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On January 19 2011 12:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 11:59 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
wat
r u seriously saying that you know heimer better than saintvicious Last I remember, Dan Dinh's skill order is WQWQW (situationally getting E against certain lanes, but very often not) into W>Q>E>R, though post-patch that could be WQWEW if the 2nd rank of turret isn't worth it. I understand that Saintvicious is a very good Heimerdinger, but from what I gather, Saintvicious, Dan Dinh, and Asier all play very different styles of Heimerdinger (a discussion from a bunch of pages ago notes that their builds are very different, with Rabadon's and AA Staff being the only common items, and even then, they're gotten in very different orders), and I haven't seen any conclusive discussion that Saint's style of play is inherently better than Dan's or Asier's. As an aside, someone needs to explain to me what you gain/lose for skilling Q at level 1 instead of W. Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 12:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
i mean doesnt it give him a second nuke that stuns and blinds That second nuke happens to be very unreliable in most 1v1 lane situations. It acts as gank defense, and helps if your jungler ganks into the lane, but otherwise shouldn't be hugely relevant.
it's sweet in teamfights. take a level in E, there are plenty of situations where you will land the stun and it's pretty ridiculous when you do
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United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2011 12:41 UniversalSnip wrote:
it's sweet in teamfights. take a level in E, there are plenty of situations where you will land the stun and it's pretty ridiculous when you do
Well the discussion was about skilling E at level 3 vs level 4, and I'm not sure how relevant teamfights are to that specific instance.
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On January 19 2011 12:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 12:41 UniversalSnip wrote:
it's sweet in teamfights. take a level in E, there are plenty of situations where you will land the stun and it's pretty ridiculous when you do Well the discussion was about skilling E at level 3 vs level 4, and I'm not sure how relevant teamfights are to that specific instance.
oh, yeah, take it at three in case of early shaco gank or just something weird generally.
I mean let's be honest nothing happens with heimer early, might as well take the safe skill.
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On January 19 2011 12:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 12:25 Ecael wrote:
Q will deter them from trying to trade hits with you, W poses absolutely no threat at all. Simply in terms of dps, Q>>>>>>>W. You really can't poke people with W hard enough till rank 2 and 3. Yeah, ok that makes sense. Though for the record, Q was worth nothing with regard to trades pre-patch because there was no guarantee that your turrets would do anything about the guy hitting you. Low damage W > Q that bugs out or just attacks minions while you trade hits.
It still means you will be clearing the minions faster and hopefully be able get more creep aggro on your side. Rank 1 W as a harass is really just kind of pitiful in terms of damage.
As for level 3, I prefer W for sure since rocket feels slightly more useful then, but I guess E or W at that level is really the same, might as well as be able to blind randomly.
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Taking Q at 1 lets you drop a turret pre-minions, which gives you time to regen mana. This can matter.
Taking W at levels two and three gives you a skill that does real harass at level 3. The chance you'll be ganked between levels 3 and 4, and that E's blind/stun will save you, is extremely low. There's an argument for it, if you're ultra-conservative, but it doesn't seem like the high-percentage play to me.
As to whether I'm "better than SaintVicious" -- no. I'm something like 600 ELO worse than him. On the other hand, the incredible game sense, excellent judgement, fantastic last-hitting, and other skills he must possess to have gotten to his ELO don't actually mean his Heimerdinger skill order is optimal. By analogy: if you've ever played chess with an untrained prodigy, it can be extremely frustrating -- they play ridiculous, stupid openings, but can see so far ahead that they can gradually turn the game around against a well-rounded, but not super-gifted player. That doesn't mean, however, that they're a great source of opening advice.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2011 12:59 Ecael wrote:
As for level 3, I prefer W for sure since rocket feels slightly more useful then, but I guess E or W at that level is really the same, might as well as be able to blind randomly.
Part of why I think it's situational is that how likely you are to land those blinds/stuns depends on the dynamics of the lane opponent in question.
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On January 19 2011 13:03 oberon wrote:
Taking Q at 1 lets you drop a turret pre-minions, which gives you time to regen mana. This can matter.
Taking W at levels two and three gives you a skill that does real harass at level 3. The chance you'll be ganked between levels 3 and 4, and that E's blind/stun will save you, is extremely low. There's an argument for it, if you're ultra-conservative, but it doesn't seem like the high-percentage play to me.
yeah good luck with that wicked level 3 harass.
does nothing, just cover your weaknesses and pick grenades, at least when your jungler gets ganked or something you'll have a stun... there are just so many more situations where it would help than level 2 missiles at 3. the reason we're even debating it is because the differences are small, it's not like you can make an argument for the overwhelming power of missiles at 3 compared to the utility of a point in nades
As to whether I'm "better than SaintVicious" -- no. I'm something like 600 ELO worse than him. On the other hand, the incredible game sense, excellent judgement, fantastic last-hitting, and other skills he must possess to have gotten to his ELO don't actually mean his Heimerdinger skill order is optimal. By analogy: if you've ever played chess with an untrained prodigy, it can be extremely frustrating -- they play ridiculous, stupid openings, but can see so far ahead that they can gradually turn the game around against a well-rounded, but not super-gifted player. That doesn't mean, however, that they're a great source of opening advice.
meh we all understood that post sucked, not sure why you would bother writing a wall of text defending against it
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On January 19 2011 13:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 12:59 Ecael wrote:
As for level 3, I prefer W for sure since rocket feels slightly more useful then, but I guess E or W at that level is really the same, might as well as be able to blind randomly. Part of why I think it's situational is that how likely you are to land those blinds/stuns depends on the dynamics of the lane opponent in question.
Well, from how I see it, E is a purely defensive mechanism. It is much easier to hit E when they are trying to hit you as opposed to you trying to actively harass with the grenade. Most of what you'll be doing before rank 3+ W would be to use your single turret to the best of your advantage anyway. You are still stuck doing nothing before level 5 in that case, so an earlier E won't hurt.
I think it is a style thing though, you can definitely leave the turret farther back and use a rank2 W at lvl3 to start harassing more. Can't really say whether one will be significantly more effective than the other.
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Saintvicious?
It's all about fucking Aiser.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2011 13:17 HazMat wrote:
Saintvicious?
It's all about fucking Aiser.
ubad. saint's heimer is wtf.
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On January 19 2011 13:19 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 13:17 HazMat wrote:
Saintvicious?
It's all about fucking Aiser. ubad. saint's heimer is wtf.
Is this another one of your "this player is super pr0 and I love him." phases.
Salce #1.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2011 13:20 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2011 13:19 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2011 13:17 HazMat wrote:
Saintvicious?
It's all about fucking Aiser. ubad. saint's heimer is wtf. Is this another one of your "this player is super pr0 and I love him." phases. Salce #1.
yes, of course.
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I'm getting Amumu from the servers... they were up a couple hours ago? Have any of you guys got this, or is it just me?
Ok... just Konami coded in... and I guess they are doing maintenance.
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speaking as some1 that plays with both saint and asier on a regular basis i can tell u that Asier is probably the better heimer,BUT saintvicious is a more well rounded player and has very good mapawareness and rarely makes dumb moves so in the end,in terms of actual performance with heimer i would say saint edges asier out
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Oh ya server is down for maintenance. You can log in via the code but you can't queue up for a game.
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5hit clearly a humble person thats easy to get along with
also happy birthday you build stealer
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Happy birthday Shake! :D
I actually don't mind 5hit raging... as long as it helps me learn the game and it's legitimate. And it mostly is.
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lirl new nasus gets strong soooooo fast
usually pre-buff i would shoot for a 500 damage SS by 25 minute, which meant about 130 creep kills with my Q, very easily done in top lane, a bit harder in bot lane but not impossible. now with the same amount of kills i'm doing something like 630 damage by 25 minutes, and about 800 if i get an early sheen (which i don't usually but i might start doing more often now)
last game i was pushing top solo (Q hitting the tier 1 tower for like 350 damage rofl) when ashe and anivia both TP'd to stop me. tanking the tower i withered ashe, popped my ult, 2-shotted her, egg'd anivia, killed the tower, then *almost* killed anivia too before she flashed away. if wither had 2 second shorter cooldown i feel like nasus would be the most OP champ in the game right now. he's fucking unstoppable now, grab your free ranked wins before they nerf him again kids.
by the 40 minute mark (only reason the game didn't end at 25 minutes was because we had an afk) i was hitting turrets for 500, inhibs for 750, and nexus for 950 rofl.
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EPT
