EPTjungle creeps try to kill you by yelling RETARD OMFG IDIOT YOU FUCKING CUNT LEAVE OUR JUNGLE and then you kill them.
[Patch 1.0.0.130: Volibear] General Discussion - Page 38
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
jungle creeps try to kill you by yelling RETARD OMFG IDIOT YOU FUCKING CUNT LEAVE OUR JUNGLE and then you kill them. | ||
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seRapH
United States9761 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:28 seRapH wrote: there's jungling in hon and dota? it's much more optional and teamcomp dependent in DotA. Don't know much about HoN but I imagine it'd be the same. DotA lane setups are more variable and dependent on what you're trying to accomplish. There's standard 2-1-2, then there's 1-2-2, trilane, 1-1-2 with jungle, etc... Generally if you run a jungler in DotA it's because you have Chen/Enchantress/Enigma/etc... and your other lanes are strong enough to hold their own. Getting a jungler helps you control jungle camps (who give a very nice amount of gold/exp but tend to be too strong for most low-level heroes to solo) and you also have the chance to get some nice ganks off. it's optional in DotA because there are no buffs that need to be controlled in the jungle, just gold/exp which can be controlled by good support players if needed. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
Don't know about HoN, never bothered. DotA has trilanes with a hypercarry in them who gets the jungle mobs pulled every now and then. At least that's what it used to be like when I left, which was quite a while ago. I honestly have no clue what it is like nowadays. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:34 Shiv. wrote: Don't know about HoN, never bothered. DotA has trilanes with a hypercarry in them who gets the jungle mobs pulled every now and then. At least that's what it used to be like when I left, which was quite a while ago. I honestly have no clue what it is like nowadays. It depends. Jungling is not required, but there are certain heroes which you're much more likely to run in the jungle than out. Furion, Chen, Enchantress, Enigma, Lycan are the ones that are probably most relevant. On December 01 2011 04:31 Parnage wrote: A friend of mine explained that with the exception of chen and a few others. Jungle in Dota is like low level jungle in League, ie not thar until 30 minutes in or so. I could be wrong or have misheard him but I feel that's a fairly accurate description. Jungle is definitely relevant before 30 minutes. Even if you don't have a jungler, your short lane should be stacking/pulling to control the creep waves from the very beginning of the game. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:34 JackDino wrote: http://siyobik.info/misc/ad-vs-arp-runes.pdf Dunno if this has been posted yet but there's been a discussion about doublelift using AD reds a while ago. Thing is, you buy LW sooner than normal if you wish to run AD reds. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:43 Sponkz wrote: Thing is, you buy LW sooner than normal if you wish to run AD reds. You're still not going to buy LW before you have a BF item (IE/BT). With that much AD, ArPen reds are still a larger damage increase than AD reds, because ArPen multiplies your AD-based damage, while AD increases are additive. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Craton
United States17251 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:46 Seuss wrote: Not even "sooner than normal", if you're carrying you're bound to get LW at some point unless the enemy team stupidly refuses to build any armor or if your team is just rolling. Ignoring LW (and the 10% mastery) is a mistake. You can re-run the numbers yourself if you want, but within reasonable values, ArPen marks are still better than AD reds. Even with higher armor, and with LW in the equation, AD reds aren't going to be able to close a gap of like 20 AD (that gets bigger if you buy more AD). It's worth running AD quints a lot of the time, but that's because AD quints are significantly more cost-effective than AD marks in terms of how much ArPen you're giving up. The thing is, ArPen multiplies any additional AD you buy, where AD is just additive. Even if your ArPen is only worth ~4% damage increase (which is about how much 15 ArPen is worth against a target with 200 Armor, when you have both LW and the mastery), at 250 AD that's the equivalent of having 10 extra AD (more than what you get from AD marks). | ||
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rredtooth
5460 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:48 Craton wrote: xPeke has been running ad carry with flash heal all day with pretty good success in ranked 5s (with what I think is the spanish WCG team). ranked 5s es serious business. unless you mean ranked teams which might eventually become serious business for reals. | ||
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
holy shit, jungle shaco secret OP | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:51 redtooth wrote: ranked 5s es serious business. unless you mean ranked teams which might eventually become serious business for reals. EU ranked 5's more competitive than US. See the top EU teams on stream use it as their main source of practice as a team as opposed to scrims. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:48 TheYango wrote: You can re-run the numbers yourself if you want, but within reasonable values, ArPen marks are still better than AD reds. Even with higher armor, and with LW in the equation, AD reds aren't going to be able to close a gap of like 20 AD (that gets bigger if you buy more AD). It's worth running AD quints a lot of the time, but that's because AD quints are significantly more cost-effective than AD marks in terms of how much ArPen you're giving up. The thing is, ArPen multiplies any additional AD you buy, where AD is just additive. Even if your ArPen is only worth ~4% damage increase (which is about how much 15 ArPen is worth against a target with 200 Armor, when you have both LW and the mastery), at 250 AD that's the equivalent of having 10 AD. I`ve honestly come to the conclusion that the difference in damage between AD marks and armor pen marks to be of little difference in the overall scheme of things, and that while armor pen marks theoretically gives a little more damage mathematically, that goes out the window if the 9AD results in you getting a couple more cs (which can happen at any level really) | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On December 01 2011 05:00 JackDino wrote: Thing is, you should get the same cs with or without 9 AD. AP mids don't run AD for more cs do they. But this is a completely idealized scenario, and frankly is a terribly bad argument from the onset because even having more flexibility in how you want to last-hit can provide certain advantages that a slight boost in damage can't. If there really was a significant impact on your damage from taking AD red, then it would be a no-brainer, but the thing is, there isn't. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:57 Juicyfruit wrote: I`ve honestly come to the conclusion that the difference in damage between AD marks and armor pen marks to be of little difference in the overall scheme of things, and that while armor pen marks theoretically gives a little more damage mathematically, that goes out the window if the 9AD results in you getting a couple more cs (which can happen at any level really) I mean, the gap between ArPen and AD marks is like 10-15 AD at its widest point on that graph. That's the amount of AD on a Long Sword, which is WAY more than just "a couple more cs". The only reasons to run flat AD marks are to either optimize jungling speed on certain junglers, for champs that double-dip on AD for other reasons (Jax, Akali), or for champs that do AD-scaling magic damage (Udyr, Yorick). On physical damage AD champs like AD carries, ArPen marks do more damage at pretty much all stages of the game (the only exceptions being super-early game if your lane opponent only came to lane with base armor, and super-late game if the opponent is buying armor faster than you're buying AD). At the very least, if you're using AD marks, you should know that the only reason to do so is for last-hitting. The "LW makes flat ArPen worth less" argument is flawed, because in terms of straight damage, the ArPen marks are STILL worth more damage even at the point where you have LW. | ||
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Cylon
United States124 Posts
On December 01 2011 04:51 emucxg wrote: holy shit, jungle shaco secret OP I called it like 10 pages ago. | ||
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