EPTGeneral Discussion/Off-topic - Page 72
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
edit:10x for the answers. Cool new knowledge even, if I'll be unable to put it to use any time soon. :D | ||
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Lunek
Poland164 Posts
On November 30 2010 06:51 sashkata wrote: So I see these extreme examples of denying exp in a 2v1 lane and let me ask a question. Are you exaggerating or are you not even last hitting? Even if you last hit perfectly the lane is still going to be pushed and there is no way you would be able to deny as much exp as you are talking about. The only way I could see your examples working is if you are not hitting the creeps at all, but I've never seen/hear of such a thing. Is this what you mean by denying, cause usually when we zone someone out we still last hit and at the end the enemy champ doesn't lose that much exp. Last 2v1 i remember was Phrost iirc on irelia, and me on janna. We were in 2nd bush 24/7. Worst thing possible you can do is push in this lane, what zilean made at beggining. After fb, and some laning he was lvl 5 when we were both lvls 7-8. Every step forward he made at start costed him 1/4 hp or more. In situations like this, you are praying for jungler's gank, if it doesnt come asap, you are done. He ended with 0/8/1, after 25min game, and very few cs. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 30 2010 06:51 sashkata wrote: So I see these extreme examples of denying exp in a 2v1 lane and let me ask a question. Are you exaggerating or are you not even last hitting? Even if you last hit perfectly the lane is still going to be pushed and there is no way you would be able to deny as much exp as you are talking about. The only way I could see your examples working is if you are not hitting the creeps at all, but I've never seen/hear of such a thing. Is this what you mean by denying, cause usually when we zone someone out we still last hit and at the end the enemy champ doesn't lose that much exp. The point is that you don't last hit, and the reason you don't see it is because people are bad at this game and don't play 2v1's properly (largely because they almost never arise in a serious context). This is also why GP/x is the ideal 2v1 lane, because Raise Morale lets you last hit while still keeping the lane from pushing. Different topic: What do people think about cutting 1 point from the Intelligence mastery and putting it into Greed? IMO the main use of CDR runes/masteries is so that you cap yourself when you have items/blue buff/blue elixir (since low values of CDR are not worth that much). 9/0/21 gives you 9% CDR and since blue buff gives you 23% and blue elixir gives you 10%, it seems like you could cut 2% CDR without much loss. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:01 Lunek wrote: Last 2v1 i remember was Phrost iirc on irelia, and me on janna. We were in 2nd bush 24/7. Worst thing possible you can do is push in this lane, what zilean made at beggining. After fb, and some laning he was lvl 5 when we were both lvls 7-8. Every step forward he made at start costed him 1/4 hp or more. In situations like this, you are praying for jungler's gank, if it doesnt come asap, you are done. He ended with 0/8/1, after 25min game, and very few cs. zilean in 1v2 lane, lol'd | ||
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Rising_Phoenix
United States370 Posts
Anyways, it makes me wonder what other games have hidden subforums around... I'm thinking of being active in the game eventually again. Sometimes the gameplay feels to repetative and it is hard to get a group, but I might just suck or something. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Yeah, having a hero that automatically pushes when he does anything vs a duo trying to zone him might be a bad choice. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
But then I'm low elo, what do I know. Also omg I'm a zergling after like a year posting here. Wow I feel special. | ||
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Darkchylde
United States473 Posts
On November 30 2010 06:51 sashkata wrote: So I see these extreme examples of denying exp in a 2v1 lane and let me ask a question. Are you exaggerating or are you not even last hitting? Even if you last hit perfectly the lane is still going to be pushed and there is no way you would be able to deny as much exp as you are talking about. The only way I could see your examples working is if you are not hitting the creeps at all, but I've never seen/hear of such a thing. Is this what you mean by denying, cause usually when we zone someone out we still last hit and at the end the enemy champ doesn't lose that much exp. edit:10x for the answers. Cool new knowledge even, if I'll be unable to put it to use any time soon. :D You definitely need a competent lane partner and the right champs to XP deny a 2v1. Once with Sona / Kass we kept Morde at level 3 with 1 CS while we were 6, granted we didn't have much CS but Morde was just dead weight the entire game. But on the flipside, tried to 2v1 against Morde with MF + Garen, and just couldn't quite keep the minions from pushing and slowly took too much minion dmg from harrassing / incoming waves so we couldn't deny as much as we wanted. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:02 TheYango wrote: The point is that you don't last hit, and the reason you don't see it is because people are bad at this game and don't play 2v1's properly (largely because they almost never arise in a serious context). This is also why GP/x is the ideal 2v1 lane, because Raise Morale lets you last hit while still keeping the lane from pushing. Different topic: What do people think about cutting 1 point from the Intelligence mastery and putting it into Greed? IMO the main use of CDR runes/masteries is so that you cap yourself when you have items/blue buff/blue elixir (since low values of CDR are not worth that much). 9/0/21 gives you 9% CDR and since blue buff gives you 23% and blue elixir gives you 10%, it seems like you could cut 2% CDR without much loss. Blue buff's CDR isn't fixed, it goes up by 0.5% per level. I believe the base value is 16% (not including 0.5% from level 1), so at level 18 you should have 25% CDR from blue buff. Regarding Greed, unless I'm on a manaless hero I'd rather just go 0/7/23 for SoS and drop CDR that way. In general I don't like counting on having a blue buff for CDR if my champion really needs it, since you'll never have it 100% of the time unless you never die and never let the enemy have theirs. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:31 Darkchylde wrote: You definitely need a competent lane partner and the right champs to XP deny a 2v1. Once with Sona / Kass we kept Morde at level 3 with 1 CS while we were 6, granted we didn't have much CS but Morde was just dead weight the entire game. But on the flipside, tried to 2v1 against Morde with MF + Garen, and just couldn't quite keep the minions from pushing and slowly took too much minion dmg from harrassing / incoming waves so we couldn't deny as much as we wanted. Yeah, I think autoattackers are just bad 2v1 without GP. If you autoattack them and they get creep support you end up pushing because you tanked for your creeps. Bad. Skillshots/melee range is also bad, since creeps get in the way and you want to harass them if they even think of poking their head out. So if you don't run GP/x then I imagine characters with strong single target Qs like Malph, Kass, or Panth would be best. Stuns are also a plus but not really necessary. | ||
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Lunek
Poland164 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:31 Darkchylde wrote: You definitely need a competent lane partner and the right champs to XP deny a 2v1. This. Support (sona/janna/taric, or even soraka) + champion with charge/good CC/ranged dps + aggressive playstyle= byebye exp I wonder how support + gp on 2v1 lane would work, lvl 6 vs lvl 11? | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
and ideally your zoners are champs that don't need a ton of farm themselves... janna for example is amazing at this | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On November 30 2010 07:30 phyvo wrote: Carrying teleport up top just so that you can 4v4 at dragon just strikes me as a bad idea. It seems better to me to give up dragon if necessary and commit to making one of their players useless rather than *possibly* win dragon once (which you'd be at a disadvantage for, with only 3 farmed bodies 1 solo body to their 4 farmed bodies 2 solo bodies) only to give their top man a foothold to stand on. I mean, what does one dragon matter if it lets you turn the greater game into some kind of 5v4? But then I'm low elo, what do I know. L0cust's team carried Teleport on their top solo (Annie) to force 5v3/5v4 at dragon, and it gave them tremendous map control. They also had Shen bottom for reverse mobility, and two tanks bot (Shen/Grag) that could wall-jump. Losing the initial dragon to a level 3/4 Jatt's Udyr caused him to snowball so wildly out of control that he was level 13 when the two mid solos were level 12. You decide for yourself. | ||
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myopia
United States2928 Posts
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 30 2010 08:30 myopia wrote: Teleport is an awesome summoner spell. Every complete team should have 1-2 imoimo. seriously this. except for the champs i absolutely need ghost/flash on (galio and annie mostly) i take ghost/tele on everyone. it lets you be uber aggressive in lane (trading hits is no problem, if they get the upper hand you just jump in the bush, b home, tele back and start all over), disrupt ganks in other lanes, and farm huge waves across the map or push lanes after teamfights. such a good skill, not to mention all its utility involving wards/mushrooms/jitbs in enemy jungle | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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