• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:21
CET 23:21
KST 07:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0258LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
Terran AddOns placement How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April The Dave Testa Open #11
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
TvZ is the most complete match up BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Mexico's Drug War
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
YOUTUBE VIDEO
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2242 users

Cursed Hollow Cheese

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
Post a Reply
CarlTheLlama
Profile Joined April 2015
United States43 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-12 23:05:41
September 12 2015 23:01 GMT
#1
Hi there, I’m CarlTheLlama, one of the top support mains who you may have seen on some of the popular streams, in tournaments, etc., captain of Beyond Reason which in its heyday placed 3rd/4th in NA. I had an idea for a cheese in a game yesterday that worked out, so I wanted to share it.

This is a small but effective timing-specific merc steal + well assassination, the timing of which can cripple your opponent's ability to sustain fights at tributes, and take a keep tower, which is as much XP as a fort.

(1) 30 seconds before merc camps spawn you take the watchtower, then show yourself somewhere on the map to distract any watchful eyes from your true intentions.
(2) after showing yourself on the map, you go wait by the easy camp for it to spawn, in case someone comes to re-take the watchtower.
(3) You take the merc camp, and when everyone goes to the tribute, you take their mid well. Of course, you can do just mercs or just well, but I think the combo works nicely together.


If you want to watch a short video to see how it works, you can here.



I keep a list of my current content (Tips & Tricks, guides, Psychology, etc.) below, which I try to add to each week.


List of current content:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xMVWGzmv-bAEJYf6noFfmZfioIAnO3pRkRfAJzpTbwM/edit?usp=sharing
All that is gold does not glitter
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
September 13 2015 00:07 GMT
#2
Hello! thanks for sharing this.

Cursed hollow is one of my favorite maps because I don't feel you are as forced to do the objective as the other maps. You have other set of objectives in the mercenary camps and the curse needs 3 tributes to activate, which not only makes it easier for a team to not fall that far behind, but also, as they don't give you an immediate advantage, you can do other cool stuff like this.

Your team probably lost the first tribute, but still found themselves ahead in experience thanks to good soaking and you put pressure on the team with the merc camps while they are busy with the trib, making them deal maximum damage.

Also I think a lot of people underestimate the importance of healing fountains. If you destroy them they can't quickly back to heal and go back, and so they must either go to another fountain or back to base, where they'll lose a lot more time and will leave their team at a disadvantage.

So I really like that people explore other options instead of "let’s go as 5 to all tributes no matter what", as you can use the time to catch up in experience or get further ahead.

WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1837 Posts
September 13 2015 08:40 GMT
#3
Seems a bit risky though, without abby it might take too long to cap the merc, and your team might die on the tribute if they are not aware what you are doing and don't play the stall game.

Will try it out though.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
September 13 2015 08:58 GMT
#4
Lol this is a pretty useless strategy. You could have assisted your team after the sieges.

It just seems like a regular 2-min siege steal w/o bribe into a well-destruction that only affects 1 guy really.
hi
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 13 2015 10:09 GMT
#5
Quite risky and not a whole lot of payoff. I'd rather do something like an early boss or hard camp on my side then. Safer and puts more pressure.

Of course at cursed pushing and soaking while delaying the objective is a very good tactic and often great. It's in my opinion a blunder to go for the objective with 5 man if the other team has an abathur. It just means they get soak in on 1 or even 2 lanes extra because of the abathur while abathur can still help at the objective fight, it's terrible.
Just leave a good pusher in the lane far from the tribute, deny abathur the easy soak a bit at least and force them to win the tribute with 4+hat vs 4. Sure you probably lose the tribute, but it isn't worth much, but you can reverse the roles by actually getting an advantage the longer the tribute fight lasts.

DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45316 Posts
September 13 2015 12:12 GMT
#6
So you sacrificed a tribute, stopped soaking, and forced your team into a 4v5 situation just so you could kill a well? And that's assuming that the entire team "falls for it". That doesn't seem like a particularly great trade-off imo. Fortunately, the other team didn't kill off your team and get a huge exp lead.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 13 2015 14:29 GMT
#7
a well kill is pretty nice early on. But there is usually no escape if they go for you. So its cute, but only if the people don't know how to deal with it.
[Phantom]
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Mexico2170 Posts
September 13 2015 16:32 GMT
#8
He did stop stop soaking, and yet his team is still ahead oon experience. Taking your" siege giagants is not as good as they take longer to reach their destination and therefore deal less damage. Admiteddly though, the monk probably wasn't the best hero to do this. Someone with Bribe or Illidan cuald have made it a little quicker.

WriterTeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom
CarlTheLlama
Profile Joined April 2015
United States43 Posts
September 13 2015 19:09 GMT
#9
I'm still new to these forums, so sorry if this is a big mistake, but I'm gonna try to address all the comments so far in one post.

@Phantom Thanks for the encouragement! It means a lot coming from (what I perceive as a newb) someone of your prestige.

@EveryoneElse There seems to be a big disconnect on the value placed on tributes. I've long held that tributes are the weakest objective in the game, and trading them for soak, if done well enough will get you 10 on your opponents before the third tribute, which means they have to give it up, and even if they do you have a solid window to get kills, depending on how well you stalled. Even if you give up curse on the fourth tribute, if you're ahead on XP you have the advantage for a fight, and if they don't fight you you can just clear waves, taking a little bit of damage to structures. With your minions getting incinerated, they'll fall even further behind on XP as long as you don't panic during the curse and do something stupid. In short, Curse really only helps you if you're ahead (or have recently gotten kills, making you temporarily stronger on the map), otherwise it mostly just gives you confidence that often is unwarranted.

I'm not upset that this strat isn't spreading like the plague, but to be painfully honest I am a little surprised- people don't seem to recognize the payoff. Wells are a major factor for sustained tribute fights, and sacrificing one tribute to prevent everyone on the enemy team from restoring 30% HP/mana is an advantage you have to work hard to blow. Fats also push really hard when left alone, and with the timing of the tribute, that's exactly what happens to them. The gratification isn't instant, but it is substantial.

It is indeed a sacrifice of a tribute, but one well worth it in my experience, and I've been playing the game full time at a high level since December. I recognize the risks of getting caught, which are lower for Monk, although this comes at the expense of his clear time, and that's why it's labeled as a cheese. Doing a 6-pool every game isn't going to get you to pro status, but pros do occasionally 6-pool (I hope, I never actually watched much starcraft, you can sub in cannon rush or some other cheese for 6-pool if you prefer).

That's my perspective anyways, I hope that clears things up a bit.
All that is gold does not glitter
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
September 13 2015 21:15 GMT
#10
Honestly though, the only reason it kinda pays off for you (if we assume that the destruction of the well is gonna cause issues for the enemy team) is because Abathur is helping you. I didn't really notice it at first, but he does help you kill of the 1st one, something that would have taken a longer amount of time if you were solo.
You give away a lot of team-presence too, especially considering you're doing this as a support and not a melee like Illidan or Gazlowe. Even if you consider the 1st tribute to be rather useless (and i can see why you do) it's only a minor distraction that you give up at the cost of soaking - Something that you pointed out yourself was needed in order to break-even with the tributes gathered.

At the end of the day it just seems like a really mediocre cheese to me. If you were able to cut off a well from a tri-lane, then the destruction would obviously bring more value on the table, but given that it's mid-lane (which is infested with warriors in this meta) you just don't disrupt enough to justify giving up on both exp soaking and tribute-gathering.
hi
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
AI Arena Tournament
20:00
RO8
Laughngamez YouTube
DaveTesta Events
18:15
The Dave Testa Open #11
davetesta45
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 226
gerald23 73
Liquid`TLO 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21720
ZZZero.O 57
NaDa 11
Dota 2
420jenkins23
LuMiX2
League of Legends
JimRising 278
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K98
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox954
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor250
Other Games
summit1g5673
tarik_tv4709
Grubby3701
mouzStarbuck499
crisheroes275
B2W.Neo251
ToD167
Liquid`Hasu158
ZombieGrub48
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick907
Counter-Strike
PGL229
StarCraft 2
angryscii 30
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 83
• musti20045 16
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2573
• Noizen30
League of Legends
• Doublelift2605
Other Games
• imaqtpie881
• Shiphtur256
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 39m
PiG Sty Festival
10h 39m
Clem vs Serral
Maru vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 39m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
16h 39m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Wardi Open
1d 13h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-27
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.