|
On October 23 2015 20:11 Jenia6109 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 18:19 SC2John wrote:On October 23 2015 17:34 Jenia6109 wrote:
I played Artanis about 10 games and lost about 6 of them and he seems to be a little weak.
He is weak because:
- No abilities to retreat
- No self healing
What i see to make him stronger:
- Just buff health like they did with Morales (don't really like it)
- Make the Q ability so you can cancel it. It will be cool if you want to retreat or catch an enemy (maybe too imba)
- Make auto-shield activation start from 70-75% health not 50% because now you have no access to it until you half damaged and easy to be killed.
- Maybe some longer range to Phase Prism because i miss the target so much. Take Psionic Synergy at level 7 and it will solve a lot of your survival problems. It counts for both dashes on the Q and all enemy heroes, so if you hit 4 heroes in total with it, he automatically procs his shield every time he Qs. If you get some talents like Triple Strike, it lowers the cooldown on his shields even faster so that it's almost always up. At that point, Force of Will at 20 is pretty much unnecessary. In my experience, Artanis is really easy to get down to 50% and impossible to actually kill if he's spec'd correctly. EDIT: The biggest thing that everyone's noticing is that he starts out pretty slow, but by the time he gets to level 16 onwards, he's a monster. So that's also an issue for people who want to break people early and are dissatisfied with his early game. EDIT: Actually, it only takes 2 people to proc his shield with Q using Psionic Synergy. (2 x both dashes = 4 x 4 = 16 second CDR + one auto attack). I agree that Q needs to be a bit more interesting or at least have an unstoppable frame, but I think people are far from mastering it as it works already, so I'm hesitant to insist on changes to it yet. The animation on Phase Prism needs to be faster or higher ranged, I agree with you on that. Right now it's only useful in practically melee situations where switching places doesn't do much other than body block. I think Psionic Synergy is the answer with Nexus Blades on 20th level. Also i can predict that some talents will be switched or changed in some patch.
Templar's Zeal, Psionic Synergy, and Zealot Charge are core talents for Artanis that you should always take on him. I'd put Triple Strike there, too, but the spell shield can be really good against mage comps. At 20, I think either heroic upgrade is better than Nexus Blades. Artanis does a ton of damage already.
Honestly, I think that the only thing really holding Artanis back is his weak early game. He's comparatively awful before level 7 and pretty bad before level 10. With his heroic and triple strike, he suddenly becomes very good. With Zealot Charge at 16, he turns into a monster.
EDIT: I'm not yet willing to write off the possibility that Artanis may be secretly OP. Yes, his early game is bad, but once he gets Zealot Charge, you can do (and get away with) some truly ridiculous shit. There are times where I've just been in awe of the impact that I've had on particular fights with Artanis. As I have said before, I think that Artanis has a very high learning curve, so it will take a while for the community at large to figure him out. I've played 30+ games with him so far, but I am still not entirely comfortable with him, and I don't feel like I have a good sense for his tolerances yet (it's improving though). Also, Phase Prism is a beast of an ability. If you do nothing else but land good Phase Prisms, you can contribute heavily to your team's early game and mitigate your own individual weakness. I think it could be OP if Blizzard buffed it.
|
He's good post-16 but I can't really think of another warrior that is within that framework. Generally it feels like you need your warriors to be able to contribute from the get-go and Artanis simply isn't like that. Sure you can get by dragging a Murky or Raynor or something to the lategame but it feels really awkward to try and drag along a warrior. He feels really clunky and almost unfun to play until you get charge.
|
Mexico2170 Posts
A hero that's good only in the lategame, when most games have already been decided, is a bad hero, unless he was so imba as kaelthas that he could turn around the game by himself, but I don't think this is the case.
|
I don't know if I necessarily agree or disagree with that statement. I don't mind trying to limit the damage knowing eventually you'll get a hero that can wreck. It happens with Raynor. Once you get double Q and stun-on-Q and some Marksman stacks suddenly Raynor is beast where previously he was just a lane bully. I don't think all heroes need to be equally powerful from level 1 to level 20. Its just generally those heroes which scale better are usually assassins or specialists. I guess you could argue Muradin gets a fairly substantial power spike at 16 as well but he isn't completely incompetent before then.
|
On October 23 2015 10:33 MotherFox wrote:
the johanna was in my party and frequents these boards-- I'm sure he'll be happy to hear the praise
Always good to find out I have some idea of what I'm doing 
I remember being very torn about what to take at level 1 on that game. Knight Takes Pawn is really good on that map but Reinforce is strong vs their line up of AA. I think I took reinforce but thinking back I probably should have gone with Knight since we had such low wave clear. Was I right to take reinforce or is my second guess of knight the better option here?
|
I pretty much always take Knight Takes Pawn even after the nerfs. If it is really an AA comp just take Imposing at 16 when the real team fights start happening anyways.
|
I haven't played Nova in a while and good god the GP nerf really hit her hard. She still felt good from levels 1-16 or so but after that she just had no damage in the least. The only good thing that happened was I went 3Tap and someone tried to save his team mate but died after 2 shots and the final shot killed the initial target as well.
-edit-
I'm also going to try this build out for her tonight.
http://www.heroesnexus.com/talent-calculator/14-nova#jPeJDCiA3MqNTGOAA
The idea here is to basically just snipe as fast as possible to process the most possible follow through charges. I'm wondering if you may be able to get more actual burst with follow through procs instead of front loading your AA into Anti Armor.
|
Personally, block-like effects aren't that good against Illidan anyways since he attacks so fast with so low damage. But of course Illidan should be trying to avoid you and block is good against Raynor (who does like targetting tanks). So it's a little bit of a gamble against that comp and how they end up playing (also possible that Raynor just focuses down ETC too).
Tenks' advice is good as it gives you time to see how things are unfolding.
|
Yeah I don't care for ETC vs AA comps because he doesn't get a block talent (edit I'm bad he does get block but I think you'd either always take his Q or E) and he can't really take Imposing at 16 without giving up a ton. Johanna however can take it pretty freely.
|
What's up with bioshield on medic?
Level 4 talent:
If your target is at full Health, they gain a Shield that absorbs 20 (+7.5 per level) damage, stacking up to 5 times.
People take this all the time and I see it as such a trash talent. The bioshield is negated if:
* You change targets of your healing beam
* You are stunned
* Your target moves out of your range (I'm looking at you illidan)
Close to 100% of the time you are applying bioshield, you are getting no healing functionality out of your Q in that exact moment. 95% of game time bioshield does not do anything for you. The only thing I can think of that it reliably does well is negate damage from minion waves and mercs/bosses--- two things I am not really concerned about when it comes to healing up my team. Frankly I would prefer any of the other talents at this level on my medic, which is why I always go advanced block or upgraded ballistics.
What are people seeing in this skill that I'm not? I haven't done thorough replay analysis, but I'd bet dollars to donuts this skill rarely makes a difference in team fights.
|
I think most people go advanced block but bioshield can be fun if you're in a pushing lane because you can shield a creep and it will eat a ton of ammo. Its also good if you know someone will be eating some front loaded damage. But the issue is if a team is diving on someone they're diving on medic.
|
On October 24 2015 02:45 Tenks wrote:
I think most people go advanced block but bioshield can be fun if you're in a pushing lane because you can shield a creep and it will eat a ton of ammo. Its also good if you know someone will be eating some front loaded damage. But the issue is if a team is diving on someone they're diving on medic.
God, if the skill was "if the target of your healing is at full YOU get a shield for..." it would be so much better. That's what it should be, IMO.
Anyway, minirant trigger by both seeing this on lots of medics and seeing the quick build guide refer to it as a good alternate talent to advanced block Even though hotslogs reports the skill as popular, it is the lowest winrate of all the skills at this level. (Probably because it is very similar to not taking a skill at this level)
|
Yeah its one of those trap talents that sounds like it should be good but in practice isn't that good. The shield should persist for a few seconds after shifting off the target, IMO. If anything simply to address the issue of you get stunned and the shield dies.
|
It's also popular for another dumber reason: when you Q a full health target it costs no mana.
So people focus on the mana efficiency rather than the actual help-your-team-win-by-not-dying efficiency.
|
On October 24 2015 02:53 Wuster wrote:
It's also popular for another dumber reason: when you Q a full health target it costs no mana.
So people focus on the mana efficiency rather than the actual help-your-team-win-by-not-dying efficiency.
It turns out that simply not healing someone for a while, depending on their own regen rate also costs no mana. Topping someone to 100% hp out of combat is actually slightly mana inefficient.
|
Personally I like to buff my grenade talents on her. I like Trauma, Block, Clear, [Ult], Spell/Intensive, Second Opinion, Cad 2.0. I don't feel Couples buys you enough to survive that initial damage burst that you won't be able to heal up naturally with Caduceus anyways. With the double nades and clear you can buy yourself some space to retreat away and your trauma/block should be able to eat some of the front-loaded damage. At that point they should have spent most of their dive and got out of position enough with you retreating back to the back line to find someone getting hit and heal them to full via Intensive.
But I've only played her in QM so maybe the nade build is a noob trap as well
|
United States4883 Posts
On October 24 2015 02:43 MotherFox wrote:
What's up with bioshield on medic?
Level 4 talent:
If your target is at full Health, they gain a Shield that absorbs 20 (+7.5 per level) damage, stacking up to 5 times.
People take this all the time and I see it as such a trash talent. The bioshield is negated if:
* You change targets of your healing beam
* You are stunned
* Your target moves out of your range (I'm looking at you illidan)
Close to 100% of the time you are applying bioshield, you are getting no healing functionality out of your Q in that exact moment. 95% of game time bioshield does not do anything for you. The only thing I can think of that it reliably does well is negate damage from minion waves and mercs/bosses--- two things I am not really concerned about when it comes to healing up my team. Frankly I would prefer any of the other talents at this level on my medic, which is why I always go advanced block or upgraded ballistics.
What are people seeing in this skill that I'm not? I haven't done thorough replay analysis, but I'd bet dollars to donuts this skill rarely makes a difference in team fights.
Mixed with Couple's Therapy, it gives the Medic a shield too.
|
On October 24 2015 05:02 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 02:43 MotherFox wrote:
What's up with bioshield on medic?
Level 4 talent:
If your target is at full Health, they gain a Shield that absorbs 20 (+7.5 per level) damage, stacking up to 5 times.
People take this all the time and I see it as such a trash talent. The bioshield is negated if:
* You change targets of your healing beam
* You are stunned
* Your target moves out of your range (I'm looking at you illidan)
Close to 100% of the time you are applying bioshield, you are getting no healing functionality out of your Q in that exact moment. 95% of game time bioshield does not do anything for you. The only thing I can think of that it reliably does well is negate damage from minion waves and mercs/bosses--- two things I am not really concerned about when it comes to healing up my team. Frankly I would prefer any of the other talents at this level on my medic, which is why I always go advanced block or upgraded ballistics.
What are people seeing in this skill that I'm not? I haven't done thorough replay analysis, but I'd bet dollars to donuts this skill rarely makes a difference in team fights. Mixed with Couple's Therapy, it gives the Medic a shield too.
If you use q to switch targets does it negate the shield on the medic?
|
United States4883 Posts
On October 24 2015 05:12 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2015 05:02 SC2John wrote:On October 24 2015 02:43 MotherFox wrote:
What's up with bioshield on medic?
Level 4 talent:
If your target is at full Health, they gain a Shield that absorbs 20 (+7.5 per level) damage, stacking up to 5 times.
People take this all the time and I see it as such a trash talent. The bioshield is negated if:
* You change targets of your healing beam
* You are stunned
* Your target moves out of your range (I'm looking at you illidan)
Close to 100% of the time you are applying bioshield, you are getting no healing functionality out of your Q in that exact moment. 95% of game time bioshield does not do anything for you. The only thing I can think of that it reliably does well is negate damage from minion waves and mercs/bosses--- two things I am not really concerned about when it comes to healing up my team. Frankly I would prefer any of the other talents at this level on my medic, which is why I always go advanced block or upgraded ballistics.
What are people seeing in this skill that I'm not? I haven't done thorough replay analysis, but I'd bet dollars to donuts this skill rarely makes a difference in team fights. Mixed with Couple's Therapy, it gives the Medic a shield too. If you use q to switch targets does it negate the shield on the medic?
I'm pretty sure it stacks, so as long as you're 100% health and healing yourself, you should be gaining shield. I think.
I'm gonna go ahead and backpedal in the off chance that I'm wrong. I don't own medic and I haven't played her, but I've seen a lot of Medics with random shields, and that's the only explanation I can think of. I may have just been mistaken and there was a Tassadar on the teams or something though. Someone can test this to find out.
|
most good medics will get massive shields after level 20 thanks to the reactor v2 talent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
