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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
i think if they nerfed graves it would help too lol. his burst is too ridiculous right now.. but yeah his skillset seems op.. his dash or w/e is so functional it's way better than cait's net.. way way better.. and then his burst is better if he can close the distance so thats real dumb. and don't even get me started on the smoke screen | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
Caitlyn is an example of an AD damage nuke done well, it has a channel time so the use of her ulti and q is situational. Late game you lose out on damage if you sit there and channel while a team fight is going on. Graves can jump in, instantly use r and q, deal pretty much 1K AD damage and then continue using his auto attack to deal even more damage. | ||
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
2 crazy op champs on release in a row, the guys on a roll XD. Oh well, I'll be honest I appreciate it more than crap like release yorick/skarner/karma/cass etc. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On October 24 2011 04:35 OreoBoi wrote: The problem with characters like lee sin and graves is that they have high damage, good scaling, and no cast time AD nukes. AD character should not have skills that nuke people because their auto-attack damage also does good damage. Lee sin has a +2.0 bonus AD ratio on a 600 dmg skill and graves has a +1.4 bonus AD ratio on a 500 damage skill. Caitlyn is an example of an AD damage nuke done well, it has a channel time so the use of her ulti and q is situational. Late game you lose out on damage if you sit there and channel while a team fight is going on. Graves can jump in, instantly use r and q, deal pretty much 1K AD damage and then continue using his auto attack to deal even more damage. Look at jarvans ratio they are the level of lee sin and less punishing. (lee sin missed q does nothing, e can be missed and R can save people) | ||
739
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On October 24 2011 04:37 Hakker wrote: Funny story, the guy that designed rumble also designed graves (FeralPony) 2 crazy op champs on release in a row, the guys on a roll XD. Oh well, I'll be honest I appreciate it more than crap like release yorick/skarner/karma/cass etc. Leave Cass alone ! | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
It's a steroid that's almost as good as Tristana's Q, that's also a Vayne tumble that can actually hop walls, and it reduces it's own cd by autoattackign. How retarded is that -.- | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On October 24 2011 04:49 Ryuu314 wrote: The most retarded thing about Grave's kit is imo his E. It's a steroid that's almost as good as Tristana's Q, that's also a Vayne tumble that can actually hop walls, and it reduces it's own cd by autoattackign. How retarded is that -.- Greaves' e is better than tristanas q because it is up permanently at level 18 with a PD. | ||
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
On October 24 2011 04:37 Hakker wrote: Funny story, the guy that designed rumble also designed graves (FeralPony) 2 crazy op champs on release in a row, the guys on a roll XD. Oh well, I'll be honest I appreciate it more than crap like release yorick/skarner/karma/cass etc. Well, Rumble was op for sure before could 1v2 anyone almost at any time. Funny thing was that not many people played him and it took a very long time for people to actually realize how op he was. Graves, how many days has it been now, and I see him in every game I play EU East quite high ELO, either instabanned or instapicked. That must speak for something how easy and how op he is now and WILL become in the near future. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 24 2011 04:51 Two_DoWn wrote: Greaves' e is better than tristanas q because it is up permanently at level 18 with a PD. well, in terms of raw aspd steroid (90% v 80%) it's slightly worse, but overall, it's definitely better than trist's Q for sure | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
Why would he almost entirely scale with AD (like Riven or Talon recently) when skills like Tristana's scale all with AP ? A bunch of skills that should scale with AD: All Tristana's skills, Cait's traps and net, Ashe's Arrow, Corki's Q and W, Ez's W and E, GP's ult, Jarvan's Shield, Kog's Q and E, MF's E and Ult, etc, etc... Riot really needs to rework most of these skills. Or they want their new champs to be OP, so that they sell more Bundles... | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
Jeez I haven't been paying attention to any of the Canadian scene... Having played with Onionbagel and Jpak, I would argue that together as a team they are friggin crazy, but Jpak on his own never seemed all that amazing to me... Ah well. Best of luck to you guys! Honestly would love to see a crazy upset. Anyone know where this is going to be streamed? (Still would love to see TL back where it used to be one of these days...  ) | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
just Ez for example deals way more damage than graves. Kog and vayne are both still the scarriest lategame carries. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
and when we talk about AoE damage then you completely forget that its all close range while other ad carries like mf, ezreal, ashe, corki can use their ults from a much safer position, hell some of them are even global. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
He takes no damage, and if he feels like it he jumps in Cait's face and nukes her. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 24 2011 06:09 clickrush wrote: tristana has a bigger jump, like double the auto range of graves and her knockback keeps her even more safe, while graves' disable is much more situational and sometimes even gimmicky. nidalee can permanently leap while graves has to auto to get the cooldown that low which will slow him down. much easyer to catch a graves than to catch a nidalee. vayne is also better at kiting if iam not mistaken. and when we talk about AoE damage then you completely forget that its all close range while other ad carries like mf, ezreal, ashe, corki can use their ults from a much safer position, hell some of them are even global. None of those ults hit nearly as hard as Graves. Maybe MF's ult if you stand in it the whole time, Graves' is just one giant burst. His Q is also really damn strong AoE damage if he just jumps in and hits everyone with it. Ranged AD generally specialize in Burst (like Ez), Auto (Trist/Cait/Vayne/Kog), Mobility (Vayne, maybe Ez), AoE (MF and Corki), or Utility (Ashe). Cait and Kog lack burst, Ezreal (and others) lack utility, Kog and Ashe lack mobility. Graves has all fields (Burst with Q/R, Auto with E, Mobility with E, Utility with W, and AoE with Q/R) with none being weaker than any other. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
On October 24 2011 06:18 spinesheath wrote: I'm pretty sure Graves does well vs Cait in lane. He takes no damage, and if he feels like it he jumps in Cait's face and nukes her. Graves has 1 option vs Cait in lane. Push the lane harder than she does. If you are any kind of smart with traps as cait its practicly a free kill as you have almost 200 range on him. Play agressive recieve money. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
Trist's base ASP (according to lolwikia) is 0.658 and gains 3.01%/lvl Graves' is 0.638 + 2.9%/lvl Trist also has a lot more utility. The healing debuff is pretty huge against teams with healing supports (especially soraka). Rocket jump is arguably better for engaging and escaping fights (as it travels much further and slows on impact) | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
On October 24 2011 06:19 Requizen wrote: None of those ults hit nearly as hard as Graves. Maybe MF's ult if you stand in it the whole time, Graves' is just one giant burst. His Q is also really damn strong AoE damage if he just jumps in and hits everyone with it. Ranged AD generally specialize in Burst (like Ez), Auto (Trist/Cait/Vayne/Kog), Mobility (Vayne, maybe Ez), AoE (MF and Corki), or Utility (Ashe). Cait and Kog lack burst, Ezreal (and others) lack utility, Kog and Ashe lack mobility. Graves has all fields (Burst with Q/R, Auto with E, Mobility with E, Utility with W, and AoE with Q/R) with none being weaker than any other. Are you saying that his auto attack damage output is anywhere in the realm of vayne, kogmaw, or even tristana? You're just exaggerating to make a really bad point. Graves is a lot more durable ranged character, that can take advantage of that durability and get in close and deal damage. His numbers on his ult might be a little high, but nothing else seems overly strong in its own right. | ||
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ninjakingcola
United States405 Posts
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