EPThttp://www.playdota.com/forums/7993/article-pseudo-random-distribution/
read this if you want to know everything about it.
[Patch 1.0.0.128: Shyvana] General Discussion - Page 58
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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
http://www.playdota.com/forums/7993/article-pseudo-random-distribution/ read this if you want to know everything about it. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:37 Juicyfruit wrote: Wait, I didn't know about this. Is there any more detail? Shouldn't you just purposely engage after a long series of no-crit, or engage right after your opponent gets a random crit? It isn't worth abusing. You could theoretically get an ashe passive on anybody doing it, but is that really worth the effort? | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 04 2011 05:09 Mogwai wrote: what? they're comparable to AD Quints in stats per slot. hurm. I remember someone pretty much proving to me on here that I should swap out my AS quints for pen quints. How selective my memory is, lol, I guess I just retroactively remembered it being a stats per gold thing... but it isn't, you're right. | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:50 UniversalSnip wrote: It's not the same as the wc3 RNG where you can save a crit. I don't know that anyone knows the algorithm outside of riot but I remember xypherous posting that they'd set it up differently from wc3 specifically to avoid scenarios where you could manipulate your crit/etc chance. They used a different algorithm. It's not exactly the same as the WC3 one, but it's the same concept. Anyway, who wants to see Zileas talk about designing games? Here, have a video. http://gdcvault.com/play/1015033/Designers-are-Human-Too-Causes | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:57 Node wrote: How does one go about learning to counter-jungle? Is it just a matter of learning the standard paths for each champion, and which starting items indicate which path? Beyond the opening, is it just figuring out where he is (whether by ward, cv, or gank attempt) and hitting somewhere else? Or should I just go with the tried-and-true starcraft method of picking a random timing, trying it, and seeing if it works? - knowing "standard" jungle patterns for what the enemy jungler has chosen (this is probably king, e.g. if I'm Udyr and enemy jungler GP start at Blue, I can go Wolves, Blue, enemy Wraith in time before GP can finish Blue + Wolves.) - knowing the presence and how pushed the two adjacent lanes are to where you're invading in (if enemy team collapses on you, are your allies healthy and in position to invade to help defend you?) - how quickly you can steal a camp (Rammus stealing Wraiths, np. Shaco stealing Wraiths, probably not ideal) - wards + CV (seeing Purple side jungler top means it's probably very safe for you to steal Wolves or even Dargon) | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:52 UniversalSnip wrote: hurm. I remember someone pretty much proving to me on here that I should swap out my AS quints for pen quints. How selective my memory is, lol, I guess I just retroactively remembered it being a stats per gold thing... but it isn't, you're right. If you're going with the 12 arp rest as on reds and quints, then it's worth getting pen quints instead of AS. Think you gain abit more AS from doing that than the other way around. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:57 Node wrote: How does one go about learning to counter-jungle? Is it just a matter of learning the standard paths for each champion, and which starting items indicate which path? Beyond the opening, is it just figuring out where he is (whether by ward, cv, or gank attempt) and hitting somewhere else? Or should I just go with the tried-and-true starcraft method of picking a random timing, trying it, and seeing if it works? Counter Jungling is generally a reactive process. There isn't going to be a timing that works every game (although there are timings that are incredibly common to hit). For example, I pretty much exclusively jungle Udyr and I do Wolves -> Blue -> Wraiths. If I know the enemy started blue without killing wolves I'll go take his wraiths because I can clear them before he gets over there (since he'll clear wolves). I will also do this if he started at my wraiths because he'll still be clearing his wolves. If he started at minis I'll just go take my own wraiths though because it's risky (if he goes for a level 2 gank I might get away with it, but generally not worth the risk). You do counter jungling based on their position. If you know their blue just respawned (just after 7 minutes the second blue will be spawning if they started at blue) so if you see them watching a lane go steal their blue since they won't be able to retaliate. If you see them covering bottom and you're close to their wraiths/minis go take them. The biggest part about counter jungling is travel time and safety. It's generally not worth it to go halfway across the map to counter jungle. If you're not already close to the objective you want to steal don't even bother (exceptions apply, buffs are worth stealing almost always and if there's absolutely nothing else for you to take go ahead). If your team isn't going to support your counter jungling it can be incredibly risky to try it. If you get caught you'll likely die to it becomes a loss in the end. Weighing the opportunity costs of counter jungling is very challenging. Just because you can steal somebodies wraiths doesn't mean it's the most efficient use of your time at that moment. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:57 Node wrote: How does one go about learning to counter-jungle? Is it just a matter of learning the standard paths for each champion, and which starting items indicate which path? Beyond the opening, is it just figuring out where he is (whether by ward, cv, or gank attempt) and hitting somewhere else? Or should I just go with the tried-and-true starcraft method of picking a random timing, trying it, and seeing if it works? Oftentimes, if you're just trying to look for shit that's up when he's not there, you're not going to get that many openings--this is especially true of many popular junglers right now like Udyr and Rammus that can basically keep their shit cleared the vast majority of the time and still have plenty of time to gank and do whatever they want. Depending on the matchup you may try to counterjungle through getting the camps he can't respond to, or against many junglers you may have to take a more aggressive approach of just contesting their buffs/camps even when you know they're there. TheOddOne does this almost every game on Lee Sin, particularly vs. junglers like Rammus and Udyr--Udyr is too fast to outright steal Wraiths from, but Lee Sin's comparative strength in 1v1ing him at level 2 allows him to just go and battle it out with him at wraiths. The risk of this is that it's somewhat dependent on how your mid matchup plays out and how the player mid handles the situation (if you have a poor mid matchup, or your player mid is bad, you might get 2v1ed without them responding). Honestly, as much as you can try to put theory to it, there are so many relevant variables (what you can get away with not only depends on the two junglers in question, but also the champions in the adjacent lanes and how they're doing), that it comes down to a lot of practice and seeing what certain junglers are capable of against other junglers. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 04 2011 08:57 Node wrote: How does one go about learning to counter-jungle? Is it just a matter of learning the standard paths for each champion, and which starting items indicate which path? Beyond the opening, is it just figuring out where he is (whether by ward, cv, or gank attempt) and hitting somewhere else? Or should I just go with the tried-and-true starcraft method of picking a random timing, trying it, and seeing if it works? Counterjungling is not something you can learn until you master the jungle routes of every jungle. You need to know the enemy path, their speed relative to yours, and how well you can handle 1v1 or 1v2 if things go poorly. However, most of the time counterjungling simply isnt worth it. You lose just as much time and exp by wandering around to their jungle as you steal from them. I know saint has stated multiple times that you should only counterjungle at level 1, then go back and do a full clear+ before attempting to actually steal multiple camps. But the best way to learn to counterjungle is simply to jungle A LOT and learn the timings of each champ and how you can exploit those timings. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14105 Posts
I met a guy today who played hon. He was a dick. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 04 2011 07:29 Craton wrote: Are you actually sure you can crit anything beyond the primary target? The wording suggests otherwise. Absolutely certain that you can AoE Crit. The first hit works *exactly* like twitch ulti. The second hit simply applies on hit effects. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2011 09:06 Two_DoWn wrote: However, most of the time counterjungling simply isnt worth it. You lose just as much time and exp by wandering around to their jungle as you steal from them. I know saint has stated multiple times that you should only counterjungle at level 1, then go back and do a full clear+ before attempting to actually steal multiple camps. Even this is very matchup-dependent. Junglers that have good baseline utility or don't scale up well anyway can afford to give up their own farm to impair the development of better-scaling junglers or junglers that need levels/gold to impact the game. This is part of the strength of Nunu's counterjungle. He can afford to sacrifice levels on himself to screw up the enemy jungle because late-game Nunu is a defensive support anyway--farm on Nunu does less than farm on basically any other jungler. In solo queue it's almost never worth it because you can't expect your teammates to take advantage of the fact that you put their jungler behind at the cost of your own development. Putting yourself behind is often just going to impair your ability to influence fights midgame because you're behind. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On November 04 2011 09:06 Two_DoWn wrote: But the best way to learn to counterjungle is simply to jungle A LOT and learn the timings of each champ and how you can exploit those timings. This; additionally, I found playing support and practicing timings w/CV + ward coverage gave me a better overall sense/feel for counterjungling when I went back to playing junglers, as I wasn't so focused on my own jungle. | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
However, a more interesting piece of news is that his name has been change to MiG Locodoco Is that a Korean team? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On November 04 2011 09:19 Abenson wrote: Locodoco is now in the top 10 for premade 5v5's :D However, a more interesting piece of news is that his name has been change to MiG Locodoco Is that a Korean team? yes. They've been scrimming with the NA teams recently as well. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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