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On the Veigar discussion: I too prefer to go for a strong Q (usually coupled with 2 or dorans) instead of the W/E maxing. The harass it provides is quite strong, and I feel it's much more stable early on since a W/E/Q combo still is unlikely to kill people at near full health.
I think bottom lane will become interesting, perhaps Karma might make an entrance? Janna hasn't been hit so I imagine she'll still hang around, perhaps characters like Blitzkrank/Alistair might make good supporters aswell.
When it comes to the AP champs, I still can't fully figure out why Malzahar seems so unpopular these days. Sure his combo got nerfed a bit, but the way he can deal with bruisers combined with exelent farm, a great silence and the supress would make me pick him over say Brand any day. I'm also curious to see if Cassio is going to see some more spotlight (saw her do well @ Cologne), she seems quite good aswell.
Talon looks scary as hell damage wise, but at the same time incredibly squishy with (as far as i can see) his ult as his only escape. It'll depend on the cd on this, but this might make him a bit of a pubstomper who'll be killed by any team with focus. We'll see tho =)
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On August 24 2011 22:41 NeoIllusions wrote:
so tru loco...
Was amusing to watch Loci Ryze melt a fed and farmed Pobelt Jax last night. Pretty ridonkulous.
ryze builds both armor/mr naturally,a great counter to jax :>
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attention US citizens:
go away.
(1 hr queue on eu servers again, Us "emergency" gameservers still in place even though zenon himself told us they had ordered new servers to replace them. Im getting fed up.)
Oh wow, and after the 1 hr queue the client doesnt do anything oO
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United States37500 Posts
The strength and weakness of Malz is both in his ulti. In situations where your team has the odds (laning phase ganks), Nether Grasp is amazing. Work it in tandem with his W and even tanks melt. Superb.
The problem is that in a 5v5 setting, the double edge sword of Suppression is not that great. You stun someone on the enemy team but you're stuck in place too. Even if they don't CC you out of your ulti, you're still going to take a lot of damage because 1) you're still a squishy, and 2) guess what, you're not going anywhere.
Compare this to the other AP Carries we saw at IEM (Brand, Annie, Ori), they can initiate (Flash Tibbers) or simply drop their ulti at any time. Malz on the other hand must be more defensive, possibly even depending on the other team to burst their abilities on another teammate first before entering the fray. Most AP players like the ability to go balls deep aggressive at a moments notice.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 24 2011 22:57 locodoco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 22:41 NeoIllusions wrote:
so tru loco...
Was amusing to watch Loci Ryze melt a fed and farmed Pobelt Jax last night. Pretty ridonkulous. ryze builds both armor/mr naturally,a great counter to jax :>
Chau says Ryze is the AP version of Jax. h4h4h4
gl with Veigar practice today. ;p
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On August 24 2011 22:52 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 22:46 NeoIllusions wrote:
I think Veigar and Heimer are both viable picks, even at high elo. They just need to be last picked for your team and team has to build around them. Otherwise, they're pretty silly countered.
AP has such a vast selection... it's not even comparable with other roles. Veigar is stretching it. Heimer is just ridiculous.
Are you saying Heimer is bad?
Both Heimer and Veigar are situational, but certainly viable and actually really strong picks in some cases.
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On August 24 2011 22:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
The strength and weakness of Malz is both in his ulti. In situations where your team has the odds (laning phase ganks), Nether Grasp is amazing. Work it in tandem with his W and even tanks melt. Superb.
The problem is that in a 5v5 setting, the double edge sword of Suppression is not that great. You stun someone on the enemy team but you're stuck in place too. Even if they don't CC you out of your ulti, you're still going to take a lot of damage because 1) you're still a squishy, and 2) guess what, you're not going anywhere.
Compare this to the other AP Carries we saw at IEM (Brand, Annie, Ori), they can initiate (Flash Tibbers) or simply drop their ulti at any time. Malz on the other hand must be more defensive, possibly even depending on the other team to burst their abilities on another teammate first before entering the fray. Most AP players like the ability to go balls deep aggressive at a moments notice.
Yeah, this is pretty accurate. They can nerf orianna's ratios down to 0.1 and she will still have amazing utility since her ulti can CC an entire team for 1 second, which can't be understated at all.
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Thanks a lot =) I guess that is very much true, for me personally I just really like how malz's 3 non-ult spells affect teamfights and do damage, and I just use the ult as an icing on the cake, either for a quick burstdown of someone or defensively. At the moment I play Malz-Swain-Cassio as AP's but I'd like to add another AP to the list. I did not much like Brand-Anivia and Annie, so I guess Orianna is an easy pick. Then again she gets auto-banned pretty much every game so perhaps I'm best off trying something else =)
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On August 24 2011 21:27 spinesheath wrote:
All the other high sustain champs are getting nerfed too. So what if Nidalee doesn't have a godmode laning phase? Those new Spears and the recent buff(bugfix) to Traps make her really strong mid/lategame.
Other high sustain champs also getting nerfed isn't relevant to Nidalee early because Nidalee never went bottom to lane against them. But more to the point, I don't really see spears as something that can make up for having reduced laning presence. Reduced laning presence = reduced farm = reduced damage on spears.
On August 24 2011 21:36 zalz wrote:
Noone of that matters.
You can still go top, you can still punish without end and you can still never be ganked.
Nidalee just goes top and push till the inhib is down, and she can still do that. Perhaps even better now that the leap is going to be subject to CD reduction.
Punish without end? I don't understand how you're "punishing without end" when Nidalee's ability to trade damage is largely a result of her mana being her health bar, something that just got nerfed by 40-60% depending on how much AP you have. With a nerf like that you're *going* to go OOM and when you do you have to bluepill. That's not "punishing without end", that's being a run of the mill solo laner.
As for pounce, yes it's 25% more spammable when you have 40% cdr but to get that you either have to build that CDR or elixir pump + runes + blue buff. Just blue buff alone will only give you 5% more spam than pre-patch, anything more and you have to give up damage or survivability.
Maybe my QQ is a bit unwarranted (after all patch isn't even live yet) but at the same time I feel like your mid/lategame doesn't matter if you're completely forced out of lane early game, especially pre-6 (where Nidalee is weakest). Maybe it won't actually be that bad but zalz certainly seems to think that the heal nerf will be a complete non-issue, an idea I find to be completely ridiculous.
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Anyone else look at Talon and say to themselves "I sure as hell hope he can jungle?"
I mean look at the guy, he is built to gank:
1) Passive that gives bonus damage when he has red buff (as red slows)
2) A DoT that stacks with redbuff, so you can kill them even if they get into safety sometimes
3) A skill that teleports you to your prey
4) A damage buff on target you are ganking
5) An AoE slow so the opponent cannot run
6) The jump silences, means no flash
Not to mention, if he always has red buff means he doesn't need to buy frozen mallet and can then use that gold for more damage or for some defense.
You get him jungling and popping out at lvl 4 with red and I don't think most champions will be getting away, especially if what ever lane talon jumps into has a cc of their own.
Here's hoping that a cloth armor + 5 pot or vamp scepter opening can work on this guy in the jungle, because with Xin's new nerfs... I want another jungle that ganks just as hard.
Just my thoughts.
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people should play whatever the fuck they want
![[image loading]](http://i51.tinypic.com/w6xflx.png)
its very very very very unlikely u'll hit ur champion's "limit"
if u like the playstyle of a certain champion play and master that champion no matter what people tell u is "op"
u can make a champion "op" by playing it well or through a meta shift
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Oriana is really fun to play and in my opinion very rewarding once you get good with the ball. It's also nice to be able to support your team in others ways than simply killing someone out of the way (although she can certainly do that too :D)
She is also really really hard to lane against and isn't like completely dead set to a single item build either. For instance, I was laning against an Akali two nights ago, Akali gets lvl 6 and does then what Akali usually do post 6, but everytime she jumped to QR shroud-harass me, I instantly self shielded, W at my feet and then Q outwards while autoattacking and in most exchanges like that, I came out top, so she had to retreat.
When she finally got me was my own really dumb mistake, my ball was out at max range, jungler moves in, akali leaps, I move towards turret and ulti a split second too early before my ball returned. Either way Akali walked away from the ensuing fight with 15 hp ^^ Would have got a double kill if I wasn't too trigger happy.
I was really surprised they didn't nerf her hard this patch.
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You are now able to mute players from the scoreboard
aah great stuff. They should be adding three buttons aswell to either mute just the enemy team, your team, or everybody. Also a toggle option to do so in each and every game you are in solo normal game queue.
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On August 24 2011 23:15 myk3 wrote:aah great stuff. They should be adding three buttons aswell to either mute just the enemy team, your team, or everybody. Also a toggle option to do so in each and every game you are in solo normal game queue.
the commands are already in game, shoudln't be too hard
/ignore ally
/ignore enemy
/ignore all
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On August 24 2011 23:12 Insanious wrote:
Anyone else look at Talon and say to themselves "I sure as hell hope he can jungle?"
I mean look at the guy, he is built to gank:
1) Passive that gives bonus damage when he has red buff (as red slows)
2) A DoT that stacks with redbuff, so you can kill them even if they get into safety sometimes
3) A skill that teleports you to your prey
4) A damage buff on target you are ganking
5) An AoE slow so the opponent cannot run
6) The jump silences, means no flash
Not to mention, if he always has red buff means he doesn't need to buy frozen mallet and can then use that gold for more damage or for some defense.
You get him jungling and popping out at lvl 4 with red and I don't think most champions will be getting away, especially if what ever lane talon jumps into has a cc of their own.
Here's hoping that a cloth armor + 5 pot or vamp scepter opening can work on this guy in the jungle, because with Xin's new nerfs... I want another jungle that ganks just as hard.
Just my thoughts.
I imagine the silence being too short to really prevent flash reliably (spotlight seemed like 0.5s-1s), however I totally agree.
Only sad part: I doubt he's gonna be the quickest jungle out there. Though actually... his W (Rake) sounds like it can clear small camps quickly.. hmm..
How long after release did it take for people to jungle Jarvan btw? Also why isn't that guy seen anymore? :S
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On August 24 2011 23:07 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:27 spinesheath wrote:
All the other high sustain champs are getting nerfed too. So what if Nidalee doesn't have a godmode laning phase? Those new Spears and the recent buff(bugfix) to Traps make her really strong mid/lategame. Other high sustain champs also getting nerfed isn't relevant to Nidalee early because Nidalee never went bottom to lane against them. But more to the point, I don't really see spears as something that can make up for having reduced laning presence. Reduced laning presence = reduced farm = reduced damage on spears. Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 21:36 zalz wrote:
Noone of that matters.
You can still go top, you can still punish without end and you can still never be ganked.
Nidalee just goes top and push till the inhib is down, and she can still do that. Perhaps even better now that the leap is going to be subject to CD reduction. Punish without end? I don't understand how you're "punishing without end" when Nidalee's ability to trade damage is largely a result of her mana being her health bar, something that just got nerfed by 40-60% depending on how much AP you have. With a nerf like that you're *going* to go OOM and when you do you have to bluepill. That's not "punishing without end", that's being a run of the mill solo laner. As for pounce, yes it's 25% more spammable when you have 40% cdr but to get that you either have to build that CDR or elixir pump + runes + blue buff. Just blue buff alone will only give you 5% more spam than pre-patch, anything more and you have to give up damage or survivability. Maybe my QQ is a bit unwarranted (after all patch isn't even live yet) but at the same time I feel like your mid/lategame doesn't matter if you're completely forced out of lane early game, especially pre-6 (where Nidalee is weakest). Maybe it won't actually be that bad but zalz certainly seems to think that the heal nerf will be a complete non-issue, an idea I find to be completely ridiculous.
The heal nerf will not affect her in any serious matter. Not nearly enough as it should be.
Think about what her heal is now, and be honest. Her heal currently means you never ever have to leave the lane. It's so cheap and heals so much that you can't ever be forced off. Anyone that tries to deal damage gets damaged way more by you and you can just heal yourself up again.
Nidalee is going to go from godlike to god-esque. She will remain a perma ban in tournaments simply because:
1) You still can't force her off the lane with 1v1 damage.
2) You still can't gank her.
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United States37500 Posts
Jarman is a pretty bad jungler imoimo.
Better question is why isn't he top lane anymore.
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People were trying out jungle jarvan immediately I think
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
so janna + boots 3 carry best opening bot lane now prob? followed by karma and soraka
then taric and alistar and sona
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On August 24 2011 23:19 NeoIllusions wrote:
Jarman is a pretty bad jungler imoimo.
Better question is why isn't he top lane anymore.
rjs says he gets raped too hard at top now
not much favorable match ups for him in the current meta
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EPT
