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On September 08 2011 17:23 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 17:07 tyCe wrote:On September 08 2011 15:36 Ryuu314 wrote:On September 08 2011 13:40 broz0rs wrote:
yeah, I never understood the Corki exodus. His nerfs last patch were not that significant, even on a percentage basis. The lost of the blind was what really made Corki fell out of favor. Right now, Corki probably has the greatest raw dps out of all the range AD champs. The problem, however, is that the other range ADs simply offer more than Corki. Ashe has huge utility, Caitlyn is an amazing laner, Tristana has really good lategame with her insane range and is just as mobile as Corki not to mention her laning is pretty strong as well due to her burst, Urgot is a strong laner and is also pretty darn tanky. The #1 reason why Corki was favored pre-nerf was the fact that he could essentially take on any autoattacker 1v1, be it bruiser or range AD, if his opponent relies on autoattacks, Corki had a huge chance of winning due to his blind. When they removed that, he simply didn't offer anything other than raw damage that the other range ADs don't offer. The other range ADs simply have more utility. Yeah but Corki offers very consistent, sustained and not to mention strong AoE damage in teamfights. I mean, no other AD has the ability to utterly decimate an entire team's HP in a teamfight. He lacks the burst of APs like Annie of course and the range of ADs like Caitlyn, but his mobility and sustained AoE hybrid DPS is just so strong in teamfights. He can pretty safely lane before level 6 with W as an extra low cd flash and his passive makes it very easy to last hit. Once he reaches level 6, his laning improves significantly and even if he was being pressured, he can just R-Q to farm. I'm still a LoL noob but I really don't understand why he's been neglected as an AD for the last month or so. Everything you listed about Corki another range AD can do just as well or better. If you want strong AoE, pick MF. If you want mobility, you take Tristana (longer range = less danger). If you want safe/strong laning, you pick Caitlyn. Yes, his farming is pretty darn safe and effective with R+Q, but that requires enormous amounts of mana, which means you either have to get a manamune (which is sub-optimal) or you're gonna want Soraka, who's better off as a solo laner/less support oriented anyways now. Even then, high level players have no problems farming with w/e champ they play. Besides, Cait's farming capability rivals that of Corki's due to her passive+Q. I mean, yes, Corki's sustained damage is still very likely the highest out of all the range ADs due to his passive and his ability to use Triforce like a boss. But the problem is that other range AD carries simply bring more to the table. Also, it's worth noting that Corki's "core" build is also much more expensive than that of other range ADs. Triforce+IE/BT+LW is more expensive than IE/BT+PD+LW by almost 2k gold.
You hit the nail on the head.
When you pick an AD the questions you asked yourself used to be:
-Do I want insane range lategame + raw damage? (Tristana)
-Do I want insanley strong laning, while risking to lose power later on? (Caitlynn)
-Do I want to have pure, evil, raw damage through midgame? (MF)
-Do I need huge amounts of CC for our team? (Ashe)
In that list, Corki was already all over the place. Corkis midgame is insane, his total damage output slightly lower than MF though. Also his (bot-)laning was a little bit weaker. However, he was the stronger solo laner and had a timeframe (Manamune+BC+Sheen) where he was literally unstoppable. Also his poke is probably #1 from any AD carries.
The Q nerf took away his ability to 1v1 and carry small skirmishes better than any of the above. The E nerf made one of the only champs able to SERIOUSLY use BC weaker. The R nerf hit his poke and laning.
Imo now you're left with less raw damage than champs with similar utility (MF/Tristana). Since he can't really win 1n1s against those anymore there is no real reason to pick Corki over those.
Imo either give him his damage back OR give him the blind back.
Also I'm being bitter vet as fuck which also makes me totally biased. Corki was my first <3 ranged AD, the first champ where I delivered a "fuck off, I don't fucking care how much you feed, I carry you anyway"-attitude (thx loco!) and I'm going to end Season #1 with like 160 Corki games.
Dno, my Tristana, Vayne Kog Maw and especially MF are all worse than my Corki but I feel I'm carrying harder with those now because of the issues mentioned above.
For ADs, I feel as if people horribly underrate Tristana/MF/Ez at the moment. Inb4 Tristana nerf next. >_>
Edit: Also keep in mind all the IE and BT builds you see on Corki nowadays are abominations people started after they were being forced botlane. Manamune -> BC -> Sheen -> Triforce ez #1 Corki to abuse his strong sololaning and scaling with spells. (Actually that might still be his niche. I THINK he's still the AD who scales strongest with levels AND has a strong sololane presence at the same time.)
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Well, Corki just seems really versatile, which seems to be a really good quality for solo queue. I mean, you never know which of your teammates is going to suck, and he has some AP damage, some AD damage and some true damage, which is great to cover for "insert x player here" if they're not pulling their weight. Also, he seems to be harder to counter pick, and can feasibly lane in any lane (I'll probably get totally bashed for this). In tournament play, I can understand why more specialised AD carries are chosen.
I should probably try Tristana though. I remember playing her in a free week when I was like level 5 summoner and completely owning (comparatively speaking) with her, but for some reason I considered her cheap and mained Ashe afterwards to "learn the game".
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You guys make it seem as if he was some kind of super bad champion lol. Why would i pick corki you ask? Because i want to play corki.
I pick corki when i want to play a champion that has phosphorous bomb, valkyrie, gatling gun, missile barrage and hextech shrapnel shells. It's not like he is UP champion so why not pick him?
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On September 08 2011 19:22 Kaniol wrote:
You guys make it seem as if he was some kind of super bad champion lol. Why would i pick corki you ask? Because i want to play corki.
I pick corki when i want to play a champion that has phosphorous bomb, valkyrie, gatling gun, missile barrage and hextech shrapnel shells. It's not like he is UP champion so why not pick him?
Well, when you phrase the argument this way, there is no real point discussing champion picks :p
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I just think that all of the ranged ADs are almost equally viable (maybe except for Sivir), i literally can't imagine a game where i would have said "if we had ranged dps other than corki we would have won".
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Eh, corki still has high damage output and has really good synergy with champions like jarvan and taric *shrugs*
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On September 08 2011 19:40 Kaniol wrote:
I just think that all of the ranged ADs are almost equally viable (maybe except for Sivir), i literally can't imagine a game where i would have said "if we had ranged dps other than corki we would have won".
There are huge differences between the ranged ADs. Each of them has his (or rather her since most of them are females) place. Champs like for example Cait and Vayne are not interchangeable.
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I'm getting a 'you are not allowed to join the Queue because you are currently assigned to a game' error. Any way to fix this? How long do I have to wait?
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On September 08 2011 19:59 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 19:40 Kaniol wrote:
I just think that all of the ranged ADs are almost equally viable (maybe except for Sivir), i literally can't imagine a game where i would have said "if we had ranged dps other than corki we would have won". There are huge differences between the ranged ADs. Each of them has his (or rather her since most of them are females) place. Champs like for example Cait and Vayne are not interchangeable.
While this is true that for example vayne or kog kill tanky champs really well you have to remember that you don't run into stuff like 4x tanky dps comps too often. Every ranged DPS has it's role but you don't happen to play too often vs enemies who leave such an obvious "vulnerable spots" in their teamcomp.
Like i said again - i don't remember the last time when i played a game and was like "oh if only we had XXX instead of YYY as a ranged dps", maybe at higher elo it's different but certainly not here (for me usually when carrysupport bot loses to other carrysupport it's because of bad support pick)
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No you can definitely feel a big difference. And supports rise or fall based on the AD matchup, although it's definitely chic to blame the support pick.
I hate having Vayne because I think she's probably the most irritatingly useless AD carry in teamfights, as an example.
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United States37500 Posts
Yeah but she also melts face once she hits the 40 min mark with enough farm.
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Corki used to be batshit imba. Now that they nerfed him, and also ad bot meta means corki,one of the few carries that can go toe to toe with casters due to insane early game spell dmg, now doesn't really have a role. .I prefer they buff back his e. No suggestions on how to fix Q which was so RNG - probably miss next hit debuff?
Also, no clue on how Vayne is bad. Win after farms. Probably is bad in teamfights with no walls though.
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On September 08 2011 20:50 NeoIllusions wrote:
Yeah but she also melts face once she hits the 40 min mark with enough farm.
Not anymore so than other ranged AD imo because they have better range.
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United States37500 Posts
On September 08 2011 20:55 Southlight wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 20:50 NeoIllusions wrote:
Yeah but she also melts face once she hits the 40 min mark with enough farm. Not anymore so than other ranged AD imo because they have better range.
What? She still whittles away brusiers and tanks at an earlier stage in the game than any other AD.
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The amount of hits she can land on opposing heroes is less than other ranged carries who strike from earlier due to their superior range. Whereas an incoming bruiser might take like 3 hits to close in against like a Cait, you get one shot off as Vayne due to her terrible range. She has her Q and E to keep distance but all of that is simply to offset her lack of range.
This is why Cait is retarded for instance and has significantly better early-mid game, as she gets more hits in as the start fights + she has a skip that allows for more kiting.
Corki's undervalued for whatever reason because the rockets are still stupid as hell, but whatever.
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Vayne does best in smaller fights, ideally in the jungle. But she's also ridiculously good at hunting down enemies once a fight has been won. Basically she's the kind of champ that can snowball games really hard.
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She prefers smaller fights early but it's not like a lot of other ranged AD don't prefer smaller fighters earlier on either (when they're less likely to take random damage), especially as most of them have really good kiting power and can 1v1 pretty effectively.
Edit:
[8:04:41 AM] NeoIllusions|Renekton@com7: such a vayne hater
#1
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United States37500 Posts
It's ok. I can't play Vayne for the life of me either. 
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Vayne? I can't play ranged AD, period.
I'm talking from the standpoint of tank/support lol. Fuck Vayne. SO USELESS.
[Initiate]--------[Cait] NP
[Initiate]---[Vayne] Am I in range yet? Oh fuck, I initiated but now she's getting beat on because she as like 50 range. Fuck, now I have to back up and try to help her. Ahh, ahh, she died to Irelia and Annie in one burst because she's terrible and has 50 range and can't kite worth shit. Awesome.
Or more like
[Initiate] Vayne on other side of map, but we win 4v5 npnp and then Vayne come in and clean up YES CARRY THAT SHIT I mean sorry, right, I'm not supposed to expect Vayne to do DAMAGE in teamfights
#1 Vayne Hater.
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She has 550 range. Same as MF, Ez, Corki. She can get in range easily due to her passive and Q/E to maintain that range.
My guess is that all the Vaynes you play with always tumble towards the enemy huehue.
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EPT
