We heard multiple times that there are lots of Rioters lurking over here on a regular basis.
Since we're TL and therefor win the interwebs, I'd like to make this a thread specifically for all those things where you thought "Man, if I could talk to a dude for riot for like one minute, I'd suggest that..."
I'm not exactly sure which format we should use for this, so for now I'll try and make a short tl;dr for each idea and put the original posts in spoilers. Once we have a nice collection I'm pretty sure we have people (sup Moonbear <3) who can show this thread to the proper... "authorities", huehuehuehue.
Suggestions on the format I should use in the OP would be very welcome (PM preferred so we don't clutter up the thread), I have faith in TL that we have lots of small and big ideas & suggestions to improve this game.
Please keep offtopic and random rants (yo riot please nerf xy thx!) out of this to keep it productive.
-Pressing R before Flash currently consumes a Mantra charge on Karma. + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 04:44 Mogwai wrote: All I want for Xmas is to be able to do R -> F -> E with Karma and have the mantra work on my shield T_T.
- fixed in Patch 1.0.0.125
Apparently Yoricks and Wukungs Q currently neither proc spell vamp nor lifesteal. I highly doubt that's a feature. :S + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 09:15 phyvo wrote: I'm sick and tired of Yorick and Wukong Qs not proccing lifesteal or even spell vamp. Wukong Q doesn't even apply tiamat, the whole thing is ridiculous and I'm frustrated since I reported these bugs before on the official forums and nothing happened except that they fixed Blitzcrank.
They might be working on it already, but still, le sigh...
Currently, if you disconnect for any reason and the "Would you like to reconnect? Yes/No"-dialogue pops out and you press "yes", you reconnect, but your vision of minions is flawed to the point where the game is unplayable. Basicly you have "vision" of minions who were alive when you disconnected, but can neither interact with them nor see champions near them. It creates huge amounts of confusion and the only way to fix it is to End Game -> Reconnect.
This bug is hugely annoying (especially in ranked) since it causes reconnects to last multiple minutes longer than they should be.
-There are some bugs when it comes to viewing multiple profiles in a row. + Show Spoiler +
On September 09 2011 19:18 spinesheath wrote: PlayerA views PlayerB's profile (through search or right click -> view profile). PlayerA klicks the myProfile button at the top right of the client. PlayerA tries to view PlayerB's profile again (through search or right click -> view profile), but it doesn't work.
PlayerA has to view a random PlayerC's profile before he can switch back to PlayerB's profile again.
The client probably prevents you from requesting the profile of the one player twice in a row (maybe to protect the servers from potential profile request spam). But when you switch to your own profile, the client fails to update some values.
-The good old "random minion attacks me from half across the map. + Show Spoiler +
On September 11 2011 08:09 RogerX wrote: I dont know if this is a glitch or not but,
When you attack the minions besides the blue and red and leave them alone, run away without killing them. They hit you from ANYWHERE in the map (the attacker) as long as you have vision of those minions that you hit. A funny thing is that their attack looks like a lazer because they attack multiple shots seriously fast with those beams (Only activated once you hit them and run like mentioned) Its annoying because my enemy was following the attack and found me and the team in the bushes. Lol...
You can't invite people from the "recently played" list. + Show Spoiler +
On September 09 2011 03:33 spinesheath wrote: You can't invite people from the "recently played" list.
-Sometimes when you try to duo queue and the second person joins the team, the start button is greyed out and you have to remake the game in order to start it. (Not sure if it applies to 5's too)
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: Couple bugs regarding duo-queueing (and presumably queueing with a full team):
- The Start Game button will sometimes not enable when the second player joins a team, meaning you can not duo-queue in ranked since it believes there are insufficient (or too many, not sure which) players in the team to start the game.
I'm not entirely sure how to reproduce this but I believe it has something to do with the game not updating whatever counter it uses to determine how many players are in a party. I've had it happen when simply inviting the player to the game, then going back to the invite panel (without inviting someone else), or having one player leave the team and having to invite another / reinvite that person. I believe this is the same bug that allows 6v6 TT to work.
-Occasionally, one player will not be added to the queue when a team enters the queue together.
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: This one I have no idea how to reproduce, but it has caused my brother and I to lose a few hundred elo each by being forced to queue dodge in ranked since one of us is not added to the queue and the queue pops for the other before we realize. What's worse is the game thinks the other player (the one who wasn't queue'd) is in the game so if you play you are forced into a 4v5 since even restarting the client won't allow the other player to access the game and this assigns that player a leave and auto-loss.
Also: There is a similar bug where you enter queue as e.g. 5 and then end up with 4 of your original queue and +1 random person. No idea how to reproduce it at all.
-If you disconnect due to temporary internet loss during a game and use the in-game reconnect feature, your out-of-game client will crash when you try to do pretty much anything after the game has ended. (Detailed description for this one!) + Show Spoiler +
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: Here is one which is unrelated to gameplay but causes a client crash:
Steps to Reproduce: 1. Join a game (must have more than one player in it so the game persists after a disconnect, it doesn't appear you can reconnect to a game with just you and bots in it) 2. Disconnect your internet and wait about 30 seconds 3. Reconnect your internet 4. When prompted to reconnect to the game do so 5. Finish the game 6. When returned to the client after the game, try to view your profile page 7. The client should freeze or crash
I believe this bug has to do with the client not reconnecting to the server when you tell the game to reconnect so the server is probably registering you as logged off / disconnected and terminating your session while the client thinks that session is still active. Then again, I have no idea what your implementation looks like so this is pure speculation ^^
I am pulling the steps to reproduce from memory, so they may not be entirely correct. When I get back from classes this evening I will try to see if I can nail down the steps a little more concretely and also try and find out how to reproduce the other two bugs if I have time.
-Apparently for some people the gold/plat icons don't update correctly. Solved! + Show Spoiler +
RIOT Marcou
The new ladder reward tiers are:
* Platinum (Top 0.2%) - 1900 and above (3v3: 1700+, pre-made 5v5: 1750+): a framed summoner icon in platinum, a platinum banner in summoner profile, a platinum forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Gold (Top 3%) - Between 1520 and 1899 (3v3: 1490-1699, pre-made 5v5: 1500-1749) : a framed summoner icon in gold, a gold banner in your summoner profile, a gold forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Silver (Top 10%) - Between 1400 and 1519 (3v3: 1410-1489, pre-made 5v5: 1410-1499) : a framed summoner icon in silver and a silver banner in your summoner profile * Bronze (Top 25%) - Between 1249 and 1399 (3v3: 1249-1409, pre-made 5v5: 1249-1409) : a bronze banner in your summoner profile
and yet, at 1508 rating in ranked 5s, i still see silver icon. likewise, on a friend's account, in his solo he's got 1519 and a gold icon. which is the definitive line for cut-offs, the icon color in-game, or the elo # falling in the ranges listed by Marcou?
-A timer for my next first win of the day bonus in my profile would be nice.
-If you go to your profile -> champions -> jungler you get WW, Fiddle, Nunu and Skarner. That list needs some serious updating.
-The game statistics are less informative than they could be. + Show Spoiler +
I would like to have better game statistics. "damage dealt" is utterly useless. What we need is stuff like "damage dealt to champions". Or even better, a grid (or something similar) that lists precisely how much damage which champion dealt to which enemy. An even more sophisticated approach would include a time axis so that you could analyze how your damage output progressed over time. There also could be markers showing when people died on that time axis, so you can see when teamfights occured etc.
-The match history is less informative than it could be. Ideal case you find a way to get access to the same stats as in the post-game info screen.
Also this is the place for loads of fun but useless information, maybe for achievements in the future? I'm thinking like "Champions killed on the last ignite tick." or "Times survived after hitting less than 100hp.", the possibilities are endless.
On September 07 2011 23:41 br0fivE wrote: I really agree with alot of these especially after game stats being so bland
Like there should be an in depth stats in match history the stats we have now have so much useless information stuff like Killed X most, killed by X most would be cool
-When you are in someone else's game and get the right to invite people, you can't invite them by right-clicking their name in a chat room or your friends list.
-Website links on the client are based on the users IP, not on the client he's currently logged in to. + Show Spoiler +
-Ability to rebind the new defensive ping hotkey would be cool.
-Currently there is no smartcast for items in the game. Adding this would make items with actives much more accessible and easier to combo (e.g. DFG or Gunblade active) -Added in Patch 1.0.0.125
-Currently you can't see in your profile how long it will take until your elo starts decaying. Making this visible (maybe even with an email option to tell you if it will happen) might encourage people to play more here and there and would be helpfull in general.
-There currently is no design for scaling CC in this game. + Show Spoiler +
On September 06 2011 23:17 spinesheath wrote: Scaling CC. Knockup duration scaling with AP, Slow % scaling with AP... stuff like that. Scaling CC is completely unexplored in LoL so far. Well except for Randuin's.
-There currently is no way to officially access the chinese art for the NA/EU clients. These arts have quite some fanboys out there.+ Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 04:58 Shiragaku wrote: However, one thing I really liked were the Chinese splash art and they are so hard to come by now DX. Do you think you could give us to option to choose between Western and Eastern?
-We'd like to see a more customizable interface than the current one. + Show Spoiler +
On September 14 2011 10:28 Juddas wrote: I would like to be able to customize the user interface way more. AS of now, the minimap is way to big for me and when I spam like crazy and am running away, i will often click the minimap making me go there. Also, I would really like a tower attack radius similar to the spell radius blue thing. And since I am talking about the interface, if you switch it from the right to the left there are major bugs.
And make the hotkeys customizable outside of game. And include a video of what each spell does on the Champion page. That would be really cool if you ask me.
i am just rambling so I will stop.
Disconnects: -If someone is clearly afk in champ select (no chat, no bans, random champ pick) the game currently does not account for this and starts anyway. A force-dodge would be much more appropriate for this scenario.
-Currently both sides receive an announcement if a player disconnects. Changing this to only be seen for the affected team might decrease the amount of cheesy, frustrating wins/losses in some cases. + Show Spoiler +
Moonbear, why doesn't riot force eject people who are AFK at champ select and don't pick a champion?
This .
@Moonbear and rest of TL to discuss : Do you think it's correct that when summoner DC's BOTH sides receive announcement ? This promotes free pushes / dragons / dives etc etc and puts the side with unfortunate DC in even bigger disadvantage. If enemy doesn't know you are missing a player you still have time to defend until said sumoner reconnects and you can continue game normally. Now if I see 5minutes into game that enemy jungler DC's ... we just push the shit out of unfortunate enemy team and game experience is crippled for both sides ( I suppose IP farmers are happy )
Re Both Teams have DC Announced: Coding can always be changed. The question is, what alternative do you suggest? This sort of decision would be Morello/Zileas level. So pretty senior. You'd have to give a really good reason. But if you can, they'd listen.
The alternative I'd suggest is to only announce the disconnect to the affected team. The team without the disconnect should not be informed of any disconnect on the opposing team. Why? Because the only reason for them to know would be to instantly abuse that advantage and turn around games quickly.
I think everyone had games (usually above the 40 minute mark) where a single 1 minute disconnect can completely turn around a game because the opposing team can just force an immediate 5n4 and press that advantage. If they're no informed of that disconnect the defending team can stall the game easier and give the disconnected person a bigger timeframe to come back.
The only disadvantage to this would be that it's harder for the opposing team to report disconnected people after the game. This can either be ignored (since the disconnected person will get 4 reports from his team anyway), or countered by including a stat called "total time disconnected" in the end game screen.
-There currently is no option for early surrenders if someone has been disconnected from the first minute on + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 02:17 Bluebush wrote: I've never understood it either. I also wish they'd let you surrender earlier (maybe at 15) if someone has been disconnected all game. I don't care if they give reduced IP for it - I just want to be playing a 5v5. I suppose the attitude might be different at high elo, but at my low rating I'd rather just eat the loss and get into a new game as soon as possible.
Surrender mechanic: -The surrender time-out defaults to "no" instead of "yes" + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 02:09 STS17 wrote: Explain to me the logic behind the /surrender time-out defaulting to no instead of yes. If people want to keep playing the game they should have to actually take the time to say "yes, I want to keep playing this game" by clicking the no button instead of being able to sit there and wait. This also causes players who go afk, but have not yet been dropped from the game or marked afk, count as a surrender vote (because them being afk actually makes it harder to surrender a game with the current system)
On September 07 2011 05:48 spinesheath wrote: I am against a change for the default surrender vote. Either people get disconnected for being afk or they will vote no just to piss you off anyways. On the other hand if you are trying to win but someone spams /surrender you can move the surrender vote popup out of vision and don't have to deal with it anymore.
Passive laning: -Roaming and therfor an option which made it possible to increase early aggression got killed by the XP change in 1n2 lanes. + Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]On September 06 2011 23:57 Two_DoWn wrote: As much as Riot hates to hear, their changes to make junglers "unnecessary" have only contributed to making the game passive in laning. You cant be aggressive with a lot of roaming simply because Riot destroyed 1v2 lanes.
Random rant about various things (long, but solid. Especially the part about Ward cost+bounty icnrease.) + Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]On September 13 2011 02:45 clickrush wrote: Ok iam taking the time to list everything that bothers me:
1. Balancing Philosophy.
Champions: - Taking away "frustrating" mechanics makes champions less unique and lessens the requirement of knowledge, awareness, tactical decision making and counterpicking. With the introduction of more tenacity and consistent weakening of unique but powerfull mechanics such as sustain, disables, burst damage or harrassing power etc. that are considered "frustrating" (eg. noobs can't handle them and complain in the forums) the game only becomes dumbed down with every patch.
General
- What Riot seems to be ignoring so far is that the early game strength of turrets is the main reason for passive early game play. The proximity of the outer sidelane turrets and their raw damaging power gives too much safety so that good players are forced to only pile op little tiny harassing advantages which leads to a bit more CS so they can play aggressive in after 20min of "passive" gameplay. This problem creates even champion balancing issues such as sustain champions being too powerfull and they forced themselves to indirectly address the main issue by nerfing those champions when in fact they aren't really one but they abuse the passive metagame which is towerhugging and creepwave tanking. If the turrets were farther away from eachother and they dealt less damage early on then passive play would require a lot more effort than it does now. The game would be much more action packed and the laneing phase would end much more quickly if one side would gain an advantage.
Items:
- Wards are way too cheap and they can be bought infitely. The downside of placing wards in less needed locations is almost 0. Mapcontrol should not be for (almost) free. It should be earned and chosen well. I suggest giving much more bounty for wardkills and also increasing the cost by a couple coins.
- gp10 items give too much income and are boring. I would rather have an item that gives me more gold/assist than gold/time on my support/jungle/roaming champions. This would promote ganking and force a more action packed gameplay.
- Snowball items such as leviatan, meja's and occult are what LoL needs on paper. In practice they suck balls. I suggest rebalancing them, giving them a faster stat gain but a more reasonable cap. Levi and occult even better basestats for not being completely useless. I think (and I'am pulling this out of my arse) getting 3/kill 2/ass but capping them at 15'ish would make them more viable but not too powerfull for gankers, supports and junglers to buy and would also lead the game into more action.
- I like the recent nerf of deathcap because the item is a freaking nobrainer for most ranged mages. We have so many interesting AP-based items which are outshined by dc-rushing. I would love to see what happens if the AP-scaling on deathcap was higher but the base was lower so we would have about the same stats with 2-3 ap items beforehand. The item is just boring design because it adds too much to not be rushed on almost every mage.
- I don't like that bigger base items get you more stats/gold than small ones. They allready free up item slots. If we had the option to buy 2 wands instead of 1 rod when behind then this would lead to less "one side gets 1 kill and dragon into win"-games, because you could go all-in with elixiers and cheap base stats to come back into the game. This wouldnt be a nobrainer though because the other side can allways stall out an all-in attempt.
- almost the same thing as above: cheaper finished items are not costefficient enough to warrant stacking a few of them to get ready for forcing an early teambattle etc. which makes the game more dull.
2. Content
- Give Progamers a plattform to share their knowledge! There are alot of very good players that provide good content for the community. Instead of only showing your funny champion spotlights, invite specialists and make good videos about things that concern the community. If you feel that a champion isn't as appreciated as it should be then invite someone real good who plays it and make a short video with them explaining why the champion is good and how to use it well. If you think that a champion is played alot and "frustrating" to play against then invite someone who knows how to deal with that champion. If you can pull this off then I foresee a dramatic change in the community's mindset with every of those videos.
Not so much a change, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP HOMOGENIZING POWER CURVES.
Some champions are better late. Some are better early. The differences are what makes the game interesting. Annie is a the best example. She was strong early, weaker late. Now? She has the same power curve as every other ap champion in the game. And its not good for the health of the game.
Oh, and reduce the damage minions do to champs. Its ridiculously stupid at the moment. It makes playing aggressive MUCH riskier because they do more damage to you then you do to the lane opponent. Something like minions do half damage to champions. That way their push power is the same but they dont mess with early laning as much.
Riot~ I would love to bitch about balance but I am a noob and would have no idea what I am talking about.
However, one thing I really liked were the Chinese splash art and they are so hard to come by now DX. Do you think you could give us to option to choose between Western and Eastern?
On September 07 2011 04:56 Two_DoWn wrote: Oh, and reduce the damage minions do to champs. Its ridiculously stupid at the moment. It makes playing aggressive MUCH riskier because they do more damage to you then you do to the lane opponent. Something like minions do half damage to champions. That way their push power is the same but they dont mess with early laning as much.
@RIOT please ignore this suggestion, l0l
str8 tarded
also, from RIOT Marcou
The new ladder reward tiers are:
* Platinum (Top 0.2%) - 1900 and above (3v3: 1700+, pre-made 5v5: 1750+): a framed summoner icon in platinum, a platinum banner in summoner profile, a platinum forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Gold (Top 3%) - Between 1520 and 1899 (3v3: 1490-1699, pre-made 5v5: 1500-1749) : a framed summoner icon in gold, a gold banner in your summoner profile, a gold forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Silver (Top 10%) - Between 1400 and 1519 (3v3: 1410-1489, pre-made 5v5: 1410-1499) : a framed summoner icon in silver and a silver banner in your summoner profile * Bronze (Top 25%) - Between 1249 and 1399 (3v3: 1249-1409, pre-made 5v5: 1249-1409) : a bronze banner in your summoner profile
and yet, at 1508 rating in ranked 5s, i still see silver icon. likewise, on a friend's account, in his solo he's got 1519 and a gold icon. which is the definitive line for cut-offs, the icon color in-game, or the elo # falling in the ranges listed by Marcou?
EDIT: phreak seems to have answered this:
If your summoner profile happens to show Platinum, you'll still get it.
There are three possible cases:
You show what you are supposed to get: You get it. You show a badge lower than what you are supposed to get: You get the higher one You show a badge higher than the one you are supposed to get: You get the higher one.
also, can you implement a timer in summoner profiles that tells how long you have before you start elo-decaying?
Riot. I like you alot and all, but can you explain to me why Tristana has AP ratio's. Really good ones might I add. I am no expert but I am pretty sure that could maybe use a retool at this point or at least I dunno make her Q something someone might take before 7-8. Whats up with that?
On September 07 2011 04:42 Two_DoWn wrote: Not so much a change, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP HOMOGENIZING POWER CURVES.
Some champions are better late. Some are better early. The differences are what makes the game interesting. Annie is a the best example. She was strong early, weaker late. Now? She has the same power curve as every other ap champion in the game. And its not good for the health of the game.
Half of the problem isn't just homogenization of power curves, but that they all end up looking like this.
Power | |----------------------------- | | | | |----------------------------- Time
The best champions are freaking awesome early, mid and late.
Most of the homogenization I've been seeing is to make all AP/AD carries too similar. There's plenty of variety in terms of bruisers, tanks and supports. But then everyone complains about LeBlanc being useless late, or Shaco, or Xin, when that should be perfectly fine and a part of your strategy.
On September 07 2011 04:56 Two_DoWn wrote: Oh, and reduce the damage minions do to champs. Its ridiculously stupid at the moment. It makes playing aggressive MUCH riskier because they do more damage to you then you do to the lane opponent. Something like minions do half damage to champions. That way their push power is the same but they dont mess with early laning as much.
* Platinum (Top 0.2%) - 1900 and above (3v3: 1700+, pre-made 5v5: 1750+): a framed summoner icon in platinum, a platinum banner in summoner profile, a platinum forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Gold (Top 3%) - Between 1520 and 1899 (3v3: 1490-1699, pre-made 5v5: 1500-1749) : a framed summoner icon in gold, a gold banner in your summoner profile, a gold forum badge and a special skin for Jarvan IV * Silver (Top 10%) - Between 1400 and 1519 (3v3: 1410-1489, pre-made 5v5: 1410-1499) : a framed summoner icon in silver and a silver banner in your summoner profile * Bronze (Top 25%) - Between 1249 and 1399 (3v3: 1249-1409, pre-made 5v5: 1249-1409) : a bronze banner in your summoner profile
and yet, at 1508 rating in ranked 5s, i still see silver icon. likewise, on a friend's account, in his solo he's got 1519 and a gold icon. which is the definitive line for cut-offs, the icon color in-game, or the elo # falling in the ranges listed by Marcou?
also, can you implement a timer in summoner profiles that tells how long you have before you start elo-decaying?
It's possibly based on the total spread of players' elo, and 1520 was the elo required for top 3% at the time Marcou posted it?
@Riot - can you please please leave the 6v6 stuff in? It's hilarious and goofy! :D (Make it straight up pickable, too!)
On September 07 2011 05:09 Seuss wrote: Most of the homogenization I've been seeing is to make all AP/AD carries too similar. There's plenty of variety in terms of bruisers, tanks and supports. But then everyone complains about LeBlanc being useless late, or Shaco, or Xin, when that should be perfectly fine and a part of your strategy.
The thing is, they always screw up balancing that. Either the champs are really strong at their peaks and people QQ (pre-nerf Pantheon), or they're too weak all around, so people just go with them being underpowered instead of trying to work them into a real strategy.
Surrender mechanic: -The surrender time-out defaults to "no" instead of "yes" + Show Spoiler +
On September 07 2011 02:09 STS17 wrote: Explain to me the logic behind the /surrender time-out defaulting to no instead of yes. If people want to keep playing the game they should have to actually take the time to say "yes, I want to keep playing this game" by clicking the no button instead of being able to sit there and wait. This also causes players who go afk, but have not yet been dropped from the game or marked afk, count as a surrender vote (because them being afk actually makes it harder to surrender a game with the current system)
Maybe they are too busy playing the game
But seriously, there will always be that guy on the team that is spamming /surrender every single time it's up in an even game. I usually let it time out to increase the amount of time he has to wait before starting a new vote
I think the default should be "no" for the rare case that someone is unable to see the vote for the duration (perhaps they alt-tabbed during a death, are using the bathroom, answering door, client froze, etc).
@ OP: I suggest that you keep the balance QQ and the mechanical/bugs stuff strictly separated.
I am against a change for the default surrender vote. Either people get disconnected for being afk or they will vote no just to piss you off anyways. On the other hand if you are trying to win but someone spams /surrender you can move the surrender vote popup out of vision and don't have to deal with it anymore.
A timer for my next first win of the day bonus in my profile would be nice.
If you go to your profile -> champions -> jungler you get WW, Fiddle, Nunu and Skarner. That list needs some serious updating.
I would like to have better game statistics. "damage dealt" is utterly useless. What we need is stuff like "damage dealt to champions". Or even better, a grid (or something similar) that lists precisely how much damage which champion dealt to which enemy. An even more sophisticated approach would include a time axis so that you could analyze how your damage output progressed over time. There also could be markers showing when people died on that time axis, so you can see when teamfights occured etc.
When you are in someone else's game and get the right to invite people, you can't invite them by right-clicking their name in a chat room or your friends list.
On September 07 2011 05:48 spinesheath wrote: If you go to your profile -> champions -> jungler you get WW, Fiddle, Nunu and Skarner. That list needs some serious updating.
To be fair, Riot has specifically said that they want the "jungler" tag to stay on heroes that are easy to start out jungling with on little experience and at low summoner levels. The only real problem with that is that Skarner takes significantly more effort to make work as a jungler than quite a few unlisted junglers.
So either add all the other common junglers, or get rid of Skarner.
If there are actually good suggestions, I'll see if I find any Designers/Live Team online when I log into NA Client sometime and encourage them to visit this thread.
But good ideas mind you.
Like, you can coherently argue with an MIT graduate and put forward a valid and convincing case.
May be hard to find someone since I only have 2 Design/Live on my FList. But I will try if there's a valid point.
On September 07 2011 06:47 MoonBear wrote: But good ideas mind you.
Like, you can coherently argue with an MIT graduate and put forward a valid and convincing case.
On September 07 2011 05:48 spinesheath wrote: When you are in someone else's game and get the right to invite people, you can't invite them by right-clicking their name in a chat room or your friends list.
Ability to rebind the new defensive ping hotkey.
I think I can argue appropriately for these two cases.
Re Invites: Hm. Really? Didn't know that. If you put something on the NA forums in the PvP Client Suggestions the Client Team will probably read it. Might not reply. But if they agree, it will be added to the huge backlog of good suggestions to work on.
Re Rebinding the Fallback Ping: This is happening next patch I think. Don't quote me. But they said it's being done.
Basicly everything that's in "Bugs" should be on the "needs to be done asap" list.
The "feature request" will be kinda like "What experienced gamers are missing in this game".
Both should be easy to forward lists without much to argue, all those are things that should have been in the game already imho.
The other categories are less clear with possibly multiple, solid, points of view.
@Moonbear: I'd say give this a few days so we can gather more stuff, then you can probably see if you can forward the first two categories including a nice "TL <3 riot"-greeting card and cookies.
I don't have a 'real' suggestion, but more of a question, regarding the EU West server.
For the longest time, players on EU (before the split) had to endure hours of waiting in the que, just to get a chance to play. And if we finally did manage to get in, there would be a 50% chance of playing on the US overflow servers, where the ping would be really annoying.
Anyway, they announced the split, and it looked like a brighter future. When the split finally occurred, we got rid of the que-waiting, which was an absolute blessing (there still is 4-5min que at peak hours, but that's nothing.). However, the overflow servers is still a problem at hand (this is for EU West btw. Not sure about EU Nordic & East). 50% of the time, we all end up on really bad servers with a high ping (and it's not my internet messing up, it's every single player in the current game that are having those issues). And besides that, there is a LOT of downtime. I think we had 3-4 issues just last week, which resulted in a lot of downtime, giving people leaves/losses without them being able to do anything about it.
I don't understand why there isn't an option for wanting to play on overflow servers with a high ping, or wait untill a proper server is available. And you can't just leave the game either, because you will get reported, and with the tribunal going, (which I think is amazing) you can't really dodge a ban. As the server split was announced, Riot said that the need for overflow servers wouldn't be necessary.
Seeing it from a players point of view, we hardly get any information regarding downtime (It is getting better though, I'll definitely give Riot that credit.). We see so much money being poured into the competetive scene, while the casual gamer wonders when they are going to spend money on better servers. As it is of right now, it feels like you would probably be better of getting yourself an US account, and just get used to the lag.
This is not a rant. I love the game, and I've spent endless hours playing it and having fun. But the stability is really bad at the moment and have been for the longest time, and that have putted me off playing it.
tl;dr - Riot should be more open about information regarding their downtime, and let the community know why there is still need for overflow servers, and when it will be fixed.
I think phyvo's point from the general thread regarding the impossibility of engineering a situation where two champions would want to split farm is something that should be fleshed out and presented to Riot.
To summarize with bullets:
Two identical champions in a lane, either AD or AP, will do more damage if all gold is funneled to one champion rather than shared.
This occurs because of how items multiply each others' effectiveness.
As this is true for identical champions, one can assume this effect is even stronger when champions are unidentical and scale unevenly.
Thus, trying to balance the game mathematically in order to encourage duos to share farm is a dead end.
I don't imagine phyvo has run his math for every single possible lane of two identical champions, but given the mathematical principles at work I'd be surprised if any of the champions proved different.
There's some exceptions.... for instance there ARE low cost items that happen to be very cost-effective and UNIQUE for the user. Best example of this would be sheen.
Sheen provides a LOT of extra burst and it wouldn't be wrong to say that 2 sheens provide more burst overall than straight up damage or AP items for the same cost. Problem is, you can't stack 2 sheens on 1 guy so in a lane like alistar poppy, having 1 person farm and buy sheen, and then letting the other person farm up their sheen, would be the way to go; In this case, having a second sheen is more burst damage to the team than having that 1260g being funnelled.
There's a caveat phyvo carefully stated that was lost in my summarized bullets; the sharing duo does more damage before the funneling duo's farmer finishes their first major item, as well as more damage after that champion completes their build. 2520g not being enough to finish a major item, two Sheens outperforming Sheen + Blasting Wand + Amplifying Tome or NLR + Blasting Wand is not unexpected.
Still, items like Sheen definitely skew things, which is good because having multiple good options is better than none. Riot, however, has historically tried to solve the "problem" (which not everyone agrees it is) by nerfing champions who function well without farm rather than introduce Sheen-esque items.
It also straight up doesn't apply when the goal of neither duo laner is to be a big damage dealer in fights. Hence why when you saw double tank or tank+tanky support bot lanes when people still played them on US (e.g. Blitz/Shen) you'd get farm splits. It wasn't perfect 50:50 because one person needed a bit more baseline farm, but it was split to a fair extent.
Personally I think these "farm-split" issues would go away once we can get people playing AD carries in solo lanes again. AD carries are the only champs that benefit fully from multiplicative stat scaling. The benefit for AP champs diminishes post-DCap because they don't have multiplicative offense stats comparable to crit and attack speed (CDR is capped from blue), and tanky champs building primarily survivability cap out on how useful that survivability is, so at some point it becomes better to let the support get some farm for utility items.
On September 07 2011 08:22 Seuss wrote: I don't imagine phyvo has run his math for every single possible lane of two identical champions, but given the mathematical principles at work I'd be surprised if any of the champions proved different.
Well, basically what I did initially was I proved that if you channeled farm to one person you'd get more AP than if you split farm until the one person couldn't buy effective items anymore. So it's more or less proved for all AP carries. AD carries the whole thing is only *more* obvious
It's true that two people could "cheese" cost effective items like sheen, bruta, or HG to try and get an early advantage, but the truth is that AD carries and some supports like Taric do this already with doran's stacking so it's not exactly something new.
On September 07 2011 09:08 Southlight wrote: I dunno what the point of that argument is because so far in LoL there is no duplicate pick mode.
Because if it's ideal for two duplicate champions to not split farm then it's even more ideal for two champs that scale differently to not split farm. Moreover it shows that even if you made all champs identical in scaling/utility you *still* wouldn't necessarily rid the world of 0 CS support. And if you made the support scale better than the carry all you've done is made the support the carry.
Right now supports scale worse than carries so the choice is obvious.
On September 07 2011 09:12 TheYango wrote: It also straight up doesn't apply when the goal of neither duo laner is to be a big damage dealer in fights. Hence why when you saw double tank or tank+tanky support bot lanes when people still played them on US (e.g. Blitz/Shen) you'd get farm splits. It wasn't perfect 50:50 because one person needed a bit more baseline farm, but it was split to a fair extent.
That's kinda true, though I'd *never* underestimate how much a well farmed tanky type who doesn't die can just screw your team over (see: singed, Cho'gath) and there's no reason to put two complete non-farmers down botlane and "waste" all that farm. If you did your best bet would be baseline efficient items and/or aura stacking to transfer some of that farm to your solo lane carries. _
Bugs: I'm sick and tired of Yorick and Wukong Qs not proccing lifesteal or even spell vamp. Wukong Q doesn't even apply tiamat, the whole thing is ridiculous and I'm frustrated since I reported these bugs before on the official forums and nothing happened except that they fixed Blitzcrank.
They might be working on it already, but still, le sigh...
On September 07 2011 09:15 phyvo wrote: Because if it's ideal for two duplicate champions to split farm then it's even more ideal for two champs that scale differently to split farm. Moreover it shows that even if you made all champs identical in scaling/utility you *still* wouldn't necessarily rid the world of 0 CS support. And if you made the support scale better than the carry all you've done is made the support the carry.
Right now supports scale worse than carries so the choice is obvious.
So you're against different heroes performing different roles and having different item needs and different power scales. I hope you're not the one screaming about the converging power scales ala Annie.
Amazingly, Morg and Kennen and such only NEED one item to do their job. This makes them automatically less farm dependant than ye traditional ranged AD. A similar case is made for heroes like even nuking Cow (yes, astonishingly most people used to play him as a heavy damager, even before his rework), Blitzcrank, and so on and so forth. By contrast heroes like Ashe require more farm than Tristana to output the same amount of damage, although their difference in skillsets make that necessity debatable.
I do not see at all why arguing about two of the same hero in a game that currently does not allow it and is clearly not balanced for it is relevant at all.
On September 07 2011 09:15 phyvo wrote: That's kinda true, though I'd *never* underestimate how much a well farmed tanky type who doesn't die can just screw your team over (see: singed, Cho'gath) and there's no reason to put two complete non-farmers down botlane and "waste" all that farm. If you did your best bet would be baseline efficient items and/or aura stacking to transfer some of that farm to your solo lane carries.
That's what I'm saying. Someone like Shen or Blitzcrank has some baseline items he needs, and then can focus on just getting enough farm to keep up with damage in fights. The farm on your support translates into Aegis/Soul Shroud/WotA, which are ridiculously cost-effective.
If you're competing with the multiplicative scaling of an AD carry, there's pretty much no comparison, even with super cost-effective aura items. If you're competing with defensive tanky dudes or even some AP carries, it becomes more justifiable.
Fiddlesticks's kit does many things better than him (Terrify is ranged with the same duration & crowstorm > tremors). He needs ad ratios on his stuff so his passive is more useful (see Galio). Want MR per level base stats like every other tank (see Every Other Tank).
On September 07 2011 09:46 Neos wrote: Buff rammus. + Show Spoiler +
Fiddlesticks's kit does many things better than him (Terrify is ranged with the same duration & crowstorm > tremors). He needs ad ratios on his stuff so his passive is more useful (see Galio). Want MR per level base stats like every other tank (see Every Other Tank).
Ok.
Also, tell all the new guys that join the CSS crew that if they don't shape up, I'll come visit them. WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
On September 07 2011 09:15 phyvo wrote: That's kinda true, though I'd *never* underestimate how much a well farmed tanky type who doesn't die can just screw your team over (see: singed, Cho'gath) and there's no reason to put two complete non-farmers down botlane and "waste" all that farm. If you did your best bet would be baseline efficient items and/or aura stacking to transfer some of that farm to your solo lane carries.
That's what I'm saying. Someone like Shen or Blitzcrank has some baseline items he needs, and then can focus on just getting enough farm to keep up with damage in fights. The farm on your support translates into Aegis/Soul Shroud/WotA, which are ridiculously cost-effective.
If you're competing with the multiplicative scaling of an AD carry, there's pretty much no comparison, even with super cost-effective aura items. If you're competing with defensive tanky dudes or even some AP carries, it becomes more justifiable.
I don't think it's quite that justifiable, especially in the case of AP carries. I mean if you put something like, say, Cho/Janna bot there really is no excuse for Janna stealing Cho's farm even if he builds full tank and I still think any sort of 0 cs + tank lane will still win out over a split farm tank lane.
Moreover, as great as auras are, if they're only benefiting one member of your team that's not really an effective use of botlane farm even if the receiver is one of your solo carries.
At this point I'm just spouting 1200 elo opinion, but from having played the game for a year and watching tournaments I don't honestly see a reason *to* split your farm except in certain cases like the aforementioned double sheen play.
On September 07 2011 09:46 Neos wrote: Buff rammus. + Show Spoiler +
Fiddlesticks's kit does many things better than him (Terrify is ranged with the same duration & crowstorm > tremors). He needs ad ratios on his stuff so his passive is more useful (see Galio). Want MR per level base stats like every other tank (see Every Other Tank).
He doesn't need AD ratios, AD ratios make you ignore that kind of passive and build AD. What you want is armor ratios, he has one armor ratio on W already. I'd love more armor ratios on malph/rammus ultis though.
Galio and Leona also don't get MR per level and like Rammus they get MR from skills.
On September 07 2011 09:15 phyvo wrote: Because if it's ideal for two duplicate champions to split farm then it's even more ideal for two champs that scale differently to split farm. Moreover it shows that even if you made all champs identical in scaling/utility you *still* wouldn't necessarily rid the world of 0 CS support. And if you made the support scale better than the carry all you've done is made the support the carry.
Right now supports scale worse than carries so the choice is obvious.
So you're against different heroes performing different roles and having different item needs and different power scales. I hope you're not the one screaming about the converging power scales ala Annie.
Amazingly, Morg and Kennen and such only NEED one item to do their job. This makes them automatically less farm dependant than ye traditional ranged AD. A similar case is made for heroes like even nuking Cow (yes, astonishingly most people used to play him as a heavy damager, even before his rework), Blitzcrank, and so on and so forth. By contrast heroes like Ashe require more farm than Tristana to output the same amount of damage, although their difference in skillsets make that necessity debatable.
I do not see at all why arguing about two of the same hero in a game that currently does not allow it and is clearly not balanced for it is relevant at all.
Sorry Southlight I mistyped there. I meant to say "ideal to not split farm", no wonder I'm confusing you.
What you say is exactly true. I'm not actually arguing against most of what you're saying.
What I'm trying to say (and failing as I'm going post crazy and trying to respond to everyone) is that you don't need a support champion to be less farm dependent than your carry for 0 CS to work. Two champions of identical farm dependency would still want to go 0 CS/carry style because of the way carry items work in this game. If the "carry" needs only one item to do his job it doesn't matter because if Kennen gets the farm to add Rabadon's to that hourglass the whole duo lane gets more AP (and thus more damage) than if his 0 farm partner took the next bit of farm. Moreover, if he keeps getting farm he can get tankier/harder to kill (more damage) *and* later a void staff so that you can't build as well against his damage.
As a result, I posit that the 0 CS/carry lane does more damage and will be effective in team fights than if you had split the farm.
Your point is important, and given enough nerfs I must admit it'd be possible for a Kennen/Morg lane to trade off rushing hourglasses and be effective enough. But I don't see Riot moving in this direction or approaching the problem in a way that actually promotes that style.
On September 07 2011 09:57 phyvo wrote: I don't think it's quite that justifiable, especially in the case of AP carries. I mean if you put something like, say, Cho/Janna bot there really is no excuse for Janna stealing Cho's farm even if he builds full tank and I still think any sort of 0 cs + tank lane will still win out over a split farm tank lane.
Moreover, as great as auras are, if they're only benefiting one member of your team that's not really an effective use of botlane farm even if the receiver is one of your solo carries.
Obviously it's situational, but it's honestly not too inconceivable to come up with a reasonable team where all 4 non-support champs can make use of WotA, Soul Shroud, or Aegis.
WotA, Soul Shroud, and Aegis are all about as efficient as similar-cost items if you only count their stats on yourself and one other person (Aegis is actually reasonably efficient just for yourself, especially since there aren't many other mid-tier-cost defense items).
On September 07 2011 04:58 Shiragaku wrote: Riot~ I would love to bitch about balance but I am a noob and would have no idea what I am talking about.
However, one thing I really liked were the Chinese splash art and they are so hard to come by now DX. Do you think you could give us to option to choose between Western and Eastern?
YES!!! PLEASE!!!! and could you consider balancing 3v3 so it won't be trynd vs.trynd ignite fight at the lower levels? I'm tired of being owned by pre-made teams. :/yeh, I'm a noob.
On September 07 2011 05:06 Parnage wrote: Riot. I like you alot and all, but can you explain to me why Tristana has AP ratio's. Really good ones might I add. I am no expert but I am pretty sure that could maybe use a retool at this point or at least I dunno make her Q something someone might take before 7-8. Whats up with that?
When I play as trist, I use upgrade q early to farm and to hit champions who over-extend. Its just your playstlye
Nah I've actually seen on stream and ingame, Sion stuns, Soraka silences, Kass Null Spheres clearly hitting Fiddle in the middle of his channel (not at the end), he teleports, the ult goes off, and then he is silenced/stunned/whatever, which is NOT working as intended as far as I can tell.
I had this happen to me in a game earlier as Taric. Stunned a Katarina who shunpoed into melee range of me - dazzle went off, mana and damage taken, but her Death Lotus went full duration.
I don't know if it's an easily-reproducible bug, but it's a pretty serious one.
Wait, but if we were to choose between Western and eastern art...and if Eastern looks better, then everyone will choose Eastern. And does just the art change, or do the in-game pixels also change...btw I think riot should charge a Rp/Ip fee if that is made available.
Something which is really bothering me in matches that go to late game is when just one of your inhibs goes down and you're stuck in your base. Since creeps get ~100+ HP when you lose that first inhib, you can't even try to contest baron/dragon/whatever outside your base without the threat of all your other lanes losing towers.
I swear this has been a recentish change (past few months?), but when Riot is trying to remove passive gameplay, this -forces- the team already down to just sit in their base. Very counter productive.
Creeps have always been stronger when you have one of your opponents' inhibs down. It might be a bigger difference than in the past after the creep changes a while back (particularly the more common cannon creeps) but it's not precisely new.
Nah I've actually seen on stream and ingame, Sion stuns, Soraka silences, Kass Null Spheres clearly hitting Fiddle in the middle of his channel (not at the end), he teleports, the ult goes off, and then he is silenced/stunned/whatever, which is NOT working as intended as far as I can tell.
I had this happen to me in a game earlier as Taric. Stunned a Katarina who shunpoed into melee range of me - dazzle went off, mana and damage taken, but her Death Lotus went full duration.
I don't know if it's an easily-reproducible bug, but it's a pretty serious one.
If someone can find an up to date replay or video of it happening I'll add it to the OP. Stuff that only happens in isolated circumstances is like the bane of any team working on bugfixes. We really need to show a case when it actually happens. (unlike e.g. the Karma thing which everyone with 2 minutes of his time can verify)
(Sidenote, please try and keep comparisons between rammus, fiddlesticks and marcou to a minimum. =P)
That thing bugs on me every 3 days making it unable for me to see the bottom 2 friend folders in my list. Which, by coincidence, is the TL.eu team and Teamliquid ; ;
Moonbear, why doesn't riot force eject people who are AFK at champ select and don't pick a champion?
[...] @Moonbear and rest of TL to discuss : Do you think it's correct that when summoner DC's BOTH sides receive announcement ?
Re Forcing AFK to quit at Champ Select: I remember there was a reason why it's not done, but I can't remember what that reason was. It was something to do with queues. It can be done though with a little bit of code. I think it was something to do with if someone had chosen a champion, expected the load screen then went off to the toilet and then re-queued and had queue pop while they were away. They do have alternative code stored away though.
Re Both Teams have DC Announced: Coding can always be changed. The question is, what alternative do you suggest? This sort of decision would be Morello/Zileas level. So pretty senior. You'd have to give a really good reason. But if you can, they'd listen.
Well Morello/Zileas could ask themselves : how does game benefit from this function ? What are the benefits for each side when DC'd summoner gets announced ?
5 Player side : Push / farm safer , take objectives ( Dragon, Baron , Towers ) , force teamfights . Not to mention boost to morale .....
4 Player side : Play defensive close to base/ turrets . Give up objectives . Loss of morale -> QQ
What purpose global DC announcements serve currently ? As all it does atm is put 4 ppl team into even bigger disadvantage....
TL:DR make DC announcements only team sided . Also consider some new announcement like if player has been idle 2minutes , so you at least know you are possible 4x and adjust play stile.
Off topic comparison : Football game where commentator constantly reminds both teams that team's A goalkeeper is exousted . That really benefits the game .....
Do you think it's correct that when summoner DC's BOTH sides receive announcement ? What purpose global DC announcements serve currently ? As all it does atm is put 4 ppl team into even bigger disadvantage.....
Sugestion : Make DC announcements only team sided . Also consider some new announcement like if player has been idle 2minutes , so you at least know you aren't all 5x present and paying attention to game.
I could imagine that this is the same bug that also allows stuff like 2 people insta-CC-ing each other (like Soraka vs Soraka both end up silenced). I would guess that because of delays and spell queues or whatever stuff there is, spells enter a phase where they can't be canceled anymore but have not been cast yet. If the CC hits during that time the spell still is cast but any channeling that follows after that is unaffected because the CC hit before the channeling started.
Or it is completely different, how would I know the inner workings of the LoL engine. I sure as hell won't disassemble that shit.
special piece on SEA and PH (and possibly TW in the near future)
hi riot. i used to play on NA back around december 2009. when SEA was released, i was pretty excited about it, since sub 25ms is a dream come true for real nerds like me. it's been about a year now and SEA isn't quite what i expected it to be.
for one, patches take one heck of a long time to arrive for SEA. this is something that's pretty annoying, but still pretty much tolerable. (as of writing talon isn't out, and won't be till 2 days from now)
another problem (or in fact THE problem) is player population. since SEA's population is so small, we get a much narrower band of players at the higher end of the Elo spectrum. this causes ranked games to be a joke most of the time, where you can have the captain be 2k elo (the highest on SEA right now) paired with an unranked player (or players). anyone who's a fan of TT will also, sadly, never get to enjoy it since no one queues for that. same goes for arranged 5s ranked. queue times for anything in general are long.
now i don't know what kind of contract or deal riot made with garena (the provider for SEA, PH and TW), but i hope on riot's end, something can be done to help remedy this issue. there have been calls for extra rewards for queueing ranked, but so far nothing has materialized. i have dreams of a regional server (kinda like a tourneyish realm) that's accessible for players of SEA/PH/TW of a certain standard/Elo, but i doubt it'll ever happen. i don't expect that anything will change from my writing this short piece, but it does help for me to get it out. peace
A clan system, where the clan receives an ELO. It encourages people to play 5v5, which is how the game is inteneded to be played. You can still have the team ELO ladder as well making clan and 5 exact players two different ladders.
In such a team based game it's pretty amazing there is no clan/guild system. If the competitive scene is to grow in LoL. This is something I believe is quite necessary.
made a post requesting hotkeys for shop menu navigation. would like opinions, upvotes, downvotes, w/e
edit: regarding the clan system, that could be super useful for tournaments so you dont HAVE TO REGISTER FOR EVERY FUCKING WEBSITE IN THE GALAXY and instead tournies can just pull 'clan' rosters.
made a post requesting hotkeys for shop menu navigation. would like opinions, upvotes, downvotes, w/e
edit: regarding the clan system, that could be super useful for tournaments so you dont HAVE TO REGISTER FOR EVERY FUCKING WEBSITE IN THE GALAXY and instead tournies can just pull 'clan' rosters.
I logged into my ancient Beta account to upvote this.
Moonbear, why doesn't riot force eject people who are AFK at champ select and don't pick a champion?
[...] @Moonbear and rest of TL to discuss : Do you think it's correct that when summoner DC's BOTH sides receive announcement ?
Re Forcing AFK to quit at Champ Select: I remember there was a reason why it's not done, but I can't remember what that reason was. It was something to do with queues. It can be done though with a little bit of code. I think it was something to do with if someone had chosen a champion, expected the load screen then went off to the toilet and then re-queued and had queue pop while they were away. They do have alternative code stored away though.
Re Both Teams have DC Announced: Coding can always be changed. The question is, what alternative do you suggest? This sort of decision would be Morello/Zileas level. So pretty senior. You'd have to give a really good reason. But if you can, they'd listen.
Well Morello/Zileas could ask themselves : how does game benefit from this function ? What are the benefits for each side when DC'd summoner gets announced ?
5 Player side : Push / farm safer , take objectives ( Dragon, Baron , Towers ) , force teamfights . Not to mention boost to morale .....
4 Player side : Play defensive close to base/ turrets . Give up objectives . Loss of morale -> QQ
What purpose global DC announcements serve currently ? As all it does atm is put 4 ppl team into even bigger disadvantage....
TL:DR make DC announcements only team sided . Also consider some new announcement like if player has been idle 2minutes , so you at least know you are possible 4x and adjust play stile.
Off topic comparison : Football game where commentator constantly reminds both teams that team's A goalkeeper is exousted . That really benefits the game .....
Do you think it's correct that when summoner DC's BOTH sides receive announcement ? What purpose global DC announcements serve currently ? As all it does atm is put 4 ppl team into even bigger disadvantage.....
Sugestion : Make DC announcements only team sided . Also consider some new announcement like if player has been idle 2minutes , so you at least know you aren't all 5x present and paying attention to game.
Please make sure to skim through the OP before you try and add new stuff. All the above is already in there.
On September 07 2011 16:44 mercurial wrote: Why has no one mentioned the friends list yet?
That thing bugs on me every 3 days making it unable for me to see the bottom 2 friend folders in my list. Which, by coincidence, is the TL.eu team and Teamliquid ; ;
What exactly do you mean? I know of some random bugs where the list get's like stretched out but that's fixed by closing/opening folders, so it's nothing major. Can you get me a better description and a screenshot please? I'll add it then.
On September 07 2011 17:42 spinesheath wrote: I could imagine that this is the same bug that also allows stuff like 2 people insta-CC-ing each other (like Soraka vs Soraka both end up silenced). I would guess that because of delays and spell queues or whatever stuff there is, spells enter a phase where they can't be canceled anymore but have not been cast yet. If the CC hits during that time the spell still is cast but any channeling that follows after that is unaffected because the CC hit before the channeling started.
Or it is completely different, how would I know the inner workings of the LoL engine. I sure as hell won't disassemble that shit.
That sounds pretty plausible. Still need replays/videos on that "I silenced Fiddle/Karthus when they channeled but it happened anyway"-"bug".
@nyx: Your post sounds pretty ranty, also I doubt that is stuff they can do much about in a short timeframe. Doesn't exactly sound as the type of thing where we as a community can give easy suggestions on how to solve this. :S
@barbsq: Cheers, will add the link to the OP. I'll stay away from adding those clan/team suggestions right now. iirc riot said that there will be some changes anyway when S2 comes out, so we might as well wait those few weeks.
I'll make an SS next time it happens. Its not so much stretching its more like alot of blanc spots that won't allow me to scroll propperly, close/open folders and only allows me to see 50% (ish) of all my 'friends'
Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
I really agree with alot of these especially after game stats being so bland
Like there should be an in depth stats in match history the stats we have now have so much useless information stuff like Killed X most, killed by X most would be cool
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
Its much more sensitive to anything you do now. Stand perfectly still and dont do a thing to not get interrupted. Even browsing the shop seems to make it break.
addition: Make it so that when a projectile comes your way (targetted, like for example a normal attack from Trist or Ashe) and you flash out before it hits, it wont hit you and dud.
Right now flashing out of a near-death situation can cost your flash + death anyway
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
Its much more sensitive to anything you do now. Stand perfectly still and dont do a thing to not get interrupted. Even browsing the shop seems to make it break.
addition: Make it so that when a projectile comes your way (targetted, like for example a normal attack from Trist or Ashe) and you flash out before it hits, it wont hit you and dud.
Right now flashing out of a near-death situation can cost your flash + death anyway
Flash used 2 be imba, its not anymore. Don't change it back to make it imba again.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
Its much more sensitive to anything you do now. Stand perfectly still and dont do a thing to not get interrupted. Even browsing the shop seems to make it break.
addition: Make it so that when a projectile comes your way (targetted, like for example a normal attack from Trist or Ashe) and you flash out before it hits, it wont hit you and dud.
Right now flashing out of a near-death situation can cost your flash + death anyway
Flash used 2 be imba, its not anymore. Don't change it back to make it imba again.
to give more context to this, flash used to do this and was used as a free QSS to get out of targeted stuns/snares/CCs. flash is already the premier mobility skill, you dont have to make it more stupid.
Couple bugs regarding duo-queueing (and presumably queueing with a full team):
- The Start Game button will sometimes not enable when the second player joins a team, meaning you can not duo-queue in ranked since it believes there are insufficient (or too many, not sure which) players in the team to start the game.
I'm not entirely sure how to reproduce this but I believe it has something to do with the game not updating whatever counter it uses to determine how many players are in a party. I've had it happen when simply inviting the player to the game, then going back to the invite panel (without inviting someone else), or having one player leave the team and having to invite another / reinvite that person. I believe this is the same bug that allows 6v6 TT to work.
- Occasionally, one player will not be added to the queue when a team enters the queue together.
This one I have no idea how to reproduce, but it has caused my brother and I to lose a few hundred elo each by being forced to queue dodge in ranked since one of us is not added to the queue and the queue pops for the other before we realize. What's worse is the game thinks the other player (the one who wasn't queue'd) is in the game so if you play you are forced into a 4v5 since even restarting the client won't allow the other player to access the game and this assigns that player a leave and auto-loss.
Here is one which is unrelated to gameplay but causes a client crash:
If you disconnect due to temporary internet loss during a game and use the in-game reconnect feature, your out-of-game client will crash when you try to do pretty much anything after the game has ended.
Steps to Reproduce: 1. Join a game (must have more than one player in it so the game persists after a disconnect, it doesn't appear you can reconnect to a game with just you and bots in it) 2. Disconnect your internet and wait about 30 seconds 3. Reconnect your internet 4. When prompted to reconnect to the game do so 5. Finish the game 6. When returned to the client after the game, try to view your profile page 7. The client should freeze or crash
I believe this bug has to do with the client not reconnecting to the server when you tell the game to reconnect so the server is probably registering you as logged off / disconnected and terminating your session while the client thinks that session is still active. Then again, I have no idea what your implementation looks like so this is pure speculation ^^
I am pulling the steps to reproduce from memory, so they may not be entirely correct. When I get back from classes this evening I will try to see if I can nail down the steps a little more concretely and also try and find out how to reproduce the other two bugs if I have time.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
I believe the post below yours was the answer to this one. It's annoying, but dealable with imo. In case you think it's something different, please try and find ways to reproduce it / videos / replays of it.
I also added that "minion bug on reconnect"-bug, wondered myself why we didn't think of that earlier.
Currently, if you disconnect for any reason and the "Would you like to reconnect? Yes/No"-dialogue pops out and you press "yes", you reconnect, but your vision of minions is flawed to the point where the game is unplayable. Basicly you have "vision" of minions who were alive when you disconnected, but can neither interact with them nor see champions near them. It creates huge amounts of confusion and the only way to fix it is to End Game -> Reconnect.
This bug is hugely annoying (especially in ranked) since it causes reconnects to last multiple minutes longer than they should be.
@STS17: Great points and perfect descriptions, added all of them.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
This is being looked into.
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: Couple bugs regarding duo-queueing (and presumably queueing with a full team):
- The Start Game button will sometimes not enable when the second player joins a team, meaning you can not duo-queue in ranked since it believes there are insufficient (or too many, not sure which) players in the team to start the game.
I am not aware of this. Does quitting and remaking the team?
Exploit for 6v6 TT is different. That requires client-side manipulation.
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: - Occasionally, one player will not be added to the queue when a team enters the queue together. [...]
If you can get more detail on this, I would be very grateful.
I've often wondered how it would change the game if Riot added Templates that affected gold income you could pick before the game, such as Assist, Jungle, and Standard. Meaning the Assist would be granted some gold for being around creep kills, the Jungle would gain bonus gold for killing Jungle creeps, and the Standard would have the regular gold income for killing creeps. Jungle and Assist would have penalties on the regular minions. The idea is that Jungling and Support would be more fun if you had a better gold income.
The numbers are rough guesses, but I was thinking something small like:
Standard: No Changes Jungle: +10 Gold per Monster, -5 Gold per Minion Assist: 5 Assist Gold per Minion, -5 Gold per Minion
I imagine it would mess with the balance considerably though and might be more trouble then it's worth. It's likely that it's not Riot's intention at all to do anything like this because there is already a ton of pre-game customization. However it's brought up time and time again that people prefer the Carry roles and at least personally it's because I hate being so item starved when I'm Support or Jungle.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: Couple bugs regarding duo-queueing (and presumably queueing with a full team):
- The Start Game button will sometimes not enable when the second player joins a team, meaning you can not duo-queue in ranked since it believes there are insufficient (or too many, not sure which) players in the team to start the game.
I am not aware of this. Does quitting and remaking the team?
Exploit for 6v6 TT is different. That requires client-side manipulation.
On September 08 2011 00:39 STS17 wrote: - Occasionally, one player will not be added to the queue when a team enters the queue together. [...]
If you can get more detail on this, I would be very grateful.
Yes MoonBear, you're forced to quit the party and remake in order to be able to start a game.
Also, I will try and figure out how to reproduce the second one, but like I said I'm really not certain. It might have something to do with the host starting the game "too quickly" (i.e. as soon as the second player hits accept and the button is enabled) or it may have to do with internet instability. Though this is pure speculation I'm afraid.
I experienced this one mostly at my home with my brother where our wireless connection was...fickle... at best. Unfortunately, we're both at college now and are ~400 miles apart so getting to test it will be more difficult since our schedules are so different.
It could be as simple as the player's client never getting the message that he's in a queue so he just sits in the party invite screen. Is the server-client connection reliable? In other words, if a message is sent but never received, will the sender (eventually) know that it was not received?
Some things to try though: Invite a player, as soon as you see he's accepted, join the queue. See if he goes with you.
Invite a player, after he accepts have him disconnect his internet briefly, while his is disconnected, try queueing up, see if the server things he is in your game when the queue pops.
On September 07 2011 18:17 icemanzdoinwork wrote: Basically a suggestion to make 5v5 used more.
A clan system, where the clan receives an ELO. It encourages people to play 5v5, which is how the game is inteneded to be played. You can still have the team ELO ladder as well making clan and 5 exact players two different ladders.
In such a team based game it's pretty amazing there is no clan/guild system. If the competitive scene is to grow in LoL. This is something I believe is quite necessary.
I think if they add leagues, like in SC2, it will make it better. But that's just me. What do you guys think?
On September 07 2011 04:42 Two_DoWn wrote: Not so much a change, but PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP HOMOGENIZING POWER CURVES.
Some champions are better late. Some are better early. The differences are what makes the game interesting. Annie is a the best example. She was strong early, weaker late. Now? She has the same power curve as every other ap champion in the game. And its not good for the health of the game.
I support this 100%.
Also pls dont make so many balance patches. The community is not as bad/dumb as you think. We will figure out stuff if you let us.
When you are channeling 'e' as Garen and use your ultimate on someone while still spinning, if they flash out of range Garen will still cast his ult on them regardless how far out of range they are
I was hoping that we could customize the recommended items list. It's not a lot of hassle to go through the menu but I feel it would be streamlined if the summoner could pre-determine what items appear in the list. (A lot of the recommended items are pretty redundant anyway)
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
Its much more sensitive to anything you do now. Stand perfectly still and dont do a thing to not get interrupted. Even browsing the shop seems to make it break.
addition: Make it so that when a projectile comes your way (targetted, like for example a normal attack from Trist or Ashe) and you flash out before it hits, it wont hit you and dud.
Right now flashing out of a near-death situation can cost your flash + death anyway
Uh, you're aware that they deliberately took out flash popping projectiles because it used to do what you're suggesting, and was absolutely ridiculous? Imagine popping a tower shot during a dive, or taric/sion's stun projectile, etc. This shit happened constantly at top elo, and consistently (but not as well-calculated to be so brutally effective) at low elo.
Edit: I wasn't just ninja'd, I forgot to post this hours ago. ahaha..ha...oops.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
Its much more sensitive to anything you do now. Stand perfectly still and dont do a thing to not get interrupted. Even browsing the shop seems to make it break.
addition: Make it so that when a projectile comes your way (targetted, like for example a normal attack from Trist or Ashe) and you flash out before it hits, it wont hit you and dud.
Right now flashing out of a near-death situation can cost your flash + death anyway
They deliberately changed this because it was too powerful to flash during a towerdive. Projectile popping with flash was a great part of the game, but now that it's out, I hope it stays out, because it makes outplaying scrubs that are too dumb to know when they're dead and flash anyway that much easier.
On September 08 2011 12:28 Eishi_Ki wrote: I was hoping that we could customize the recommended items list. It's not a lot of hassle to go through the menu but I feel it would be streamlined if the summoner could pre-determine what items appear in the list. (A lot of the recommended items are pretty redundant anyway)
On September 08 2011 12:28 Eishi_Ki wrote: I was hoping that we could customize the recommended items list. It's not a lot of hassle to go through the menu but I feel it would be streamlined if the summoner could pre-determine what items appear in the list. (A lot of the recommended items are pretty redundant anyway)
On September 08 2011 12:15 RoninShogun wrote: When you are channeling 'e' as Garen and use your ultimate on someone while still spinning, if they flash out of range Garen will still cast his ult on them regardless how far out of range they are
On September 08 2011 12:15 RoninShogun wrote: When you are channeling 'e' as Garen and use your ultimate on someone while still spinning, if they flash out of range Garen will still cast his ult on them regardless how far out of range they are
u cant cast ur ult while spinning -.-;;
Not quite what he meant - Pretty sure he meant if you click your ult just before your spin ends (so it's "queued up") and they flash (also before spin ends) the ult will still go off, even though they're out of range. I'd go test this, but servers are kaputz.
Edit: It's also possible RoninShogun is not aware that Garen's ult range is actually pretty reasonable, like 500? or so.
On September 08 2011 12:28 Eishi_Ki wrote: I was hoping that we could customize the recommended items list. It's not a lot of hassle to go through the menu but I feel it would be streamlined if the summoner could pre-determine what items appear in the list. (A lot of the recommended items are pretty redundant anyway)
has been converted to use the new API. So you should be all set.
Whilst this is good and all (and I appreciate you linking me to it), I would just rather Riot supported something like this and made it a helluva lot more simple to do by just simply including it in the client.
On September 07 2011 17:43 mercurial wrote: You mean like Tristana jumping after getting rooted? :D
LOL, I love doing that. I think if the user jumps before getting stunned, she jumps and is stunned directly afterwards
Depends, if you get hit before you're jumping (with maokai or so) then the root duration lasts from when he hits you till it ends, during the jump the counter will be going down.
With dazzle or so you'll get hit after you jump so it'll apply the duration at that point.
Currently, if you disconnect for any reason and the "Would you like to reconnect? Yes/No"-dialogue pops out and you press "yes", you reconnect, but your vision of minions is flawed to the point where the game is unplayable. Basicly you have "vision" of minions who were alive when you disconnected, but can neither interact with them nor see champions near them. It creates huge amounts of confusion and the only way to fix it is to End Game -> Reconnect.
This bug is hugely annoying (especially in ranked) since it causes reconnects to last multiple minutes longer than they should be.
Regarding this, they could also look into some more minion / graphics bugs like : Monster projectiles randomly follow you through whole game even without DC ( Dragons/Lizards fire sticks to you like glue during whole game + sound it makes is permanent ) also sometime summoners manage to stay under ignite animation through whole game .
Disconects : Some1 else has encountered being in summoner loading screen , you are 100% loaded , but one of other players loads slow and then stops at some % and stays like that . I waited 5 minutes and it still showed same % . I got fed up and restarted client then it told i still have game running and i conect to find out that all of players had been playing the whole time i was stuck in load screen. It hapened once more to me , but this time i restarted client asap and missed only few minutes of game . Other then that i have only 1 Dc in LoL due to lightning hitting my house .... doh
@r.Evo sry didn't expect you to add my post from GD to this OP on your own . +1 to you
Would love to have the Wukong bug fixed. If Wukong ulties certain champions while they are ultiing , the knockup will lead to a glitch where they said champions seem to "disapear" for 1-2mins... i've had this happen with Katarina and Fiddle... . xoxox Riot
On September 08 2011 18:01 DH_Remorse wrote: Would love to have the Wukong bug fixed. If Wukong ulties certain champions while they are ultiing , the knockup will lead to a glitch where they said champions seem to "disapear" for 1-2mins... i've had this happen with Katarina and Fiddle... . xoxox Riot
Isnt that called a kill? Or 'Death' in some cultures...
On September 08 2011 12:28 Eishi_Ki wrote: I was hoping that we could customize the recommended items list. It's not a lot of hassle to go through the menu but I feel it would be streamlined if the summoner could pre-determine what items appear in the list. (A lot of the recommended items are pretty redundant anyway)
has been converted to use the new API. So you should be all set.
Whilst this is good and all (and I appreciate you linking me to it), I would just rather Riot supported something like this and made it a helluva lot more simple to do by just simply including it in the client.
For now this should work well enough. If Riot can "outsource" some stuff by creating a simple API they can focus on the stuff the community can't do (spectator mode, proper replays, bug fixes etc), while we still get the stuff we want.
Eventually, they might work the best community made tools into the game, but that can wait.
On September 08 2011 18:01 DH_Remorse wrote: Would love to have the Wukong bug fixed. If Wukong ulties certain champions while they are ultiing , the knockup will lead to a glitch where they said champions seem to "disapear" for 1-2mins... i've had this happen with Katarina and Fiddle... . xoxox Riot
Isnt that called a kill? Or 'Death' in some cultures...
Theres a weird bug with knockups around where you get knocked up really really really good.
i've been knocked up unusually high a couple times, and 3 or 4 days ago i saw myself rocketing away and didnt come back down till 5-10 seconds had passed. i THINK i could move in the meantime, but its hard to tell coz i didnt see myself.
dont recall being fiddle or katarina, and i have no idea how to reproduce.
On September 08 2011 18:01 DH_Remorse wrote: Would love to have the Wukong bug fixed. If Wukong ulties certain champions while they are ultiing , the knockup will lead to a glitch where they said champions seem to "disapear" for 1-2mins... i've had this happen with Katarina and Fiddle... . xoxox Riot
Isnt that called a kill? Or 'Death' in some cultures...
Theres a weird bug with knockups around where you get knocked up really really really good.
i've been knocked up unusually high a couple times, and 3 or 4 days ago i saw myself rocketing away and didnt come back down till 5-10 seconds had passed. i THINK i could move in the meantime, but its hard to tell coz i didnt see myself.
dont recall being fiddle or katarina, and i have no idea how to reproduce.
The funniest part is that if you're a ranged DPS, you can still attack them using hold/attack move. It's basically a 10 second stun except you kind of fly off into the sky
I'm fairly sure the tooltip on Tryndamere's ult is bugged. I die all the time with the little icon still there with the grey ticking around it or whatever. Maybe its still using 6 seconds or something instead of 5? I notice it alot when I'm poisoned and I wait touse my heal and watch the thing grey out then when it's 3/4 done I die and am like wtf?
On September 09 2011 01:04 Ian Ian Ian wrote: I'm fairly sure the tooltip on Tryndamere's ult is bugged. I die all the time with the little icon still there with the grey ticking around it or whatever. Maybe its still using 6 seconds or something instead of 5? I notice it alot when I'm poisoned and I wait touse my heal and watch the thing grey out then when it's 3/4 done I die and am like wtf?
Gotten used to it, but still annoying
That happens to be but with just about everything.
I wish I could see a more descriptive match history in profiles.
I hate how in match history the only thing I can see is my K/D/A and VICTORY or DEFEAT... There should be the score screen, the same one that pops up right after the game...
Like in SC2, where I can check my opponent's build order, resources, etc... Wish I could see that stuff on other people's profiles also.
PlayerA views PlayerB's profile (through search or right click -> view profile). PlayerA klicks the myProfile button at the top right of the client. PlayerA tries to view PlayerB's profile again (through search or right click -> view profile), but it doesn't work.
PlayerA has to view a random PlayerC's profile before he can switch back to PlayerB's profile again.
The client probably prevents you from requesting the profile of the one player twice in a row (maybe to protect the servers from potential profile request spam). But when you switch to your own profile, the client fails to update some values.
two things about party portraits (in-game interface). the most annoying thing about the portraits is that they do not update unless you are looking at your teammate w/ your camera. they should update constantly. also, it would be nice if we could make party portraits bigger.
On September 09 2011 19:56 taintmachine wrote: two things about party portraits (in-game interface). the most annoying thing about the portraits is that they do not update unless you are looking at your teammate w/ your camera. they should update constantly. also, it would be nice if we could make party portraits bigger.
That's only kind of a bug in that your client just plain doesn't receive the information about a player's HP/MP unless you can see that player. This is why LoL Replay can't display accurate health bars.
On September 07 2011 22:46 grs wrote: Another Bug: Teleport randomly breaks since this patch. It does so on towers and creeps. The spell goes on the short CD (like when you cancelled it) but you don't get teleported. Worked before the latest patch.
I believe the post below yours was the answer to this one. It's annoying, but dealable with imo. In case you think it's something different, please try and find ways to reproduce it / videos / replays of it.
Hmm...I can't change it if you don't want to add it, but it is definately there. As I wrote it randomly breaks - with or without movement. Reproducing a randomly appearing bug is only possible by repeatedly trying. I get the bug once every 3-4 teleports.
On September 09 2011 19:18 spinesheath wrote: PlayerA views PlayerB's profile (through search or right click -> view profile). PlayerA klicks the myProfile button at the top right of the client. PlayerA tries to view PlayerB's profile again (through search or right click -> view profile), but it doesn't work.
PlayerA has to view a random PlayerC's profile before he can switch back to PlayerB's profile again.
The client probably prevents you from requesting the profile of the one player twice in a row (maybe to protect the servers from potential profile request spam). But when you switch to your own profile, the client fails to update some values.
please, please, please work on new summoners spells. you don't have to balance flash if you make a bunch of other interesting utility spells that people would rather take. it and items are some of the biggest platforms for really interesting new strategy. a lot of item builds are getting pretty boring and there is zero synergy with summoners spells. if you have a problem with a particular part of the metagame, like invisibility, maybe introduce a new summoner spell that makes it so you can see invisible things. dominion specific summoners spells might also be really helpful in balancing things out. ultimately i just think they could play as big a role in a character's strategy as rushing a particular item but as it is now summoner spell choices are completely dead weight.
also many are entirely useless because of simple number issues, for example heal and clarity. you could argue that flash would be about as useful as heal if you got one flash every 10 minutes or something, so you could simply increase the CD for flash by some amount and absolutely nobody would have a problem with it because absolutely everyone agrees that it is overpowered. having varied cooldowns are the only way to balance weird utility spells and you have already done it with revive, clairvoyance and TP. as it is now there are no summoners spells that can completely turn a fight around other than by someone flashing out. it seems like you are going towards more general effects instead of using them as specific strategic counters when you changed exhaust to do less damage instead of blinding. this only encourages mindless picking of overpowered skills like exhaust.
random idea: if you had a spell with an absurdly long CD like 25 minutes but it was a 3 second click stun or a huge amount of true damage or something like that, essentially something extremely powerful but with a long enough CD as to be useless, it would probably help a lot with really bad players who are also ragers because it could guarantee them that they will never go 0-15, instead letting them get at least one kill guaranteed. this would also enforce the idea that summoners spells are extremely important from an early level where most people just get ghost heal and forget to use them. as it is now, people at high level games still often forget to check the other team's summoners. however they will quickly learn to do it if there is a risk that they are ganking someone and then that person drops a 3 second stun on them under tower. additionally it could encourage chat--people at low levels would tell each other that the click stun spell is down and that the person is more gankable. then as these players mature and realize that other spells are much more useful they could start using them instead.
When you attack the minions besides the blue and red and leave them alone, run away without killing them. They hit you from ANYWHERE in the map (the attacker) as long as you have vision of those minions that you hit. A funny thing is that their attack looks like a lazer because they attack multiple shots seriously fast with those beams (Only activated once you hit them and run like mentioned) Its annoying because my enemy was following the attack and found me and the team in the bushes. Lol...
On September 11 2011 08:04 Attakijing wrote: please, please, please work on new summoners spells. you don't have to balance flash if you make a bunch of other interesting utility spells that people would rather take. it and items are some of the biggest platforms for really interesting new strategy. a lot of item builds are getting pretty boring and there is zero synergy with summoners spells. if you have a problem with a particular part of the metagame, like invisibility, maybe introduce a new summoner spell that makes it so you can see invisible things. dominion specific summoners spells might also be really helpful in balancing things out. ultimately i just think they could play as big a role in a character's strategy as rushing a particular item but as it is now summoner spell choices are completely dead weight.
also many are entirely useless because of simple number issues, for example heal and clarity. you could argue that flash would be about as useful as heal if you got one flash every 10 minutes or something, so you could simply increase the CD for flash by some amount and absolutely nobody would have a problem with it because absolutely everyone agrees that it is overpowered. having varied cooldowns are the only way to balance weird utility spells and you have already done it with revive, clairvoyance and TP. as it is now there are no summoners spells that can completely turn a fight around other than by someone flashing out. it seems like you are going towards more general effects instead of using them as specific strategic counters when you changed exhaust to do less damage instead of blinding. this only encourages mindless picking of overpowered skills like exhaust.
random idea: if you had a spell with an absurdly long CD like 25 minutes but it was a 3 second click stun or a huge amount of true damage or something like that, essentially something extremely powerful but with a long enough CD as to be useless, it would probably help a lot with really bad players who are also ragers because it could guarantee them that they will never go 0-15, instead letting them get at least one kill guaranteed. this would also enforce the idea that summoners spells are extremely important from an early level where most people just get ghost heal and forget to use them. as it is now, people at high level games still often forget to check the other team's summoners. however they will quickly learn to do it if there is a risk that they are ganking someone and then that person drops a 3 second stun on them under tower. additionally it could encourage chat--people at low levels would tell each other that the click stun spell is down and that the person is more gankable. then as these players mature and realize that other spells are much more useful they could start using them instead.
Personally, I think some summoners just need to be changed or separated.
For example, if ignite was just a dot and they removed the heal/regen reduction from it but they added a new summoner that said "For X Seconds, your attacks and abilities reduce healing/regen on those hit by YY%. Stacking Z times." (Z could be 1) Alternatively, a summoner which reverses the effects of healing / regeneration for a short duration would also be interesting.
Overall, a summoner like the two named above would serve as potent (but not definitive) counter-picks to both high sustainability and healing compositions. This allows those two mechanics to remain strong, as we have now introduced a better (subjective) way of dealing with them than we have now. In addition, Ignite still serves as an extra oomph spell when trying to kill someone, but could now perhaps be given slight scalability with AP/Damage to compensate for the loss of the heal/regen reduction. The scalability may come at the cost of true damage, where the spell does magic/physical damage, based on whichever scaling bonus is greater.
Flash could be changed such that the maximum distance moved is based on your character's movespeed at the time the spell is used. Now champions which are slowed can't flash as far away and are easier to catch, while faster champions can more easily catch up / escape. It may be such that max distance is never increased, but only decreased when a character has a slow on him (perhaps something like maximum distance units flashed is reduced by 2x the % value of the slow, so a 55% slow would reduce the max flash distance by 110 distance units).
On September 11 2011 08:04 Attakijing wrote: please, please, please work on new summoners spells. you don't have to balance flash if you make a bunch of other interesting utility spells that people would rather take. it and items are some of the biggest platforms for really interesting new strategy. a lot of item builds are getting pretty boring and there is zero synergy with summoners spells. if you have a problem with a particular part of the metagame, like invisibility, maybe introduce a new summoner spell that makes it so you can see invisible things. dominion specific summoners spells might also be really helpful in balancing things out. ultimately i just think they could play as big a role in a character's strategy as rushing a particular item but as it is now summoner spell choices are completely dead weight.
also many are entirely useless because of simple number issues, for example heal and clarity. you could argue that flash would be about as useful as heal if you got one flash every 10 minutes or something, so you could simply increase the CD for flash by some amount and absolutely nobody would have a problem with it because absolutely everyone agrees that it is overpowered. having varied cooldowns are the only way to balance weird utility spells and you have already done it with revive, clairvoyance and TP. as it is now there are no summoners spells that can completely turn a fight around other than by someone flashing out. it seems like you are going towards more general effects instead of using them as specific strategic counters when you changed exhaust to do less damage instead of blinding. this only encourages mindless picking of overpowered skills like exhaust.
random idea: if you had a spell with an absurdly long CD like 25 minutes but it was a 3 second click stun or a huge amount of true damage or something like that, essentially something extremely powerful but with a long enough CD as to be useless, it would probably help a lot with really bad players who are also ragers because it could guarantee them that they will never go 0-15, instead letting them get at least one kill guaranteed. this would also enforce the idea that summoners spells are extremely important from an early level where most people just get ghost heal and forget to use them. as it is now, people at high level games still often forget to check the other team's summoners. however they will quickly learn to do it if there is a risk that they are ganking someone and then that person drops a 3 second stun on them under tower. additionally it could encourage chat--people at low levels would tell each other that the click stun spell is down and that the person is more gankable. then as these players mature and realize that other spells are much more useful they could start using them instead.
Personally, I think some summoners just need to be changed or separated.
Overall, a summoner like the two named above would serve as potent (but not definitive) counter-picks to both high sustainability and healing compositions. This allows those two mechanics to remain strong, as we have now introduced a better (subjective) way of dealing with them than we have now. In addition, Ignite still serves as an extra oomph spell when trying to kill someone, but could now perhaps be given slight scalability with AP/Damage to compensate for the loss of the heal/regen reduction. The scalability may come at the cost of true damage, where the spell does magic/physical damage, based on whichever scaling bonus is greater.
Just a few thoughts / ideas about summoners.
this is the most important part. essentially summoners spells are far too vague and often too weak where they could allow low elo players more agency over their success as well as more interesting strategy in high elo. you should at the very least try making some of them hard counters. a click stun or click silence summoners spell would be a very hard counter to katrina or kassadin (both weak because low elo players bitch about them so often). a summoners spell that worked like alistar headbutt would be a hard counter to melee with one gap closer (also a big complaint in low level games). ignite is supposed to be a hard counter to sustainability guys like mundo but is really not that effective (this would help TT balance tremendously). old exhaust was a hard counter to ranged and melee autoattack dps and did nothing to casters.
you really should try separating spells into stronger and more specialized functions, they are simply too vague and too idiotproof. now exhaust just generally makes you do less damage and ignite generally gives you a little more damage and some slight healing reduction. ignite only reduces healing by half for 4 seconds so a lot of the time you can still heal and get away with your life. as it is almost every summoners spell is something you can jam down on in panic mode. oh no im dying, flash/heal/ghost/exhaust/ignite/cleanse/even fortify and maybe they will die or i will live or both. and all the summoners spells other than those and teleport are seen as underpowered. honestly i don't even understand why they are in the game, especially when some like heal and clarity are flat out useless just because they don't scale well, and absolutely everyone knows it. that just looks like lazy design to me, and really seems disrespectful to high level play.
some ideas for different interesting summoner spells off the top of my head:+ Show Spoiler +
a summoner spell that drops a ward somewhere, something that allows you to see invisibility, something that allows you to place a big anivia style wall for a few seconds, a skarner-like chain that could force someone to stay within range of you, a spell to prevent baron steals, an exhaust-like spell that sets someone's AP values to 0 for a short second, a zilean style revive on a very high cooldown, a spell that buffs a neutral minion so you can make baron harder to kill or fuck over a jungler trying to get blue, something to kill someone's buff like stifle, something that would allow you to switch positions with a teammate to save them and then take their place
if you have any problem with a certain style of play being too powerful all you have to do is make a summoners spell that counters it. people will not think you are a worse game company if you admit mistakes. season 2 is coming up, its a perfect time to make big changes...
On September 11 2011 19:41 Attakijing wrote: as it is almost every summoners spell is something you can jam down on in panic mode. oh no im dying, flash/heal/ghost/exhaust/ignite/cleanse/even fortify and maybe they will die or i will live or both. and all the summoners spells other than those and teleport are seen as underpowered.
Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, CLAIRVOYANCE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away! Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, SMITE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away!
Smite is pretty much mandatory and so is CV. Yet they are absolutely useless "in panic mode". Besides, wasting your summoners when you either don't need to or it wouldn't make a difference is an easy way to throw a game.
On September 11 2011 19:41 Attakijing wrote: as it is almost every summoners spell is something you can jam down on in panic mode. oh no im dying, flash/heal/ghost/exhaust/ignite/cleanse/even fortify and maybe they will die or i will live or both. and all the summoners spells other than those and teleport are seen as underpowered.
Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, CLAIRVOYANCE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away! Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, SMITE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away!
Smite is pretty much mandatory and so is CV. Yet they are absolutely useless "in panic mode". Besides, wasting your summoners when you either don't need to or it wouldn't make a difference is an easy way to throw a game.
sorry, more giant wall of tldr
i know i am a noob here but please don't treat me like i am stupid. those spells are both mandatory and role based. that does nothing to encourage creative strategy at low or high elo. the fact is aside from those two spells that are assigned to roles, tp, and underpowered spells, every spell can be used as a panic button and most are exclusively designed for this. there is no reason that summoner spells must equal super mario style extra lives that require no skill or strategy to use except for "stay near tower." My actual point is that it would be very interesting at all levels of play to be given the opportunity to sacrifice an escape for an additional means of securing a kill, and an easy way to implement this and reduce the prevalence of flash would be to make some interesting summoners spells that are offensive. Right now the only strategy or skill involved with using summoners is trying to figure out how few you need to spend to get away.
essentially my worry is that it seems like people can't even comprehend summoners spells being something other than flash plus another panic button like exhaust. i know it is hard to imagine, but it really doesn't have to be that boring. even though people see that everyone only uses flash, their answer is like riot's answer to everything prevalent, nerf it. instead, it would be a lot more fun and interesting to have spells that were high cooldown but gamechanging when played correctly--the "everything is op so nothing is op" mentality. revive is like this, and it takes a guy like dyrus to break the stigma of nonstandard summoner spells to make a creative strategy like zombie karthus seem at least plausible. consider that other than running revive tp on karthus, the only other way to play him creatively was which of 3 ap items to get first...its fucking boring.
side note, exhaust and ignite can be used offensively as well, but in exhaust's case, reducing your target's damage is pointless when ganking, and slowing them is also pointless when they can flash or use an escape move to return to tower range.
On September 11 2011 19:41 Attakijing wrote: as it is almost every summoners spell is something you can jam down on in panic mode. oh no im dying, flash/heal/ghost/exhaust/ignite/cleanse/even fortify and maybe they will die or i will live or both. and all the summoners spells other than those and teleport are seen as underpowered.
Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, CLAIRVOYANCE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away! Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, SMITE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away!
Smite is pretty much mandatory and so is CV. Yet they are absolutely useless "in panic mode". Besides, wasting your summoners when you either don't need to or it wouldn't make a difference is an easy way to throw a game.
i know i am a noob here but please don't treat me like i am stupid. those spells are both mandatory and role based. that does nothing to encourage creative strategy at low or high elo. the fact is aside from those two spells that are assigned to roles, tp, and underpowered spells, every spell can be used as a panic button and most are exclusively designed for this. there is no reason that summoner spells must equal super mario style extra lives that require no skill or strategy to use except for "stay near tower." My actual point is that it would be very interesting at all levels of play to be given the opportunity to sacrifice an escape for an additional means of securing a kill, and an easy way to implement this and reduce the prevalence of flash would be to make some interesting summoners spells that are offensive.
essentially my worry is that it seems like people can't even comprehend summoners spells being something other than flash plus another panic button like exhaust. even though people see that everyone only uses flash, their answer is like riot's answer to everything prevalent, nerf it. instead, it would be a lot more fun and interesting to have spells that were high cooldown but gamechanging--the "everything is op so nothing is op" mentality. revive is like this, and it takes a guy like dyrus to break the stigma of nonstandard summoner spells to make a creative strategy like zombie karthus.
side note, exhaust and ignite can be used offensively as well, but in exhaust's case, reducing your target's damage is pointless when ganking, and slowing them is also pointless when they can flash or use an escape move to return to tower range.
It's hard to not treat you like that when you think that Dyrus came up with Zombie Karthus.
Ignite is ONLY used offensively. Flash on burst AP and most tanky DPS is often (if not mostly) used offensively - see Annie, Galio, Amumu for prime examples. Exhaust on tanky DPS is used offensively. Exhaust often also is a big "FOCUS THIS" sign (except for stuff like Tryndamere) since it also reduces Armor/MRes and makes it harder for the enemy to escape with low HP. If you ever want to kill Singed, do it while he's Exhausted + Ignited.
Obviously Flash on ranged DPS is mostly used for defense. The nature of ranged AD just doesn't make offensive flashing very useful.
On September 11 2011 19:41 Attakijing wrote: as it is almost every summoners spell is something you can jam down on in panic mode. oh no im dying, flash/heal/ghost/exhaust/ignite/cleanse/even fortify and maybe they will die or i will live or both. and all the summoners spells other than those and teleport are seen as underpowered.
Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, CLAIRVOYANCE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away! Oh shit I'm dieing, QUICK, SMITE so maybe he gets scurred and runs away!
Smite is pretty much mandatory and so is CV. Yet they are absolutely useless "in panic mode". Besides, wasting your summoners when you either don't need to or it wouldn't make a difference is an easy way to throw a game.
i know i am a noob here but please don't treat me like i am stupid. those spells are both mandatory and role based. that does nothing to encourage creative strategy at low or high elo. the fact is aside from those two spells that are assigned to roles, tp, and underpowered spells, every spell can be used as a panic button and most are exclusively designed for this. there is no reason that summoner spells must equal super mario style extra lives that require no skill or strategy to use except for "stay near tower." My actual point is that it would be very interesting at all levels of play to be given the opportunity to sacrifice an escape for an additional means of securing a kill, and an easy way to implement this and reduce the prevalence of flash would be to make some interesting summoners spells that are offensive.
essentially my worry is that it seems like people can't even comprehend summoners spells being something other than flash plus another panic button like exhaust. even though people see that everyone only uses flash, their answer is like riot's answer to everything prevalent, nerf it. instead, it would be a lot more fun and interesting to have spells that were high cooldown but gamechanging--the "everything is op so nothing is op" mentality. revive is like this, and it takes a guy like dyrus to break the stigma of nonstandard summoner spells to make a creative strategy like zombie karthus.
side note, exhaust and ignite can be used offensively as well, but in exhaust's case, reducing your target's damage is pointless when ganking, and slowing them is also pointless when they can flash or use an escape move to return to tower range.
It's hard to not treat you like that when you think that Dyrus came up with Zombie Karthus.
Ignite is ONLY used offensively. Flash on burst AP and most tanky DPS is often (if not mostly) used offensively - see Annie, Galio, Amumu for prime examples. Exhaust on tanky DPS is used offensively. Exhaust often also is a big "FOCUS THIS" sign (except for stuff like Tryndamere) since it also reduces Armor/MRes and makes it harder for the enemy to escape with low HP. If you ever want to kill Singed, do it while he's Exhausted + Ignited.
Obviously Flash on ranged DPS is mostly used for defense. The nature of ranged AD just doesn't make offensive flashing very useful.
oh i thought he made it legitimate. i know it was possible and used in troll games but i assumed nobody would ever run it in a tournament game, but in the replay dyrus said he wanted to use it in a tournament.
you are right about ignite. and the visual aspect of exhaust is helpful as well...
anyway what do you think about some increased variety in summoners spells? is there a reason i don't understand that there are very few spells with niche uses like revive?
The reason simply is that the Summoner spells have been roughly the same for ages now, with just Promote being replaced (dunno, was before my time) and Exhaust being changed. People don't bitch too much about UP summoner spells when they can instead bitch about OP champions, so Riot doesn't have too much of an incentive to change them. Also because the weaker summoners are the only ones available for low lvl players I suspect that Riot is like "but people ARE using clarity, just look at this data over here". The game is hard enough to keep somewhat balanced as it is, creating more potential issues by fiddling with summoners is probably pretty low on Riot's to do list.
In any case: The really game canging stuff is better placed in a champion's kit than a summoner spell that anyone can use.
This discussion seems pretty off topic to me, btw...
Could there be a slaughter rule implemented in pubs that allow you to leave games after a certain amount of time and with enough score differential? I understand the need to play out the game to a certain extent but I end up in so many pubs where all the players are bad/feeding and no one is willing to surrender either because the various teammates have been shitting on each other's performance and surrendering would stop the internet shouting match.
Say at 20 minutes with a 1:3 score ratio between the teams. It would be a lot nicer than having to tab back and jiggle the mouse every once and a while to prevent AFKs (oh, did I mention half the team tends to go AFK in these situations, myself included).
Ok iam taking the time to list everything that bothers me:
1. Balancing Philosophy.
Champions:
- As mentioned allready in this thread. I dont like the streamlining the powercurves. Riot often talks about making champions more "consistent" which only means that the champions are more the same with every patch in terms of early-lategame power. This narrows the strategy part of LoL immensely.
- Taking away "frustrating" mechanics makes champions less unique and lessens the requirement of knowledge, awareness, tactical decision making and counterpicking. With the introduction of more tenacity and consistent weakening of unique but powerfull mechanics such as sustain, disables, burst damage or harrassing power etc. that are considered "frustrating" (eg. noobs can't handle them and complain in the forums) the game only becomes dumbed down with every patch.
General
- What Riot seems to be ignoring so far is that the early game strength of turrets is the main reason for passive early game play. The proximity of the outer sidelane turrets and their raw damaging power gives too much safety so that good players are forced to only pile op little tiny harassing advantages which leads to a bit more CS so they can play aggressive in after 20min of "passive" gameplay. This problem creates even champion balancing issues such as sustain champions being too powerfull and they forced themselves to indirectly address the main issue by nerfing those champions when in fact they aren't really one but they abuse the passive metagame which is towerhugging and creepwave tanking. If the turrets were farther away from eachother and they dealt less damage early on then passive play would require a lot more effort than it does now. The game would be much more action packed and the laneing phase would end much more quickly if one side would gain an advantage.
Items:
- Wards are way too cheap and they can be bought infitely. The downside of placing wards in less needed locations is almost 0. Mapcontrol should not be for (almost) free. It should be earned and chosen well. I suggest giving much more bounty for wardkills and also increasing the cost by a couple coins.
- gp10 items give too much income and are boring. I would rather have an item that gives me more gold/assist than gold/time on my support/jungle/roaming champions. This would promote ganking and force a more action packed gameplay.
- Snowball items such as leviatan, meja's and occult are what LoL needs on paper. In practice they suck balls. I suggest rebalancing them, giving them a faster stat gain but a more reasonable cap. Levi and occult even better basestats for not being completely useless. I think (and I'am pulling this out of my arse) getting 3/kill 2/ass but capping them at 15'ish would make them more viable but not too powerfull for gankers, supports and junglers to buy and would also lead the game into more action.
- I like the recent nerf of deathcap because the item is a freaking nobrainer for most ranged mages. We have so many interesting AP-based items which are outshined by dc-rushing. I would love to see what happens if the AP-scaling on deathcap was higher but the base was lower so we would have about the same stats with 2-3 ap items beforehand. The item is just boring design because it adds too much to not be rushed on almost every mage.
- I don't like that bigger base items get you more stats/gold than small ones. They allready free up item slots. If we had the option to buy 2 wands instead of 1 rod when behind then this would lead to less "one side gets 1 kill and dragon into win"-games, because you could go all-in with elixiers and cheap base stats to come back into the game. This wouldnt be a nobrainer though because the other side can allways stall out an all-in attempt.
- almost the same thing as above: cheaper finished items are not costefficient enough to warrant stacking a few of them to get ready for forcing an early teambattle etc. which makes the game more dull.
2. Content
- Give Progamers a plattform to share their knowledge! There are alot of very good players that provide good content for the community. Instead of only showing your funny champion spotlights, invite specialists and make good videos about things that concern the community. If you feel that a champion isn't as appreciated as it should be then invite someone real good who plays it and make a short video with them explaining why the champion is good and how to use it well. If you think that a champion is played alot and "frustrating" to play against then invite someone who knows how to deal with that champion. If you can pull this off then I foresee a dramatic change in the community's mindset with every of those videos.
Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
well, if I'm a carry and I bait that WW to dive and then our mid and jungler fuck him up after he insta-gibbed me, I don't get an assist either, why should you get an assist just cause you shielded yourself? Note, in this scenario, if you're janna and you try to save me, you don't get an assist cause I didn't contribute to the kill. That's just how it goes bro, deal with it.
EDIT: basically you either have to give everyone within a certain radius the assist, only people who do damage, or draw some arbitrary line in the sand about what counts as supporting a kill. There is no good way to actually give credit for assists programatically, so you just have to deal with whatever arbitrary line has been drawn. Personally, I think their line is about as good as you can do.
like let's say i'm taric and i'm overextended and i get caught. i turn on my ult, stun warwick, and start running. their cait and annie both jump on me, i heal myself for 200 (plus 100 for the ult) and die. my team mops up the cait, annie, and warwick, who all have abilities on cooldowns. i should get 3 assists here, not 1, because i soaked up damage from all three enemies. damage that could have beeen used to kill my teammates.
On September 13 2011 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: nah, niton is right
i think he just used a poor example
like let's say i'm taric and i'm overextended and i get caught. i turn on my ult, stun warwick, and start running. their cait and annie both jump on me, i heal myself for 200 (plus 100 for the ult) and die. my team mops up the cait, annie, and warwick, who all have abilities on cooldowns. i should get 3 assists here, not 1, because i soaked up damage from all three enemies. damage that could have beeen used to kill my teammates.
Think about how you're going to do this programatically. You're just going to hand out assists for taking damage, otherwise it's retarded. And that in and of itself is retarded, people'll get assists like a motherfucker just because they took damage. What about the scenario where you just happened to stand vaguely near a tank with sunfire cape who died? What's the logical difference that your assist system is going to work off of?
I get what you guys are saying, but short of incorporating a human scorekeeper who judges who deserves an assist to every kill in the game, you're not going to get a system that does what you want it to do.
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
well, if I'm a carry and I bait that WW to dive and then our mid and jungler fuck him up after he insta-gibbed me, I don't get an assist either, why should you get an assist just cause you shielded yourself? Note, in this scenario, if you're janna and you try to save me, you don't get an assist cause I didn't contribute to the kill. That's just how it goes bro, deal with it.
EDIT: basically you either have to give everyone within a certain radius the assist, only people who do damage, or draw some arbitrary line in the sand about what counts as supporting a kill. There is no good way to actually give credit for assists programatically, so you just have to deal with whatever arbitrary line has been drawn. Personally, I think their line is about as good as you can do.
simple and fair solution: if you are being attacked by the target and it dies after, then you get an assist.
reasoning: you tanking their damage contributed to the killing of the target. If you want to be fair then it shouldnt matter how you tank it, wheter its shields, resistances, heals, regeneration etc. are only different ways to tank more damage. Obviously the more effort someone puts into killing another the better is the outcome for his opponents.
That said, fairness is not allways the best design. Maybe this would lead to too much overall gold? I would say this is better but mb I dont see the big picture.
On September 13 2011 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: nah, niton is right
i think he just used a poor example
like let's say i'm taric and i'm overextended and i get caught. i turn on my ult, stun warwick, and start running. their cait and annie both jump on me, i heal myself for 200 (plus 100 for the ult) and die. my team mops up the cait, annie, and warwick, who all have abilities on cooldowns. i should get 3 assists here, not 1, because i soaked up damage from all three enemies. damage that could have beeen used to kill my teammates.
Think about how you're going to do this programatically. You're just going to hand out assists for taking damage, otherwise it's retarded. And that in and of itself is retarded, people'll get assists like a motherfucker just because they took damage. What about the scenario where you just happened to stand vaguely near a tank with sunfire cape who died? What's the logical difference that your assist system is going to work off of?
I get what you guys are saying, but short of incorporating a human scorekeeper who judges who deserves an assist to every kill in the game, you're not going to get a system that does what you want it to do.
well it's not the DAMAGE part that you should get the assist for, it's the damage MITIGATION part. had you not healed yourself, you would have died faster, and more damage could have killed your teammates. but healing your teammates at that point in time was not an option, as you were the one being focused
that's the logic. but i also see your side in that it certainly does seem hard to implement. well, riot has a bunch of money, maybe they can start hiring people to referee every game!
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
well, if I'm a carry and I bait that WW to dive and then our mid and jungler fuck him up after he insta-gibbed me, I don't get an assist either, why should you get an assist just cause you shielded yourself? Note, in this scenario, if you're janna and you try to save me, you don't get an assist cause I didn't contribute to the kill. That's just how it goes bro, deal with it.
In that scenario, you wouldn't get an assist on and characters you didn't hit specifically because you didn't do anything. Janna shielding a target is doing something, and no matter which target she shields, if it results in a kill the result should be the same every time. It's a bizarre set of rules that shielding/healing someone is only sometimes worth an assist.
I think Clickrush's solution is probably the ideal one if a change is ever made:
simple and fair solution: if you are being attacked by the target and it dies after, then you get an assist.
It doesn't actually let you get bullshit random assists any more than walking up and trying to last-hit someone to get assist gold does, and it doesn't penalize you for being focused and wanting to protect yourself.
On September 13 2011 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: nah, niton is right
i think he just used a poor example
like let's say i'm taric and i'm overextended and i get caught. i turn on my ult, stun warwick, and start running. their cait and annie both jump on me, i heal myself for 200 (plus 100 for the ult) and die. my team mops up the cait, annie, and warwick, who all have abilities on cooldowns. i should get 3 assists here, not 1, because i soaked up damage from all three enemies. damage that could have beeen used to kill my teammates.
Think about how you're going to do this programatically. You're just going to hand out assists for taking damage, otherwise it's retarded. And that in and of itself is retarded, people'll get assists like a motherfucker just because they took damage. What about the scenario where you just happened to stand vaguely near a tank with sunfire cape who died? What's the logical difference that your assist system is going to work off of?
I get what you guys are saying, but short of incorporating a human scorekeeper who judges who deserves an assist to every kill in the game, you're not going to get a system that does what you want it to do.
well it's not the DAMAGE part that you should get the assist for, it's the damage MITIGATION part. had you not healed yourself, you would have died faster, and more damage could have killed your teammates. but healing your teammates at that point in time was not an option, as you were the one being focused
Everyone mitigates damage via natural armor and regen if nothing else. This is a dumb argument. Besides, what more did a Taric with his heal and ult up that healed himself from 200-500 to bait the enemy back than the Malphite with 500 HP to begin with. The answer, simply, is nothing or that the enemy was stupider and didn't know Taric could heal himself. This is not a good grounds by which to award assists programatically. Again, it's an arbitrary line in the sand and there are always going to be situations that it fails to properly award people, but there's no way around dumb scenarios where someone is getting gypped, so you just have to accept that that's going to happen.
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
well, if I'm a carry and I bait that WW to dive and then our mid and jungler fuck him up after he insta-gibbed me, I don't get an assist either, why should you get an assist just cause you shielded yourself? Note, in this scenario, if you're janna and you try to save me, you don't get an assist cause I didn't contribute to the kill. That's just how it goes bro, deal with it.
In that scenario, you wouldn't get an assist on and characters you didn't hit specifically because you didn't do anything. Janna shielding a target is doing something, and no matter which target she shields, if it results in a kill the result should be the same every time. It's a bizarre set of rules that shielding/healing someone is only sometimes worth an assist.
I think Clickrush's solution is probably the ideal one if a change is ever made:
simple and fair solution: if you are being attacked by the target and it dies after, then you get an assist.
It doesn't actually let you get bullshit random assists any more than walking up and trying to last-hit someone to get assist gold does, and it doesn't penalize you for being focused and wanting to protect yourself.
again, it will do stupid shit. Annie dropped a bear on me. Oh hey, it's AoE, she didn't target me, now I don't get an assist, but if it was malz ulting me, I would have, stupid system. The shielding/healing/buffing system has a clear set of rules. If your teammate that was shielded/buffed/healed dealt damage in the kill, you get an assist. I mean, there are always going to be stupid scenarios, there is no way around it and stop pretending like you have a good solution because if there was, it would've been implemented by now, trust me.
On September 13 2011 05:14 Mogwai wrote: This is a dumb argument. Besides, what more did a Taric with his heal and ult up that healed himself from 200-500 to bait the enemy back than the Malphite with 500 HP to begin with.
He used his own abilities to affect the teamfight. Think about it from another perspective - in what way is it the correct play to heal someone who is not eating focus fire? Rewarding suboptimal play just to avoid your edge case of 'standing near sunfire' (which is as bullshit as walking up and hitting a guy at 5% to KILLSECURE and getting rewarded) is not a good design goal.
On September 13 2011 05:14 Mogwai wrote: This is a dumb argument. Besides, what more did a Taric with his heal and ult up that healed himself from 200-500 to bait the enemy back than the Malphite with 500 HP to begin with.
He used his own abilities to affect the teamfight. Think about it from another perspective - in what way is it the correct play to heal someone who is not eating focus fire? Rewarding suboptimal play just to avoid your edge case of 'standing near sunfire' (which is as bullshit as walking up and hitting a guy at 5% to KILLSECURE and getting rewarded) is not a good design goal.
Say it's trist with 300 HP then. And instead of healing her self, she jumps away from a skillshot and dodged 200 extra damage. Again, same net effect, but now she used a mobility skill to impact a fight instead of a heal. Look, I get what you're saying, it's just stupid because there's no good system for rewarding it.
On September 13 2011 05:02 gtrsrs wrote: nah, niton is right
i think he just used a poor example
like let's say i'm taric and i'm overextended and i get caught. i turn on my ult, stun warwick, and start running. their cait and annie both jump on me, i heal myself for 200 (plus 100 for the ult) and die. my team mops up the cait, annie, and warwick, who all have abilities on cooldowns. i should get 3 assists here, not 1, because i soaked up damage from all three enemies. damage that could have beeen used to kill my teammates.
Think about how you're going to do this programatically. You're just going to hand out assists for taking damage, otherwise it's retarded. And that in and of itself is retarded, people'll get assists like a motherfucker just because they took damage. What about the scenario where you just happened to stand vaguely near a tank with sunfire cape who died? What's the logical difference that your assist system is going to work off of?
I get what you guys are saying, but short of incorporating a human scorekeeper who judges who deserves an assist to every kill in the game, you're not going to get a system that does what you want it to do.
well it's not the DAMAGE part that you should get the assist for, it's the damage MITIGATION part. had you not healed yourself, you would have died faster, and more damage could have killed your teammates. but healing your teammates at that point in time was not an option, as you were the one being focused
Everyone mitigates damage via natural armor and regen if nothing else. This is a dumb argument. Besides, what more did a Taric with his heal and ult up that healed himself from 200-500 to bait the enemy back than the Malphite with 500 HP to begin with. The answer, simply, is nothing or that the enemy was stupider and didn't know Taric could heal himself. This is not a good grounds by which to award assists programatically. Again, it's an arbitrary line in the sand and there are always going to be situations that it fails to properly award people, but there's no way around dumb scenarios where someone is getting gypped, so you just have to accept that that's going to happen.
On September 13 2011 03:17 Niton wrote: Why does healing/shielding yourself instead of another target as your first action not grant assists still? I tried to argue this with Zileas about a year ago, and the only answer he would give me is that "shielding yourself doesn't contribute enough" to grant an assist.
Healing yourself is a natural thing that occurs all the time if you're the focus target - you shouldn't need additionally to tag everyone attacking you to make sure that you get an assist from it.
ex. I'm playing Janna. I see Warwick coming to my lane at level 6, shield myself, and try to back out, but he catches me. Garen follows up with his silence, and I'm dead before I can get another ability off. During (and right after) this time, our jungler came in to force a 3v3 and 2 of them die - but I don't get assist gold for being the focus target.
Really, it's just that this set of results for shielding focus targets is inconsistant as hell:
Shield AD Carry: assist Shield Jungler : assist Shield Solotop: assist Shield Solomid: assist Shield (fixed)SUPPORT: no assist
It's a dumb mechanic that punishes people for trying to keep the focus target alive (but only sometimes!), and it really needs to be looked at. I don't really know what the right answer is to add an assist flag without making it trivial, but my suggestion would be something involving damage taken granting assists.
If you want an assist why don't you cast slow or the tornado?
Because sometimes you don't get 2 abilities off. It doesn't just happen on Janna either, it's something that's shared between all characters with a single target defensive-based action, with the exception of Alistar (whose defensive action breaks CC and applies an AoE aura).
If your actions in a teamfight directly contribute to the fight positively, the game should treat all 5 members of your team the same when it comes to determining assists.
well, if I'm a carry and I bait that WW to dive and then our mid and jungler fuck him up after he insta-gibbed me, I don't get an assist either, why should you get an assist just cause you shielded yourself? Note, in this scenario, if you're janna and you try to save me, you don't get an assist cause I didn't contribute to the kill. That's just how it goes bro, deal with it.
In that scenario, you wouldn't get an assist on and characters you didn't hit specifically because you didn't do anything. Janna shielding a target is doing something, and no matter which target she shields, if it results in a kill the result should be the same every time. It's a bizarre set of rules that shielding/healing someone is only sometimes worth an assist.
I think Clickrush's solution is probably the ideal one if a change is ever made:
simple and fair solution: if you are being attacked by the target and it dies after, then you get an assist.
It doesn't actually let you get bullshit random assists any more than walking up and trying to last-hit someone to get assist gold does, and it doesn't penalize you for being focused and wanting to protect yourself.
again, it will do stupid shit. Annie dropped a bear on me. Oh hey, it's AoE, she didn't target me, now I don't get an assist, but if it was malz ulting me, I would have, stupid system. The shielding/healing/buffing system has a clear set of rules. If your teammate that was shielded/buffed/healed dealt damage in the kill, you get an assist. I mean, there are always going to be stupid scenarios, there is no way around it and stop pretending like you have a good solution because if there was, it would've been implemented by now, trust me.
thats not what I said. I said if I tank damage from a target that gets killed I get an assist. Targeting doesnt matter then and it doesnt matter how I tank it.
Ezreal shoots his ult to clear a wave, hits you as you get back to fountain, then gets ganked and died. Gratz friend, you earned it! Legendary Lux shoots a last laser as she's dying, jungler flashes into the laser's path 2000 range away, woot, free 233 gold! All systems either gyp someone or give up stupid assists that shouldn't be assists.
It's really not an issue because a kill with 1 assist awards the same total gold as a kill with 5 assists. Your team gets the same amount of gold either way, unless somehow you manage to pull off this shield stunt in a situation where someone else on your team just instantly bursts down the guy attacking the guy you shielded.
On September 13 2011 05:28 Mogwai wrote: Ezreal shoots his ult to clear a wave, hits you as you get back to fountain, then gets ganked and died. Gratz friend, you earned it! Legendary Lux shoots a last laser as she's dying, jungler flashes into the laser's path 2000 range away, woot, free 233 gold! All systems either gyp someone or give up stupid assists that shouldn't be assists.
The current system is honest-to-god dumb enough about this that I would even entertain the idea of just making the assist system proximity-based. If nobody's on the assist table for an enemy champion, it's almost always in your team's best interest for you to take the kill from someone who needs gold more, because you're giving up 70% gold to give them 30%.
There's so many oddities and dumb things about it, it makes me imagine what a LoL2 (recoded to not be an eldritch horror) could offer that Riot's codebase simply doesn't allow (Pet control, item use/maybe smartcasting, camera turning, REPLAYS ON LESS THAN A 2 YEAR TIMETABLE)..
On September 13 2011 05:28 Mogwai wrote: Ezreal shoots his ult to clear a wave, hits you as you get back to fountain, then gets ganked and died. Gratz friend, you earned it! Legendary Lux shoots a last laser as she's dying, jungler flashes into the laser's path 2000 range away, woot, free 233 gold! All systems either gyp someone or give up stupid assists that shouldn't be assists.
The current system is honest-to-god dumb enough about this that I would even entertain the idea of just making the assist system proximity-based. If nobody's on the assist table for an enemy champion, it's almost always in your team's best interest for you to take the kill from someone who needs gold more, because you're giving up 70% gold to give them 30%.
There's so many oddities and dumb things about it, it makes me imagine what a LoL2 (recoded to not be an eldritch horror) could offer that Riot's codebase simply doesn't allow (Pet control, item use/maybe smartcasting, camera turning, REPLAYS ON LESS THAN A 2 YEAR TIMETABLE)..
seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? how the fuck does DotA do assists? how do you think DotA 2 will do assists? Doing a "good" assist system that actually gives appropriate rewards for intangible efforts has literally nothing to do with LoL's engine and everything to do with it just generally being a difficult problem for a computer to solve because computers don't have a sense of judgement.
On September 13 2011 05:28 Mogwai wrote: Ezreal shoots his ult to clear a wave, hits you as you get back to fountain, then gets ganked and died. Gratz friend, you earned it! Legendary Lux shoots a last laser as she's dying, jungler flashes into the laser's path 2000 range away, woot, free 233 gold! All systems either gyp someone or give up stupid assists that shouldn't be assists.
The current system is honest-to-god dumb enough about this that I would even entertain the idea of just making the assist system proximity-based. If nobody's on the assist table for an enemy champion, it's almost always in your team's best interest for you to take the kill from someone who needs gold more, because you're giving up 70% gold to give them 30%.
There's so many oddities and dumb things about it, it makes me imagine what a LoL2 (recoded to not be an eldritch horror) could offer that Riot's codebase simply doesn't allow (Pet control, item use/maybe smartcasting, camera turning, REPLAYS ON LESS THAN A 2 YEAR TIMETABLE)..
seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? how the fuck does DotA do assists? how do you think DotA 2 will do assists? Doing a "good" assist system that actually gives appropriate rewards for intangible efforts has literally nothing to do with LoL's engine and everything to do with it just generally being a difficult problem for a computer to solve because computers don't have a sense of judgement.
It's not the same direct argument. At least half (if not way more) of what's ACTUALLY wrong with LoL, though? Engine limitations. I really wonder exactly what they can and can't do without rewriting half the game, and I don't think being able to write a 'different' system is off the table in an actual redo.
Every fucking engine has limitations. You pick and choose them. Riot has. They're doing fine. You don't like the engine, go play another game. Storing replays efficiently in an ever-patching game is a generally hard problem. It took Blizzard a long long time to do this right and they've been in the business a lot longer. If you want features like rewinding too, this is very very difficult because there's no reverse causality in games, it's just difficult to do, period.
Pet control was a choice and continues to be a choice. LoL isn't a hacked RTS, it's its own game, deal with it. They made a concious decision to not have unit selection be a part of the game and I actually doubt that they regret that decision 1 single bit.
I don't understand your point about item use/smartcasting and I don't understand why you care about camera turning and I hoenstly don't even know what else falls under "etc," it just sounds like you're bitching for the sake of bitching.
ok, I'm fucking done. How many times do I have to point out obvious examples of abusing your proposed systems before you accept that there is no perfect system for granting assists?
I think the current assist system is very good, and that these alternatives sound pretty ridiculous. No system is perfect, but awarding assists simply for taking damage leads to way too many absurd scenarios to take that seriously as an idea.
On September 13 2011 06:31 Mogwai wrote: ok, I'm fucking done. How many times do I have to point out obvious examples of abusing your proposed systems before you accept that there is no perfect system for granting assists?
what kind of obv examples? when ez stands still to use his ult an lasthits someone far away with it instead of moving away for the incomming gank then the one that got his ult in the face certainly contributed to the kill. If ashe shoots her arrow to stun someone far away and gets ganked couple seconds after while not having arrow up then the same is true. But when you drop tibbers on a target with 20hp that is being chased by your udyr then you even get a kill. Or if you heal someone that has 90% hp who kills another then you get an assist. I'am not saying that giving ppl assists for tanking damage is anywhere near perfect but I currently think that it might be a welcomed improvement.
On September 13 2011 06:31 Mogwai wrote: ok, I'm fucking done. How many times do I have to point out obvious examples of abusing your proposed systems before you accept that there is no perfect system for granting assists?
what kind of obv examples? when ez stands still to use his ult an lasthits someone far away with it instead of moving away for the incomming gank then the one that got his ult in the face certainly contributed to the kill. If ashe shoots her arrow to stun someone far away and gets ganked couple seconds after while not having arrow up then the same is true. But when you drop tibbers on a target with 20hp that is being chased by your udyr then you even get a kill. Or if you heal someone that has 90% hp who kills another then you get an assist. I'am not saying that giving ppl assists for tanking damage is anywhere near perfect but I currently think that it might be a welcomed improvement.
Kass mid kills Karthus, in his unlife he casts ulti, when he dies, everybody gets an assist! Great success?
I really think the assist system is fine the way it is, generally if you've actively assisted you get an assist, I can't think of a great amount of situations where you are locked down to the point you got Nothing off on the target...
On September 13 2011 06:31 Mogwai wrote: ok, I'm fucking done. How many times do I have to point out obvious examples of abusing your proposed systems before you accept that there is no perfect system for granting assists?
what kind of obv examples? when ez stands still to use his ult an lasthits someone far away with it instead of moving away for the incomming gank then the one that got his ult in the face certainly contributed to the kill. If ashe shoots her arrow to stun someone far away and gets ganked couple seconds after while not having arrow up then the same is true. But when you drop tibbers on a target with 20hp that is being chased by your udyr then you even get a kill. Or if you heal someone that has 90% hp who kills another then you get an assist. I'am not saying that giving ppl assists for tanking damage is anywhere near perfect but I currently think that it might be a welcomed improvement.
Kass mid kills Karthus, in his unlife he casts ulti, when he dies, everybody gets an assist! Great success?
I really think the assist system is fine the way it is, generally if you've actively assisted you get an assist, I can't think of a great amount of situations where you are locked down to the point you got Nothing off on the target...
Karthus has to use ulti before passive kicks in, because the gold gets awarded before his passive kicks in.
But never the less, when a Karthus ulti's, GRAB HIM FOR FREE DRAGON LIKE GOLD(ish)
When I added Shake, he said he accepted it over Steam after I got a request from him (which I accepted). However, I could not see him online until I relogged (but he could see me).
Same thing happened with Mogwai, though I'm really not sure if I can actually see him online. This kinda creates an uncertainty as to knowing whether or not someone is on your friend list forreals.
I would like to be able to customize the user interface way more. AS of now, the minimap is way to big for me and when I spam like crazy and am running away, i will often click the minimap making me go there. Also, I would really like a tower attack radius similar to the spell radius blue thing. And since I am talking about the interface, if you switch it from the right to the left there are major bugs.
And make the hotkeys customizable outside of game. And include a video of what each spell does on the Champion page. That would be really cool if you ask me.
i am just rambling so I will stop.
EDIT:: I feel that I really need to say something about friends. I really like SC2's systems of the Tab and notifications of who is online. And the current system has never worked both ways for me i.e. I will be playing and not able to reply or the other player can't reply to me. Or at least one of it doesn't get it.
On September 09 2011 03:33 spinesheath wrote: You can't invite people from the "recently played" list.
Added.
On September 09 2011 19:18 spinesheath wrote: PlayerA views PlayerB's profile (through search or right click -> view profile). PlayerA klicks the myProfile button at the top right of the client. PlayerA tries to view PlayerB's profile again (through search or right click -> view profile), but it doesn't work.
PlayerA has to view a random PlayerC's profile before he can switch back to PlayerB's profile again.
The client probably prevents you from requesting the profile of the one player twice in a row (maybe to protect the servers from potential profile request spam). But when you switch to your own profile, the client fails to update some values.
Added.
On September 11 2011 08:09 RogerX wrote: I dont know if this is a glitch or not but,
When you attack the minions besides the blue and red and leave them alone, run away without killing them. They hit you from ANYWHERE in the map (the attacker) as long as you have vision of those minions that you hit. A funny thing is that their attack looks like a lazer because they attack multiple shots seriously fast with those beams (Only activated once you hit them and run like mentioned) Its annoying because my enemy was following the attack and found me and the team in the bushes. Lol...
Known bug, added.
@clickrush, added your rant.
On September 14 2011 10:28 Juddas wrote: I would like to be able to customize the user interface way more. AS of now, the minimap is way to big for me and when I spam like crazy and am running away, i will often click the minimap making me go there. Also, I would really like a tower attack radius similar to the spell radius blue thing. And since I am talking about the interface, if you switch it from the right to the left there are major bugs.
And make the hotkeys customizable outside of game. And include a video of what each spell does on the Champion page. That would be really cool if you ask me.
On September 08 2011 18:01 DH_Remorse wrote: Would love to have the Wukong bug fixed. If Wukong ulties certain champions while they are ultiing , the knockup will lead to a glitch where they said champions seem to "disapear" for 1-2mins... i've had this happen with Katarina and Fiddle... . xoxox Riot
Isnt that called a kill? Or 'Death' in some cultures...
Theres a weird bug with knockups around where you get knocked up really really really good.
i've been knocked up unusually high a couple times, and 3 or 4 days ago i saw myself rocketing away and didnt come back down till 5-10 seconds had passed. i THINK i could move in the meantime, but its hard to tell coz i didnt see myself.
dont recall being fiddle or katarina, and i have no idea how to reproduce.
I know this bug, too. Happens even to minion some times (like you're jungling Cho, Q minions and then like 10s later they drop from the sky.) - I THINK it has something to do with making the knockup while not seeing the person you knocked up (that's when it happens to me when it's about jungle Cho)
However, this thing is rare and very vague. Need more infos or some way to reproduce it first. (Replays help if they show that.)
@The assist discussion. You guys are going nuts. Not gonna add this because (as Mogwai eloquently presented) no one is making sense there. =P
On September 14 2011 10:10 Jaso wrote: Found a bug; not sure if it's known or not
When I added Shake, he said he accepted it over Steam after I got a request from him (which I accepted). However, I could not see him online until I relogged (but he could see me).
Same thing happened with Mogwai, though I'm really not sure if I can actually see him online. This kinda creates an uncertainty as to knowing whether or not someone is on your friend list forreals.
Erhm. I have fuckno idea what Steam has to do with the LoL client. Care to elaborate? =S
On September 14 2011 10:10 Jaso wrote: Found a bug; not sure if it's known or not
When I added Shake, he said he accepted it over Steam after I got a request from him (which I accepted). However, I could not see him online until I relogged (but he could see me).
Same thing happened with Mogwai, though I'm really not sure if I can actually see him online. This kinda creates an uncertainty as to knowing whether or not someone is on your friend list forreals.
Erhm. I have fuckno idea what Steam has to do with the LoL client. Care to elaborate? =S
I don't know if this is a bug, but they should really update/fix the damage range of AOE moves, it gets rather annoying after a while when you think you've dodged it, but you still take damage. I remember this being mentioned before that it damages the radius the caster is shown on their thing, but it doesn't help anyone trying to dodge it. (Biggest annoyance is the move lux does that's a slow and AOE explosion/damage thing, it always hurts when you're not inside it too).
I found a replay where it happens, I probably play pretty bad though (I remember laning was a bitch)
Serious annoying bug with rumble: There is the issue that the heatometer doesn't update but that one doesn't really matter compared to the one below.
The serious bug is that his healthbar often gets totally stuck (always together with heatometer but heatometer can get stuck without the healthissue) like 1/3 games that it wont update for around 2 minutes making you believe you have maxhealth and being on 100 or anything and then dying. The same goes for other people playing vs you or with you they see you having full health, then one second you die and is like WTF. It is not because of lag I have a very stable connection and never dc, the same issue is present for other rumble people I've played with and I've played him 300+ games and it just shouldn't happen. It never happens with any other characters for me so it is a rumble specific bug. Please fix it!
Part of this problem is that you have the shield so you don't really know if the bug is there or not so you think that the damage has been deflected or such.
I also would love to have a cs count for myself say in the top right (where it already shows my KDA). This would be especially useful when watching streams.
On September 13 2011 06:31 Mogwai wrote: ok, I'm fucking done. How many times do I have to point out obvious examples of abusing your proposed systems before you accept that there is no perfect system for granting assists?
what kind of obv examples? when ez stands still to use his ult an lasthits someone far away with it instead of moving away for the incomming gank then the one that got his ult in the face certainly contributed to the kill. If ashe shoots her arrow to stun someone far away and gets ganked couple seconds after while not having arrow up then the same is true. But when you drop tibbers on a target with 20hp that is being chased by your udyr then you even get a kill. Or if you heal someone that has 90% hp who kills another then you get an assist. I'am not saying that giving ppl assists for tanking damage is anywhere near perfect but I currently think that it might be a welcomed improvement.
no1 would ever use trap champions if this went into effect
as far as the vision mechanics, it would be ok if u just wanted the assist to make u feel good about urself, but getting money for something like that would be dumb, not to mention severely (eg, using cv to global assistwhore like soraka ult doesnt seem like good gameplay to me). This would generate obscene amounts of money to ppl who may not even deserve it.
I want to add something to the passive gameplay issue:
Riot has consistently nerfed the early game strength of strong laners while often buffing their ratios in the same patch. A few examples are renekton, annie, rumble and now also mordekaiser, garen and orianna.
Those are changes that promote passive gameplay. With removing strong early game champions with every patch there will be less and less aggressive strategies and more and more passive laneing phases.
This also has to to with my tower damage nerf suggestion. If the champions do less and less early game damage with every patch, then the turrets deal more relative to them and provide more safety. Riot leads the game into a farmfest.
On September 14 2011 19:06 Yttrasil wrote: Serious annoying bug with rumble: There is the issue that the heatometer doesn't update but that one doesn't really matter compared to the one below.
The serious bug is that his healthbar often gets totally stuck (always together with heatometer but heatometer can get stuck without the healthissue) like 1/3 games that it wont update for around 2 minutes making you believe you have maxhealth and being on 100 or anything and then dying. The same goes for other people playing vs you or with you they see you having full health, then one second you die and is like WTF. It is not because of lag I have a very stable connection and never dc, the same issue is present for other rumble people I've played with and I've played him 300+ games and it just shouldn't happen. It never happens with any other characters for me so it is a rumble specific bug. Please fix it!
Part of this problem is that you have the shield so you don't really know if the bug is there or not so you think that the damage has been deflected or such.
This bug also happens with Mordekaiser and has been around at least since around Rumble's release. I have no idea what conditions cause it, though given how rarely I play Mordekaiser and Rumble, I seem to run into it way too often.
I can't remember if this was mentioned: On the launcher, the status will display in the lower-lefthand corner (e.g. "UNAVAILABLE") with "Read More" below that. This takes you to a generic "unavailable means unavailable" page. This would be 50000000000x more useful "Read More" either took you to the relevant thread for the downtime, or the page it takes you was updated with / provided a link to the relevant thread for the downtime.
Can there be a way to set the starting gold in a practice game? It's really annoying trying to test something or practice something (veigar dfg combos for instance) but having to first rice for like 15 minutes.
also, it'd just be fun to fool around with friends where everyone starts off with 10000 gold or something!
On September 15 2011 03:17 sRapers_ValkS wrote: Dunno how to get this to Riot but here goes..
Can there be a way to set the starting gold in a practice game? It's really annoying trying to test something or practice something (veigar dfg combos for instance) but having to first rice for like 15 minutes.
also, it'd just be fun to fool around with friends where everyone starts off with 10000 gold or something!
ty
the only thing that might be an issue is that every tournament game is done in custom, so if they did do so, they'd have to make sure to have it plastered all over both the start screen and the stats screens to avoid abuse. otherwise, i agree, would be useful
I think it would be very good for Riot if they manage their "soon" problem in a way, since it really is too common. The big example being Dominion ofc which went from late august and right after PAX into the unknown. They are making a really awesome game but company policy should be fixed or something because we get a lot of release dates from employees which then turn out to be wrong. Dominion isn't the only instance, it happened with the EU tribunal (from 1 week maintenance to 5-6 weeks, not sure on exact numbers) and Magma Chamber. The solotion might be just to let a community member browse the forums once every 2 days and give info, so we got someone we can trust. If it is one person slip ups will happen less i think.
why doesn't riot allow us to "rent" runes to try them out? they should make runes that are 1/10th the price that normal runes sell for, but they can only be used for x number of games (like, 3 customs, 2 normals, or 1 ranked). that way you can try a full page of energy runes on akali without blowing 20k IP and deciding they suck.
since riot doesn't really gain anything from rune sales this wouldn't hurt them financially but would bring a lot of the bellyaching about runes to an end IMO
After every second game i get a "Session closed" Every second ranked game i can't join Often i can't pick. Every second arranged game i don't join the queue or the pickscreen with the other players.
So annoying. The client is hell of bugged right now.
On September 16 2011 00:41 ManBearPigNL wrote: I think it would be very good for Riot if they manage their "soon" problem in a way, since it really is too common. The big example being Dominion ofc which went from late august and right after PAX into the unknown. They are making a really awesome game but company policy should be fixed or something because we get a lot of release dates from employees which then turn out to be wrong. Dominion isn't the only instance, it happened with the EU tribunal (from 1 week maintenance to 5-6 weeks, not sure on exact numbers) and Magma Chamber. The solotion might be just to let a community member browse the forums once every 2 days and give info, so we got someone we can trust. If it is one person slip ups will happen less i think.
The alternative is no information at all. It's not something you "fix."
On September 17 2011 06:27 spinesheath wrote: BUG I guess we should mention this as a BUG:
Sometimes her twin fang won't refresh properly. I'm certain it's not my fault, since I've had it happen plenty where I'll E the blue golem while it's standing in my W (after a few chained E's beforehand). If I had to guess, I'd say the problem exists if the E hits at the exact time a poison tick occurs...but I haven't had the time to test it recently.
Also, flash+R bugs out all the time. Same thing with old Nidalee spears and Kassadin - it just targets the wrong way if you do it too fast.
As far as I know there is no way to disable mouse wheel zoom. Since you're typically not going to look very closely at your character in ranked games (unless she has boobs or it's cottontail teemo), it wouldn't hurt to have an option to disable it (or remap to something/nothing, I don't care).
You can see HSGG randomly zooming in step all the time on his stream. That goes for a while until he finally realizes it and zooms out again.
Very rarely when you autoattack a minion you will see a "miss" or "dodge" appear over the minion and your attack will deal no damage. No idea how to reproduce.
Don't know if this has been suggested already, but please put a clock and countdown timer like TL's sidebar on your website schedule for streamed events. People all over the world have to decipher your obscure time-change-codes and wonder if there's any need to offset it by +1/-1.
client suggestions 1) increase friend list size pls 2) when you remove a friend it says accept/decline which is stupid, make it say yes/no or something (this is unimportant lol) 3) make friend groups renamable 4) display first win timer without having to play a game 5) maybe have some way to view your own personal loss count without having to play a game 6) make it less laggy when joining games 7) stop making everything reset to the bottom when i scroll up in a long chat and someone types something new 8) increase friend list size
On September 16 2011 00:41 ManBearPigNL wrote: I think it would be very good for Riot if they manage their "soon" problem in a way, since it really is too common. The big example being Dominion ofc which went from late august and right after PAX into the unknown. They are making a really awesome game but company policy should be fixed or something because we get a lot of release dates from employees which then turn out to be wrong. Dominion isn't the only instance, it happened with the EU tribunal (from 1 week maintenance to 5-6 weeks, not sure on exact numbers) and Magma Chamber. The solotion might be just to let a community member browse the forums once every 2 days and give info, so we got someone we can trust. If it is one person slip ups will happen less i think.
Since when is "Soon" a problem. Nearly every game development company does it, since saying "soon" without specifying a date is a fuck of a lot better than empty promises. Specifying release dates that they aren't sure about (you've mentioned several) is a lot better than "soon" and they're trying to move to a more Blizzard/Valve-defined Soon(tm)
On September 17 2011 03:55 gtrsrs wrote: another brilliant idea i had
why doesn't riot allow us to "rent" runes to try them out? they should make runes that are 1/10th the price that normal runes sell for, but they can only be used for x number of games (like, 3 customs, 2 normals, or 1 ranked). that way you can try a full page of energy runes on akali without blowing 20k IP and deciding they suck.
since riot doesn't really gain anything from rune sales this wouldn't hurt them financially but would bring a lot of the bellyaching about runes to an end IMO
A 24-hour (or 2 hour, even) buyback policy for the store would be pretty neat in general.
-If someone is clearly afk in champ select (no chat, no bans, random champ pick) the game currently does not account for this and starts anyway. A force-dodge would be much more appropriate for this scenario.
Not much can be done about this, people would just go afk in champ select if something goes unfavorably (the champ they wanted being banned right away, etc)
Tooltip when hovering over the retreat ping symbol on the minimap doesn't change based on key bindings.
I bound the retreat ping hotkey to X, and it still shows V as the hotkey in the tooltip. Most likely the same applies for the normal ping, but I have not changed the hotkey for that.
On October 10 2011 21:45 necrosed wrote: hey Riot, please make TreeEskimo cast tournaments. Either that or... if Phreak wants to commentate the game, don't let he be the main observer.
I somewhat agree with that.
While Phreak is an amazing commentator and he knows alot about game mechanics his map overview seems to get slighty worse as the game progress (like at IPL you could hear rivington talking about some stuff going on, while Phreak was hovering around looking at some lane cs'ing).
Can we get an updated tutorial to help people learn how to team fight? One of the hardest things new players have to deal with is what the hell they're meant to do in a team fight. In a 1vs1/ 2vs2 laning situation it's relatively clear what's happening, and there is some margin for error. A team fight is so much harder, faster, often-game deciding, has a lot going on and no room for error (if you are slightly out of position you just die).
A tutorial where you have to go through a few pre-set team fights, and complete simple objectives (e.g protect the carry), would be a great complement to the existing tutorial.
This needs a bump anyways, to remind people to look for possible improvements...
In champ select, on the mastery change page: If you don't actually change anything, you can't leave by clicking something that means "yep I want to use this". You click the X in the top right. Sure it works. But it's not intuitive and badly designed. Make it so that the "save and use" button is a "use" button until you change something and not greyed out or w/e.
When you join for a draft mode game, you are sometimes unable to see any of the champions, sometimes for 1 ban, sometimes throughout the whole ban/picks sesssions.
On November 26 2011 00:19 Sponkz wrote: When you join for a draft mode game, you are sometimes unable to see any of the champions, sometimes for 1 ban, sometimes throughout the whole ban/picks sesssions.
true dat, i had that once when i duo queued and ended up getting randomed to Trundle :/
On November 26 2011 00:19 Sponkz wrote: When you join for a draft mode game, you are sometimes unable to see any of the champions, sometimes for 1 ban, sometimes throughout the whole ban/picks sesssions.
Type something in the search box and delete it again, should fix it for now.
On November 26 2011 00:19 Sponkz wrote: When you join for a draft mode game, you are sometimes unable to see any of the champions, sometimes for 1 ban, sometimes throughout the whole ban/picks sesssions.
Type something in the search box and delete it again, should fix it for now.
We should have a discussion on "passive gameplay" and give suggestions to make the game more fun. I'll start with passive supports like soraka who just sit back and heal, the playstyle seems kinda boring when both lanes just farm up and you cast your spells mindlessly. It discourages small trades and skirmishes because of the high regen. Throwing bananas should be a bigger part of playing soraka IMO.
PS. Specifically nurf soraka omg her armor bonus is ridiculous
need more in game items you purchase for gold, tier 3 items need to have less cross over effects meaning you will not get some many other bonuses when your building for a certain stat, dodge needs to stay and implement a better matchmaking service people who suck should play wiht people who suck
Hi TL, longtime lurker and baddie here! Embarrassed to actually signup and post. I felt I should mention it since they are adding % health runes though.
@Moonbear (or anyone else)
Vlad's Passive and his W do not track the same "Bonus Health" and interact differently with 21 Defense Juggernaut's %health increase. Here is my research as well as the actual Excel file.
I expect this is a bug. Basically, W scales from Bonus Health. If you go from level 1 to 18 without Juggernaut or items, it should gain 0. His passive also scales from Bonus Health. If you go from level 1 to 18 without Juggernaut or items, it should gain 0. Now, if you use Juggernaut, they should either both go up, or neither go up. I expect it is intended for them both to go up. If you from level 1 to 18 with Juggernaut, W gains 8.95 bonus. However, the passive still gains 0 AP when going from level 1 to 18. This is inconsistent.
As a random note, this also makes Juggernaut not as useful on Vlad as one would expect since it never gives any Bonus AP from the extra 3% health from levels OR items, even though it does give bonus damage to his W.
Edit: in case it isn't obvious, this was done without Durability and Veteran's Scars because they would give non-zero values for a baseline.
Do something about the trolls/feeders/leavers, either ban them straight out or take a note from Dota2 and make a secondary troll/feeder/leaver queue where they can play with themselves away from the majority population.
Currently watching GSL Blizzard Cup on one computer and testing a new % health rune on the other.
The % health rune has the exact same issue I mentioned for Juggernaut on Vlad.
Both work with W's bonus health, neither work with Vlad's passive. Funny that the patch preview highlighted Vlad's passive when a % health rune doesn't actually work with his passive.
Edit: For an Easy check, Kindlegem with one Tier 3 % health seal (+0.5%) gives 201 health, as expected. Vlad's passive increases by exactly 5 AP when it should read 5.02 or 5.03 (201/40=5.025, but Vlad's Passive only displays 2 decimal places).
On December 11 2011 03:17 NotSorry wrote: Dear Riot,
Do something about the trolls/feeders/leavers, either ban them straight out or take a note from Dota2 and make a secondary troll/feeder/leaver queue where they can play with themselves away from the majority population.
EPT
. He said he reads "now and again". 
