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[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 26

Forum Index > LoL General
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Zhiroo
Profile Joined February 2011
Kosovo2724 Posts
October 20 2011 14:15 GMT
#501
So I set 2 triple kills to a Graves with arrow and he threatens to go afk after I kill a Skarner that I was chasing because I ks'ed it. Man kids annoy the hell outta me sometimes. Especially the ones that go 'omg ks i go afk now bye'

User was warned for this post
LoL EuW: Zhiroo - By starting this squabble you've proven nothing but how vast your stupidity is.
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
October 20 2011 14:24 GMT
#502
On October 20 2011 13:13 overt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 13:06 gtrsrs wrote:
On October 20 2011 13:03 sermokala wrote:
SV has been doing skarner constantly in jungle on his stream and pretty good at it I think. HSGG found wukong and pubstomped solo q while he talked about what he thought was wrong with CLG.

When the fuck did sion become viable again? I've always hated him and never thought he was any good.


i believe last patch (now 2 patches ago) he got a significant mana pool buff as well as some slight base stat increases which pushed him back into viability



also reading that lapaka analysis of his own team made my eyes bleed. is that how he talks? jesus i wouldn't want him on the team either


He's from the Dominican Republic so he talks with an accent. I read that post in his accent which made it way more enjoyable.

Have you heard him in that Interview with Rivington at IPL or IEM (cannot exactly recall which event it was)?

No offense intended, but he seriously sounded like he was braindamaged. I really like him as a player, he just seems not to be the one who puts stuff overeloquently.
currently rooting for myself.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
October 20 2011 14:32 GMT
#503
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 14:42:20
October 20 2011 14:38 GMT
#504
On October 20 2011 23:14 Kyhron wrote:
its not the attack speed or ult buff thats help its that they normalized his q and increased the damage

No they didn't. The only part of Q that changed was the mana cost. The damage was entirely unchanged (unless you mean the minor damage change 2 patches ago--which was like 5 damage at all ranks).

On October 20 2011 23:14 Kyhron wrote:
In terms of building him id get wriggles just for the passive + lifesteal to help with sustain slightly. Rageblade is definitely a great item on him same with gunblade. Your build seems pretty solid but to me skarner needs some sort of sustain for team fights to really be good. then again its my 2 cents

I don't see the need to build lifesteal items when you already have a shield and a heal built into your kit. By far the best survivability stats to build are resists for the same reason. Wriggle's was necessary pre-patch because to jungle sustainably you needed to economize your mana, but that's much less of an issue now.

If you absolutely need to itemize sustainability, I don't even think I'd get Wriggle's over Philo Stone, given that Shurelya's is really nice for him.
Moderator
lurked
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada918 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 14:39:38
October 20 2011 14:39 GMT
#505
Edit: QQ -> Posted it in shikyo's instead.
Magic is "just" magic until I get my hands on the source code.
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
October 20 2011 14:39 GMT
#506
On October 20 2011 23:32 Sabin010 wrote:
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.

If you want to carry games, play champs you are best with. Easy as that. At the elo you are probably at, basically everything is good enough to carry.

Champions that snowball really hard are generally Assassins like Akali, Talon, Kat.
currently rooting for myself.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 20 2011 14:40 GMT
#507
On October 20 2011 23:39 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:32 Sabin010 wrote:
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.

If you want to carry games, play champs you are best with. Easy as that. At the elo you are probably at, basically everything is good enough to carry.

Champions that snowball really hard are generally Assassins like Akali, Talon, Kat.

I think he means champs that you can build SotO/Levi/Mejai's on.
Moderator
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 20 2011 14:41 GMT
#508
On October 20 2011 23:40 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:39 Shiv. wrote:
On October 20 2011 23:32 Sabin010 wrote:
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.

If you want to carry games, play champs you are best with. Easy as that. At the elo you are probably at, basically everything is good enough to carry.

Champions that snowball really hard are generally Assassins like Akali, Talon, Kat.

I think he means champs that you can build SotO/Levi/Mejai's on.

LeBlanc. A good LeBlanc with a stacked Mejai? Everything asplode.
It's your boy Guzma!
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
October 20 2011 14:41 GMT
#509
On October 20 2011 23:40 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:39 Shiv. wrote:
On October 20 2011 23:32 Sabin010 wrote:
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.

If you want to carry games, play champs you are best with. Easy as that. At the elo you are probably at, basically everything is good enough to carry.

Champions that snowball really hard are generally Assassins like Akali, Talon, Kat.

I think he means champs that you can build SotO/Levi/Mejai's on.

Levi new fotm, amirite?
currently rooting for myself.
KaoReal
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada340 Posts
October 20 2011 14:49 GMT
#510
On October 20 2011 23:00 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 22:41 Kyhron wrote:
Skarner is better then before, but only when he gets in range to spam his aoe slow thing. If he gets in range to do that hes ridiculous. If he cant then hes still where he was.

I don't really think the buff really affected his raw power level that much in terms of team-fight strength. 10% ASpd@18 and 0.25 seconds on his ultimate are not huge changes to that.

What the changes helped with are improving his flexibility in jungle (he no longer needs his blue buff to jungle effectively, which opens up a lot of stranger jungle starts, as well as allowing him to pass the 2nd blue buff to mid in the relevant matchups), and allowing him more flexible itemization (since he can maintain jungle speed without Wriggle's, it allows him to work into his core items sooner, especially since the Wriggle's stats aren't great for him).

With regard to that, I'm curious, what are people building on him? I saw Saint do Wriggles->HoG->Randuin/Triforce/QSS, but I feel like the Wriggle's and HoG aren't that great on him--he doesn't need Wriggle's to clear small camps effectively because of how Q mana is easier to handle now, and HoG just feels wasted because of how he has a strong shield skill (so HP is a somewhat less desirable survivability stat than resists), and since he doesn't scale out that well late-game (so investing in gp5 doesn't pay off huge returns). Rageblade seems like a no-brainer for him, given that he uses all the stats, and can guarantee entering any fight with 8 stacks and keeping them up indefinitely (Rageblade stacks last 4 seconds, and Q's base CD is 3.5). I was thinking of a core looking something like Cloth+5pot->Boots->Rageblade->Aegis->Triforce/GA/QSS in some order. Thoughts?

I've always liked my first item to be Sheen; Skarner's mana problems aren't entirely gone, and this gives him the little edge that he needs. He also has one of the highest base attack damage scores in the league as he levels up, and the AP isn't wasted on him.
After Sheen and boots (2) are finished, Guinsoo's does sound like the next logical step; it is such an incredibly cost effective item for Skarner, especially when you factor in the effect it has on his passive.
You'd finish up the basic build with Trinity Force, I'm guessing, but that doesn't sound like much sustainability or durability to me. I'm not exactly sure where to fit in the Hextech Gunblade, if at all, anymore.
Life can only be understood backwards, but must be lived forward
Attakijing
Profile Joined June 2011
United States693 Posts
October 20 2011 14:57 GMT
#511
On October 20 2011 23:12 Requizen wrote:
So I take it the new general consensus is that Graves is worth buying? Or do you think he'll get a nerf in the first few weeks?

Honestly, he looks like a lot of fun, but I'm always wary of buying new champs only for them to get nerfed right away because of general qq. Hasn't happened in a while, but yeah.
his w is a totally new kind of skill and will have a lot of weird utility. all his stats and skills are just absurd. compare him to tristana: he has an inferior escape and a comparable attack speed buff in one skill, a farming/harassing aoe skill like trist E in his q, and his ult is very similar. with his w he's just better.

but it will take a long time for people to figure out exactly why he is relatively op. so probably 2-3 patches of rampage, then a small nerf like talon got, then a big nerf when the small nerf doesnt help
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
October 20 2011 14:57 GMT
#512
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
October 20 2011 15:02 GMT
#513
On October 20 2011 23:57 Mogwai wrote:
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?


I think so as well, but the general consensus is that Nashor's is bad as an item and should never be built on anything ever...
Kyhron
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States945 Posts
October 20 2011 15:02 GMT
#514
On October 20 2011 23:57 Mogwai wrote:
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?

not really.....AS is nice but Ive never had a problem with CDR cuz of his passive. In a weird way AS>CDR with CDR being almost completely unnecessary after 6 or so just cuz your autos will bring your skills off cooldown alot faster than having cdr will. again my 0.02 from what ive noticed/played
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 15:04:19
October 20 2011 15:03 GMT
#515
On October 21 2011 00:02 Kyhron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:57 Mogwai wrote:
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?

not really.....AS is nice but Ive never had a problem with CDR cuz of his passive. In a weird way AS>CDR with CDR being almost completely unnecessary after 6 or so just cuz your autos will bring your skills off cooldown alot faster than having cdr will. again my 0.02 from what ive noticed/played

uhhhh

uhhhhhhhhhh

it's like ezreal or Ryze, where because of your Hax flat CDR reduction crap, you get even stronger returns off of CDR.

This might be irrelevant, but on paper, CDR is absurdly strong on Skarnar.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 15:09:55
October 20 2011 15:07 GMT
#516
CDR is strong on Skarner. If you aren't hogging blue buff (not unreasonable), you probably should be building some kind of CDR item (I don't play skarner but I would probably gravitate towards frozen heart just because it's so lovely).

Actually I would probably just end up doing frozen heart + wit's end and stack a bunch of AP and be like whatsup, I have a lot of resist and a very spammable shield that gets stronger with AP and is harder to break with my super duper resists.

Trinity strong too but you can always just leave it at sheen since he has all the trinity utility as part of himself to begin with.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 15:09:45
October 20 2011 15:08 GMT
#517
On October 21 2011 00:02 zodde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:57 Mogwai wrote:
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?


I think so as well, but the general consensus is that Nashor's is bad as an item and should never be built on anything ever...

EDIT: this was too mean

general consensus is that ___ is bad PERIOD END OF STORY is pretty much the dumbest possible reason to abandon it. Nashor's Tooth gives good gold efficiency on the stats it provides, it just so happens that the stats it provides are a really awkward hodgepodge that don't make sense on most characters. They do however make sense on Skarner and I'm not sure why you wouldn't go out of your way to build Nashor's unless you were hogging blue buff all game.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
unichan
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States4223 Posts
October 20 2011 15:10 GMT
#518
On October 21 2011 00:08 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2011 00:02 zodde wrote:
On October 20 2011 23:57 Mogwai wrote:
I don't play Skarnar, so take this with a grain of salt...

but doesn't Nashor's Tooth have kinda absurd synergy with his kit?


I think so as well, but the general consensus is that Nashor's is bad as an item and should never be built on anything ever...

well, stop being a stupid little bitch and think for yourself then.

general consensus is that ___ is bad PERIOD END OF STORY is pretty much the dumbest possible reason to abandon it. Nashor's Tooth gives good gold efficiency on the stats it provides, it just so happens that the stats it provides are a really awkward hodgepodge that don't make sense on most characters. They do however make sense on Skarner and I'm not sure why you wouldn't go out of your way to build Nashor's unless you were hogging blue buff all game.

Smash laying down the law
I thought it worked with AP Teemo, but people made fun of me and said it was stupid. So I stopped getting it.
:)
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-20 15:13:03
October 20 2011 15:11 GMT
#519
On October 20 2011 23:41 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 23:40 TheYango wrote:
On October 20 2011 23:39 Shiv. wrote:
On October 20 2011 23:32 Sabin010 wrote:
Who are some good champs I can build snowballs on and carry games. I want to try out some bravery builds, and have no clue where to start.

If you want to carry games, play champs you are best with. Easy as that. At the elo you are probably at, basically everything is good enough to carry.

Champions that snowball really hard are generally Assassins like Akali, Talon, Kat.

I think he means champs that you can build SotO/Levi/Mejai's on.

Levi new fotm, amirite?


This is what I mean. SotO, Mejai's, Levi, Triforce, swifties or whatever it doesn't even matter.

I just want a few ideas of some champs that don't need any items, and would benefit from every aspect of the core build. I know it would work on most support champs, but I'm trying to think of a few champs with good ap and ad rations on short cd moves. Irelia and MF come to mind, even GP could work on his Ult and Oranges. I mean there is no point in having a 20 stack mejai's if you're not using ap. The SotO works on the ap guys cause your auto attacks actually do damage with it and you're going to be building a sheen for synergy with the ap/mana and bonus passive. So i'm looking for AP champs that have some AD scaling as well.
aliasds
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada555 Posts
October 20 2011 15:12 GMT
#520
On October 20 2011 22:14 br0fivE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 20 2011 13:46 tyCe wrote:
On October 20 2011 13:44 Cedstick wrote:
As a recent MF-mainer, I am not fucking impressed finding-out what this new champ is all about.

You mean how Graves pretty much makes MF obsolete?



I really dont think he makes her obsolete at all, what are you talken about lol


They have very similar skillsets (nuke, slow, steroid, aoe), but Graves does more damage, and more importantly his damage is guaranteed as all of it is done in burst. MF on the other hand, has to stand around like an idiot channelling for 2 years hoping that her targets are brain-dead and also standing in her aoe for 2 years.

His steroid lasts longer, has shorter downtime, and acts as a wallhopping gap closer. All of his damage is also physical, meaning each skill benefits from the armor pen that you eventually get.

Three not-insignificant sources of damage for MF (W passive, E, R) all do magic damage, meaning only her Q and her autoattacks receive your armor pen as well. Graves' Q also has longer range, does more damage, has better scaling, and costs less mana.

The only edge MF has on graves is her autoattack range, which is basically made up for by the gap closer on short cd.

RIP MF, my favourite ranged ad .
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