|
Okay, I did a rant about this on my stream today and it dawned on me that a lot of players, even like 1400-1500 players, don't understand this. I'll just paraphrase what I said on stream.
I used to teach chess to little elementary school kids when I was in college. Shit paid like $60 an hour, it was cash. After watching these little kids play chess, you start to realize that you take things for granted as a good player. Simple things, like mating patterns.
So there are two things I want to talk about today: Posturing and mating patterns.
Posturing:
Posturing is what I see a lot of really terrible players do in games. They'll hang out in the middle of nowhere by themselves trying to intimidate the enemy team just because they have nothing to do. It's like when you're playing chess against someone and they just keep checking your king for no fucking reason but because they don't know what to do. There are clearly better things to be doing, but they see an opportunity to check your king and they're like hurrr durrrrrrrrrr check durrrrrrrr.
This is retarded.
Don't check to check. You can't win a game through check. Nobody ever died from check. Stop fucking posturing. You took the inhib? Good, get the fuck out. Don't try to stand around in their base zoning them off of the outside of their base. You're not hurting them in any way by sitting around in their base by yourself after you took their inhib. You lost a tower? Okay, whatever, don't fucking defend the middle of the lane. Unless you have complete ward coverage of the map (hard now with the ward changes) or are pushing/controlling the wave for a reason (dragon's up soon, this wave needs to be pushed so I can be there), there's no fucking reason to keep a wave's equilibrium point way the fuck out in the middle of nowhere. Again, it's fine if you know where everyone is and that they can't get you where you are, but I see a lot of bads defending waves in the middle of nowhere without any wards or reason to be defending there. Just let it push or push it and go gank/shop/ward/jungle.
Mating Patterns
When you let little kids play chess, the game eventually comes down to, invariably, one kid with just a king and another kid with a king and 1-3 minor pieces like a queen/rook/bishop/knight. If you were the kid with the pieces, you'd checkmate in like six moves max. The game ends up lasting another 40 minutes because neither of them have any idea what is going on in the game or how to finish it.
It's pretty similar to what I observe many LoL players doing in games.
Chess has a ton of complicated checkmating patterns, like mates with just one knight (sac a piece that's protected to block a king into a corner surrounded by two pawns and a rook, then put a knight on the square attacking the king where it can't be taken by anything) or crazy complicated eight-move forced checkmates but in general games at the elementary level are won by one tactic: steamroll. You steamroll someone by pushing their king into a wall with queens and rooks. It's fucking easy once you know how to do it, and it's like the most basic checkmate that everyone knows, but you watch a little kid play chess and he has no idea this tactic is even possible. Here are the steps to steamroll the enemy team in LoL:
Step 1: Do something that sets you up with baron buff.
Win a fight. Shroom the top side of the map. Ward fucking everywhere. Be in position when the enemy is out of position. Sneak it. It doesn't matter how you get baron, as long as you can get it when the enemy can't kill you while you're doing it or immediately afterwards.
Step 2: Gather as a full team in the mid lane in a safe spot at full or close to full hp/mana.
If you have to heal, go heal. Get your buffs. Buy your items. Light a cigarette. Do whatever the fuck you need to do to be full health and in the mid lane with your team.
Step 3: Siege the mid towers.
THIS is what your ranged carry is for. It's pretty common for people to say stuff like "we need a ranged carry" during champ select without having any idea WHY you need a ranged carry. Your ranged carry is for winning tower exchanges when you have baron buff. Their goal is to do as much damage to the tower as possible every time the creeps get near it without getting your team too hurt. Teams melt towers with a baron buff and a little bit of focus. Ideally you want a big wave behind you so the enemy can't just instaclear the creeps and use the tower aggro to keep you from hitting it, but generally you want to get the tower low and either start a fight while killing it, kill it -> start a fight, or kill it -> repeat at next tower.
Step 4: Take the mid inhib.
Hoo-fucking-raaaaay! You killed all their mid towers. Mid is the most important lane because it provides the most map control and it's more easy to defend at the same time as a side lane than saaaaay, top and bottom are. So now that you've got their towers, take their inhibitor. Baron buff should ALMOST ALWAYS be used to get an inhibitor, maybe two.
Step 5: Go fucking nuts on the other objectives.
Get the fuck out of the base, right now, unless they're all dead and you can just win it. Go take buffs and dragons and outer towers and shit. If you still have time on baron, go back, heal, buy shit with your newfound money and repeat the process on another lane. Generally you don't push the lane that's already pushed. Like, there's no point in pushing mid anymore. Pretty much at all. It will push itself, and everything important there has already been taken. Five man another lane and take a second inhib.
Step 6: Second inhib.
Derp
Step 7: Nexus
Now that you've cleared two of the inhibitors in their base it should be pretty simple to clean their nexus out. You can't really do it with just one inhibitor down because you don't have the creep control to do it, but with two down minions start to bunch up inside their base where you fight and then you get this nice huge ball of super creeps to tank shots and raze towers with you.
INSERT THIS STEP WHEREVER IT HAPPENS: Ace the enemy team.
OH SHIT, you just engaged them because they were out of position and you FUCKIN ACED THEM! HI5! Talk some shit in chat and immediately rush for the most important tower or inhibitor you can take. Keep your tab button held down and just take shit as fast as possible. If you can't win the game gtfo before they can kill you. Be a little safe and gtfo slightly early unless it's absolutely crucial that you get something to stay in the game. If they couldn't hold their nexus towers, well, gg.
----------------------
So yeah, I think people are lacking in basic game sense and not having to explain this to someone who's like "DERRRR WE GOT BARON IMMA GO PUSH TOP HURRR WHILE U GUYS 4 MAN MID DURRRRRRR I NEED 400 FOR ZHONYAS DERRR" would be nice.
Hi5!
|
|
|
Yay, more rants! I love these.
My teams tend to always refuse to do baron because: "We can push mid instead!", followed by the occasional "noob, l2p"
|
get your own catchphrases assholes
|
do those mating patterns work for relationships too?
|
Very nice writeup, good job  .
I often see people just running around the map like headless chickens getting themselves killed for no reason. What's worse, many people at my level simply refuse to buy frikkin' wards, so that leaves me with the balancing act between gimping my gear and leaving us blind. The only ward people often see the need for is baron. Dragon if I'm very lucky.
It's incredible what difference some basic knowledge learned from posts like this can make.
|
On December 31 2010 21:23 DarthThienAn wrote:
do those mating patterns work for relationships too?
Yes, I tend to steamroll often with great success.
|
Pretty educational on overall lol
|
|
|
"LoL for dummies?"
Don't understand how people can reach level 30 and not understand these fundamental ideas you're ranting about =o
|
I find myself doing *most* of the things mentioned above (cuz of all the people teaching me in LP :3)
BUT being able to convince other people to do so is surprisingly hard.
|
[B]Step 1: Do something that sets you up with baron buff.
Win a fight. Shroom the top side of the map. Ward fucking everywhere. Be in position when the enemy is out of position. Sneak it. It doesn't matter how you get baron, as long as you can get it when the enemy can't kill you while you're doing it or immediately afterwards.
Love it.
|
Step 1: Do something that sets you up with baron buff.
Win a fight. Shroom the top side of the map. Ward fucking everywhere. Be in position when the enemy is out of position. Sneak it. It doesn't matter how you get baron, as long as you can get it when the enemy can't kill you while you're doing it or immediately afterwards.
Love it. (You're welcome btw)
|
On December 31 2010 22:00 Senx wrote:
"LoL for dummies?"
Don't understand how people can reach level 30 and not understand these fundamental ideas you're ranting about =o
My theory is that they just keep playing without thinking or wanting to think about what they did wrong, and without browsing forums like these Some people play without much of a competitive mindset, and just don't care (much) about improving their skills.
|
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS
|
On December 31 2010 22:00 Senx wrote:
"LoL for dummies?"
Don't understand how people can reach level 30 and not understand these fundamental ideas you're ranting about =o
Youve absolutely no idea, honestly I thought the reason for a ranged carry was something entirely else than what 5hit explain here. And I hit 1700 rating without knowing that, but other than that I knew the most of it.
Dont take stupid shit for granted, noobs dont (;
iirc redtooth is one of TLs best players, but he didnt have much clue about how the game worked, just that it if he did this and that he won. He didnt know why. (iirc southlight mentioned this sometime in the old thread)
|
On January 01 2011 00:07 Odds wrote:
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS
I agree with this, even on the high level with competent players. Watching high level play the one thing that stands out above everything else is the gargantuan amount of pinging going on. Everyone pings everything.
|
I'm not saying I have a great grasp of it either, but one thing I've noticed in my unranked games is that people never really know when to do Baron.
|
On January 01 2011 00:07 Odds wrote:
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS
Actually I have to disagree. People never react when I ping dragon or baron to have them gather there before the enemy team does. Pinging to get my allies into position just seems hopeless.
Instead, whenever you ping an enemy or even close to one, people will engage him. No matter how stupid it is, they will engage. And after that they blame their suicide on the one who pinged. "You pinged so I engaged", I have heard that more than once. Why do people even "listen" to pings (but actually misinterpret them), but not when you give them clear orders via chat?
Ideally, pings would allow your allies to quickly spot enemy movements even if they weren't watching the minimap all the time. Doesn't work out like that in my games.
|
On January 01 2011 00:36 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 00:07 Odds wrote:
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS Actually I have to disagree. People never react when I ping dragon or baron to have them gather there before the enemy team does. Pinging to get my allies into position just seems hopeless. Instead, whenever you ping an enemy or even close to one, people will engage him. No matter how stupid it is, they will engage. And after that they blame their suicide on the one who pinged. "You pinged so I engaged", I have heard that more than once. Why do people even "listen" to pings (but actually misinterpret them), but not when you give them clear orders via chat? Ideally, pings would allow your allies to quickly spot enemy movements even if they weren't watching the minimap all the time. Doesn't work out like that in my games.
For people that don't pay attention to chat, pings make noise :D
|
On January 01 2011 00:36 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 00:07 Odds wrote:
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS Actually I have to disagree. People never react when I ping dragon or baron to have them gather there before the enemy team does. Pinging to get my allies into position just seems hopeless.
If they don't listen, you need to ping more. Seriously ping non stop until they do what you are telling them to do, often times they'll do it just to get you to shut the fuck up
|
That often starts a flame war which generally leads to a loss. Besides, if they only react after 100 pings, it is most likely too late.
|
I think it really helps to think of LoL as a game of objectives. The ultimate objective to take down the Nexus, but to do that, you need to be stronger than the other team. The objectives you need to focus on to kill the Nexus are champion kills, buffs, dragon, baron, and map control (towers/wards), at a very broad level. You can distill that even further by saying that your objective is gold and experience, in order to give yourself the advantages to secure things like dragon.
If you're not actively working toward one of those objectives, you're wasting time.
What's difficult for me, though, is knowing how to play from behind. I can press advantages relatively well, but when I'm at a pretty big disadvantage, I'm not sure how to play.
|
On January 01 2011 01:29 spinesheath wrote:
That often starts a flame war which generally leads to a loss
Much less so i've found than actually trying to reason with them. Mindless pings they can follow but words? noooo
|
On January 01 2011 06:01 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 01:29 spinesheath wrote:
That often starts a flame war which generally leads to a loss Much less so i've found than actually trying to reason with them. Mindless pings they can follow but words? noooo
I usually just get "stop pinging, faggot". Well, I guess this is derailing the thread... Then again in which thread do we discuss how to get your allies to do the right things?
|
It's a test of moderation. Ping or double ping; if no response after a bit, ping more insistently. Repeat as needed. If they say "stop pinging" then they're probably now paying attention to chat, so type fast while you have their attention. Above all, try to remain polite.
|
United States47024 Posts
Excellent.
My only complaint is that the thread should have been titled [Learning 5hit].
|
On January 01 2011 00:36 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 00:07 Odds wrote:
Important note: To carry idiots, PING LOTS. NEVER STOP PINGING. They follow the pings like the sheep they are and eventually accidentally do what you are trying to get them to do. Nobody understands english, but EVERYBODY understands pings, and seems to feel compelled to follow them.
ABUSE PINGS Actually I have to disagree. People never react when I ping dragon or baron to have them gather there before the enemy team does. Pinging to get my allies into position just seems hopeless. Instead, whenever you ping an enemy or even close to one, people will engage him. No matter how stupid it is, they will engage. And after that they blame their suicide on the one who pinged. "You pinged so I engaged", I have heard that more than once. Why do people even "listen" to pings (but actually misinterpret them), but not when you give them clear orders via chat? Ideally, pings would allow your allies to quickly spot enemy movements even if they weren't watching the minimap all the time. Doesn't work out like that in my games.
Thats because riot is too busy not making maps and observer mode to bother putting in multiple ping colors, red for attack, green for meet up.
|
On January 01 2011 06:14 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 06:01 Odds wrote:On January 01 2011 01:29 spinesheath wrote:
That often starts a flame war which generally leads to a loss Much less so i've found than actually trying to reason with them. Mindless pings they can follow but words? noooo I usually just get "stop pinging, faggot". Well, I guess this is derailing the thread... Then again in which thread do we discuss how to get your allies to do the right things?
doesn't matter if they say stop pinging, keep doing it whenever you want to issue an instruction. I ping a fucking ton.
|
I tend not to ping more than once unless my teammates are complete retards, which doesn't happen at 1800--oh...
|
On January 01 2011 06:01 Odds wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 01:29 spinesheath wrote:
That often starts a flame war which generally leads to a loss Much less so i've found than actually trying to reason with them. Mindless pings they can follow but words? noooo
dem BRs don't understand you bro =D.
in other news, my in game ping is really high when I'm on my home internet =[.
|
Thanks for the post! Almost nobody addresses this kind of thing in their writings, even top level players. Just so you know, I'm level 10-ish now. I have a few noob questions more experienced players might be able to help me with.
On December 31 2010 19:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So yeah, I think people are lacking in basic game sense and not having to explain this to someone who's like "DERRRR WE GOT BARON IMMA GO PUSH TOP HURRR WHILE U GUYS 4 MAN MID DURRRRRRR I NEED 400 FOR ZHONYAS DERRR" would be nice.
Sometimes when my team is sieging mid and pretty much nothing is happening, because the other team is all camping the mid turret and nobody dares to make the first move, but my team is ahead in farm/level/skill, I decide to push, say, top 2nd turret really hard if I am sure I can 100% guarantee the turret kill and get back real fast. Is this advisable?
What do you think of baron baiting, like 5 hiding in the baron bush to ambush the first guy who runs to check on us. (Assume baron unwarded/ward cleared)
If you are on the defensive, like for example your mid base turret is down, what is your plan to get back in the game? I know you pretty much have to gain some kind of advantage, like killing a good part of the enemy team or cheesing/stealing baron. What's step 1?
|
On January 01 2011 14:59 tissue wrote:Thanks for the post! Almost nobody addresses this kind of thing in their writings, even top level players. Just so you know, I'm level 10-ish now. I have a few noob questions more experienced players might be able to help me with. Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 19:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So yeah, I think people are lacking in basic game sense and not having to explain this to someone who's like "DERRRR WE GOT BARON IMMA GO PUSH TOP HURRR WHILE U GUYS 4 MAN MID DURRRRRRR I NEED 400 FOR ZHONYAS DERRR" would be nice.
Sometimes when my team is sieging mid and pretty much nothing is happening, because the other team is all camping the mid turret and nobody dares to make the first move, but my team is ahead in farm/level/skill, I decide to push, say, top 2nd turret really hard if I am sure I can 100% guarantee the turret kill and get back real fast. Is this advisable?
Unless your team can handle the 4v5 (and it will happen, someone will initiate among those 9 people) then you are better off sticking with them or forcing them to retreat.
If you are shen/tf/pantheon and to a lesser extent rammus/yi/sivir then you can get back to the fight, but at what cost?
Better off leaving one person with a guaranteed escape (like ghost+olaf ult or kassadin with full mana guaranteed) to posture in mid and 4 people go take the tower you are salivating over.
|
Regarding the pinging, always write a key word immediately before or after pinging. Like "care" if mia, "go" if jungler, "all def" if tower (that one should be more obvious, but you can never be sure) etc. If people have no clue why you pinged, it will be mostly ignored. Some people are spam-pinging, as if everyone would be fucking mind-readers (when it could be a wild pick between "retreat", low health hero in "fog of war", get buff).
|
^^ good advice
Also, whenever I call mis, I ping my lane just to make sure people check chat.
|
I hate people who spam ping, I always feel like ignoring it because spamming pinging is just a childish way of getting attention. A few pings at most is enough, anything more is just being obnoxious.
|
On January 01 2011 14:59 tissue wrote:Thanks for the post! Almost nobody addresses this kind of thing in their writings, even top level players. Just so you know, I'm level 10-ish now. I have a few noob questions more experienced players might be able to help me with. Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 19:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So yeah, I think people are lacking in basic game sense and not having to explain this to someone who's like "DERRRR WE GOT BARON IMMA GO PUSH TOP HURRR WHILE U GUYS 4 MAN MID DURRRRRRR I NEED 400 FOR ZHONYAS DERRR" would be nice.
Sometimes when my team is sieging mid and pretty much nothing is happening, because the other team is all camping the mid turret and nobody dares to make the first move, but my team is ahead in farm/level/skill, I decide to push, say, top 2nd turret really hard if I am sure I can 100% guarantee the turret kill and get back real fast. Is this advisable? What do you think of baron baiting, like 5 hiding in the baron bush to ambush the first guy who runs to check on us. (Assume baron unwarded/ward cleared) If you are on the defensive, like for example your mid base turret is down, what is your plan to get back in the game? I know you pretty much have to gain some kind of advantage, like killing a good part of the enemy team or cheesing/stealing baron. What's step 1?
All of this stuff comes with experience. You'll learn to know when it's a good idea to go push (usually that just comes down to coordinating with your team) when there's the skirmish at mid towers thing going on. Like, at the lower levels, I think people have to lie about their intent because they don't want to be seen as greedy if they're playing a champ that needs the farm ("I'm gonna go 'save' top guys"), while at the higher level pretty much everyone on the team WANTS one particular person to go and do it ("corki go top and farm that"). It's part of the luxury of playing with good players, you don't have to act like you're saving a tower when you just want farm because people understand that you farming is actually the team winning, and you don't have to fight with someone for the farm. When I play with one of my IRL friends in particular he always runs singed and every time there's a good amount of farm anywhere he beelines towards it and is like "GONNA PROTECT TOWER" when you know he's just stealing all the farm from our carry.
Baiting as 5 usually works best when both you and your opponents know that you're gonna do it, ironically. Like, if the only important objective is baron at the moment and you have it warded but they don't, just disappear towards it and hide in the bush through a path that you KNOW they have to come through to get there. They know you're there but they have to check it anyway. It's also more effective against a team that can't reveal you in the brush somehow like Ezreal/Mundo can. The reason it's more effective when you both know that you're doing it is because instead of just killing one guy randomly if he happens to walk near your bush you're more or less forcing them to facecheck a bush against you. If you guys sit in their wraith grass for 2 minutes trying to catch whoever walks by and they decide to beeline baron or are just completely oblivious to you missing and keep pushing, well, you lost out on a lot of time and exp/farm.
If I'm behind I try to figure out why I'm behind. Have we been losing teamfights? Are we getting ganked? Is one of them really strong right now? Will one of us be strong in a bit? Who do we have to focus? Things like that. Sometimes there's nothing you can do to comeback from a game, even if you ace them repeatedly, because they kill most of your team as you do it, but usually my plan for winning a game is to have a clear-cut idea of how I'm going to win a teamfight at a certain objective and take that objective afterwards--i.e. "cho tries to silence vlad for as long as possible while we kill everyone else on their team" or "rammus needs to keep tristana cc'd for the whole fight while we focus ryze".
I'll write more on this later, for now good luck with the grind!
|
that first one is the one that bugs me the most.. and it always seems to get dumbasses killed. Good little rant.
|
Its pretty frikin simple people. When you play serious, if your are not a moron (a.k.a a little kid playing chess) you are easily a respectable 1500 elo player. Just by NOT being an idiot and following rules/ orders
|
Too bad one poor decision or a small bit of greed can quickly snowball into completely fucking yourself over.
|
On January 08 2011 03:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Too bad one poor decision or a small bit of greed can quickly snowball into completely fucking yourself over.
This is so untrue it's not even funny
|
I would argue that late in games (like after 40 minutes), it's very possible to lose a game in which you're well ahead through one mistake.
|
On January 08 2011 03:30 arnath wrote:
I would argue that late in games (like after 40 minutes), it's very possible to lose a game in which you're well ahead through one mistake.
Lategame this definitely is true. Someone important for holding towers gets picked off because he solo farmed a bit too far outside, enemy team dives, takes tower and rolls your nexus.
Although I would call this a major mistake. Lategame not getting picked off is SO important that you should spend most of your attention on this.
|
On January 08 2011 03:20 Yiruru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 03:06 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Too bad one poor decision or a small bit of greed can quickly snowball into completely fucking yourself over. This is so untrue it's not even funny
My last game vs CLG this happened. My team was up 4 dragons and 6 kills.. two players on my team got caught, so we had to fight in an awkward position (wasting a few ultimates) and it was nearly a double ace, only my team's kennen survived. Doesn't sound too bad.. however, their team had 3 support + tristana. My team had zilean and lots of burst. After that fight, it was a slow-winding road to defeat. That is just one example, I have had games lost because our oracle user got a little greedy and die.. putting him too far behind to buy another oracle, so we spent a ton of gold on keeping wards up.. Anyway, those are 5v5 premade games. Solo queue seems to be a battle of who can throw the game the hardest; to the winner goes the defeat ;D
|
Might as well chime in with my LoL rant :D
When taking the game serious, and trying your best to win.. the #1 best option is to treat the game like a twisted spy-hunter game where you must secretly kill monsters and towers around the map, without letting your opponents realize you are doing so, or putting them in a position where trying to stop you would be counterproductive. Essentially avoiding all serious combat until you are 100% certain your team will be victorious.
Now the game is claiming to be PvP, so people who play it expect PvP action to be rewarding.. I assume. It isn't. Well it is, but it is super risky. Just yesterday I was playing hotshot in a 5v5 ladder match, and he and his team's shaco jumped on mid. I came out of jungle.. and Rambo killed the Shaco.. getting double buff. I don't want to say the game was over at that moment, but it was certainly largely in my team's favor.
People want and expect to be able to kill/ outplay their opponents. With summoner spells, turrets hitting like trucks, junglers/ roamers hidden around the map, objectives littered all over the map worth 3-6x as much as a kill.. it just isn't worth it. Especially when killing players only nets you less and less gold, and makes your bounty go higher and higher. As soon as a team fight comes, if everyone on your team is 0-2.. and the enemy has 4 0-0 players and one 10-0 player. Guess how much gold exchanges? They have one player worth 40g more than your entire team..
Throw into account that the only champions to get high scores that early are champions that generally fade out if they fall behind, or the enemy catches up (Akali). Basically, in solo queue when people have a lead they want to get kills. It makes sense that getting more kills is a good thing. Finishing 20-2 sounds way better than 5-0. That isn't the case though. Getting kills for the sake of getting kills is a waste of time in LoL. Kills have to lead to something bigger, Tower, Dragon, Nashor, Buff steals, or even more kills that lead to more of these objectives taken.
|
On January 08 2011 04:51 L0CUST. wrote:
Might as well chime in with my LoL rant :D
When taking the game serious, and trying your best to win.. the #1 best option is to treat the game like a twisted spy-hunter game where you must secretly kill monsters and towers around the map, without letting your opponents realize you are doing so, or putting them in a position where trying to stop you would be counterproductive. Essentially avoiding all serious combat until you are 100% certain your team will be victorious.
Now the game is claiming to be PvP, so people who play it expect PvP action to be rewarding.. I assume. It isn't. Well it is, but it is super risky. Just yesterday I was playing hotshot in a 5v5 ladder match, and he and his team's shaco jumped on mid. I came out of jungle.. and Rambo killed the Shaco.. getting double buff. I don't want to say the game was over at that moment, but it was certainly largely in my team's favor.
People want and expect to be able to kill/ outplay their opponents. With summoner spells, turrets hitting like trucks, junglers/ roamers hidden around the map, objectives littered all over the map worth 3-6x as much as a kill.. it just isn't worth it. Especially when killing players only nets you less and less gold, and makes your bounty go higher and higher. As soon as a team fight comes, if everyone on your team is 0-2.. and the enemy has 4 0-0 players and one 10-0 player. Guess how much gold exchanges? They have one player worth 40g more than your entire team..
Throw into account that the only champions to get high scores that early are champions that generally fade out if they fall behind, or the enemy catches up (Akali). Basically, in solo queue when people have a lead they want to get kills. It makes sense that getting more kills is a good thing. Finishing 20-2 sounds way better than 5-0. That isn't the case though. Getting kills for the sake of getting kills is a waste of time in LoL. Kills have to lead to something bigger, Tower, Dragon, Nashor, Buff steals, or even more kills that lead to more of these objectives taken.
I agree completely. I cant tell you how many times I've been in a game where we aced the enemy team, and everyone on my team decided that going back to buy shiny new items with their gold was worth more than getting drag, towers, or stealing enemy buffs.
I hate so say it, but phreak really needs to do a how to play lol video just so that all of the sheep get some idea of how to play.
|
On January 08 2011 04:51 L0CUST. wrote:
Might as well chime in with my LoL rant :D
When taking the game serious, and trying your best to win.. the #1 best option is to treat the game like a twisted spy-hunter game where you must secretly kill monsters and towers around the map, without letting your opponents realize you are doing so, or putting them in a position where trying to stop you would be counterproductive. Essentially avoiding all serious combat until you are 100% certain your team will be victorious.
Now the game is claiming to be PvP, so people who play it expect PvP action to be rewarding.. I assume. It isn't. Well it is, but it is super risky. Just yesterday I was playing hotshot in a 5v5 ladder match, and he and his team's shaco jumped on mid. I came out of jungle.. and Rambo killed the Shaco.. getting double buff. I don't want to say the game was over at that moment, but it was certainly largely in my team's favor.
People want and expect to be able to kill/ outplay their opponents. With summoner spells, turrets hitting like trucks, junglers/ roamers hidden around the map, objectives littered all over the map worth 3-6x as much as a kill.. it just isn't worth it. Especially when killing players only nets you less and less gold, and makes your bounty go higher and higher. As soon as a team fight comes, if everyone on your team is 0-2.. and the enemy has 4 0-0 players and one 10-0 player. Guess how much gold exchanges? They have one player worth 40g more than your entire team..
Throw into account that the only champions to get high scores that early are champions that generally fade out if they fall behind, or the enemy catches up (Akali). Basically, in solo queue when people have a lead they want to get kills. It makes sense that getting more kills is a good thing. Finishing 20-2 sounds way better than 5-0. That isn't the case though. Getting kills for the sake of getting kills is a waste of time in LoL. Kills have to lead to something bigger, Tower, Dragon, Nashor, Buff steals, or even more kills that lead to more of these objectives taken.
Completely agree. I had the most ridiculous game that was a prime example of this a week or so ago in which my team was up something like 36-2 in team kills but we had only pushed 4 towers down. The fact that we were tank heavy and didn't have a hard carry meant that we were going to do worse the longer the game went on but I just couldn't get the team to push and end it. We ended up losing with the final team kills being like 40-60something at like 57 minutes. It was one of the most frustrating games I've had.
|
On January 08 2011 05:00 Two_DoWn wrote:
I hate so say it, but phreak really needs to do a how to play lol video just so that all of the sheep get some idea of how to play.
I'd rather RIOT shift the game to make PvP the core aspect of game play rather than stealthy PvE.
There are so many reasons why making a "this is how you play LoL" video would be a bad idea, or really any game making a "players guide".. beyond a basic tutorial. People like figuring stuff out, and exploring the design space. Also stating that attempting to kill enemy players is generally a poor idea.. would not be a wise decision for RIOT xD
|
|
|
On January 08 2011 05:24 L0CUST. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 05:00 Two_DoWn wrote:
I hate so say it, but phreak really needs to do a how to play lol video just so that all of the sheep get some idea of how to play. I'd rather RIOT shift the game to make PvP the core aspect of game play rather than stealthy PvE. There are so many reasons why making a "this is how you play LoL" video would be a bad idea, or really any game making a "players guide".. beyond a basic tutorial. People like figuring stuff out, and exploring the design space. Also stating that attempting to kill enemy players is generally a poor idea.. would not be a wise decision for RIOT xD
I really think having PvE objectives in this game is what makes it so unique and exciting. Riot always said they want to tone down the amount of power capturing these objectives bring.
|
Getting caught late game is huge of course, but that's not exactly a snowball and fucking yourself over. (Unless you get caught repeatedly like 90% of LoL players)
Two guys getting caught isn't one mistake =[ A Oracled player thats tries to be aggressive is beyond "a little bit of greed" too imo.
Anyhow I was more of talking about players that lose their lane, either through deaths or lack of farm and somehow blaming that on their hugely negative score when they don't adapt their play afterward.
|
On January 08 2011 06:06 Yiruru wrote:
Getting caught late game is huge of course, but that's not exactly a snowball and fucking yourself over.
Winning with a fairly large lead then one mistake snowballs the game in the other direction. I guess its not what it used to be.. 3 kills + dragon at level 1 sort of snowballing with everyone buying catalyst ;D but to me it is still a snowball. This "late-game" snowball generally has to do with the silly bounty system RIOT implemented to "ease the pain of having feeders on your team."
Were you around in beta when they changed the bounty system a bit? 10-0 used be be 1400 and the % reduction was 30% on death without a minimum cap. RIOT and their crazy "anti-feeding" bounty system. 50g per kill was no fun xD
On January 08 2011 06:06 Yiruru wrote:
Anyhow I was more of talking about players that lose their lane, either through deaths or lack of farm and somehow blaming that on their hugely negative score when they don't adapt their play afterward.
I haven't played solo queue in 3 weeks, so I haven't really thought about this xD heh..
|
On January 08 2011 00:46 Kingske wrote:
Its pretty frikin simple people. When you play serious, if your are not a moron (a.k.a a little kid playing chess) you are easily a respectable 1500 elo player. Just by NOT being an idiot and following rules/ orders
unfortunately getting to 1500 is pretty hard as teh 1200-1300s are fucking infested with leavers/afkers/feeders.
|
On January 08 2011 07:17 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:46 Kingske wrote:
Its pretty frikin simple people. When you play serious, if your are not a moron (a.k.a a little kid playing chess) you are easily a respectable 1500 elo player. Just by NOT being an idiot and following rules/ orders unfortunately getting to 1500 is pretty hard as teh 1200-1300s are fucking infested with leavers/afkers/feeders.
Unfortunately, you're going to regularly find retards who singlehandedly sink teams through the 1400s. You'll even see it in the 1500s. The only thing that you can really control is how you play. The thing to keep in mind is that, all things being equal, the opposing team is just as likely to have a retarded player as your team is. If you take care of business and play well -- in other words, you're not "the retard" in your games -- you should still win most of your games until you arrive at an appropriate ELO for how well you're playing.
|
|
|
On January 08 2011 04:51 L0CUST. wrote:Getting kills for the sake of getting kills is a waste of time in LoL. Kills have to lead to something bigger, Tower, Dragon, Nashor, Buff steals, or even more kills that lead to more of these objectives taken.
Definitely agree, it seems far too many people confuse the objective of the game with "Kill as many people as you can" instead of "Kill the enemies nexus".
Although hey, maybe some people play just to kill other people and don't give two fucks about actually completing team objective... but they are fucking annoying to have on a team in ranked.
|
I generally have the people who will die to do a few hundred damage to a tower, and then because it's 4v5 the enemy gets baron, dragon, or 1-2 towers, sometimes even an inhib because of it. -_-
Yes, the point is to push towers and kill the enemy nexus, but you can't do stupid shit like that. You need to be intelligent about how you push towers.
|
On January 08 2011 07:17 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:46 Kingske wrote:
Its pretty frikin simple people. When you play serious, if your are not a moron (a.k.a a little kid playing chess) you are easily a respectable 1500 elo player. Just by NOT being an idiot and following rules/ orders unfortunately getting to 1500 is pretty hard as teh 1200-1300s are fucking infested with leavers/afkers/feeders.
No it's not. Carry them and they won't leave.
|
This thread needs a sticky
|
Man, when you started talking about little kids and mating patterns I was really curious where you were going...
|
Thanks to this post i am now a 1500 solo queue player.
THANKS 5HITCOMBO<3
|
On December 31 2010 19:02 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So yeah, I think people are lacking in basic game sense and not having to explain this to someone who's like "DERRRR WE GOT BARON IMMA GO PUSH TOP HURRR WHILE U GUYS 4 MAN MID DURRRRRRR I NEED 400 FOR ZHONYAS DERRR" would be nice.
Hi5!
More people need to read this sentence IMO IMO IMO.
|
I am guilty as charged.
*weeps in a corner*
|
I feel like I have just been reamed a new one.
Hi5 and off to be less bad!
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
