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United States4883 Posts
On November 02 2015 02:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I want to love Artanis so much, but the fact that he never gets an escape metaphorically kills me (and literally kills him) x.x
What's the best way to accommodate this?
You have to learn how to pick your battles really carefully. I'm no expert on him, but I'm starting to get used to some of the ideas behind how to control him. Here are a few minor things I've learned:
- First of all, this build always:
Seasoned Marksman/Reactive Parry
Templar's Zeal***
Psionic Synergy***
Purifier Beam/Suppression Pulse
Triple Strike
Zealot Charge***
Target Purified/Orbital Bombardment
Templar's Zeal, Psionic Synergy, and Zealot Charge are all non-negotiable, really. The first two are vital in keeping your shields charged when you're low health, and Zealot Charge is absolutely necessary in order to be a threat (plus it gives you kind of a quasi-escape in some scenarios). You can potentially do something like Phase Bulwark -> Force of Will, but I find that having the Triple Strike recharges your shields quickly enough while also dealing extra damage. And the upgrades on both the ultimates are just really, really good.
- Never use Q for damage unless you know you're going to pick someone off. Q should be used tactically to dodge AoE spells or reset your shields (in conjunction with Psionic Synergy). There are a lot of interesting things you can do with Blade Dash, such as dodging out of an AoE spell like Gazlowe's wombo bomb or a deadly Jaina Blizzard as well as breaking the leash on Leoric's Drain Hope. In some cases, you can use it to dash to safety for a moment and allow your allies to secure a kill. There are a lot of uses, and I think it's going to take a while before everyone knows exactly how to use this properly.
- Auto -> Triple Strike -> Auto will reset your shields in the late game. This means that if you have a W available to you, you will survive a bit longer. Psionic Synergy drops the cooldown of Shield Overload by 4 seconds per hero hit (per swipe), so if you hit 2-3 heroes with both swipes, Shield Overload is reset. This means that in the late game, if you have a Q available to you, you will survive a bit longer. Ergo, if you alternate between using W and Q in fights correctly, you'll survive miraculously long because Shield Overload will constantly reset.
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Awesome, thanks John! 
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On November 01 2015 16:28 Larkin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 05:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On October 31 2015 04:45 KrytosSR wrote:
I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more The problem with StarCraft maps is that there are three races and only two sides, so you can't as easily go Heaven/Hell and Alliance/Horde. Unless Legacy of the Void goes the direction I don't want it to, of course. Testbug anyone?
I know there was an Aeon of Strife-type map in WarCraft 3 with three sides, but that would only lead to rage if two teams pushed on one at the same time.
On November 02 2015 02:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2015 05:36 Fanatic-Templar wrote:On October 31 2015 04:45 KrytosSR wrote:
I'm hoping for some starcraft themed maps. The siege mercs could be a squad of marines and the bruiser could be a bunch of zealots with charge and the boss could be a giant ultralisk. There are lots of options for them really, but I really liked the themed merc camps from the diablo maps and hope to see more The problem with StarCraft maps is that there are three races and only two sides, so you can't as easily go Heaven/Hell and Alliance/Horde. Unless Legacy of the Void goes the direction I don't want it to, of course. Well, a StarCraft map doesn't have to have all 3 races on a single map. Hell, they could have 3 different maps... one Zerg, one Terran, and one Protoss. Or 3 for the non-mirror match-ups: TvZ, ZvP, PvT. etc. etc. Or maybe they could have one race in each lane... 
Well, the thing with making different maps for each race is that it would require quite a bit of work for their terrainers, thus far they seem to like making two maps with the same overall tileset. I hadn't considered the possibility of having a different race for each lane though, that might be cool.
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Had some fun with Artanis prism abilities. They are quite useful if your team knows whats going to happen. Otherwise you will murder your team as much as your enemy.
I defnitely want a city under siege map though.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
Artanis is such a monster in a late game, it's like Nova or Zeratul on drugs. You just kill hero after hero and then go for forts. It'so like Sonya but more mobile. You feel like Black Mamba from Kill Bill or like Neo.
But first 16 levels you just die ;D
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Unless you face a Muradin who will just stun out your Q, slow you and dodge your W, while a Tank killer is hitting you xD. But Muradin is build to defeat anything that relies on autoattacks xD. Unless its overbuffed Raynor.
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On November 02 2015 10:23 Jenia6109 wrote:
Artanis is such a monster in a late game, it's like Nova or Zeratul on drugs. You just kill hero after hero and then go for forts. It'so like Sonya but more mobile. You feel like Black Mamba from Kill Bill or like Neo.
But first 16 levels you just die ;D
Reminds me of Kael'thas when he was first released 
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Yeah, Zealot Charge pretty much makes up the entire hero. Might as well not have anything else in the tier.
Been having fun with panda recently, although he balances between being a non-factor against a team with stunners, and borderline OP against a team with no stunners.
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I'm convinced an abnormally large percentage of Artanis's losses are due to bad team compositions. I see so many teams that force him into a solo tank position.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On November 02 2015 15:02 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced an abnormally large percentage of Artanis's losses are due to bad team compositions. I see so many teams that force him into a solo tank position.
I think it's because he's a half hero. You always want to be half killed to make your shields work. So people go damage themselves to get that 50% healths. Why not make shields be able to activate in 100% health?
It's like if Illidan could vampiric attack only if below 50% health or Kerrigan get shields only below 50% health.
Just make it 100% and you can nerf him somehow, maybe attack damage or Lazer (ultimate) damage.
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United States4883 Posts
On November 02 2015 18:12 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 15:02 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced an abnormally large percentage of Artanis's losses are due to bad team compositions. I see so many teams that force him into a solo tank position. I think it's because he's a half hero. You always want to be half killed to make your shields work. So people go damage themselves to get that 50% healths. Why not make shields be able to activate in 100% health? It's like if Illidan could vampiric attack only if below 50% health or Kerrigan get shields only below 50% health. Just make it 100% and you can nerf him somehow, maybe attack damage or Lazer (ultimate) damage.
^This, basically. I've described Artanis as basically a 2000-3000 health hero with shields before, like a "tankier Illidan". He's always at half health or below because the top half of his healthbar just doesn't count for anything significant :/.
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Nah, I don't like buffing his shields that way. They'd have to nerf the crap out of his damage, which would make Artanis a completely different hero.
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On November 02 2015 15:02 xDaunt wrote:
I'm convinced an abnormally large percentage of Artanis's losses are due to bad team compositions. I see so many teams that force him into a solo tank position.
Man I finally had an Artanis and Medic on my side in HL and both of them just seem to demand a certain comp so badly. We ended up getting trashed (I played like crap not really knowing how to fit into that team - I picked Valla before Medic was locked in, we ended up with no AA heroes so I tried AA build which is bad. In Hindsight I should have just picked Raynor, the other team was all burst and you guess how much Artanis, Medic and AA Valla like facing that).
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Playing Artanis in Hl is much like Nova, Abathur, *insert other hated hero*
Ppl don't understand that you are not a tank
Ppl don't understand that you have to play careful the first 10 levels
Ppl don't understand that the lazer can be a great! zoning tool, even if you just want to get rid of a tank for a few seconds to kill the backline.
Ppl don't understand how much fun Artanis can be ^-^
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I've been drafting Zagara a lot lately, but not Nazeebo despite owning him and being good with him. So, I'm trying to think of reasons why to play one over the other. They are somewhat similar characters:
* Both are very immobile
* Both have summons
* Both do a lot of damage in the aggregate, but not at a specific hero
* Both can push very hard. Maybe zagara can push slightly more?
The differences I could think of were something along the lines of:
* Zagara is more powerful in the early game, Nazeebo is more powerful in late game
* Zagara's maw sets up wombos, nazeebo's ravenous is a finisher to wombos
* Zagara gives vision and map control, but if she can't keep tumors down nazeebo might be better
* Nazeebo is better at ganking, since zombie wall is a trap
* Zagara has more self sustain, so maps where constant presence is important she might be better on.
What do you guys think?
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United States4883 Posts
On November 04 2015 02:02 MotherFox wrote:
I've been drafting Zagara a lot lately, but not Nazeebo despite owning him and being good with him. So, I'm trying to think of reasons why to play one over the other. They are somewhat similar characters:
* Both are very immobile
* Both have summons
* Both do a lot of damage in the aggregate, but not at a specific hero
* Both can push very hard. Maybe zagara can push slightly more?
The differences I could think of were something along the lines of:
* Zagara is more powerful in the early game, Nazeebo is more powerful in late game
* Zagara's maw sets up wombos, nazeebo's ravenous is a finisher to wombos
* Zagara gives vision and map control, but if she can't keep tumors down nazeebo might be better
* Nazeebo is better at ganking, since zombie wall is a trap
* Zagara has more self sustain, so maps where constant presence is important she might be better on.
What do you guys think?
Zagara is just flat out better.
More damage, more early power, more control in team fights via Maw, even more utility via creep tumors. Just a better hero right now, imo.
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I don't like Nazeebo, sure he probably does more hero damage than Zagara at the end of the game on the score screen, but all the damage he does is spread out and often tanks soak up spider damage which is pretty much equal to zero damage when laning. Zagara is a way better solo laner, and can push faster than Nazeebo since turrets will run out of ammo despite 1vs1 laning, while Nazeebo's spiders don't actually soak up any damage. Zagara has really good direct damage which is especially useful vs golems, garden terrors, immortals etc but also in team fights she can deal a lot of damage and zone out heroes with her hydralisks. With the Rapid Incubation talent she can stay in lanes forever and she also have the option to go for a creep build which is invaluable on a couple of maps. Also I don't agree that Nazeebo is more powerful in the late game, Zagara's Devouring Maw is imo better than anything Nazeebo has and makes her dangerous throughout the whole game.
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note that when properly played, nazeebo's zombies soak up lots of cannon shots in addition to doing damage to the turrents.
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Though looking a little more deeply at hotslogs stats, it seems nazeebos' high winrate is strongly propped up by lower leagues. At the bronze level he is #1, but he declines with each league level up, to the point where at platinum he is overtaken by zagara.
I wonder how much of that is the forgiving and unforgiving nature of his ults: forgiving because they are hard to "miss" meanwhile missed maws which are worthless, but they are unforgiving because if experienced enemies see you ravenous and have prepared, they can punish you for it.
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I think Zagara is harder to play than Nazeebo, you don't get that big hp pool to buffer you late game, you have to watch your mana more since you don't have passive regen like Nazeebo's trait.
Then like you said Maw is very binary compared to Nazeebo's ults (especially when Gargantuan was the pick).
Also, I think once you get used to it, it's a lot easier to avoid Nazeebo's damage (his toads especially), which really hurts his effectiveness against players who don't just stand there (don't high level Zagara's avoid Banelings too? easy to miss and roots you in place = dangerous choice).
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EPT
