• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:19
CEST 20:19
KST 03:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists19[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) FSL Season 10 Individual Championship WardiTV Spring Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review ASL21 General Discussion Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review [ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1544 users

Cursed Hollow Cheese

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
Post a Reply
CarlTheLlama
Profile Joined April 2015
United States43 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-12 23:05:41
September 12 2015 23:01 GMT
#1
Hi there, I’m CarlTheLlama, one of the top support mains who you may have seen on some of the popular streams, in tournaments, etc., captain of Beyond Reason which in its heyday placed 3rd/4th in NA. I had an idea for a cheese in a game yesterday that worked out, so I wanted to share it.

This is a small but effective timing-specific merc steal + well assassination, the timing of which can cripple your opponent's ability to sustain fights at tributes, and take a keep tower, which is as much XP as a fort.

(1) 30 seconds before merc camps spawn you take the watchtower, then show yourself somewhere on the map to distract any watchful eyes from your true intentions.
(2) after showing yourself on the map, you go wait by the easy camp for it to spawn, in case someone comes to re-take the watchtower.
(3) You take the merc camp, and when everyone goes to the tribute, you take their mid well. Of course, you can do just mercs or just well, but I think the combo works nicely together.


If you want to watch a short video to see how it works, you can here.



I keep a list of my current content (Tips & Tricks, guides, Psychology, etc.) below, which I try to add to each week.


List of current content:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xMVWGzmv-bAEJYf6noFfmZfioIAnO3pRkRfAJzpTbwM/edit?usp=sharing
All that is gold does not glitter
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
September 13 2015 00:07 GMT
#2
Hello! thanks for sharing this.

Cursed hollow is one of my favorite maps because I don't feel you are as forced to do the objective as the other maps. You have other set of objectives in the mercenary camps and the curse needs 3 tributes to activate, which not only makes it easier for a team to not fall that far behind, but also, as they don't give you an immediate advantage, you can do other cool stuff like this.

Your team probably lost the first tribute, but still found themselves ahead in experience thanks to good soaking and you put pressure on the team with the merc camps while they are busy with the trib, making them deal maximum damage.

Also I think a lot of people underestimate the importance of healing fountains. If you destroy them they can't quickly back to heal and go back, and so they must either go to another fountain or back to base, where they'll lose a lot more time and will leave their team at a disadvantage.

So I really like that people explore other options instead of "let’s go as 5 to all tributes no matter what", as you can use the time to catch up in experience or get further ahead.

WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1837 Posts
September 13 2015 08:40 GMT
#3
Seems a bit risky though, without abby it might take too long to cap the merc, and your team might die on the tribute if they are not aware what you are doing and don't play the stall game.

Will try it out though.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
September 13 2015 08:58 GMT
#4
Lol this is a pretty useless strategy. You could have assisted your team after the sieges.

It just seems like a regular 2-min siege steal w/o bribe into a well-destruction that only affects 1 guy really.
hi
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 13 2015 10:09 GMT
#5
Quite risky and not a whole lot of payoff. I'd rather do something like an early boss or hard camp on my side then. Safer and puts more pressure.

Of course at cursed pushing and soaking while delaying the objective is a very good tactic and often great. It's in my opinion a blunder to go for the objective with 5 man if the other team has an abathur. It just means they get soak in on 1 or even 2 lanes extra because of the abathur while abathur can still help at the objective fight, it's terrible.
Just leave a good pusher in the lane far from the tribute, deny abathur the easy soak a bit at least and force them to win the tribute with 4+hat vs 4. Sure you probably lose the tribute, but it isn't worth much, but you can reverse the roles by actually getting an advantage the longer the tribute fight lasts.

DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45765 Posts
September 13 2015 12:12 GMT
#6
So you sacrificed a tribute, stopped soaking, and forced your team into a 4v5 situation just so you could kill a well? And that's assuming that the entire team "falls for it". That doesn't seem like a particularly great trade-off imo. Fortunately, the other team didn't kill off your team and get a huge exp lead.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 13 2015 14:29 GMT
#7
a well kill is pretty nice early on. But there is usually no escape if they go for you. So its cute, but only if the people don't know how to deal with it.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
September 13 2015 16:32 GMT
#8
He did stop stop soaking, and yet his team is still ahead oon experience. Taking your" siege giagants is not as good as they take longer to reach their destination and therefore deal less damage. Admiteddly though, the monk probably wasn't the best hero to do this. Someone with Bribe or Illidan cuald have made it a little quicker.

WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
CarlTheLlama
Profile Joined April 2015
United States43 Posts
September 13 2015 19:09 GMT
#9
I'm still new to these forums, so sorry if this is a big mistake, but I'm gonna try to address all the comments so far in one post.

@Phantom Thanks for the encouragement! It means a lot coming from (what I perceive as a newb) someone of your prestige.

@EveryoneElse There seems to be a big disconnect on the value placed on tributes. I've long held that tributes are the weakest objective in the game, and trading them for soak, if done well enough will get you 10 on your opponents before the third tribute, which means they have to give it up, and even if they do you have a solid window to get kills, depending on how well you stalled. Even if you give up curse on the fourth tribute, if you're ahead on XP you have the advantage for a fight, and if they don't fight you you can just clear waves, taking a little bit of damage to structures. With your minions getting incinerated, they'll fall even further behind on XP as long as you don't panic during the curse and do something stupid. In short, Curse really only helps you if you're ahead (or have recently gotten kills, making you temporarily stronger on the map), otherwise it mostly just gives you confidence that often is unwarranted.

I'm not upset that this strat isn't spreading like the plague, but to be painfully honest I am a little surprised- people don't seem to recognize the payoff. Wells are a major factor for sustained tribute fights, and sacrificing one tribute to prevent everyone on the enemy team from restoring 30% HP/mana is an advantage you have to work hard to blow. Fats also push really hard when left alone, and with the timing of the tribute, that's exactly what happens to them. The gratification isn't instant, but it is substantial.

It is indeed a sacrifice of a tribute, but one well worth it in my experience, and I've been playing the game full time at a high level since December. I recognize the risks of getting caught, which are lower for Monk, although this comes at the expense of his clear time, and that's why it's labeled as a cheese. Doing a 6-pool every game isn't going to get you to pro status, but pros do occasionally 6-pool (I hope, I never actually watched much starcraft, you can sub in cannon rush or some other cheese for 6-pool if you prefer).

That's my perspective anyways, I hope that clears things up a bit.
All that is gold does not glitter
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
September 13 2015 21:15 GMT
#10
Honestly though, the only reason it kinda pays off for you (if we assume that the destruction of the well is gonna cause issues for the enemy team) is because Abathur is helping you. I didn't really notice it at first, but he does help you kill of the 1st one, something that would have taken a longer amount of time if you were solo.
You give away a lot of team-presence too, especially considering you're doing this as a support and not a melee like Illidan or Gazlowe. Even if you consider the 1st tribute to be rather useless (and i can see why you do) it's only a minor distraction that you give up at the cost of soaking - Something that you pointed out yourself was needed in order to break-even with the tributes gathered.

At the end of the day it just seems like a really mediocre cheese to me. If you were able to cut off a well from a tri-lane, then the destruction would obviously bring more value on the table, but given that it's mid-lane (which is infested with warriors in this meta) you just don't disrupt enough to justify giving up on both exp soaking and tribute-gathering.
hi
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 148
BRAT_OK 92
Railgan 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 1833
Jaedong 1153
Mini 502
ggaemo 292
Rush 164
firebathero 157
ZerO 120
Dewaltoss 88
hero 60
Hyun 49
[ Show more ]
Bale 34
Sexy 29
PianO 27
Pusan 17
910 17
Shine 10
Dota 2
Gorgc6356
420jenkins165
capcasts31
Counter-Strike
fl0m5117
byalli706
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King81
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu2524
MindelVK10
Other Games
Grubby4000
B2W.Neo396
C9.Mang0207
Sick188
elazer145
KnowMe125
ArmadaUGS83
QueenE79
Trikslyr43
ZerO(Twitch)21
kaitlyn9
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV238
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream52
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 27
• 80smullet 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2508
• TFBlade1236
Other Games
• imaqtpie698
• Shiphtur216
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 41m
GSL
15h 11m
Cure vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Bunny
KCM Race Survival
15h 41m
Big Gabe
17h 41m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Escore
1d 15h
OSC
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
4 days
IPSL
4 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Snow vs Flash
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-28
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.