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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
His escape seems pretty noob as well, as soon as he is about to die he cloaks and gains movement speed? Talk about high reward low risk engage/escape mechanics. He's not broken like Ming or Leoric were on release but he's definitely a bit above the point of balance. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
Samuro gets a freebie - free stealth that is unbreakable (and a self cleanse), movement speed that can be used to chase or escape, and on a very low cooldown (especially after 20). Imagine if Zeratul could go into stealth during a Shadow Assault, or if Nova could remain stealthed while Triple Tapping? Both of those have a tradeoff Samuro doesn't. Yes, usual cloak counters apply, and blind/block is effective. But the uptime on his stealth needs to be reduced, as does the self cleanse and movement speed. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Autoattack->spell->Spell. Whereas samuro cant do that, he only have autoattack + his illusions, ive seen him in far to many games where he just cant do much in fights and if we think about it further, there are quite alot of heroes that work great vs his illusions. They designed this hero with this in mind i think, i mean, he works a bit different compared to other melee assassins WHICH IS GOOD. He can run around in combat and do his tricks, i dont really see what is wrong about it. EDIT: although, samuro can crit immediately, yeah i dont know just some thought. On top of something else, samuro makes me wanna play warcraft4. Its such a cool concept with heroes imo in RTS game. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On October 22 2016 12:43 Beelzebub1 wrote: He doesn't really seem all that bad until his ult comes into play, Blade Storm rips apart squishies and tanks alike, couple it with some hard CC like Ring of Frost or Mosh and your entire team will be incinerated wombo combo style His escape seems pretty noob as well, as soon as he is about to die he cloaks and gains movement speed? Talk about high reward low risk engage/escape mechanics. He's not broken like Ming or Leoric were on release but he's definitely a bit above the point of balance. Thankfully Zarya is more balanced now so we can use 1 of our 2 ban slots on him. the Leoric and Li Ming days (and all of the others for that matter) were especially bad because we couldn't ban them at all. Ban meta is all Samuro and Malfurion right now. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On October 22 2016 20:08 Foxxan wrote: Idk if he needs a nerf in his uptime on stealth since if we compare them to zeratul and nova just like you did, they can do some daamge immediately. Autoattack->spell->Spell. Whereas samuro cant do that, he only have autoattack + his illusions, ive seen him in far to many games where he just cant do much in fights and if we think about it further, there are quite alot of heroes that work great vs his illusions. They designed this hero with this in mind i think, i mean, he works a bit different compared to other melee assassins WHICH IS GOOD. He can run around in combat and do his tricks, i dont really see what is wrong about it. EDIT: although, samuro can crit immediately, yeah i dont know just some thought. On top of something else, samuro makes me wanna play warcraft4. Its such a cool concept with heroes imo in RTS game. But the difference is if you hit Zera/Nova while they are stealthed you break their stealth and, short of Zeratul having blink (a very long cooldown) up, you can kill them. Samuro (especially post 20) can go in, disrupt, kill, chase, and get away without much difficulty. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Those aside i still found it pretty cool that a hero can actually move around in combat, atleast in theory. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
I wish heroes had more decent players, so they could release heroes that are niche but really good at their niche. But it takes to much drafting coordination I guess. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On October 24 2016 03:04 Foxxan wrote: I still dont see any argument why its necessarily wrong about it. Ye i get it, in general this is how hots heroes work but as i said cool with a few if just a very tiny amount of heroes can work a bit different. Right now, detection counters his stealth and also visiblity talent picks such as tracers lvl 1. So this hero gets a new strength not seen in any other hero and also a new "weakness". Zeratul and nova has the same weakness but they dont relie on stealth as much as samuro. Those aside i still found it pretty cool that a hero can actually move around in combat, atleast in theory. I don't really have a problem with his being able to walk 'through' people. That's kinda cool. The self cleanse and unbreakable stealth is too much. His 65%+ winrate demonstrates that. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On October 24 2016 03:34 FeyFey wrote: Ban person slept, we decided to hard counter Samuro with the first pick. Enemy picked him anyway. Damn was that game done fast lol. I wish heroes had more decent players, so they could release heroes that are niche but really good at their niche. But it takes to much drafting coordination I guess. It also makes Quick Match an even bigger cluster fuck since the automated matchmaker doesn't give two shits about countering niche heroes. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
On October 24 2016 03:34 FeyFey wrote: Ban person slept, we decided to hard counter Samuro with the first pick. Enemy picked him anyway. Damn was that game done fast lol. I wish heroes had more decent players, so they could release heroes that are niche but really good at their niche. But it takes to much drafting coordination I guess. What is the hardcounter to samuro? | ||
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Leolio
France633 Posts
1st ban. * Second best hard counter luck: if the guy who picked Samuro is a noob, you can win this. (had this 10 death feeding Samuro in HL on my team, fun times) * Average counters Johanna because she's an anti-auto attack machine, stun and blind with CD reduction possible Lili, Auriel for blinds but it's kinda meh. Artanis, for blind ulti but you waste 1 ultimate versus a guy who'll disengage safely and come back 10 seconds later. And reveal heroes. Kharazim and Tassadar being by far the most powerful. I guess KT makes the green guy go boom, but he'll probably kill him 1v1 each time. | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
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Swisslink
2952 Posts
I just don't see a way to protect the backline against Samuro, because there is almost no risk involved for Samuro to dive. Therefore he dives -> Kills 1-2 heroes -> disengages and the rest of the team kills the remaining 3-4 heroes (and of course he can join the fight again shortly after). | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Usually i dont really care to ban him. Johanna because she's an anti-auto attack machine, stun and blind with CD reduction possible Lili, Auriel for blinds but it's kinda meh. Artanis, for blind ulti but you waste 1 ultimate versus a guy who'll disengage safely and come back 10 seconds later. Samuro can self-cleanse these blinds with his Q. Blind isnt the way to go vs him. Its rather bad imo. Go stun, Crowdcontrol. He cant do shit against crowd control as many other heroes. He is super weak. He has good escape but he has no Crowdcontrol, he brings like no utility to the team. Johanna bad hero vs him. Go muradin, etc. My main is kerrigan and i found her good vs him. Sometimes when he uses Q i use combo and hit all 3. I just don't see a way to protect the backline against Samuro, because there is almost no risk involved for Samuro to dive. Therefore he dives -> Kills 1-2 heroes -> disengages and the rest of the team kills the remaining 3-4 heroes (and of course he can join the fight again shortly after). Killing 1-2 heroes at what level? Cuz in masters i have never seen this happen. In fact, i have a hard time seeing him solo any hero as well since that hero will run and even with his extra movementspeed when attacking he cant really fully 100% him down before he is gone. illidan is the best hero for this. Samuro even with his trait, not so much. In theory it should work right, thats what i thought aswell but in practice it dont. | ||
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Subflow
52 Posts
-His escape mechanism ( already said) -The tankyness of his illusions (especially with the level 20 Talent) + With the second Ultimate he can control his illusions, making them MUCH stronger. U can use them as Wards, or just to distract the enemy team, wasting their cooldowns, their time, without taking ANY risks. +dont underestimate his Juke potential his Ultimate cooldown is really low. i Think its something like 10 seconds for swapping with his illusions | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
Right now he can dive so many targets almost risk free, making him massive at constantly securing kills. Otherwise his Q needs to be more detectable in what his images are and what the real one is. | ||
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ChaosOS
United States68 Posts
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