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KobraKay
Portugal4202 Posts
On August 08 2015 18:42 Vaalia wrote: Can confirm: If you pre-order LOTV You get Artanis in-game! Nice! Just pre-ordered. Guess I'll get one Artanis for free ^^ Now onto play the prologue missions, after that, watch the start of OGN Heroes league :D | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
well getting 15 kills usually doesn't happen outside of Quickmatch though or if you have a Murky, Vikings on the enemy team. Gathering Power heroes would become pretty strong picks against those 2 then. Well I guess that change will hurt Falstad the most. His damage Ult will be weak. But its interesting that they nerf all the general abilities and give a few heroes special versions that work better with their character. Will make each hero more unique even if there are 100. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
it seems like the changes are to enable some more shield synergy which I am very happy about  her trait as it is is kind of lackluster and rarely comes into play as a strategical factor, its more like glorified health regen.I would say essence for essence is an improvement over the standard blood for blood, its basically the same thing as blood for blood but you wont feel bad for just using it at the start of the fight, on the contrary using it as often as you can and trying to keep the shield going makes you more resistant to bursty characters. I don't think there is much of a worry that the shield will time out, taking the 20 second duration talent practically guarantees it wont time out and even without it its typically not very difficult to deal some damage once every 6 seconds. On August 09 2015 23:09 FeyFey wrote: well getting 15 kills usually doesn't happen outside of Quickmatch though or if you have a Murky, Vikings on the enemy team. Gathering Power heroes would become pretty strong picks against those 2 then. Well I guess that change will hurt Falstad the most. His damage Ult will be weak. But its interesting that they nerf all the general abilities and give a few heroes special versions that work better with their character. Will make each hero more unique even if there are 100. note that half of the stacks are retained upon death in this new version so if you ever have 15 stacks then you will "only" need 8 new stacks to get up to max again. on the topic of character specific versions of general talents. yes. this is something blizz has been doing for a while, for example: Azmodans Bound Minion (char specific promote) Brightwings Peekaboo (char specific clairvoyance) Diablos Life Leech (char specific giant killer) Illidans Immolation, Reflexive Block (char specific burning rage, block) Kerrigans Psionic Pulse (char specific burning rage) Lilis Elusive Feet, Herbal Cleanse (char specific block, cleanse) Murkys Living the Dream (char specific gathering power) Raynors Raiders "Recruitment" (char specific bribe) Rehgars Healing Totem, Forward Momentum, Farsight (char specific healing ward, battle momentum, clairvoyance) Sylvanas Remorseless (char specific follow through) Vikings Olaf the Stout, Viking bribery, Its a Sabotage, Hunk'a Burning Olaf, Nordic Attack Squad (char specific block, bribe, Demolitionist, burning rage, giant killer) Zagaras Infest (char specific promote) I'm sure I have missed some. I love that they are doing this :D more of this please :D (of course, not to the point that we would be neglecting ability/trait-modifying talents, those are even more awesome :D) as for why generic talents exist in the first place, they are useful and positive for the game for a variety of reasons, but they don't have that cool factor us players really like  | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On August 09 2015 23:09 FeyFey wrote: well getting 15 kills usually doesn't happen outside of Quickmatch though or if you have a Murky, Vikings on the enemy team. Gathering Power heroes would become pretty strong picks against those 2 then. Well I guess that change will hurt Falstad the most. His damage Ult will be weak. But its interesting that they nerf all the general abilities and give a few heroes special versions that work better with their character. Will make each hero more unique even if there are 100. I'm actually OK with losing GP (and I say this as a KT main). It's an incredible ability, but the game has too much burst as it is. Having fewer of those "oh, I died?" moments is going to be better for gameplay and teamfights overall. The KT Jaina Zera meta is wonky in that teamfights are over in one or two abilities. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On August 10 2015 22:21 Crownlol wrote: No sprint on Naz? RIP, entirely unplayable. Just as Kael and Jaina are, right? To be honest I love that he is losing Sprint and is getting something else to compensate and he is one of my most played heroes. He still has Ice Block that is sometime used even on pro level. Heavy spell-casting range assassins(because let's be honest, he is an assassin) having Sprint is really stupid anyway. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On August 11 2015 00:16 Ramiz1989 wrote: Just as Kael and Jaina are, right? To be honest I love that he is losing Sprint and is getting something else to compensate and he is one of my most played heroes. He still has Ice Block that is sometime used even on pro level. Heavy spell-casting range assassins(because let's be honest, he is an assassin) having Sprint is really stupid anyway. Ok, I'm not sure where to start here. I'm a Nazeebo/KT main with 100+ wins between them and you're a Naz main too, so let's discuss: >Comparing Naz to The Wondertwins KT and Jaina can both oneshot opponents in a single rotation from full HP. If they had mobility they'd be full on godmode (as if they're not strong enough already). Jaina has permasnare to escape, while KT has a multi stun. Naz just has zombies which can be oneshotted or avoided. >Let's be honest, he is an assassin You couldn't be more wrong about that. There's zero burst in his kit, which defines an assassin. He's pretty much a support, except with good splitpush and AoE tickle DoT. The current meta is ALL burst, and Naz has none. At higher levels, you're pretty much just there for Zombies and lategame Humongoid PvE damage. Naz needs Sprint because he's so hilariously weak against bursty assassins/warriors. Getting an increase in range DOES work well with his poke/harass kit, and it's going to be awesome with Zombies (which again, is the only reason to pick Nazeebo). Naz is often in bad positions because you're really only there to use Zombies like SC2 ForceFields, and Sprint is the only thing that lets you escape. Spiders aren't exactly as good as Flamestrike in a teamfight, man. The only excuse I can see for Nazeebo to lose Sprint is because it was allowing Naz to way overextend without really risking anything. You can backdoor huge damage to structures and just lolsprint if any defenders come. I can see how players would get frustrated by not being able to kill me as I just trot away after soloing a fort. But without that power, there's just no reason to take Naz. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
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MoreFaSho
United States1427 Posts
On the flip side things that are really fun, gravity lapse!!! This upgrade was already really good, but just hard to take over gathering power (especially in pub games, actually sees quite a bit of use in pro play). This was already a ton of fun as the KT player to get a good gravity lapse off with nether winds. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On August 11 2015 00:45 Crownlol wrote: Ok, I'm not sure where to start here. I'm a Nazeebo/KT main with 100+ wins between them and you're a Naz main too, so let's discuss: >Comparing Naz to The Wondertwins KT and Jaina can both oneshot opponents in a single rotation from full HP. If they had mobility they'd be full on godmode (as if they're not strong enough already). Jaina has permasnare to escape, while KT has a multi stun. Naz just has zombies which can be oneshotted or avoided. You can also avoid Kael's stun and if you start focusing Kael down he is pretty much as good as dead, stun won't help you there unless it is 1v1 situation. >Let's be honest, he is an assassin You couldn't be more wrong about that. There's zero burst in his kit, which defines an assassin. He's pretty much a support, except with good splitpush and AoE tickle DoT. The current meta is ALL burst, and Naz has none. At higher levels, you're pretty much just there for Zombies and lategame Humongoid PvE damage. There is zero burst in his kit? Nazeebo can burst down heroes alone in 3 seconds of his Zombie wall. Yes his burst isn't as good as Jaina's or Kael's but those 2 probably have the highest in the game. You are saying that he is support and obviously word support doesn't mean what you think it means. He has 0 supporting abilities, if you consider Zombies to be supporting ability then I guess Jaina and Kael are also supports since they have snare and stun... The word "meta" is just pile of crap, if you are good enough and trained enough and work around your picks and strategies you can do whatever you want. If you are watching tournament scene you can notice that apart from few obviously must-pick heroes, different heroes are popular in EU, NA and Asian scene, and some teams are winning with heroes that are considered to be bad like Murky, Nova, Gazlow etc. Nazeebo has been picked quite a lot at the pro level and is one of the heroes with most win-rates on hotslogs(even though that doesn't say much). I've seen multiple times Zagara and Nazeebo as 2 damage dealers combined with 2 tanks at the pro level. Naz needs Sprint because he's so hilariously weak against bursty assassins/warriors. Getting an increase in range DOES work well with his poke/harass kit, and it's going to be awesome with Zombies (which again, is the only reason to pick Nazeebo). Naz is often in bad positions because you're really only there to use Zombies like SC2 ForceFields, and Sprint is the only thing that lets you escape. Spiders aren't exactly as good as Flamestrike in a teamfight, man. Of course that Spiders aren't good as Flamestrike but come on, you define assassin as someone who has to have burst and that simply isn't true. There are quite a few sustain assassins in the game, Raynor, Illidan, Tychus don't have burst like Jaina and Kael have. Of course that Nazeebo isn't just an assassin but he is also one of my most played heroes and the only heroes I can compare him with are ranged assassins with their poking and positioning. The only excuse I can see for Nazeebo to lose Sprint is because it was allowing Naz to way overextend without really risking anything. You can backdoor huge damage to structures and just lolsprint if any defenders come. I can see how players would get frustrated by not being able to kill me as I just trot away after soloing a fort. But without that power, there's just no reason to take Naz. Yes, you keep saying this but on top level Sprint isn't even used all the time... Today I've watched MYM vs. some other team(BOB I think?) where BOB had Nazeebo with Ice Block... Also, he might be getting Hardened Focus as well, and Nazeebo with 25% range on his spells and having them cooldown 50% faster if he has 80%+ HP sounds sick. Gidbin also seems to buff Spiders and Zombie wall only, but 33% instead of 25% which is again nice buff. Hey, maybe I am wrong and he will become bad but from all of this all I am getting is that he could be really fragile but at the same time really scary if positioned well and if he has a good team behind him. I certainly can't wait to play him as I didn't like Sprint on him to begin with even though sometimes it was necessary. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On August 11 2015 01:26 MoreFaSho wrote: I know I'm going to be in the minority, but I'm really excited to play post-patch KT. I was not a big fan of the play style for the flamestrike + ignite build for KT. Obviously it was very strong, but just didn't feel super fun. On the flip side things that are really fun, gravity lapse!!! This upgrade was already really good, but just hard to take over gathering power (especially in pub games, actually sees quite a bit of use in pro play). This was already a ton of fun as the KT player to get a good gravity lapse off with nether winds. What playstyle is left!? They nerfed the hell out of rolling bombs, and now they've nerfed his burst spec. He went from being only a little below Jaina in power to losing his most important talent (and the replacement is ridiculously bad) and being much, much worse than her. The only hope is that Living Bomb's base damage has increased enough to offset the *other* nerf to Fission Bomb, or that these are a typo. Or that there's some hidden buff somewhere in here, like they revert the nerf to reapplying Bomb. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
Hey, maybe I am wrong and he will become bad but from all of this all I am getting is that he could be really fragile but at the same time really scary if positioned well and if he has a good team behind him. I certainly can't wait to play him as I didn't like Sprint on him to begin with even though sometimes it was necessary. Support doesn't just mean healing or buffing. Nazeebo is a support character in that he assists his team, but doesn't do the big burst or huge solo plays. He helps other carries like Jaina or Valla do that by disrupting the enemy team, chipping at their health, helping escape, and turning fights in a way that favors our team (using zombies to force movement etc). I just don't see how he's going to become scary. 25% range is a thing, I'll give you that. Chucking Spiders and Zombies from further away will definitely be nice, and Resolve will maintain his current position as a great poker. All of the big plays and big contributions I make with Naz fall into two categories: Sick SC2 forcefields and intense backdoor pressure (heh). Removing sprint is a *massive* nerf to one of those categories. It doesn't really impact the other one *too* much. Naz will be in a better place post-nerf than KT will. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
Now that is completely separate from the question of whether he will come out weaker or stronger after the changes, it's way too early to tell I think. It's just that it was not absolutely necessary to remove sprint from his kit, they could have left it on him, they just made the design decision to remove it, which is fine. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Assassins don't need to have burst, the role assassin is simply another way of saying dps class or damage dealer. If all assassins need to have burst then Raynor and Tychus definitely are not assassins. If some hero has a ton of sustain damage than he can be considered being an assassin. Secondly, support means healing, buffing or debuffing, otherwise 100% of the heroes can be classified as supports as there is not a single one that doesn't have some ability to support his team. Now Nazeebo is obviously a specialist, but the reason why I consider him to be an assassin is because he has a lot of sustain damage and if played correctly it is very hard not to have the highest hero damage on your team, unless you have Jaina/Kael/Valla too. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On August 11 2015 02:48 Ramiz1989 wrote: I don't know guys, your classifications are quite strange. Assassins don't need to have burst, the role assassin is simply another way of saying dps class or damage dealer. If all assassins need to have burst then Raynor and Tychus definitely are not assassins. If some hero has a ton of sustain damage than he can be considered being an assassin. Secondly, support means healing, buffing or debuffing, otherwise 100% of the heroes can be classified as supports as there is not a single one that doesn't have some ability to support his team. Now Nazeebo is obviously a specialist, but the reason why I consider him to be an assassin is because he has a lot of sustain damage and if played correctly it is very hard not to have the highest hero damage on your team, unless you have Jaina/Kael/Valla too. Assassin means high damage meant to kill an opposing player, usually burst. If there were more classifications in the game, I wouldn't even classify Tychus as assassin. He's more of a ranged bruiser almost, Raynor is almost the same but this game doesn't really have a class for duelist. Support does *not* have to mean healing buffing and debuffing. It's anything that assists your team. Forcefields from Tassadar (if people took that talent) are a support ability. There are plenty of support in games that don't heal and buff (or even debuff), although many do. Look at support Lux and Zyra from LoL for instance. Since this game created a role, the janky support/utility kit of Nazeebo can be shoehorned into the "Specialist" role which doesn't exist in other games. If Naz was in LoL or DotA2 he'd be considered support/utility. Sustained damage (and especially PvE damage) is the opposite of what an assassin does. This game just shoehorns these classic roles into a handfull of classifications. Small AoE DoTs are literally the opposite of what an assassin role is (think Zeratul). Really, I wouldn't even consider KT or Jaina as assassins, but this game has no Mage classification (dump high burst at the outset of a fight to assist your Assassins). In either the traditional or the HotS terminology, Nazeebo is *not* an assassin. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On August 11 2015 03:31 Crownlol wrote: Support does *not* have to mean healing buffing and debuffing. It's anything that assists your team. Forcefields from Tassadar (if people took that talent) are a support ability. There are plenty of support in games that don't heal and buff (or even debuff), although many do. Look at support Lux and Zyra from LoL for instance. Since this game created a role, the janky support/utility kit of Nazeebo can be shoehorned into the "Specialist" role which doesn't exist in other games. If Naz was in LoL or DotA2 he'd be considered support/utility. Sustained damage (and especially PvE damage) is the opposite of what an assassin does. This game just shoehorns these classic roles into a handfull of classifications. Small AoE DoTs are literally the opposite of what an assassin role is (think Zeratul). Really, I wouldn't even consider KT or Jaina as assassins, but this game has no Mage classification (dump high burst at the outset of a fight to assist your Assassins). In either the traditional or the HotS terminology, Nazeebo is *not* an assassin. It is hard to compare this to Dota 2 or LoL, in Dota 2 heroes that are cores(assassins/carries) are played as supports and some supports can be played solo mid as cores(Bounty Hunter is typical assassin that is played as support in Dota 2) and the whole aspect of those games is different just because of the items. Maybe he isn't an assassin, but I wouldn't call him support either, especially when teams picks him as one of the main damage dealers. | ||
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FreeZEternal
Korea (South)3396 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 11 2015 04:49 FreeZEternal wrote: I really think Blizzard is making a mistake nerfing KT like this. I am not a KT main at all but it was interesting having these poke comps. The game is just becoming way too generic with all these heroes nerf. We'll have to wait to see the patch notes, but supposedly they're doing a major rework. The problems with Kael right now are 1) he only has one good build, and 2) the power curve of that build is completely retarded in that Kael is a pretty bad hero until he hits 16, at which point he becomes a monster. According to Grubby, the changes to Kael will open up additional builds and fix his scaling issues. We'll just have to wait and see how effective he ultimately is. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
On August 11 2015 04:59 xDaunt wrote: We'll have to wait to see the patch notes, but supposedly they're doing a major rework. The problems with Kael right now are 1) he only has one good build, and 2) the power curve of that build is completely retarded in that Kael is a pretty bad hero until he hits 16, at which point he becomes a monster. According to Grubby, the changes to Kael will open up additional builds and fix his scaling issues. We'll just have to wait and see how effective he ultimately is. In order to open up other builds they'd need to fix his other issues. Right now he's essentially only playable *because* with Ignite and 5stack GP he becomes a monster right at 16. I (even as a KT main) don't actually prefer that method of gameplay - just throw out circles and if they hit you win, if you they miss you lose. I preferred building full bomb specs when he came out. I'd actually rather see KT be based more on Living Bomb and fire dots than just being a gimped version of Jaina like he is now (and of course would be entirely unpickable with the proposed nerfs). Perhaps a talent that increases the DoT portion of Living Bomb a ton, but is on the same tier as Fission Bomb. Take that talent and the bomb slow talent and he becomes this fiery spreader of doom which fits the fire role a little better. Or a talent that makes Flamestrike deal additional damage to targets already afflicted by Living Bomb, which makes his gameplay more complex than just "land DQ, stun sometimes". | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On August 11 2015 04:59 xDaunt wrote: We'll have to wait to see the patch notes, but supposedly they're doing a major rework. The problems with Kael right now are 1) he only has one good build, and 2) the power curve of that build is completely retarded in that Kael is a pretty bad hero until he hits 16, at which point he becomes a monster. According to Grubby, the changes to Kael will open up additional builds and fix his scaling issues. We'll just have to wait and see how effective he ultimately is. I saw a post on reddit that compared Ignite damage to Shock and Awe... and KT won that comparison. It's absolutely absurd as both a power spike and as general damage capability. KT will still be viable after this, just like he was still viable after the Chain Bomb / Ignite nerf. A ranged Assassin with hard-CC is still something unique in the game (minus Raynor's talented-Q). | ||
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