On December 01 2011 07:27 MoonBear wrote: You were complaining about a loss and not much else. We have a thread where you can vent out losses. There's also a big warning at the top of the thread. Not sure how people miss it.
I didn't miss the message, nor did I post that loss with the intent of complaining. I wanted to point out how my opponents were losing in kills even though it was 4v5. If a comment about the general skill level of players at a certain elo is considered complaining about a loss then iono...
Pretty simple, 4v5 doesn't make all your lanes invincible and having only 4 players on a team means you can only kill 4 and not 5.
Man, I miss the old jungle. This game's early counterjungling really reflects why the old jungle was awesome and should be implemented back in. It's nothing superspecial, I just think it really shows old jungling was based on a given amount of information and using them to your advance. Sona CVs (another great thing I liked better before) Lee at blue, Rammus takes his wraiths and doublegolems. And actually COUNTERS him unlike now. I miss the old jungle. It's a pretty good game anyways, you guys should watch it.
BTW: if Talon ults, does Janna's Ult still push him away, even w/o Oracles?
On December 01 2011 07:25 Cloud9157 wrote: So can someone explain to me how Volibear is considered a tank?
He just seems like another Singed to me, minus the poison trail. Same way to initiate as Singed: Run at them and hope you get to fling a squishy/carry.
He gains damage by stacking health, his passive also adds pretty powerful tankiness. He might only get to hard-cc one thing by running at it, but he also aoe slows and does pretty hefty damage without damage items, but scales poorly with offensive stats. all properties of a Tank / Tanky DPS (semantics)
On December 01 2011 07:25 Cloud9157 wrote: So can someone explain to me how Volibear is considered a tank?
He just seems like another Singed to me, minus the poison trail. Same way to initiate as Singed: Run at them and hope you get to fling a squishy/carry.
He gains damage by stacking health, his passive also adds pretty powerful tankiness. He might only get to hard-cc one thing by running at it, but he also aoe slows and does pretty hefty damage without damage items, but scales poorly with offensive stats. all properties of a Tank / Tanky DPS (semantics)
Basically there is no difference between tank and tanky dps, by saying he is similar to singed implies that you, too, consider him a tank.
At this point in lol, if you build health and mitigation, you do a ton of damage simply by spamming skills and being alive. See leona, amumu, malphite, even tree.
If you do not build health and mitigation, then you are a support.
On December 01 2011 05:58 epoc wrote: Is there anything anivia can do against leblanc? She pretty much just used 2 spells on me at lv3 and then I had to go back because the next combo would have killed me. Then she did the combo again. Had to go back. Then I'm 3 levels underleveled and can't do anything
health potions?????
salce started 13 pots vs Regi's leblanc at MLG
And Salce still fed a little bit. But he didn't feed HARD, and still got farm, and Regi's Leblanc was struggling to finish off kills in a way that a properly fed LeBonk shouldn't be, and ended up not being really powerful.
Also an early Null magic mant (build it into a chalice, I guess?) can go a LONG way.
Deltablazy, we have a QQ thread for that.
Why do you guys post games without links to their vods TT
Man, I miss the old jungle. This game's early counterjungling really reflects why the old jungle was awesome and should be implemented back in. It's nothing superspecial, I just think it really shows old jungling was based on a given amount of information and using them to your advance. Sona CVs (another great thing I liked better before) Lee at blue, Rammus takes his wraiths and doublegolems. And actually COUNTERS him unlike now. I miss the old jungle. It's a pretty good game anyways, you guys should watch it.
BTW: if Talon ults, does Janna's Ult still push him away, even w/o Oracles?
Janna's ult isn't targeted. So yes it works on stealthed enemies.
On December 01 2011 06:56 Shiragaku wrote: Did the Jungle Hotfixes go in yet?
Just tested, no.
wait are there going to be jungle hotfixes/and what o.o
The new jungle isn't THAT bad, I've played 5 games now as Phoenix Udyr, and i've been level 4 by ~3:47 every game, and usually level 6 by ~7:00 , which is pretty standard to the old jungle prior to the mastery changes. It is annoying to relearn, and is certainly not better, but it isn't as horrible as people are making it out to be.
Last game, their team didn't have a jungle, and with the recent xp boosts and nerf in health, farming the other teams buffs seems stronger than before. Taking their red/blue is ridiculously easy and rewarding I managed to farm 2k gold and level 8 before going back. Ganking does cost more than before, so no more camping in their bushes waiting for an opportunity, I just run up and immediately commit, and just hope the person in lane gives me support.
Boots/3 is more or less a necessity now in the jungle, since moving between camps is is where you spend most of your time.
On December 01 2011 07:25 Cloud9157 wrote: So can someone explain to me how Volibear is considered a tank?
He just seems like another Singed to me, minus the poison trail. Same way to initiate as Singed: Run at them and hope you get to fling a squishy/carry.
He gains damage by stacking health, his passive also adds pretty powerful tankiness. He might only get to hard-cc one thing by running at it, but he also aoe slows and does pretty hefty damage without damage items, but scales poorly with offensive stats. all properties of a Tank / Tanky DPS (semantics)
Basically there is no difference between tank and tanky dps, by saying he is similar to singed implies that you, too, consider him a tank.
At this point in lol, if you build health and mitigation, you do a ton of damage simply by spamming skills and being alive. See leona, amumu, malphite, even tree.
If you do not build health and mitigation, then you are a support.
That's pretty much what I'm saying too - the difference people draw between Tank and Tanky DPS is really kinda silly. Some tanks bring less damage more CC to the table, others bring more straight up damage and less CC.
On December 01 2011 06:56 Shiragaku wrote: Did the Jungle Hotfixes go in yet?
Just tested, no.
wait are there going to be jungle hotfixes/and what o.o
The new jungle isn't THAT bad, I've played 5 games now as Phoenix Udyr, and i've been level 4 by ~3:47 every game, and usually level 6 by ~7:00 , which is pretty standard to the old jungle prior to the mastery changes. It is annoying to relearn, and is certainly not better, but it isn't as horrible as people are making it out to be.
Last game, their team didn't have a jungle, and with the recent xp boosts and nerf in health, farming the other teams buffs seems stronger than before. Taking their red/blue is ridiculously easy and rewarding I managed to farm 2k gold and level 8 before going back. Ganking does cost more than before, so no more camping in their bushes waiting for an opportunity, I just run up and immediately commit, and just hope the person in lane gives me support.
Boots/3 is more or less a necessity now in the jungle, since moving between camps is is where you spend most of your time.
Phoenix Udyr is in the AoE farm zone with Skarner/Shyv/Malphite. They're like the only ones not dramatically weakened by the new jungle. Usually one game as him as an example shows little understanding of the problems of the jungle changes.
The new jungle seems really hit-or-miss, in my opinion. I either have games where I get off to a decent start, and it feels like good ol' jungling, or I get off to a less-than-optimal start and the game crumbles fast. I end up lower level than duo lane depending on how badly the first little while goes. My success seems very dependent on making the first gank or two count. This isn't really so bad considering how much flexibility there is in pathing with the new jungle. I'm looking forward to the gold and XP tweaks. I think jungling will be a lot more unpredictable and a lot less linear.
On December 01 2011 06:56 Shiragaku wrote: Did the Jungle Hotfixes go in yet?
Just tested, no.
wait are there going to be jungle hotfixes/and what o.o
The new jungle isn't THAT bad, I've played 5 games now as Phoenix Udyr, and i've been level 4 by ~3:47 every game, and usually level 6 by ~7:00 , which is pretty standard to the old jungle prior to the mastery changes. It is annoying to relearn, and is certainly not better, but it isn't as horrible as people are making it out to be.
Last game, their team didn't have a jungle, and with the recent xp boosts and nerf in health, farming the other teams buffs seems stronger than before. Taking their red/blue is ridiculously easy and rewarding I managed to farm 2k gold and level 8 before going back. Ganking does cost more than before, so no more camping in their bushes waiting for an opportunity, I just run up and immediately commit, and just hope the person in lane gives me support.
Boots/3 is more or less a necessity now in the jungle, since moving between camps is is where you spend most of your time.
Phoenix Udyr is in the AoE farm zone with Skarner/Shyv/Malphite. They're like the only ones not dramatically weakened by the new jungle. Usually one game as him as an example shows little understanding of the problems of the jungle changes.
5 games, but I agree it isn't indicative of the overall health of the jungle. The problems posed by AoE champion clear times isn't unique to the current jungle. The old jungle had big problems with the AoE champions like Udyr, Skarner, and Shyv. Since the camps respawned slower they couldn't as dramatically out level single target junglers like GP and Trundle by as much, but they could exert much more presence onto the map, as well as take advantage of counter-jungling opportunities.
With the new jungle, the speed benefit of AoE junglers compounds on itself, meaning faster junglers gain gold and xp exponentially faster, which is a problem, but it isn't as big of an issue as it is being made out to be.
What I would like changed is for the jungle creeps to take reduced damage from AoE abilities, just like Yorick's ghouls. This will slow down Shyv, Skarner, and Udyr, while leveling the field for other potential junglers. I really want Poppy to be able to jungle, just because of how amazing her counter jungling and roaming is.
New jungle is pretty bad. Unless you're Udyr/Skarner/Shyvana you're fucked because moving around to gank or even to get to camps rob you of xp/gold since camp rewards start so damn small (other than buff camps). There's also no such thing as counter-jungling since trying to do so gimps you more than it gimps your opponent. I just played a Udyr v. Skarner game where the Skarner tried so hard to counterjungle and gank while I basically just afk farmed my jungle, only ganking when a lane I'm close to is super overextended. By 15 minutes I had 2 levels and probably 1k+ gold on him and the rest of the game was easy since it was basically 5v4.
The foundation of the jungle rework is completely bullshit imo. Riot wants junglers to have to gank to keep up, but can farm jungle to catch up. Ganks aren't going to succeed at high enough elo. Heck, at 1500 people start to ward and ganking already becomes like 50-60% success rate as opposed to 1200 elo where every gank is a kill.
I think the big things are just a slight increase on gold and exp to make up for the fact you have to waste more time walking aound or reduce the punishment of missing a gank, and for them to do a few more adjustments on wriggles/madreds to help make it better for single target junglers.
Like IMO increasing the proc % on wriggles/madreds would basically fix this. Its a nerf for laning (cuz it would auto push lane) while at the same time not actually be useful for aoe clearers since they dont build wriggles anyway.
On December 01 2011 08:52 Two_DoWn wrote: I think the big things are just a slight increase on gold and exp to make up for the fact you have to waste more time walking aound or reduce the punishment of missing a gank, and for them to do a few more adjustments on wriggles/madreds to help make it better for single target junglers.
Like IMO increasing the proc % on wriggles/madreds would basically fix this. Its a nerf for laning (cuz it would auto push lane) while at the same time not actually be useful for aoe clearers since they dont build wriggles anyway.
Edit-oooh look, I'm a scout.
And even if you did build a wriggle on an aoe-clearer, it wouldn't boost your speed by as much as it does for single-target clearers, since you'd still probably be aoeing the small things down after proccing down the big thing. Or you'd be meleeing one small wraith to aoe the other two, and they'd still basically all die within a moment of each other.
EPT
