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United States47024 Posts
I feel like these lane sustain issues sort of came out of Riot wanting melee laners to be able to solo in a weird way.
Consider a matchup between a melee laner and a ranged one. The ranged laner is going to be able to get a lot of free harass on the melee laner, particularly if the melee laner has no ranged harassment abilities. If you don't want melee laners to get straight-up harassed out of a matchup against a ranged champion, you've got 2 options. First, you could have the melee laner capable of threatening a large amount of burst, so that even if they do take more harass, their own harass puts the opposing laner into the kill zone sooner. Some melee laners are designed somewhat around this--like Garen and Pantheon, though in general I would guess Riot views melee laners capable of one-shotting squishy ranged laners from fairly high health as something many players wouldn't find very fun. This leads to the second option, which is to give melee laners high mitigation and healing abilities, to make harass less effective, allowing them to stay in lane longer.
The latter solution of course creates weird scenarios when these sustainable laners are against each other (as is commonly the case top lane these days). Neither of them are able to get off as much free harassment on the other one that a ranged champion would, and because their healing/mitigation abilities were balanced around deal with ranged laners, in many cases they just outheal the harass that they're capable of putting on each other. Since neither of them can really do anything effectual to the other one, both laners just sit back and farm passively.
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Xerath late-game is so much fun. Deploy behind walls or in the jungle and proceed to obliterate everyone, squishy, tanky, noone of it matters cause you are cutting right through all that magic resistance.
Being able to re-deploy every 2-3 seconds is just so crazy good. Carries and AP carries can't even engage in a fight because your ulti will rape their face from the fog of war.
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On October 08 2011 13:44 Lancer723 wrote:
You guys should have a TL streaming thread with all your stream links so that only notable TLers can have a thread and also it compiles them in a format that makes it easy to find a TL stream to watch.
That way I can be a homeboy and jsut watch you guys stream.
It's right here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259585
Whenever people post their streams properly (aka no one on page 2) it gets added prety quickly. =P
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New champ sneak peek:
male with gun
how is that possible on Runeterra
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Gangplank.
And everyone who builds Hextech Revolver.
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Wow. I totally forgot how good Swain is top when you pick him properly. (aka vs any bruiser <3)
(Fun fact: Support shouting for Talon to go top and me as Swain to go mid. Real great ideas these people. AP NEEDS TO BE MID WTF. - 1600 real elo hell)
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On October 08 2011 21:58 r.Evo wrote:
Wow. I totally forgot how good Swain is top when you pick him properly. (aka vs any bruiser <3)
(Fun fact: Support shouting for Talon to go top and me as Swain to go mid. Real great ideas these people. AP NEEDS TO BE MID WTF. - 1600 real elo hell)
The reason why I didn't play him or Irelia recently these days. Need a sololane to get their farm and not enough junglers on normals. I should play more ranked once I get a better connection.
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On October 08 2011 21:57 spinesheath wrote:
Gangplank.
And everyone who builds Hextech Revolver.
Corki, Twitch
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Yea, corki has a freaking plane...
Also Miss Fortune, Tristana, Caitlin, Heimerdinger. I'm not quite sure what Urgot fires and Rumble has missles.
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On October 09 2011 00:03 rigwarl wrote:
Yea, corki has a freaking plane...
Also Miss Fortune, Tristana, Caitlin, Heimerdinger. I'm not quite sure what Urgot fires and Rumble has missles.
Tristana, MF and Caitlyn are all girls and Heimerdinger throws wrenches. Urgot counts. Rumble drives a gigantic machine.
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On October 08 2011 19:33 TheYango wrote:
I feel like these lane sustain issues sort of came out of Riot wanting melee laners to be able to solo in a weird way.
Consider a matchup between a melee laner and a ranged one. The ranged laner is going to be able to get a lot of free harass on the melee laner, particularly if the melee laner has no ranged harassment abilities. If you don't want melee laners to get straight-up harassed out of a matchup against a ranged champion, you've got 2 options. First, you could have the melee laner capable of threatening a large amount of burst, so that even if they do take more harass, their own harass puts the opposing laner into the kill zone sooner. Some melee laners are designed somewhat around this--like Garen and Pantheon, though in general I would guess Riot views melee laners capable of one-shotting squishy ranged laners from fairly high health as something many players wouldn't find very fun. This leads to the second option, which is to give melee laners high mitigation and healing abilities, to make harass less effective, allowing them to stay in lane longer.
The latter solution of course creates weird scenarios when these sustainable laners are against each other (as is commonly the case top lane these days). Neither of them are able to get off as much free harassment on the other one that a ranged champion would, and because their healing/mitigation abilities were balanced around deal with ranged laners, in many cases they just outheal the harass that they're capable of putting on each other. Since neither of them can really do anything effectual to the other one, both laners just sit back and farm passively.
Actually, the situation is much worse in duo lanes in general, where you can get harassed by both the support and the ranged and their support can stop you as much on your support helps, except your support gets zoned out by the double ranged. Thats why you see no melee duos, things like gp and talon are a bit different because for the purposes of laning having a spammable harass that does more damage than auto attack is better than auto attacks. (Think pantheon mid vs ranged ads)
Tanks like chogath, galio, etc, could arguably still lane vs ranged+support because they have a lot of ranged spells, and I suppose thats why the tank+support bot was a meta for US for a lot of the time.
I suppose the reason why melee dps weren't seen out of the jungle for the longest time is that they didn't have the tools to solo let alone duo lane. Thats why jax went under the radar for so long.
How did dota handle this?
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Ah- I wasn't aware the "male" part was critical, is there some Runeterra lore I'm missing?
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England2675 Posts
On October 09 2011 00:19 rigwarl wrote:
Ah- I wasn't aware the "male" part was critical, is there some Runeterra lore I'm missing?
It's just pointing out that most of the "recent" ranged ad carries were all female.
There was a similar thing about female tanks which is why Leona was made.
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Oh ok, I thought the point of that post was saying guns were too advanced technology for this game. Also by Heimer I meant his turrets.
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Where does poppy belong on a team? Would you put her in a solo lane or in a duo lane? And if you did put her in a duo lane, would you put a dedicated support with her?
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Any lane that she can farm in. Typically that could be top against tanky champs who can't deal a ton of damage to her, or bottom with a healer against relatively weak harrass if such a setup ever arises.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
akali isn't op but gunblade is. So akali atm is slightly op. look at voyboy's solo q with akali lolzz
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TSKoH.jpg)
