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On October 22 2015 16:57 Leolio wrote:
It's not OK. I play HL at rank 5, people just can't grab a new hero, play 2 QM and rule HL. It just feels wrong. The guy's not balanced yet. Maybe our Muradin going for Haymaker into dive 1v4 didn't help. But still.
Don't know what the Muradin did, but Artanis couldn't really do anything when I was on Mura, just have to time your thunderclap when his shild is down ... but Haymaker says everything, though it could actually work against Artanis. I think Artanis is pretty weak, but has a lot of situations where he shines. He has a bit from Nova as he does better against uncoordinated teams.
But his weakness is CC.
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On October 22 2015 19:58 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 17:14 Wuster wrote:
Keep in mind Artanis is bugged in a way that's really easy for people to trigger - if you W when you're about to auto-attack someone then you'll hit a total of 1 + 4 times rather than the expected 1 + 2. The numbers are even bigger if you take Triple Strike. I think someone tallied over 2000 total damage at lvl 20, which is enough to one-shot squishy champions.
So people who don't even know about the bug are probably still triggering it a lot given what the activation conditions are. I haven't tried it yet, but did notice that he somehow has burst out of nowhere, I assumed it was just me not being familiar with his talents, but maybe not. From Reddit, the activation of W needs to be right after you auto-attack, but I am not sure if you need to have Zealot Charge talent or not(as they have said that it is bugged specifically with Zealot Charge) and you double your attacks, 6 attacks instead of 3(1 aa + 2 from twin blades) or 8 attacks instead of 4(1 aa + 3 from twin blades with triple strike).
After trying it in try mode, I realized how it was found so quickly: if you a-move someone and use your twin/triple strike directly after your auto attack lands, you can then move away for a few seconds and move in again for the burst of auto attacks. It's probably the way you are supposed to be approaching the character.
You do not need zealot charge.
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On October 22 2015 19:58 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 17:14 Wuster wrote:
Keep in mind Artanis is bugged in a way that's really easy for people to trigger - if you W when you're about to auto-attack someone then you'll hit a total of 1 + 4 times rather than the expected 1 + 2. The numbers are even bigger if you take Triple Strike. I think someone tallied over 2000 total damage at lvl 20, which is enough to one-shot squishy champions.
So people who don't even know about the bug are probably still triggering it a lot given what the activation conditions are. I haven't tried it yet, but did notice that he somehow has burst out of nowhere, I assumed it was just me not being familiar with his talents, but maybe not. From Reddit, the activation of W needs to be right after you auto-attack, but I am not sure if you need to have Zealot Charge talent or not(as they have said that it is bugged specifically with Zealot Charge) and you double your attacks, 6 attacks instead of 3(1 aa + 2 from twin blades) or 8 attacks instead of 4(1 aa + 3 from twin blades with triple strike).
The auto gets double too? Well that's just piling it on lol, I thought it was only the W's attacks that were doubled.
And since W can be used to instantly attack, that's what you want to aim for, hitting it right after your auto anyways.
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On October 22 2015 05:55 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:20 MotherFox wrote:
speaking of hero league--- I'm noticing E.T.C. having quite the resurgence. He's passed Johanna on hotslogs. ETC is quite alright, well positioned amongst the currently popular heroes I think. His attack speed boost works well with heroes like raynor and kharazim and a quick reliable stun is pretty good against stuff like sonya. Plus the globe talent + groupies is quite strong. Johanna just isn't that strong anymore either, warriors in general are in a fairly balanced spot where the pick depends more on composition and map than a tier list i think. Sonya excepted who is just the strongest warrior if not hero right now.
Had a negative experience with ETC last night. I picked him fourth in the draft:
Tomb of the Spider Queen
Us:
Johanna
Falstad
Medic
(me)
Other team:
Raynor
Illidan
Sonya
At the time I was thinking...
* We already have a medic and falstad, so something that boost autoattacks is good [...BUT medic didn't take stim, last player didn't pick autoattacker]
* They already have a heavy melee line, so something disruptive for divers was good
* I've had some good success with ETC
Unfortunately, the other team picked butcher/brightwing and our last player took nazeebo. As a result I had to be super careful with mosh, and since nazeebo took gargantuan we had close to zero wombo to followup mosh pit with. [Falstad also took gathering power with an autoattack build, which goes to my normal strategy of "don't trust anyone else with assassins"...]
So does ETC have to be a last pick? It seems like there are a lot of things that can disrupt mosh, so it is a dangerous thing to draft him early.
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I think ETC doesn't work well with Johanna (one collects guys, one spreads everything out, also neither particularly have the damage to be bruisers) and as you said you had no Wombo Potential with that comp.
Rockstar isn't going to buff auto-attackers so much that you warp your comp around it. Besides, Raynor/Illidan are both on the other team, so who's the 5th going to take? Maybe Valla (but her AA build isn't that popular). Hammer would be good, but she's a niche hero you can't count on seeing either.
The other way I'm seeing ETC played is Prog Rock - Groupies to make a sustain comp... but Medic isn't a sustain healer (at least I don't think, I don't have a ton of experience with her on my team).
Against an Illidan and Sonya I think I would have insta-grabbed Muradin. He can mess them up pretty well and although his damage isn't great either, his utility lines up much better with Johanna's and he's just as good as ETC at peeling.
But then again I like playing Muradin a lot =p.
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yeah, reverb muradin would have been better in hindsight.
but I guess my question stands: does ETC have to be much later in the draft to carefully avoid things that can cancel mosh?
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Mexico2170 Posts
On October 23 2015 03:51 MotherFox wrote:
yeah, reverb muradin would have been better in hindsight.
but I guess my question stands: does ETC have to be much later in the draft to carefully avoid things that can cancel mosh?
Maybe, but whenever I play ETC I make sure to mosh pit the heroes that could interrupt me.
While I would recommed not picking etc agaisnt a stun heavy comp, he can still work. A lot of the times people rush the mosh pit like if that was the only thing etc could do, but he can do so much more. It is better to wait for the time someone uses their stun and then use mosh pit, or Like I say wait until a target you want dead and a target who can interrupt you are close togheter and then mosh pit. Most people, even pros, clump up sometime during the fight. Wait for that moment.
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There will always be stuff that can cancel mosh. I think the important part is to catch all those enemies that can cancel you with the mosh - if you're not getting all of them stunned, it's not even worth using mosh. Might as well use it to burst down a lone enemy hero in that case, it doesn't always have to be used in every team fight because people are predicting you to. One thing I don't like is playing ETC vs Raynor though, good Raynors will just stay in the back and save their Q for when you actually go in with mosh, so it's practically impossible to get off a good mosh vs him since he doesn't stay with the rest of the team.
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Would have probably busted out my lvl 2 artanis for that draft.
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On October 23 2015 05:45 Garbels wrote:
Would have probably busted out my lvl 2 artanis for that draft.
I thought of doing this, but I have an internal rule that I don't draft characters I own which are level 5 or less. Also, of course, the medic was calling for someone to pick up cc and would probably have chewed me out even more if I had picked a warrior without stuns 
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If you see a melee heavy composition, you should draft Muradin if at all possible. Leoric is also good against them. Medic sucks, which is unfortunate... Uther or Kharazim would have been better (obviously). Butcher is also a good pick against melee.
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i was very sad at the medic pick in response to the enemy team picking raynor, as I feel raynor is one of the best pairings with the medic.
Of course, I was also sad to see medivac on tomb of the spider queen, but that is a different story.
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I don't think ETC was a mistake in your spot. He's a solid choice. Muradin would work as well. If you wanna go out of the mold, Li Li works with more blinds and pure numbers, but you'd need a strong Falstad.
While I'd expect your last pick to be Naz or Zagara, I think once you pick ETC, Zagara becomes the clear choice. If she lands a good maw, you can Mosh Pit it while, hopefully, your allies zone out Raynor. She's always strong on Tomb, and vision is very important vs dive teams.
Basically, your allies picked the wrong hero for their role every time, except Johanna first pick, always good on Tomb. Hope they play better than they draft.
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the johanna was in my party and frequents these boards-- I'm sure he'll be happy to hear the praise
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
I played Artanis about 10 games and lost about 6 of them and he seems to be a little weak.
He is weak because:
- No abilities to retreat
- No self healing
What i see to make him stronger:
- Just buff health like they did with Morales (don't really like it)
- Make the Q ability so you can cancel it. It will be cool if you want to retreat or catch an enemy (maybe too imba)
- Make auto-shield activation start from 70-75% health not 50% because now you have no access to it until you half damaged and easy to be killed.
- Maybe some longer range to Phase Prism because i miss the target so much.
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United States4883 Posts
On October 23 2015 17:34 Jenia6109 wrote:
I played Artanis about 10 games and lost about 6 of them and he seems to be a little weak.
He is weak because:
- No abilities to retreat
- No self healing
What i see to make him stronger:
- Just buff health like they did with Morales (don't really like it)
- Make the Q ability so you can cancel it. It will be cool if you want to retreat or catch an enemy (maybe too imba)
- Make auto-shield activation start from 70-75% health not 50% because now you have no access to it until you half damaged and easy to be killed.
- Maybe some longer range to Phase Prism because i miss the target so much.
Take Psionic Synergy at level 7 and it will solve a lot of your survival problems. It counts for both dashes on the Q and all enemy heroes, so if you hit 4 heroes in total with it, he automatically procs his shield every time he Qs. If you get some talents like Triple Strike, it lowers the cooldown on his shields even faster so that it's almost always up. At that point, Force of Will at 20 is pretty much unnecessary. In my experience, Artanis is really easy to get down to 50% and impossible to actually kill if he's spec'd correctly.
EDIT: The biggest thing that everyone's noticing is that he starts out pretty slow, but by the time he gets to level 16 onwards, he's a monster. So that's also an issue for people who want to break people early and are dissatisfied with his early game.
EDIT: Actually, it only takes 2 people to proc his shield with Q using Psionic Synergy. (2 x both dashes = 4 x 4 = 16 second CDR + one auto attack).
I agree that Q needs to be a bit more interesting or at least have an unstoppable frame, but I think people are far from mastering it as it works already, so I'm hesitant to insist on changes to it yet. The animation on Phase Prism needs to be faster or higher ranged, I agree with you on that. Right now it's only useful in practically melee situations where switching places doesn't do much other than body block.
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On October 23 2015 03:28 MotherFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2015 05:55 Markwerf wrote:On October 22 2015 05:20 MotherFox wrote:
speaking of hero league--- I'm noticing E.T.C. having quite the resurgence. He's passed Johanna on hotslogs. ETC is quite alright, well positioned amongst the currently popular heroes I think. His attack speed boost works well with heroes like raynor and kharazim and a quick reliable stun is pretty good against stuff like sonya. Plus the globe talent + groupies is quite strong. Johanna just isn't that strong anymore either, warriors in general are in a fairly balanced spot where the pick depends more on composition and map than a tier list i think. Sonya excepted who is just the strongest warrior if not hero right now. Had a negative experience with ETC last night. I picked him fourth in the draft: Tomb of the Spider Queen Us: Johanna Falstad Medic (me) Other team: Raynor Illidan Sonya At the time I was thinking... * We already have a medic and falstad, so something that boost autoattacks is good [...BUT medic didn't take stim, last player didn't pick autoattacker] * They already have a heavy melee line, so something disruptive for divers was good * I've had some good success with ETC Unfortunately, the other team picked butcher/brightwing and our last player took nazeebo. As a result I had to be super careful with mosh, and since nazeebo took gargantuan we had close to zero wombo to followup mosh pit with. [Falstad also took gathering power with an autoattack build, which goes to my normal strategy of "don't trust anyone else with assassins"...] So does ETC have to be a last pick? It seems like there are a lot of things that can disrupt mosh, so it is a dangerous thing to draft him early.
ETC because of medic is iffy. I get the line of thought that medic enables autoattackers so the next pick should probably be something that can carry drone but people draft too bad for that, because of that I do like to pick ETC very late or when the good synergies are already there. Also note stim drone and ETC attack bonus isn't even very good together, attack speed bonusses are additive (exception nexus frenzy only I believe) so drone + ETC trait is arguably even diminishing returns.
And as others mention I prefer ETC as a more main tank character paired with a bruiser more, not so much a johanna.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On October 23 2015 18:19 SC2John wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2015 17:34 Jenia6109 wrote:
I played Artanis about 10 games and lost about 6 of them and he seems to be a little weak.
He is weak because:
- No abilities to retreat
- No self healing
What i see to make him stronger:
- Just buff health like they did with Morales (don't really like it)
- Make the Q ability so you can cancel it. It will be cool if you want to retreat or catch an enemy (maybe too imba)
- Make auto-shield activation start from 70-75% health not 50% because now you have no access to it until you half damaged and easy to be killed.
- Maybe some longer range to Phase Prism because i miss the target so much. Take Psionic Synergy at level 7 and it will solve a lot of your survival problems. It counts for both dashes on the Q and all enemy heroes, so if you hit 4 heroes in total with it, he automatically procs his shield every time he Qs. If you get some talents like Triple Strike, it lowers the cooldown on his shields even faster so that it's almost always up. At that point, Force of Will at 20 is pretty much unnecessary. In my experience, Artanis is really easy to get down to 50% and impossible to actually kill if he's spec'd correctly. EDIT: The biggest thing that everyone's noticing is that he starts out pretty slow, but by the time he gets to level 16 onwards, he's a monster. So that's also an issue for people who want to break people early and are dissatisfied with his early game. EDIT: Actually, it only takes 2 people to proc his shield with Q using Psionic Synergy. (2 x both dashes = 4 x 4 = 16 second CDR + one auto attack). I agree that Q needs to be a bit more interesting or at least have an unstoppable frame, but I think people are far from mastering it as it works already, so I'm hesitant to insist on changes to it yet. The animation on Phase Prism needs to be faster or higher ranged, I agree with you on that. Right now it's only useful in practically melee situations where switching places doesn't do much other than body block.
I think Psionic Synergy is the answer with Nexus Blades on 20th level.
Also i can predict that some talents will be switched or changed in some patch.
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EPT
