EPT[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 145
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
However, laning against a Brand? Impossible unless he's really bad. Morgana gives him problems although I guess she gives everyone problems. Old Orianna wrecked him pretty hard, I wouldn't be surprised if current Orianna still beats him. His laning is just really hard and with champions like Morgana being put back into popularity and the introduction of shit like Brand/Orianna/Xerath it's hard to find favorable match ups for him. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
How does brand zone Vlad? His e hurts, sure, but boots first means that you dodge his w, which is what brand maxes first anyway, and a q will take back the health you lose from e, as well as the simple fact that brand uses up his mana, wheras you have none. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On the other hand, everyone seems to be picking Sion again, and Vladimir has a great time against Sion. On October 30 2011 03:29 Craton wrote: Brand, Annie, prob Xerath Annie's not really that bad of a matchup for Vladimir imo, if you can survive through early levels. It's straight-up impossible for her to force a kill on you unless you go full retard, and once your Q CD comes down a bit, you have way more lane-staying power. She'll win early levels, but I don't think she retains the ability to zone Vladimir as long as Kassadin or Brand. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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ptrpb
Canada753 Posts
On October 30 2011 03:29 Two_DoWn wrote: And I'm honestly curious, but which mids are capable of zoning vlad? His q hits pretty hard even at low levels, heals him pretty well, and the only drawback is a longish cd. I really dont think its all that hard to just cs till its a lower cd and take advantage of any enemy who overextends to try to zone you. How does brand zone Vlad? His e hurts, sure, but boots first means that you dodge his w, which is what brand maxes first anyway, and a q will take back the health you lose from e, as well as the simple fact that brand uses up his mana, wheras you have none. Until level 7 you have a poke that is on a ludicrous cooldown. Anyone with decent damage can easily zone and low CDs can easily zone you. Kassadin, Annie, Cass, Morgana, Brand, Orianna, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn, Akali, Fiddlesticks, Malzahar Just off the top of my head these are the mid champs that can easily zone Vlad because he can not effectively trade if any of them due to his early Q cd. His Q doesn't even heal him for that much until you grab a revolver even with scaling AP runes and flat AP quints or flat HP quints. I've used all sorts of runes and masteries on Vlad to maximize his healing and cooldowns, there's just no way for him to trade effectively with 90% of mid champions until level 7. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Again, I think that people are caught up in OLD vlad, where you spammed q at the enemy and won your lane by being an asshole. Now you just use your q to counterharass and last hit, grab level 5 and win your lane later. If the enemy is stupid enough to constantly try to harass you and zone you, then they are going to waste their mana and be open for ganks constantly, miss a ton of cs, and not really accomplish much because you have a free heal, and realistically there is no way that anyone is going to be able to instagib you before level 6, which is when your power ramps up drastically as well. | ||
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Misder
United States1557 Posts
Chaox and TreeEskimo commentating. Game one just over. + Show Spoiler + Dignitas up 1-0. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 30 2011 04:18 Two_DoWn wrote: Some more random thoughts: which ap mids DONT have trouble with Kass? Which dont expect to take decent harass from Brand e? APs with vastly superior pre-6 pushing power can put a lot of pressure on Kassadin--Morgana, Sion, Heimerdinger, etc. Zilean also goes even with him, though Kassadin is a pain for Zilean in teamfights because 3 sec silence + high mobility sort of fucks your ability to ult properly. On October 30 2011 04:18 Two_DoWn wrote: Again, I think that people are caught up in OLD vlad, where you spammed q at the enemy and won your lane by being an asshole. Now you just use your q to counterharass and last hit, grab level 5 and win your lane later. If the enemy is stupid enough to constantly try to harass you and zone you, then they are going to waste their mana and be open for ganks constantly, miss a ton of cs, and not really accomplish much because you have a free heal, and realistically there is no way that anyone is going to be able to instagib you before level 6, which is when your power ramps up drastically as well. Except lots of guys shove Vlad out of lane mana-efficiently and at very low gank risk--like Morgana and Kassadin. This is exacerbated by the fact that Vladimir is not the easiest person to gank FOR, seeing as he has no good gank CC himself. How are you going to be able to gank a Kassadin lane effectively when the laner himself doesn't even have a CC for you to work with? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On October 30 2011 04:27 TheYango wrote: APs with vastly superior pre-6 pushing power can put a lot of pressure on Kassadin--Morgana, Sion, Heimerdinger, etc. Zilean also goes even with him, though Kassadin is a pain for Zilean in teamfights because 3 sec silence + high mobility sort of fucks your ability to ult properly. Except lots of guys shove Vlad out of lane mana-efficiently and at very low gank risk--like Morgana and Kassadin. Since when are you going to be able to gank a Kassadin lane effectively when the laner himself doesn't even have a CC for you to work with? If I am playing Vlad, I LOVE when people push hard against me. It means I get free cs at the tower, and completely free exp. And again, Kass is a HORRIBLE example to use when trying to say vlad has a bad laning phase. Kass makes nearly every ap look horrible. | ||
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ptrpb
Canada753 Posts
On October 30 2011 04:18 Two_DoWn wrote: Some more random thoughts: which ap mids DONT have trouble with Kass? Which dont expect to take decent harass from Brand e? Again, I think that people are caught up in OLD vlad, where you spammed q at the enemy and won your lane by being an asshole. Now you just use your q to counterharass and last hit, grab level 5 and win your lane later. If the enemy is stupid enough to constantly try to harass you and zone you, then they are going to waste their mana and be open for ganks constantly, miss a ton of cs, and not really accomplish much because you have a free heal, and realistically there is no way that anyone is going to be able to instagib you before level 6, which is when your power ramps up drastically as well. I think you're caught up on old Vlad to the point where you can't understand how Vladimir has become probably the worst AP carry, and realistically doesn't really fully fulfil a role. You can't counter-harass with your Q when it has a 7 second cooldown in the early levels, for every one Q you land on them, you'll be taking at least 2 of their harasses plus auto attacks because Vlad's auto attack range is short. Until level 6 at least, you are the lane bitch. You are going to be zoned, and if you're not then your opponent is bad. That's why you focus on surviving and last hitting as much as you can until level 6/7 where you can be a lot more dynamic in what you can do, and even then you're walking on thin ice. When you hit level 9, and you have a revolver and boots you can start to dominate and actually do something significant. Vlad has one of the best mid games in the game. Here is where you shine for a couple of levels before quickly falling into mediocrity in the late game. I've played Vlad for hundreds of games, he's my favourite champion. I'm not looking for him to be overpowered, I just want him to be viable again. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 30 2011 04:30 Two_DoWn wrote: And again, Kass is a HORRIBLE example to use when trying to say vlad has a bad laning phase. Kass makes nearly every ap look horrible. From the standpoint of Vladimir's strength as a pick, it's relevant because most of those APs bring more to the table even when they lost lane. Zilean, Morgana, Orianna, Annie, etc. that are behind on farm are a larger threat than a Vladimir that got shut out. If you are talking about solo queue, any champion is viable in solo queue. That's a wasted discussion. If you are talking about as a competitive pick, Vladimir is not a popular pick because the effort needed to make him work is disproportionate compared to how badly you're fucked when they shut him out. You can sneak him in as a late pick against a team composition that is not prepared to handle him, but that is true of any champion in the game. | ||
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