EPT[Patch 1.0.0.126: Xerath] General Discussion - Page 13
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mcimba42
192 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
That's not to say they won't work. If you're the only tanky dps/bruiser on your team, you need to build defensively, but if there are more, you can kind of build straight dps and go for kills. It's generally how I decide on items, AtMogs for tanky builds, BFS items for damage builds. You just need to see your team and theirs and decide on how to go. I like Bruta because CDR is amazing on her, and Blue will generally go to your AP carry. I don't get CDR from runes (ArPen red, armor yellow, MR blue, AD quint), so I like it to come from somewhere. Plus, more Arpen is nice early on instead of waiting on LW. I posted my bruiser/solo top build that I normally run, since my normal teammates are an Ashe, Swain, Soraka and Nocturne. It's a bad comp, sure, but that's just our characters. A straight damage build like Yango posted will work well if you run with a tank or another bruiser. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:25 clickrush wrote: phreak is dumb for buying sorcs on a champ that gets free %mpen through an ability. No he's not. %Pen isn't remotely useful at the stage of the game where Sorcs give the most bang for their buck--which is when every squishy in the game is working with 30-50 MR. %Pen does nothing to those MR ranges, whereas Sorcs + MPen marks is basically true damage on all your spells. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:28 Juicyfruit wrote: I find it hard to justify atmogs on riven when you could be playing atmogs leesin, pirate or renekton instead. Eh, I just don't like playing Renek or Pirate, and LS is basically a perma-ban. Riven gets quite a bit out of it, and fills basically the same role. I just feel too squishy without some sort of health item. I want to experiment more with FMallet, but can't really play her on free week :\ I'm not claiming to be the end-all authority on Riven, just putting out my opinion. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:28 Juicyfruit wrote: I find it hard to justify atmogs on riven when you could be playing atmogs leesin, pirate or renekton instead. You make a great point, riot should remove all but the 10 best champs from the game, that way you don't need to justify anything. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:25 Requizen wrote: See, I've done the glass cannon builds, and I'm not a fan. Yes, you get some defensiveness from AD with her E, but the shield doesn't last that long and straight AD won't give you as much Effective Health as a straight health item will for the gold. The same is true of Jax. Doesn't make Atmogs any good on him. A shield is worth exactly the same as how much damage it absorbs. Full stop. The fact that the shield doesn't last long or has a CD means nothing if it's taking full damage (and with Riven's damage, ignoring her 2.5 out of every 4-5 seconds is hardly a viable proposition)--it's still worth the full HP value, which is what matters. In the context of Riven, this means that at worst, Valor acts as Jax passive's worth of AD->HP. If a fight gets drawn out, it can be worth twice as much if you get 2-3 more shield activations. She doesn't compare at all to conventional bruisers, and I don't know why people went to those comparisons first. Moderate base damage, token amounts of mobility/utility and "must stop her farm" levels of free gold scaling off damage stats screams Jax-like melee carry to me. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:34 JackDino wrote: You make a great point, riot should remove all but the 10 best champs from the game, that way you don't need to justify anything. Now let's see... where exactly did I say not to pick Riven? I didn't say Riven's not viable, I said atmogs riven is silly, because it doesn't make use of riven's strengths. Replace my statement with "I find it hard to justify playing bloodthister soraka when I could be playing bloodthister MF, Cait or Ezreal instead". Now repeat the same thing you said. Looking good yet? | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
After our discussions on the old thread, I started going IE 90% of the time on Caitlyn over BT. I suddenly started demolishing harder than before. I thought it wasn't even a contest, that BT would be better with higher AD and better sustain, but dem crits. Passive + IE + PD. People just go boom. Forgive me, I never... I didn't know.... | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:39 Juicyfruit wrote: Now let's see... where exactly did I say not to pick Riven? I didn't say Riven's not viable, I said atmogs riven is silly because it doesn't make use of riven's strength. Replace my statement with "I find it hard to justify playing bloodthister soraka when I could be playing bloodthister MF, Cait or Ezreal instead". Now repeat the same thing you said. Looking good yet? Comparing riven to bruisers and comparing soraka to ad carries makes even more sense. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:36 TheYango wrote: The same is true of Jax. Doesn't make Atmogs any good on him. A shield is worth exactly the same as how much damage it absorbs. Full stop. The fact that the shield doesn't last long or has a CD means nothing if it's taking full damage (and with Riven's damage, ignoring her 2.5 out of every 4-5 seconds is hardly a viable proposition)--it's still worth the full HP value, which is what matters. In the context of Riven, this means that at worst, Valor acts as Jax passive's worth of AD->HP. If a fight gets drawn out, it can be worth twice as much if you get 2-3 more shield activations. She doesn't compare at all to conventional bruisers, and I don't know why people went to those comparisons first. Moderate base damage, token amounts of mobility/utility and "must stop her farm" levels of free gold scaling off damage stats screams Jax-like melee carry to me. Good points. I rarely get into the actual number crunching (allowing others to do it for me  ), but maybe I'll be looking at something more along the lines of yours. Maybe start Boots 3Pots > Wriggles > Boots2 > BFS > whatever? I just feel that multiple DBlades early on allows me to be stronger in lane, whereas without them I feel like I can get harassed out forever. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:40 JackDino wrote: Comparing riven to bruisers and comparing soraka to ad carries makes even more sense. It's a reasonable analogy. The only possible reason to compare soraka to AD carries is that she happens to be ranged. The only possible reason to compare Riven to conventional bruisers is that she's melee. For like the 3rd time, she's much closer to Jax than to any of the conventional bruisers. Not really "I get one damage item and I'm set for the rest of the game", and closer to "I buy 2000 gold worth of damage and get 234857239475 gold worth of offensive/defensive stats out of it." | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:40 JackDino wrote: Comparing riven to bruisers and comparing soraka to ad carries makes even more sense. It's not at all that different when the point here is that you should build a champion to make the most out of their kit, and if your build doesn't synergize with your champion at all then why aren't you playing a different champion whose kit DOES synergize with the items? | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:47 NeoIllusions wrote: Archon is pretty gud. Will probably be like artillery Brand. Well, official TL rename has already happened. Xerath = Archon. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:45 Juicyfruit wrote: It's not at all that different when the point here is that you should build a champion to make the most out of their kit, and if your build doesn't synergize with your champion at all then why aren't you playing a different champion whose kit DOES synergize with the items? I can understand AtMog's not being as good on her as LS or GP, but saying it doesn't synergize with her? That seems wrong to me. It's a combination that gives her defensiveness (something you need when you're melee without a single ranged ability) and a moderate amount of AD (which she scales amazingly with). It's not going to give you IE/BT levels of damage, but I don't think it's ok to just write off a good durability combo as bad on her. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On October 06 2011 01:05 Requizen wrote: Best not play her if you're on mah team >:| But yeah, build her bruiser style, I find is the best. DBlade start > boots > DBlade (can maybe skip this one) > Boots2 > Bruta > AtMog's > Ghostblade > whatever. Works pretty well, a bit of a power dip while building AtMog's, but not too bad. I've been wanting to try some new builds, but free week means so many bad instalocks  I've been thinking DBlade > Boots > DBlade > Boots2 > Phage > Atma's > FMallet > Ghostblade. A bit tankier, but AtMallet is pretty good in it's own right. The thing about Riven is this: you scale off AD better than nearly any other bruiser type, thanks to your passive, all your abilities, and the crazy good Ult. So, you generally don't need as much AD as, say, Garen, Wukong, or Trynd, just because you get so much more out of it. You can afford to build a bit more tanky and still do damage. Jungling is viable with pretty much the same build, but you have to start wolves unless you have help with blue. Ganks early are good at nearly any level, but you have very low jungle sustain. As a side note, I'm still iffy about Wriggle's. It's very situational. Nice if you're getting bullied in your lane and need early defensiveness/lifesteal, and the ward is cool, but if you're even or winning your lane, it just doesn't feel worth the large cost. this is really bad advice, you should start cloth 5 hp against 90% of all top laners. | ||
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