boxes in red, smite big wraith and do wraiths while your boxes kill red for you and you can go ahead and gank with red.

Both approaches dont rely on your teammates, and allow for the most options afterwards. Red will give you a better gank, while blue has more disruption possibilities overall.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:18:29
January 07 2012 03:17 GMT
#2053
On January 07 2012 12:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
The slightly more standard shaco approach involves throwing 2 boxes at wolves and 3 in blue, then you pick up q. You can gank or go and kill the enemy jungle at their wraiths and red.

Or you can go ahead and do 5 boxes in red, smite big wraith and do wraiths while your boxes kill red for you and you can go ahead and gank with red.

Both approaches dont rely on your teammates, and allow for the most options afterwards. Red will give you a better gank, while blue has more disruption possibilities overall.

That's how it used to be in the old jungle, but why would you do that given the possibility to hit 3 with a doublebuff before anyone hits 2? I'm sincerely interested because I'm still trying to figure out the best opening in the new jungle and I have yet to find anything more convincing than what I suggested.

Edit: you don't get doublebuff later than their jungler gets his blue, you theoretically still have the option to just go fucking kill him. I don't see why you wouldn't do it.
currently rooting for myself.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
January 07 2012 03:17 GMT
#2054
So I guess everyone can universally agree with me that Skarner is pretty overpowered. But anyone who's played league for longer than I dunno, 2 months? Also knows that he was trash tier.

If he was to get nerfed; what is the best way to nerf him? I mean if Riot does something again it feels like he's gonna get back to that trash tier feeling.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
January 07 2012 03:20 GMT
#2055
On January 07 2012 12:11 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 12:08 Requizen wrote:
On January 07 2012 12:00 Shiv. wrote:
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

3x AD Red
6x ArP Red
9x Armor Yellow
9x AS Blue
3x AD Quint

Boots 3 pots.
4 boxes at red, run to wolves, 1 box at wolves, do them at 1:40. Have your AD hit red after boxes aggro'd them 2-3 times, do blue with a box+smite. Run to a lane, wait till a creep dies. You're now lvl 3 before anyone hit 2. Be an annoying fucker like you're supposed to.

Also: Shikyo real mad.

That sounds complicated.... but insanely funny. Now I need to save for runes.

Actually pretty easy. You need to not derp when the game starts, get running as soon as possible and then you're golden.
For builds, it depends. Wriggles+Zerkers (Mobility boots are mad overrated on Shaco in my opinion, mainly due to his ult), I like to throw in an early Bruta for the ArP and CDR, then I go for Triforce. Phage -> Sheen -> Zeal. Ghostblade is an option, I don't like it, though. Then, build accordingly to their team.

this guide has helped me a lot understanding how to play and build Shaco, by the way.

It's outdated but the mindset it suggests still applies imo.

Heh, the only thing that I thought felt complicated was box placement and timing. Something to get used to, I suppose.

Alright, say you don't have full AS blues. What's the fallout of that? Can I still pull off the jungle route?
It's your boy Guzma!
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:25:02
January 07 2012 03:23 GMT
#2056
On January 07 2012 12:20 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 12:11 Shiv. wrote:
On January 07 2012 12:08 Requizen wrote:
On January 07 2012 12:00 Shiv. wrote:
On January 07 2012 11:54 Requizen wrote:
Alright, Udyr is frustrating as hell. As annoying as he is fun. Sometimes, you run in and tank damage like a boss, stunning everything and shielding damage. The rest of the time, you realize you just get focused down because you're Udyr and you can't do anything other than run in a line and autoattack. Fun when it works, frustrating when it doesn't.

So I bought Shaco >.>

Teach me how to clown.

3x AD Red
6x ArP Red
9x Armor Yellow
9x AS Blue
3x AD Quint

Boots 3 pots.
4 boxes at red, run to wolves, 1 box at wolves, do them at 1:40. Have your AD hit red after boxes aggro'd them 2-3 times, do blue with a box+smite. Run to a lane, wait till a creep dies. You're now lvl 3 before anyone hit 2. Be an annoying fucker like you're supposed to.

Also: Shikyo real mad.

That sounds complicated.... but insanely funny. Now I need to save for runes.

Actually pretty easy. You need to not derp when the game starts, get running as soon as possible and then you're golden.
For builds, it depends. Wriggles+Zerkers (Mobility boots are mad overrated on Shaco in my opinion, mainly due to his ult), I like to throw in an early Bruta for the ArP and CDR, then I go for Triforce. Phage -> Sheen -> Zeal. Ghostblade is an option, I don't like it, though. Then, build accordingly to their team.

this guide has helped me a lot understanding how to play and build Shaco, by the way.

It's outdated but the mindset it suggests still applies imo.

Heh, the only thing that I thought felt complicated was box placement and timing. Something to get used to, I suppose.

Alright, say you don't have full AS blues. What's the fallout of that? Can I still pull off the jungle route?

You might need some help at wolves I guess, I don't really know since I have never tried it without them. I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect your initial jungle clear as much as your ganking, teamfight and splitpush presence, though.

Edit: You'll have box placement down after a game or two. It's really that easy. You have to take into account where the two little lizards spawn so your boxes aren't placed next to them but behind the big one and that's basically the most ''difficult'' thing to do about the whole route. At wolves, place the box right into them and wait outside of their cove for your box to fear them right in your direction.
currently rooting for myself.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
January 07 2012 03:24 GMT
#2057
Skarner

Attack Speed per level increased to 2.1% from 1.44%
Energize will no longer activate when attacking Towers.
Crystal Slash Mana cost decreased to 15 at all ranks from 22/24/26/28/30
Fracture will now heal Skarner if Fracture kills its target.
Impale duration increased to 1.75 from 1.5 seconds

Skarner
Crystal Slash: Physical Damage increased to 25/40/55/70/85 from 20/35/50/65/80
Crystal Slash: Magic Damage increased to 24/36/48/60/72 from 20/32/44/56/68
Fracture: Missile Speed increased to 1800 from 1600


These are the buffs that Skarner has had since he was considered trash tier, though he's been this strong for a few months now.

In my opinion they should just try changing the Q mana cost back to how it was and reducing the ulti duration back to 1.5

That should help in keeping his overall strenght pretty much the same but would reduce the "even-an-idiot-can-carry-with-him" factor he has.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
January 07 2012 03:26 GMT
#2058
On January 07 2012 12:17 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 12:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
The slightly more standard shaco approach involves throwing 2 boxes at wolves and 3 in blue, then you pick up q. You can gank or go and kill the enemy jungle at their wraiths and red.

Or you can go ahead and do 5 boxes in red, smite big wraith and do wraiths while your boxes kill red for you and you can go ahead and gank with red.

Both approaches dont rely on your teammates, and allow for the most options afterwards. Red will give you a better gank, while blue has more disruption possibilities overall.

That's how it used to be in the old jungle, but why would you do that given the possibility to hit 3 with a doublebuff before anyone hits 2? I'm sincerely interested because I'm still trying to figure out the best opening in the new jungle and I have yet to find anything more convincing than what I suggested.

Edit: you don't get doublebuff later than their jungler gets his blue, you theoretically still have the option to just go fucking kill him. I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

Reasons I dont like the double buff route-

1- It doesnt reset your red.
2- If they chose to invade anywhere, you are fucked because you have to secure your entire jungle, instead of just half.
3- It gives you a super huge power lull. You dont need double buffs at level 2 to get a kill. You just need one. Blue lets you attempt multiple ganks, while red increases the chances of your individual gank, but hurts the overall clear. If you get both at level 1, you have a 2 minute window where you HAVE to make something happen. If you dont you are going to be behind the enemy jungle because they will be buffed for longer than you will. But instead if you spread the buffs a bit you can prolong your jungle speed (blue) or increase your gank power (red) without wasting either one.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-07 03:30:51
January 07 2012 03:30 GMT
#2059
earlygame on shaco it works like this

blue is the super powerful farm/counterjungle buff

red is the super powerful gank buff

I don't see the point in taking both, and then wasting one of the two (blue if you gank, red if you farm). If you take double buff at level one i feel you should head into the enemy jungle asap
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
January 07 2012 03:32 GMT
#2060
On January 07 2012 12:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2012 12:17 Shiv. wrote:
On January 07 2012 12:14 Two_DoWn wrote:
The slightly more standard shaco approach involves throwing 2 boxes at wolves and 3 in blue, then you pick up q. You can gank or go and kill the enemy jungle at their wraiths and red.

Or you can go ahead and do 5 boxes in red, smite big wraith and do wraiths while your boxes kill red for you and you can go ahead and gank with red.

Both approaches dont rely on your teammates, and allow for the most options afterwards. Red will give you a better gank, while blue has more disruption possibilities overall.

That's how it used to be in the old jungle, but why would you do that given the possibility to hit 3 with a doublebuff before anyone hits 2? I'm sincerely interested because I'm still trying to figure out the best opening in the new jungle and I have yet to find anything more convincing than what I suggested.

Edit: you don't get doublebuff later than their jungler gets his blue, you theoretically still have the option to just go fucking kill him. I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

Reasons I dont like the double buff route-

1- It doesnt reset your red.
2- If they chose to invade anywhere, you are fucked because you have to secure your entire jungle, instead of just half.
3- It gives you a super huge power lull. You dont need double buffs at level 2 to get a kill. You just need one. Blue lets you attempt multiple ganks, while red increases the chances of your individual gank, but hurts the overall clear. If you get both at level 1, you have a 2 minute window where you HAVE to make something happen. If you dont you are going to be behind the enemy jungle because they will be buffed for longer than you will. But instead if you spread the buffs a bit you can prolong your jungle speed (blue) or increase your gank power (red) without wasting either one.

Thanks for the elaboration, it really makes sense. I have been pretty successful so far. I usually have the moment of surprise because no one seems to expect it and that generally puts me ahead. The way I see it, Shaco is a high risk high reward type of champ anyway. I like going all out aggressive on him and this route allows the most possible early game domination. I see where you're coming from though and your arguments are perfectly reasonable. Thanks.
currently rooting for myself.
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