• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:06
CET 16:06
KST 00:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League65Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Do we even care about balance? [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7744 users

[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 224

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 222 223 224 225 226 231 Next
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 13 2011 16:13 GMT
#4461
On September 14 2011 01:09 Southlight wrote:
I think I leave mpen reds in the runepage because I'm too lazy to change my runepage for AP casters, as I've only got five pages and like three of them are set up for tank/melee lol. If I played AP more often I'd probably run flat armor or MR on red instead, as I agree, the little mpen doesn't feel like it makes a difference and the 15% off mastery generally performs the same after a certain amount of MR anyways.

I think the main draw of MPen reds is that vs. lots of targets, they're giving you near true damage after Sorcs (anyone not using flat MR runes/masteries--which is actually a fairly surprising number), putting them at a ~10% damage increase. Having near-true damage for those few levels before MR/lvl glyphs really kick in (or longer vs. anyone not using MR glyphs of either form) should feel noticeable.
Moderator
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
September 13 2011 16:14 GMT
#4462
I rarely, rarely ever run Sorcs.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
September 13 2011 16:14 GMT
#4463
I expect Dominion to signal the start of Season 2. With the Preseason about to start, I wouldn't be surprised if we got it during Thanksgiving or the week before.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Haemonculus
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States6980 Posts
September 13 2011 16:18 GMT
#4464
What reds to run for singed? I've always had mpen reds for him, (and for any other champ which deals any magic damage), but honestly since I'm not going to be getting any real other mpen items on him ever... is it even worth it? Would more armor runes be better?
I admire your commitment to being *very* oily
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
September 13 2011 16:19 GMT
#4465
Flat MR is probably good (flat MR red is more efficient than flat armor red, for some reason).
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 13 2011 16:20 GMT
#4466
On September 14 2011 01:14 Southlight wrote:
I rarely, rarely ever run Sorcs.


Only Sorcs if they have a loooot of MR (generally don't that early), or if there's no CC. Otherwise, Mercs all day on AP.
It's your boy Guzma!
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 13 2011 16:23 GMT
#4467
On September 14 2011 01:20 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2011 01:14 Southlight wrote:
I rarely, rarely ever run Sorcs.


Only Sorcs if they have a loooot of MR (generally don't that early), or if there's no CC. Otherwise, Mercs all day on AP.

no, Sorcs if they have little/no MR. If they have a lot of MR, Sorcs suck shit.

/smashhasananeurysmanddies
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 13 2011 16:25 GMT
#4468
Really? Doesn't make much sense, but I'm sure you probably know better. Care to explain the reasoning?
It's your boy Guzma!
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-13 16:27:05
September 13 2011 16:25 GMT
#4469
Yeeeah. I dunno, I'd rather get that quick NLR->Deathcap than invest freaking 750 into a Sorc Boots. I'll usually only upgrade to Tier 2 Boots if I desperately need some sort of defense, otherwise for AP heroes in particular I don't find a pressing need to upgrade. Much more important to hit core items faster.

Edit:
On September 14 2011 01:25 Requizen wrote:
Really? Doesn't make much sense, but I'm sure you probably know better. Care to explain the reasoning?


20 flat mpen is useless when they have like 150+ MR. Void Staff will chunk down most of that, along with the 15% mastery, so the 20 ends up being like 10. 750 gold for 10 mpen is really cost inefficient.

I only get sorc boots on heroes like Annie and Aniv if I'm doing the cheesy mpen + sorc + guise build and just fucking people up in the first 20 minutes.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
September 13 2011 16:26 GMT
#4470
On September 14 2011 00:51 LaNague wrote:
if riven has good skins, ill just buy the pack cause she is similar to a hero design i created in my head :D

You want to see her skins I hear TL ask? Let MoonBear deliver.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]

Riot is going to bankrupt us all I swear.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
September 13 2011 16:29 GMT
#4471
The Animu skin makes her so KAWAII DESU. But TBH I'm prolly not going to get any of her skins. Tell me when Swain gets a Crimson Elite skin. Then I'll get one.
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 13 2011 16:31 GMT
#4472
On September 14 2011 01:25 Southlight wrote:

20 flat mpen is useless when they have like 150+ MR. Void Staff will chunk down most of that, along with the 15% mastery, so the 20 ends up being like 10. 750 gold for 10 mpen is really cost inefficient.

I only get sorc boots on heroes like Annie and Aniv if I'm doing the cheesy mpen + sorc + guise build and just fucking people up in the first 20 minutes.



Ah, so it's a scaling thing. Makes sense.




Also THAT SECOND RIVEN SKIN. If it looks as good in game as it does on the art... my goodness. The Crimson Elite one is ok for the steampunky look, but not really my thing.
It's your boy Guzma!
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
September 13 2011 16:35 GMT
#4473
On September 14 2011 01:25 Requizen wrote:
Really? Doesn't make much sense, but I'm sure you probably know better. Care to explain the reasoning?

Nuke damage before resists: 500


Target has 20 Mres

Damage without 20 MPen: 417
Damage with 20 MPen: 500
+83 damage, 20% increase in damage


Target has 100 Mres

Damage without 20 MPen: 250
Damage with 20 MPen: 278
+28 damage, 11% increase in damage


Target has 200 Mres

Damage without 20 MPen: 167
Damage with 20 MPen: 179
+12 damage, 7% increase in damage
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Orpheos
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1663 Posts
September 13 2011 16:36 GMT
#4474
wtf why cant they just make that second skin rivens normal art? her normal looks super dumb.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
September 13 2011 16:37 GMT
#4475
On September 14 2011 01:25 Southlight wrote:
20 flat mpen is useless when they have like 150+ MR. Void Staff will chunk down most of that, along with the 15% mastery, so the 20 ends up being like 10. 750 gold for 10 mpen is really cost inefficient.

I only get sorc boots on heroes like Annie and Aniv if I'm doing the cheesy mpen + sorc + guise build and just fucking people up in the first 20 minutes.

Perhaps this is just in the games I'm playing, but personally I find a LOT of the time players stay on base MR or close to it (e.g. only runed MR) for a pretty long time. Honestly, if Sorcs is giving me a noticeble multiplicative damage increase from when I buy it until the enemy AP/AD/support gets around to buying a Negatron Cloak (which is easily 15 minutes+ of game time), I'm getting my money's worth. Sure that 20 MPen eventually becomes useless, but lots of people take their sweet time about getting that MR.
Moderator
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
September 13 2011 16:39 GMT
#4476
Squishies often stay low but good squishies usually stay away from most of your burst anyways. Otherwise you're generally looking at most people having AT LEAST 100 MR pretty easily off of one Negatron.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 13 2011 16:41 GMT
#4477
On September 14 2011 01:36 Orpheos wrote:
wtf why cant they just make that second skin rivens normal art? her normal looks super dumb.


In her original story, she was an exiled Demacian, so I think that second skin probably was her original design. Then they changed it, so the Demacian color scheme didn't fit, so we got the new one.

I like the current standard. I'll probably play with it for a while before getting the second one unless the bundle is really well priced.
It's your boy Guzma!
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
September 13 2011 16:45 GMT
#4478
Moonbear which champs are gonna be on sale with the next sale:p?
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-13 16:53:18
September 13 2011 16:51 GMT
#4479
On September 14 2011 01:39 Southlight wrote:
Squishies often stay low but good squishies usually stay away from most of your burst anyways. Otherwise you're generally looking at most people having AT LEAST 100 MR pretty easily off of one Negatron.

Using Annie Q as an example, you only need ~15 AP for Sorcs to beat the damage increase from Blasting Wand's 40 AP vs. a 100 MR target, or ~115 AP vs a 150 MR target (numbers that you easily beat while building toward Deathcap). They don't become THAT cost-ineffective vs. tankier targets till past 150 MR--where the breakeven AP levels start to get unrealistically high. Having the really strong 20% damage boost vs. squishier targets feels worth it to me when you're not sacrificing that much damage vs. tankier targets at all.

Sorcs obviously become really bad at the point where you want/are getting Void Staff, but seeing as you're getting a good 15 minutes' use out of them, it doesn't feel that bad to me.
Moderator
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
September 13 2011 16:52 GMT
#4480
Except it costs 750 gold, so you delay your NLR/deathcap by a significant amount. Would you rather have the sorc boot or the NLR?
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Prev 1 222 223 224 225 226 231 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
19:00
ScienceCraft - Day 2
RotterdaM873
IndyStarCraft 552
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 873
IndyStarCraft 552
Hui .266
Serral 159
Classic 51
MindelVK 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 42486
EffOrt 1124
BeSt 700
Horang2 554
FanTaSy 442
Stork 386
firebathero 259
Snow 204
Larva 201
ProTech142
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 110
Mind 108
Barracks 88
Sexy 77
Last 69
sorry 66
Movie 54
Killer 48
Shinee 38
ToSsGirL 37
Pusan 32
Hm[arnc] 28
Aegong 22
JYJ 19
soO 19
Rock 18
Sacsri 16
Noble 9
yabsab 9
Shine 7
Creator 1
Dota 2
Gorgc15925
qojqva1746
Counter-Strike
fl0m3610
allub293
Other Games
singsing2202
B2W.Neo1586
Liquid`RaSZi1133
Beastyqt603
Mlord553
DeMusliM240
KnowMe165
XaKoH 147
syndereN140
ToD133
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL28021
Other Games
gamesdonequick1169
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 37
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3613
League of Legends
• Nemesis2734
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 54m
WardiTV Weekly
20h 54m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 19h
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Yamato Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.